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Moore On Wealthy People's Money: "That's Not Theirs, That's A National Resource, It's Ours"

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posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


Jail time doesn't really work for these guys as they end up in swanky resort type prisons. What actually hurts these guys is when you drain every dime from their greedy thieving pockets.

Frankly I am tired of corporations not hiring in this country for whatever weak excuse they come up with this week. First it was they were afraid of the tax situation, so, the government gave in and extended the Bush tax cuts they wanted, and they didn't start hiring, then it's the Heath Care Law, that doesn't even effect them for years, still, no jobs, NOW, its because of oil prices.

Cmon people, corporations aren't our friends, they are milking this country for what it's worth and dumping on the masses. It's obvious they aren't going to be hiring because they figured out that they can make MASSIVE profits while working their employees to the bone and not expanding their business. It's time to close all the tax loopholes, shut off all the subsidies, and put back the corporate tax rate to where it was during the Clinton Administration.




posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


A company does not have a duty to hire anyone.

People don't start businesses to provide jobs they start businesses to reap the benefits of profit.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 3-3-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 09:27 AM
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I disagree with Michael Moore here with one exception.

IMO there are two sides to the story.

There are wealthy people who have complete rights to their wealth, whether they worked are for it, inherited it, or are earning it passively. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs etc..

And there are those like the wall street bankers who have defrauded the middle class and the poor on their way to wealth.

Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?

These last ones, those who have greatly increased their wealth by committing fraud are the ones that should give back their wealth (which is obviously stolen). The former should have the right to keep most (if not all) of their money and do as they please with it IMO.

Then you have the poor, which according to Doug Casey (barring any exceptions) are only poor because of their habits (and mindsets).


That’s because in most cases, poverty is not a function of bad luck.

It can be, sometimes, of course. Perhaps if you’re born in a country with a brutal and repressive regime, or if you’re born with mental handicaps – there are all kinds of things that can happen. But generally, with a few such exceptions, poverty is simply a sign of bad habits. In a relatively free country, it’s a sign of an inability or unwillingness to save, which is to say, to produce more than you consume. It’s a sign of a lack of self-discipline. Sloth that afflicts those not willing to learn skills they can sell to other people. It can be a sign of having no self-respect, as among those who spend all their money on drugs and alcohol, which are debilitating, rather than strengthening.

In the vast majority of cases, those who suffer from poverty are not victims of anything other than their own bad habits.


Here's another great blog on why the poor should quit the victim mentality, stop blaming others for their woes, and start taking complete responsibility for their lives as they are.

The Big (“Poor Me”) Gamble


I’ll salute anyone reading this who is willing to buck up and take a level of ownership for their own results and experiences in life… for understanding that, regardless of what has happened to you in the past (even beyond your direct control), it’s still up to YOU, no one else, to get it right in the present and future.

And, I’ll call you out on anything that reeks of victimitis and thin-skinned beliefs toward what and who you think you should listen to.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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I heard Adam Carolla (the comedian) on the radio yesterday giving his bit on taxes. I'll give you the meat of his POV, it really was hilarious the way he phrased it.

(He leads in by telling everyone that he made just over 2 million in 2004. As a single no-dependents guy at the time, he paid ~500,000 dollars in taxes that year, but noted that he had zero drain on any government program.)

The Govt. is essentially a broken down car. Paying taxes is like everyone pushing that one broken down car...Some people push, some people sit inside and steer. Since not everyone pushes, those who do have to push for 15 people.
When people bitch about rich people "paying their fair share" it is like sitting around the campfire after a day of pushing and some SOB (who sat up front all day) points a spoon at you and says "Why aren't you pushing harder?!"
"I'm already pushing as much as 15 of you all!"
"So? You need to push harder! You need to push as much as 25 of us!"
Corolla goes on: The thing is I don't even USE the car! I've never been to a library in my life, I'm not on probation, in the court system, no kids in school, no welfare (etc.etc), yet I'm paying more taxes in one year than 25 schoolteachers do in 10 years!
And still these jackasses demand that I carry more of their weight.
Maybe we need to be asking them about "Paying your fair share"?!


edit on 3-3-2011 by blamethegreys because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:15 AM
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I'm sorry, but I'm with Moore on this one. There are the rare exceptions of ultra wealthy people who became that way in an ethical way but, for the most part, you have people rolling in the fed as a result of tax evasion, exploitation, and hurting fellow Americans (insurance, finance, etc).

