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Moore On Wealthy People's Money: "That's Not Theirs, That's A National Resource, It's Ours"

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posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by Dwigt
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


In the real world, where we grown ups live, all business is not conducted by Wall Street banks. Maybe news travels a bit slower up there, so I guess I can understand your lack of knowledge on how things really work.

Look, I think there are greedy pukes out there that stole money from the American public, which includes me, but that does not mean that every business is corrupt and out to screw the little guy. You need to distinguish your hatred of what happened in '08 with the real world most of us live in.


Well name one business and we all of us can do independant research and prove you wrong.
I'd lay money on that!




posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by ldyserenity
 

Are you serious? Do you really believe that? Where do some of you work? Wait, maybe I am talking to the young socialist trying to unionize the Noodles and Co.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by Dwigt
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


In the real world, where we grown ups live, all business is not conducted by Wall Street banks. Maybe news travels a bit slower up there, so I guess I can understand your lack of knowledge on how things really work.

Look, I think there are greedy pukes out there that stole money from the American public, which includes me, but that does not mean that every business is corrupt and out to screw the little guy. You need to distinguish your hatred of what happened in '08 with the real world most of us live in.

Hey, I'm talking about the advantage to your national economy that would occur if the wealthy...say those who earn over a million a year...would pay tax levels equivalent to those set by your great Conservative poobah Ronald Reagan. Maybe toss in some inheritance tax of some small significance. Would the fat cats even notice?
I'd doubt it.

And you don't need to lecture me on 'the real world'. In this real world, my cancer was cured for $32 out of pocket, I still have my house, and the banking shenanigans that screwed your country over would send people to jail. See...news does travel up here and I've got a pretty good idea of how things work. More to the point, I've got a pretty good idea of how things can work.
edit on 3-3-2011 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by maybereal11

Originally posted by 46ACE
"Johnny canuck":How does Steve Jobs of Apple (a classic success story for one example ) come from a garage based shop to deprive the"lower class of a quality life"? Infact I'd submit: This wealthy man has done more to improve the quality of life of far more people than go see the "pillsbury douchebags" 'socialist commentary movies.

edit on 3-3-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)


Steve Jobs is worth 6.1 Billion...If he decided to buy as many MILLION dollar Homes as he could, he would own over 6000 Million dollar estates and not owe a mortgage.

I don't think he will feel the pain if his marginal tax rate inches up by a measly 2%...


There is class warfare alright.
But it is MY class - the rich class - that is making war, and were winning!
I am a conscientous objector

- Warren Buffet

Only 375,000 Americans have incomes of over $1,000,000

Between 1979 and 2007, incomes for the wealthiest 1% of Americans rose by 281%

During the Great Depression, millionaires had a top marginal tax rate of 68%

In 1963, millionaires had a top marginal tax rate of 91%

In 1976, millionaires had a top marginal tax rate of 70%

Today, millionaires have a top marginal tax rate of 35%

44% of Congress people are millionaires

www.fiscalstrength.com...

Also see here...
Billionaires voice support for higher taxes on the wealthy
thehill.com...

Now can anyone tell me where that Bailout money went that was supposed to be spent by banks in the form of business loans and lowered credit card rates etc to spur spending and hiring? That was our money....Money we can ill afford.

Urged to Lend, Banks Sit on Bailout Cash
dealbook.nytimes.com...


edit on 3-3-2011 by maybereal11 because: (no reason given)

Nice statistics...BUT
You missed my point entirely maybereal11! "Cannuck" and the rest are claiming:" the wealthy somehow ERODE the quality of life of the lower "classes"". as if they snuck in at night and stole their meager savings from their unguarded piggy banks.He is/they are trying to create a moral rationalization to confiscate their fortunes.:

"It IS NOT stealing because you uhmmm: Owe "us"! Don't you?

Could Jobs spare an additional2% in taxes as you(maybereal11 ) suggest? Of course he could but that doesn't rationalize just taking a large chunk his fortune just because he has it! Finding a moral rationalizaton to "redistribute" the fortunes is what this whole argument is about..

If a "lower class" ATS member inventor comes up with the next"face book" idea
or mypersonal favorites a "perpetual motion machine creating free energy from the ether" by crossing a tesla coil and a duck. Capital( profits will flow his way; soon the inventor may be hiring Steve Jobs to wash his growing Bentley collection.

