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EXCLUSIVE "What in The World Are They Spraying" Chemist talks to ATS about Geoengineering.

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posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 06:40 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5


If he cannot answer the hard questions, or questions about his background, then that is really telling IMHO.


Ahem!!!!

Could we get the same tough questions, along with verifiable proof from your so called experts here at ATS??

Can we get proof that your experts aren't just very good at research, looking up info, posting it, and claiming it's from THEIR own experiences???

I believe you can verify WHO the Dr. says he is.

It's almost as if you are afraid to even hear from the good Dr., if not, then why wouldn't you welcome him here...........then, your so called experts can rip him apart, pure satisfaction for you????

So, instead of trying to discredit him before he arrives, let him speak, and then "GAME ON".

Thank You
Parker




posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5




If your trying to tell me to be open minded because maybe I'll change my mind, then the answer is no. Not anymore then I could convince you that your given name is not really your given name. Nothing is going to change your mind about something that you know for an absolute fact.



Given fact..................The World is flat.................The Sun revolves around the Earth...........ring any bells??

" A wise man always learns from a fool, but, a fool never learns from a wise man."

Again, you should welcome the good Dr.............it's going to be such a slam dunk for you and your experts...........so, just relax, breath deeply, and smile, you've got us right where you want us!!

Parker



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 06:56 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:06 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:07 AM
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OK people.

Chill.

If I can arrange this for the show, I will do. I'm working on it now. Right now there are ifs and buts and maybes, and nothing else.

If we do bring this to the show we will hear both sides of the argument - not just one - in an open forum with member call ins. The questions asked will be relevant to both sides of the subject.

The credentials of the invited guests (not individual private callers) will be checked beforehand as well by the radio crew. If they can't be verified we won't run it on the show. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, I think you'll all agree?



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:15 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 


If we do bring this to the show we will hear both sides of the argument - not just one - in an open forum with member call ins. The questions asked will be relevant to both sides of the subject.


RIGHT SURE !
Thats why your colleagues attack and silence me yeah ? TO GIVE BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT???

Hypocrisy agenda driven propaganda .

Ban me silence me kill me there will be thousands to take my place if im gone .

CHEMTRAILS are not fake just because 2 of you say so . This is a forum for discussion NOT a dictatorship .

FREEDOM OF SPEECH .
FREEDOM TO NOT BE ATTACKED FOR MY BELEIFS !



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:25 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Originally posted by ParkerCramer
Could we get the same tough questions, along with verifiable proof from your so called experts here at ATS??

As stated many have given it over the years. However, most members do not come in making fantastical claims nor claiming to be experts. There is a big difference between someone coming in claiming to be a expert, bringing controversial information along with them, and someone who is a member but later exerts their professional experience in relating why something is true or false, and backs it up with factual proof. Many others such as Chad or Phage, to my knowledge, have never spoken of their professional fields, yet they still bring rock solid, scientifically provable facts and information to the table in their posts.


Originally posted by ParkerCramer
Can we get proof that your experts aren't just very good at research, looking up info, posting it, and claiming it's from THEIR own experiences???

Some have posted their credentials on here in the past, some have submitted them to the Admin. I do not have a list of who has or has not submitted info to the admin, the admin has that info.


Originally posted by ParkerCramer
I believe you can verify WHO the Dr. says he is.

Only if he submits it to the Admin, otherwise he could be anyone.


Originally posted by ParkerCramer
It's almost as if you are afraid to even hear from the good Dr., if not, then why wouldn't you welcome him here...........then, your so called experts can rip him apart, pure satisfaction for you????

You need to go back and re-read the thread, I simply asked him several very valid questions, the rest of these posts have been between myself and other members. Mostly due to my being a mod, and somehow that’s supposed to equate to my forgetting all the facts I know, and never having a differing opinion then an OP.

Of course he is always welcome here as a member, I have no issue with the gentleman personally; however, chemtrails are a sore spot for me, and anyone spreading that disinfo/hoax/lies/fearmongering better be able to stand behind their claims.

Lets be honest here...
what is being claimed is about the same as me saying that I came home and found leaves in my pool, but I don’t have any trees in my yard. So I hire a scientist to look at the leaves, he agrees they are leaves and there are no trees in the yard. Therefore, because he noticed a cloud shaped like a tree floating overhead, he declares that they must have been dumped there by airplanes.


Originally posted by ParkerCramer
So, instead of trying to discredit him before he arrives, let him speak, and then "GAME ON".