I'm no Marxist but I also believe the corporate capitalism this nation has turned into is even worse than any communist agenda you could present to me. Capitalism is a game. But, like in Monopoly, eventually one person has every single property with hotels on everything and the other 5 players subsist on the luck of the dice, trying not to land on anything... all the while hoping they get thrown in jail to at least avoid paying that one guy any more of their hard-earned money. Sometimes we need to reset the board. Or just alter the rules.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by blamethegreys
 


Wow, I knew there was something I didn't like about that guy. His analogy of pushing a car would be accurate if he was among ants and the ants wanted him to push harder than they. You push a car with strength and you pay taxes with money. Money = Strength. His horrible analogy conveniently left out that he's 1,000 times stronger than all those people in the car. What a greedy little man.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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One day, when I am rich and wealthy, and someone comes to me and wants MY money, I will politely tell them to kiss my butt.
In the mean time, Moore could go pound sand. He's a loser who is irrelevent, and no one should take that greedy bastish seriously.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


A married couple making $34,000 a year with a child gets a standard tax deduction of $11,000. That means they are basically promised a tax return. I know people making less than $40,000 a year that get a $5,000 tax return. They only pay in about $3,000 to start with. That means the government is giving them a 60%+ return on their taxes paid in.

To make it more plain, low income families usually have a negative net effect on tax revenue in America. Those are families that don't even qualify for "assistance." If you start looking at the families that qualify for food stamps and child care subsidies that negative net effect increases dramatically.

I'm not talking about getting rid of social programs. I am just saying, lets be honest.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by Cuervo
I'm sorry, but I'm with Moore on this one. There are the rare exceptions of ultra wealthy people who became that way in an ethical way but, for the most part, you have people rolling in the fed as a result of tax evasion, exploitation, and hurting fellow Americans (insurance, finance, etc).

I'm no Marxist but I also believe the corporate capitalism this nation has turned into is even worse than any communist agenda you could present to me. Capitalism is a game. But, like in Monopoly, eventually one person has every single property with hotels on everything and the other 5 players subsist on the luck of the dice, trying not to land on anything... all the while hoping they get thrown in jail to at least avoid paying that one guy any more of their hard-earned money. Sometimes we need to reset the board. Or just alter the rules.


Ok, Moore first, you second.
Still a load of crap.
This is basic envy at its worst. They have too much, I don't have enough. Funny how the problem stated is solved by taking from others

If you are talking about people becoming rich through the Govt, then yes there is a major problem.
If you are talking about people becoming rich through business or inheriting wealth, then that is envy.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by blamethegreys
I
Maybe we need to be asking them about "Paying your fair share"?!


I think that is the bottom line here, all politics and personal vitriol aside.
What is your fair share?
The rich (regardless of how they got their money) have benefited in a general way from society.
They use the road system to move goods to and from their business. They use the water system paid for by the taxpayer. They hire people educated through public schools and colleges. They use what used to be called "the commons" before privatization came and turned every publicly held asset into a commodity for sale. In short, those who have become rich in America have benefited from the public at large.
Moore is correct when he says that those with very large amounts of money are not injecting that money back into the economy. The banks are not making loans and there is no new industries being created here at home, though a great deal of that wealth is going into job creation overseas.
American industry was once protected through tariffs and other trade barriers that were destroyed with the "Free trade" agreements with the WTO, NAFTA and GATT. Left at the mercy of a strong dollar and weak foreign currencies our industries could not compete and were moved offshore, as indeed much of our operating reserves of currency have as well.
Now we are faced with the nightmare of supply side economics and a weakening dollar where there is less of everything and it is more expensive. Go check your grocery prices if you don't believe me.
IMO those who have become rich owe a fair share of what they have made back to their country and communities which should be considerably higher than the nominal tax rates they are currently paying.
So if Adam Corolla wants to cry because he only made $1.5 mil instead of $2 mil someone should remind him that he is making his money from being on the Public airways.
If you can't pay the tolls stay off the highway.
The moanings of the rich are more than I can stomach



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Cuervo
I'm sorry, but I'm with Moore on this one. There are the rare exceptions of ultra wealthy people who became that way in an ethical way but, for the most part, you have people rolling in the fed as a result of tax evasion, exploitation, and hurting fellow Americans (insurance, finance, etc).