It doesn't "erode the quality of life of the rest" of the"lower class community the invento r was previously associated with. in fact the inventor may have warm feelings for his old neighbors in the "broken beer bottle"trailer court ,and build his business nearby hiring; paying improved wages and benefits to the trailer park community.left "behind"
Who wil in turn pay more taxes for government flunkies to pass out to get re-relected.
Y'all are just poundingdry salt to justify why its unfair "Roger moneybags"has more cash than "they: do.

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edit on 3-3-2011 by 46ACE because: spelling errors....

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posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by 46ACE
Could Jobs spare an additional2% in taxes as you(maybereal11 ) suggest? Of course he could but that doesn't rationalize just taking a large chunk his fortune just because he has it! Finding a moral rationalizaton to "redistribute" the fortunes is what this whole argument is about..

2%? Large chunk?
Taxes are the price you pay for civilisation...and if folks can't afford Job's product, then it doesn't matter what he manufactures. As you seem to have discovered down there, when there's no work, and the credit runs out, things can get a little punky.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by 46ACE
 


You are essentially correct, however, if a person say "invents" a sub prime mortgage, sells that in a predatory way to people he KNOWS cannot afford it, over-inflates the actual value of those investments, then, bundles those mortgages and re sells them to other banks, thereby hinging the entire economy on bad investments, BETS against those assets he knows are going to fail. Then when the whole thing comes crashing down, reaps not only the rewards off of his bets that those investments would fail but brings the entire economy crashing down with it. One could say that they did something wrong and probably do owe "us".



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by 46ACE
Could Jobs spare an additional2% in taxes as you(maybereal11 ) suggest? Of course he could but that doesn't rationalize just taking a large chunk his fortune just because he has it! Finding a moral rationalizaton to "redistribute" the fortunes is what this whole argument is about..

2%? Large chunk?
Taxes are the price you pay for civilisation...and if folks can't afford Job's product, then it doesn't matter what he manufactures. As you seem to have discovered down there, when there's no work, and the credit runs out, things can get a little punky.


You're not addressing my point eh"
you are desperately searching for amoral rationalization: they OWE ""us"
and its not there; is it.
because anybody could conceivably do what he did without negatively affecting his peers...



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 

Yeah, and my wife's aneurysm has been treated for nothing out of pocket, what is your point? You may be right, taxing someone who takes in over a million a year by 2% is probably not that big of a deal. But, that is also not going to solve the problems we face. It is also not the level most people view as wealthy, it is much lower where that amount does have negative affects. I just don't see how giving more money to the government is gonna help us. Did you even see the report out yesterday about government waste? You want to give them more money? People need to help out their fellow neighbor in need much more than they do now, but it should be done on that level. Most people who want socialism in this country are just looking for a handout because they want what they don't have. The real needy of the country usually are the hard working that may have hit hard times and usually don't complain.

I have been on both sides.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by Dwigt
 


So, in other words, you can't name one? Ok...thanks for driving my point right to home plate.
There it is folks...he can't name one business. Just one and it has to be a well known one. Something we can all research, but instead he makes condesending remarks and labels people. Do you know why? Because he knows he is so full of the steamy pile of brown stuff that his eyes are brown. LOL!



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by 46ACE
 


You are essentially correct, however, if a person say "invents" a sub prime mortgage, sells that in a predatory way to people he KNOWS cannot afford it, over-inflates the actual value of those investments, then, bundles those mortgages and re sells them to other banks, thereby hinging the entire economy on bad investments, BETS against those assets he knows are going to fail. Then when the whole thing comes crashing down, reaps not only the rewards off of his bets that those investments would fail but brings the entire economy crashing down with it. One could say that they did something wrong and probably do owe "us".


WUK I do Agree wholeheartedly for the "financial debacle"
I stated threateningly some where else today we haven't seen any Goldman people in jail yet for doing exactly what you said( they should be strungup with strong hemp rope but not before making restitution ).The Bastidges need to go to ( federal " pound me in the A**") Jail and be striped of ill gotten fraudulent gains..

Clearly in my mind anyway there is a difference between theft by fraud and doing honest business through hardwork..
BUT not all "wealthy" got their money fraudulently , even inheritances are legal.
edit on 3-3-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by Dwigt
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 

Yeah, and my wife's aneurysm has been treated for nothing out of pocket, what is your point?

My point is that your country is going down the economic crapper and I am startled by the way y'all blame everybody but the ones responsible. And if Moore lies, create an industry based upon suing him and give the economy a bump that way. You complain about government waste, yet the GOP votes not to finance Elizabeth Warren...who is there to find and cut that waste. Man, it's your morass...time to pay back, I'd say.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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I don't get half the comments against Moore...

The man's all about helping those who are less fortunate and not having the wealthy pretty much break the law and break the backs of millions of Americans to become insanely rich.