From my understanding he has already spoken, in several threads.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5
There is no problem if he wants to discuss the chemicals he found on the ground somewhere. There is a problem when he wants to start accusing people of “spraying” them for airliners or military aircraft.

But yet there is NO problem with a moderator from a conspiracy site (key word CONSPIRACY) using his personal views to further his agenda by derailing the thread and attacking it's users? Pot calling the kettle...
You are a moderator of a conspiracy site, people are here to discuss conspiracies and alternative news - not just your own personal views. Other people have their own view points, but you can't seem to handle it.



I was a professional in that field, and I know for an absolute fact that chemtrails are a hoax, so who is the one denying ignorance, and who are the ones speculating on things for which they have zero proof and no expertise


OH really? You "know" for a fact? Okay. SO, since you know chemtrails are an absolute hoax you must have some kind of documentation from some source that proves that this conspiracy theory about chemtrails was started just for "hoax" purposes. Please, by all means - scan this documentation and put it up online so that the people involved in this research can stop doing it. You can not "know" for a "fact" unless you had some type of 'inside' knowledge about chemtrails, of which you deny exist... LOL nice.

"I know for an absolute fact that chemtrails are a hoax" is a very very bold statement and does not hold up in any form of logical context. I could disect it on the basis of logic - but I don't want to bore you... it is basically a false statement because your binary truth values lead to contradiction.

So... when do we start denying ignorance?



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by Doomzilla
 


Doom, relax, chill for a minute. Whatever you say, if it's on topic and within the T&C cannot be silenced. If you get pissed and start venturing outside of that area, you are going to have issues. Nobody here wants to stop this discussion, this stuff is what makes this site what it is.

Everyone who presents verifiable evidence is welcome to show it. They don't have to be vetted in any special field. They just have to present truth. If Phage said something that I thought was a load of crap, I would check it out and if it was not true, I would bring the truth to the discussion, with facts. Nobody should be trusted 100% just as nobody should be disregarded. Just look at this from the outside perspective to see it's not like you think.

I still think chemtrails are not real. I don't think any of the lines people see in the sky are anything more than contrails, but if someone was to bring a verifiable air sample and show me that in fact something other than aircraft exhaust was in it, I would dive into the idea that your side is showing.
edit on 4-3-2011 by network dude because: spelling



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Hi Network
I understand what your saying but remember i didnt start this .

My friend pianopraze invited me to this thread , I saw DR Thyme had Lots of questions to answer so instead of adding to it I decide to say thanks for the creation of this thread instead _

I was attacked for no reason and then censured .

You don't want stress DEFCON? Don't behave like a child then . YOU are supposed to set an example . IM not the mod YOU are

I didnt break the tNc either so ......



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 08:52 AM
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I don't believe the efforts involved here on a wide level of people running ATS (mods) that are actually deleting ON TOPIC posts to this thread.

The topic is chemtrails. Doomzilla sent me what he wrote in the deleted posts through email - and it was ON TOPIC. This is getting a bit strange.

I don't believe in chemtrails, but I see a level of denial that makes me question the motive behind ATS.


Wow.

Let the doctor speak instead of derailing the thread.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Originally posted by kroms33
But yet there is NO problem with a moderator from a conspiracy site (key word CONSPIRACY) using his personal views to further his agenda by derailing the thread and attacking it's users?

I am not discussing personal views, I am discussing facts, and doing otherwise would in actuality be a violation of the terms and conditions:


15). Posting: You will not Post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate. You will not solicit personal information from any member. You will not use information gathered from this website to harass, abuse or harm other people.



Originally posted by kroms33
You are a moderator of a conspiracy site, people are here to discuss conspiracies and alternative.

Just because this is a conspiracy site does not by default mean that all conspiracies are in fact true.


Originally posted by kroms33
OH really? You "know" for a fact? Okay. SO, since you know chemtrails are an absolute hoax you must have some kind of documentation from some source that proves that this conspiracy theory about chemtrails was started just for "hoax" purposes. Please, by all means - scan this documentation and put it up online so that the people involved in this research can stop doing it.

When you’re the person in charge of all the ground handling for an entire airside of an airport, you know everything that goes on your aircraft, and what your ramp is equipped to load onto an aircraft. When you see your commercial aircraft leaving these supposed “chemtrails” yet they contain no chemicals, no spraying equipment, etc… Then what is it other then persistent contrails?