I'm no Marxist but I also believe the corporate capitalism this nation has turned into is even worse than any communist agenda you could present to me. Capitalism is a game. But, like in Monopoly, eventually one person has every single property with hotels on everything and the other 5 players subsist on the luck of the dice, trying not to land on anything... all the while hoping they get thrown in jail to at least avoid paying that one guy any more of their hard-earned money. Sometimes we need to reset the board. Or just alter the rules.


Ok, Moore first, you second.
Still a load of crap.
This is basic envy at its worst. They have too much, I don't have enough. Funny how the problem stated is solved by taking from others

If you are talking about people becoming rich through the Govt, then yes there is a major problem.
If you are talking about people becoming rich through business or inheriting wealth, then that is envy.


No, dude. Like I said, it's situational. That clip with Moore was rather out of context (intentional or not); his views on that go deeper than "rich people = bad / poor people = good / eat, kill, destroy. He's talking about the obvious ones who gained their wealth by screwing you, me, him, and every other American by twisting capitalism into something that only benefits corporations. He's not against wealthy people just because they are wealthy; he's wealthy and doesn't hide it.

I earned all of my money and I still feel the need to give to others. I know I earned what I have but I would be an arrogant and prideful man to not realize I gained it because I am very fortunate and was presented opportunities not everybody has. Therefore, I give much away. My personal spiritual guidelines (call it religion if you like) prevent me from detailing how much and to whom but I can say that, at times, it trumped my tax outflow. I simply don't need it all. That's the funny thing about money... you always have more than you need but you never has as much as you want.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:43 AM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


Adam Corolla is forgetting that he's been riding in that car too.
If you can afford to buy a Hollywood mansion and drive a Porsche you're not one of those "pushing".
He's just whining because he doesn't have a front seat..



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


See but you missed the point, these companies were telling us that the reason they weren't hiring was this excuse or that excuse, basically holding the carrot of jobs out in front of us for government to do what they want, and when government does what they want they jerk the carrot away.

I am not asking for what Michael Moore is asking, a 90% tax rate on corporations, I am just saying that because they didn't do what they promised we take away what they wanted. It seems fair to me, they wanted the top tax earners to keep the Bush tax rates offering the carrot of jobs, and when they got those tax rates, they blew off their end of the deal.

Frankly those tax breaks aren't paid for by reduced spending, the fiscally conservative thing to do is to repeal those Bush Tax cuts for the top 2%. They haven't produced the jobs that were promised, they are just adding to the debt, so why keep them?

We also need to close tax loopholes that allow companies to skirt tax laws adding to the deficit, and we need to stop shelling out subsidies to companies earning massive profits like oil companies. Why on earth should we pay both ends to oil companies? We already pay through the nose for their products, why should we also subsidize them as well?



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


It is good that you feel that you should give to others, but you and I are still compelled by force (Via Taxes) to give to those that don't have. It's theft anyway you put it.

Twisting capitalism is not the problem. Capitalism is not living, it makes no choices.
The person that broke the law is at fault.
Just because they found a loophole does not make it just to take from them. 2 wrongs don't make a right.
If they broke a law, prosecute them. If they did not, then they are free to go. Pretty simple.
Moore makes his money by crying foul on the same system he profits from. That's pretty simple as well.

Again, it comes down to envy and making those that don't have envious of those that do.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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Michael Moore went to a bank that was offering a free rifle if you open an account with them. Moore went there and opened an account and got his free rifle. He whined and cried about it and said he was going to melt the rifle down.

To this date Michael Moore has not released a video nor photo of him melting down his free rifle.