And Moore himself also goes out of his way to not be that way. For example, he's stated that he has no problem with people uploading his documentaries onto Youtube and other websites to share for free.

The man's about helping those who are suffering...



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by Mak Manto
I don't get half the comments against Moore...

The man's all about helping those who are less fortunate and not having the wealthy pretty much break the law and break the backs of millions of Americans to become insanely rich.

And Moore himself also goes out of his way to not be that way. For example, he's stated that he has no problem with people uploading his documentaries onto Youtube and other websites to share for free.

The man's about helping those who are suffering...

The man is as much an "entertainer" ( albeit witha left biased hate America p.o.v.) as the much despised Glenn Beck;
his documentary scenes are written for effect like any gotcha' piece
and I enjoyed "roger and me...: thought Ii was kinda silly but I did see it.

ABCnews John stossel v moore on "sicko" ( cuban healthcare b.s,)more "moore fantasies" to come.once I clean the stcky dr.pepper out of my keyboard...


edit on 3-3-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-3-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by maybereal11
 





I know you wrote those words, but I am still scratching my . trying to think of why you did. I agree that most of the "rich" are not literally bankers or wall street brokers, but they definetly had large interests in those sectors being bailed out to secure investments that otherwise would have been worthless.


Not every rich person were beneficiaries of the bailouts in the manner in which you assert. There are millions of rich people in the US and not all of them have investments in Wall St.

As a matter of fact 401k, RIA, CDs, and other investment instruments are largely held by people who are NOT rich in any sense of the word. They make up at LEAST 30% of the financial markets. It would help to understand how the financial market works, who the players are, how the volumes work before making these kinds of fallacious assertions.



...I know it is fashionable these days to pretend you never supported them, but in the age of television it's hard to re-write history Here is the most recent I could google up in a few seconds..


I NEVER supported the bailouts, or the stimulus. And I'm not rich. most of the phone calls that went into the Congressional switchboard were OVERWHELMINGLY against the bailouts.
CSMonitor

Kovacevich joins the swelling ranks of a grass-roots movement aimed at convincing Congress to turn down the Bush administration's plan. The movement crosses party lines. It draws support not only from angry taxpayers but also some economists. And it is beginning to make itself heard in the halls of Congress. "If it looks like they bail out Wall Street, there's going to be a lot of anger," said a Democratic party staffer in Michigan, who declined to be identified. Michigan is a key swing state in the presidential election. Not surprisingly, the movement has found a ready audience online. "A bailout requires responsible Americans to pay for the acts of greedy bankers, mortgage brokers, flippers, and over-extended home-borrowers," intones StopTheHousingBailout.com.


There was BROAD opposition to the bailouts across party lines and economic levels.

According to Gallop, at the time, 6 out of ten Americans were against the bailouts without any oversight. The REAL outrage came when congress passed the bailouts without any supervisory provisions.

People who make 75,000 a year are NOT rich. 75,000 to about 500,000 a year are roughly still middle to upper middle class. If you include small business owners. But I still wouldn't consider anyone making more than that to be RICH. well off? Sure, Rich? no. But nice attempt at fostering more of that class warfare.



Yes as a "Moderator" you are permitted to post as an individual contributor without being required to behave as a mod. It's Johnny's fault for expecting more, a mistake I myself have made on occasion. I think in part it is due to the excellent example the vast majority of Mods on ATS set. That said IMO your posts are often beligerant and antogonistic and it erodes civil debate amongst the threads. That is directed at you as a poster, not a "Mod".



I resigned so that no one has an excuse to whine about my opinions anymore. BUT I AM STILL NOT PART OF SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD.
edit on 3-3-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:32 PM
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this made my day, thanks



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by Mak Manto
I don't get half the comments against Moore...

The man's all about helping those who are less fortunate and not having the wealthy pretty much break the law and break the backs of millions of Americans to become insanely rich.

And Moore himself also goes out of his way to not be that way. For example, he's stated that he has no problem with people uploading his documentaries onto Youtube and other websites to share for free.

The man's about helping those who are suffering...


Umm.. have you recently fallen down and bumped your .


Listen here, I am old enough to remember when he actually made a decent documentaries. That time has been long gone.

Or my other response is...



ahh to be young again.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by Asktheanimals
The rich (regardless of how they got their money) have benefited in a general way from society.

And they pay large sums of money for those benefits.

They use the road system to move goods to and from their business.

And when they do, they are employing people to move the freight. And they are paying taxes to the entities who construct and maintain those roads, directly or indirectly, just like everyone else who uses those roads.