If you’re a commercial pilot, and you are leaving a persistent contrail from your aircraft, or following another commercial airliner which is leaving a persistent contrail, and you know that neither you, nor the other aircraft is spraying anything, then are you still supposed to believe that they are chemicals?

If there are persistent contrails in an area, with no NOTAMS for military operations in that area posted for other pilots to be aware of an aerial hazard, yet there are again civilian commercial airliners in the area, are you still supposed to believe that it’s the military spraying chemicals?

Chemtrails is one of the easiest to disprove conspiracies that has ever come into existence because there is too much transparency between the military and civilian sectors when it comes to aviation.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 3/4/2011 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 09:58 AM
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And now ladies and gentlemen we have a perfectly executed derailed thread! I don't believe we'll be hearing back from the Dr anytime soon so I'm out. Goodluck with the discussion guys and IF that's right IF you get back on topic sometime in the next few weeks send me a u2u so I can come back. As for now I'm going to try to get the last thirty minutes of my life back.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by Angelicdefender2012
 


I asked pianopraze to open a new forum on ORMUS - will definite provide what i know. As to a quick answer - most of the powdered ormus does not seem to be ormus - but how to test is very vague. Ormus formation is done in the absence of EMF field - i am working on an explanation. We tested 21 Ormuses - 17 were bad. Quick and dirty Ormus gold test - dissolve - place in sunlight - look for formation of purple colored hue. This is colloidal gold formed upon decomp of the Ormus. Ormus is extremely light sensitive. More in the new thread later.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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I am currently catching up - read the other thread and now am on page two of this thread. For all the conspiracy jockeys out there - i agree, but like Mel Gibson in his movie - how do we know?

Here are some tidbits - i need to free up the computer soon - but i plan to return and to address most of the real questions - because i want the real answers too.

Phage - I'm with you buddy - good questions - don't worry about the tone. As to the capacitor vs the conduit question, the upper air metal spayed by geo-engineering is a concentrate that will dilute as it falls, depending on the wind conditions and the jet stream. The question is one of continuity and concentration and i believe that if we could do measurements as a function of height off the ground, that would give us the answer.

Fly in the Ointment - good comparison to mercury. The EPA are a bunch of self-serving fools that are set to protect their corporate masters at any costs. In my belief system (which is chemistry based), mercury is not near the problem child that aluminum is - except for the super highly toxic +1 mercury state. Flouride is a huge nasty - extremely toxic and dumped in our water supply continuously. It is a byproduct of .... the aluminum industry. Are we surprised? Flouridated water is insanity.

My opinion - most scientists are really cowed and afraid to bite the hand that feeds them. Publications in science are peer reviewed and the gate-keepers of information want us to believe their fiction. Conformity is a problem - when i speak out, i usually get the cold shoulder - and i have seen things change in the background. I believe there is more to chemistry and physics than they teach us in school - the pat answers are wrong. Look at the water lecture by Gerald Pollack at UW and see if what he says makes more sense than what we were taught.

Zatara - not silly at all. There are too many simple facts that history avoids - like pyramid building.

Network dude - not as easy as you think. They are looking for pilots - but the military and air craft controllers have serious issues with not following flight plans - do you know in advance where they will be spraying? I wonder why no pilot has stepped up - is it an Assange game where the first will get prosecuted (in Sweden). A pilot buddy of mine says no way on chem-trails because the pilots he knows wouldn't do it and they run their own ships.

Spinuis - politics is very different from chemistry, I'll defer on answering about Africa. BTW - the chem trail spraying here has slowed down in the past two weeks.

Everybody: - I am overwhelmed by the volume of material, but intend to make it through and address each point. If we summarize what we know and what we really don't know - maybe we can frame the game and have some new insights. I will repeat - the PTUB (powers that usta be) would be poisoning themselves with bulk spraying based on movie info. That doesn't make sense to me. Monsanto getting patents on aluminum resistant seeds bothers me very much - consider joining millions against monsanto because GE food ifs frankenfood - but that's another topic.

Past nine - must give up the computer to the working world. Have read the other thread and first two pages of this thread - will continue after 5 tonite. It would help me if we didn't copy the quotes from prior threads, but i am getting used to the site. Thanks for listening - perhaps we can do a live chat sometime this weekend. Realize - just because i have a PhD in chemistry, i don't have all the data from the movie. I was a technical expert on the chemistry and i did talk to the forester several times and i did look at his data, which he collected properly. I enjoyed the movie, but the parade on the capital steps went way longer than it should have and went nowhere. Politicians are over - let's build a horizontal society with no rules and good behavior.