Hypocrite. He's just a whiner making money.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 11:05 AM
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The problem with all of you is you all think you work harder than anybody else so you deserve more, more, more. Which in fact is not the case. You think you worked harder than Micheal Moore you busted your butt going out doing all the research the footwork the editing, directing, marketing, etc etc? You think you work harder than the feild workers who pick your vegetables that can't even buy those products except for the government help they get? You think you work harder than the person who built your mcmansion, that can't even afford a regular modest home and still feed his family? You think you work harder than the maid that cleans your toilets and folds your clothes, but can't even have a toilet of their own save for government subsidies? Well I got news for you, YOU DON'T. You all are a very sorry bunch but you will all be on the same boat as all those people I previously mentioned, then you will all cry "Waaaaaaaaaahhhhhh, I want what I am entitled to!" BOO HOO!!!!

You just watch keep running your mouths Karma is going to bite you all in the booty. And don't ask for my help, because I will throw your own words back at you!



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by ldyserenity
The problem with all of you is you all think you work harder than anybody else so you deserve more, more, more. Which in fact is not the case. You think you worked harder than Micheal Moore you busted your butt going out doing all the research the footwork the editing, directing, marketing, etc etc? You think you work harder than the feild workers who pick your vegetables that can't even buy those products except for the government help they get? You think you work harder than the person who built your mcmansion, that can't even afford a regular modest home and still feed his family? You think you work harder than the maid that cleans your toilets and folds your clothes, but can't even have a toilet of their own save for government subsidies? Well I got news for you, YOU DON'T. You all are a very sorry bunch but you will all be on the same boat as all those people I previously mentioned, then you will all cry "Waaaaaaaaaahhhhhh, I want what I am entitled to!" BOO HOO!!!!

You just watch keep running your mouths Karma is going to bite you all in the booty. And don't ask for my help, because I will throw your own words back at you!


So, sadly, you think the way to fix all that is for someone to play "Robin Hood" and just take from the people you think have it too good.

Also, sadly, you neglected to include in your rant the (millions of?) people who are basically freeloading the system and wanting nothing more than to live off of government handouts. Problem is the government gets its money from us ...



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
Also, sadly, you neglected to include in your rant the (millions of?) people who are basically freeloading the system and wanting nothing more than to live off of government handouts. Problem is the government gets its money from us ...

Well, luckily for them, so do the corporations. And what is the present disparity between executive compensation and the guy on the shop floor as opposed to 10 years ago? But, hey...if you figure they've earned it, it's your dough.

Incidentally, how those foreclosures going down there? Any of that ol' 'trickle down economics' to the rescue yet? All those jobs that your tax breaks are creating putting your neighbour back to work?

Will there be fries with that?



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 01:21 PM
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From the OP's source:

"They need to -- we need to see these jobs as something we some, that we collectively own as Americans and you can't just steal our jobs and take them someplace else," Moore concluded.

...and Moore was caught on video leading a protest later that day...



Sorry, but Moore is a lying sack of feces. His "documentaries" are anything but. If you've ever watched any of the rebuttal films, they point out - very persuasively - that Moore is an expert at outright lies, general disinfo, creative editing, and promoting himself as a defender of the common man when he is anything but.

OK, I'll give you a "for instance," from a Wikileak's leaked cable concerning Moore's film "Sicko:"


...the memo reveals that when the film was shown to a group of Cuban doctors, some became so "disturbed at the blatant misrepresentation of healthcare in Cuba that they left the room". Castro's government apparently went on to ban the film because, the leaked cable claims, it "knows the film is a myth and does not want to risk a popular backlash by showing to Cubans facilities that are clearly not available to the vast majority of them."


So much for that movie.

Shall we move on to Moore's fim "Fahrenheit 911?" Watch this and educate yourself.



Did you know that "Bowling for Columbine" was riddled with lies? SOURCE

In fact, look through the whole site, as they do a much better job of bringing this clown down to Chinatown than I could. Moore is a lying pig; no less, no more.

Drink Moore's Kool-Aid all you like, but know beforehand that it is flavored with LIES.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


I would not pose that as a solution, what I'd like to do I can't say here. That goes for the loads of sacks who mooch off the system too, I know some of those and they are on the same side of the same coin, they suck the life out of civilization too.
No my idea isn't to redistribute, what I pose as a solution, well let's put it this way... giant hurling asteriod...enough said!



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