They use the water system paid for by the taxpayer.

And they are taxpayers as well and pay their water bills, just like everyone else who uses the water.

They hire people educated through public schools and colleges.

And they pay school taxes on their personal properties as well as their business properties. Included in their business property taxes are annual taxes on each and every desk, chair, workbench, tool, vehicle, etc. used in their business. (At least in Texas)

In short, those who have become rich in America have benefited from the public at large.

And, in the vast majority of cases, Americans have benefited from the "rich", in the forms of wages and benefits, investments in things such as hospitals, purchases of local government bonds for building and improving utilities and schools, etc., etc., etc.


American industry was once protected through tariffs and other trade barriers that were destroyed with the "Free trade" agreements with the WTO, NAFTA and GATT. Left at the mercy of a strong dollar and weak foreign currencies our industries could not compete and were moved offshore, as indeed much of our operating reserves of currency have as well.

I agree. But, are you blaming the "rich" for creating these obstacles to industry and forced themselves to move jobs out of the country?


IMO those who have become rich owe a fair share of what they have made back to their country and communities which should be considerably higher than the nominal tax rates they are currently paying.

Have you, honestly, taken into consideration all of the taxes the "rich" pay or just federal income taxes, which the media represents as being the only taxes the "rich" pay?

The Kohler Company has a plant in my county. Besides employing a large number of people, in 2010 they paid nearly $800,000 in local property taxes alone. The largest portion of that, $570,000, was paid to the school district. And they do this every year.


So if Adam Corolla wants to cry because he only made $1.5 mil instead of $2 mil someone should remind him that he is making his money from being on the Public airways.


Though I can only react to what the member posted as Corolla's statements, it didn't appear he was complaining about paying a half million dollars in taxes. To me, it was an indictment against those who never push, but whine the loudest.

With that said, I in now fashion intend to defend those who prey on others for financial gain. I'm just saying, it is unfair to lump all of the "rich" into the "evil" category.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


Moore is an idiot, no one takes him seriously anymore.

Moore: "First of all, were not broke. There's a ton of cash in this country....but it's a finite amount.What has happened is, we've allowed a vast majority of that cash to be concentrated in the hands of just a few people"

Oh you mean like yourself Mr.Moore?

Moore: "There is only so much cash. There is a finite amount"

Umm until the Fed prints more cash? Durrrrr

Moore:"They're not circulating the cash, they're using for it their own stuff, they're putting it someplace else."

Hmm you mean like in a bank? Where the bank uses that money to give loans to people who buy homes, and start business, and go to college?" Hmmm i dunno bout' that one michael...
And they're buying stuff with it? Like yachts, and jetskis and private islands? Hmmm me thinks that is putting money in circulation.


"They have no interest in helping you, and your life, with that money"

Oh and you do? Then give me some of your damn money.

"We've allowed them to take that. That's not theirs. That's a national resource".

Um WHAT....so if someone works their ass off to get rich it becomes the nations money? Durrr..

There's no way he ACTUALLY believes this crap.



He reminds me of jabba the hutt. "CHOO CHOO BUN MOK MA SKYWALKER. FOOOOOOD. Huh Huh Huh Huh!"

edit on 3-3-2011 by freedish because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by Justaposter

Originally posted by Mak Manto
I don't get half the comments against Moore...

The man's all about helping those who are less fortunate and not having the wealthy pretty much break the law and break the backs of millions of Americans to become insanely rich.

And Moore himself also goes out of his way to not be that way. For example, he's stated that he has no problem with people uploading his documentaries onto Youtube and other websites to share for free.

The man's about helping those who are suffering...


Umm.. have you recently fallen down and bumped your .


Listen here, I am old enough to remember when he actually made a decent documentaries. That time has been long gone.

Or my other response is...



ahh to be young again.

Old enough...?

His first documentary was in 1997... It's not that long ago. And I didn't say anything about making a good or bad documentary, just that he makes them and that he allows people to put them up for free.

I don't get what people have against him. He has no problem with people wanting to go out and start a business and make money. He has a problem when corporations and certain people lying, cheating and stealing to become wealthy.

That's not a Marxist philosophy...



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by Mak Manto


I don't get what people have against him. He has no problem with people wanting to go out and start a business and make money. He has a problem when corporations and certain people lying, cheating and stealing to become wealthy.

That's not a Marxist philosophy...


You aint gunna fix that problem by taxing the rich. people are always gonna lie, cheat, and steal.

And who says all the wealthy people had to lie, cheat, and steal to become wealthy?

Ever heard the saying strengthen those who strengthen you?



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