Thanks again - hope this helps.

Dr. Lenny Thyme



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by lemmehowdt
 


lemmehowdt, I am retired from a major U.S. airline, 24+ years there. I know with absolute certainty that the film project you were involved in came to incorrect conclusions, based on incorrect assumptions from the start. I.E., the assumption of a concerted "spraying" program on-going.


They are looking for pilots -


Ummm...not going to let such a vague "reference" stand. Who is "they"?? And, you must provide corroborating evidence to support such an apparently wild claim.



....but the military and air craft controllers have serious issues with not following flight plans -


That makes no sense. Perhaps it is because you have little understanding of the reality of the ATC system, and aviation. In U.S> airspace, a pilot MAY NOT violate a valid ATC clearance, unless and except in cases of an emergency. That is the "Get Out of Jail Free" card for the Captain and crew...declaring an emergency, and of course, filling out all of the paperwork afterwards. To FAA and NTSB. Any other instance, and it does get reported, and Airman's Certificate action (revocation or suspension) will be considered, and initiated, by FAA.



I wonder why no pilot has stepped up -


I would think that is obvious. Because it is not happening!!




A pilot buddy of mine says no way on chem-trails because the pilots he knows wouldn't do it and they run their own ships.


You should have listened to your buddy before you shared your expertise with that travesty "documentary"....it appears they used you, and your "appeal to authority", based on your credentials....





edit on 4 March 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by lemmehowdt
Network dude - not as easy as you think. They are looking for pilots - but the military and air craft controllers have serious issues with not following flight plans - do you know in advance where they will be spraying? I wonder why no pilot has stepped up - is it an Assange game where the first will get prosecuted (in Sweden). A pilot buddy of mine says no way on chem-trails because the pilots he knows wouldn't do it and they run their own ships.

Thanks again - hope this helps.

Dr. Lenny Thyme


Thanks very much for the direct answer. My curiosity comes from the many people who believe that they are seeing chemtrails in the sky. I know that contrails can last longer than 5 minutes, 20 minutes, or even 4 hours based on conditions, but most of the chemtrail crowd seems to have ideas that when they see lasting contrails, they are in fact chemtrails. My goal in taking air samples at altitude would either prove them wrong or prove me wrong. And I am not alone in my assertions.



A plane like this is specifically made to take air samples. One like this would need to be flown into a contrail that a group of chemtrail believers thought was a chemtrail. Perhaps they could all agree that is was one of those "heavy spraying days" and then get the real scoop. If I am wrong and there really are planes out there spraying aluminum, barium, and other chemicals into the air illegally, then the world needs to know. People who claim to care about the earth and who adamantly believe in this conspiracy owe it to themselves, their country, and their Earth to do these tests. (IMHO)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by Doomzilla
RIGHT SURE !


I offered a public forum on a radio show with an audience area potentially covering approximately 110 million people.

If you think that's me being disingenous, then I'm sorry, but you're seriously misguided.

Intelligent questions and differing opinions to yours are not "propaganda". They are simply intelligent questions and differing opinions.

Just because YOU believe something, does not make it factually correct or right. It just means it is YOUR belief.

Every other poster in the thread has been replied to by our scientist friend apart from mine. My offer has not been taken up. I have received no direct U2U's, and I provided an email address back channel to Piano to forward on in order to contact me. I have received no emails as of yet.

The offer is still on the table.


edit on 4/3/11 by neformore because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by neformore
 


"Just because YOU believe something, does not make it factually correct or right. It just means it is YOUR belief."


Yes exactly and people died to allow me to express my beliefs whether they match defcon' s or not .
The difference is I dont twist peoples words and attack them like your colleague has .

I have NEVER stated whether chemtrails are real or not I am merely open minded .
If your colleague had thought before he assumed things and attacked me this thread wouldnt have got derailed .
FACT .

May I remind you should be impartial and not generalise assume and attack users who make this site what it is .

May I also remind you that 2 users have asked defcon whether he actually bothered to watch the video in the OP but he ignored them and chose to attack myself instead .

End of matter .

Please carry on with the discussion . I have never entered into dialogue with this mod and feel his attack is unwarranted and unjustified .



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by Doomzilla
May I remind you should be impartial and not generalise assume and attack users who make this site what it is .


May I remind you that board staff members are also site members, and as such are entitled to their own opinions on a subject, even though those opinions may be opposed to your own.

Moderators are People Too, (and they have opinions)




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