What Happened To Russia’s Space Shuttle Program?

Originally posted by zorgon
Once upon a time...

There were three inventors... all three worked independently of each other... (no internet back then)

All three came up with a design for a liquid fuel rocket..

One German, One American and One Russian...

The design was basically the same... but because the Russian didn't publish right away... the American and German got dual credit...

Until today when History now gives the Russian credit for being FIRST

The Russian also came up with a really COOL space station in 1886

Dont forget a Book called From Earth to the Moon
by Jules Verne

Influenced these People as it is Claimed

Jules Verne - Man and Machine
www.crystalinks.com...

Some believe that many of these insights were self-fulfilling. This may very well be the case; Verne exerted considerable influence on those scientists and engineers who pioneered space flight, including Hermann Oberth and Konstantin Tsiolkovski.

Can anyone (Slayer69 Zorgon ?) clarify this is it true? it been awhile since ive read ! From Earth To the Moon
If so the whole American Space Race Program used his book as an Instruction Book
See quote Below ?

In his books about space travel, Verne launched his spacecraft from the central coast of Florida, not far from Cape Canaveral, and landed it just three miles from where Apollo 11 splashed down on its return from the moon in 1969. He correctly calculated the velocity required for his spaceship to escape earth's gravitation and accurately described the effects of weightlessness on his astronauts. He also realized that the reentry of the craft would be fiery as it streaked through the earth's atmosphere.

From the Earth to the Moon
en.wikipedia.org...

Similarities to NASA's Apollo program

The real-life Apollo program bears similarities to the story in several ways:[4]

* Verne's cannon was called Columbiad; the Apollo 11 command module (Apollo CSM) was named Columbia[5].
* The spacecraft crew consisted of three persons in the book and each Apollo mission.
* The physical dimensions of the projectile are very close to the dimensions of the Apollo CSM.
* Verne's voyage blasted off from Florida, as did all Apollo missions. (Verne correctly states in the book that objects launch into space most easily if they are launched towards the zenith of a particular location, and that the zenith would better line up with the moon's orbit from near the Earth's equator. In the book Florida and Texas compete for the launch, with Florida winning.)
* The cost of the program in the book ($12.1 billion US in 1969 dollars) is almost similar to the total cost of the Apollo program until Apollo 8 $14.4 billion US dollars)
* Both the spacecraft in the book and all Apollo craft were recovered by U.S. Navy ships.
* Verne peculiarly describes the projectile of the Columbiad as made of aluminium, instead of steel that would have been usual for the time. Columbia was built mainly of aluminum alloys.

Imagination ! Imagination to Reality

Robert Godderd influenced -Jules Verne
Konstantin Tsiolkovsky influenced- Jules Verne
Hermann Oberth influenced - Jules Verne

I wonder if Wernher Von Braun was influenced by Jules Verne ?

As a youth he became enamored with the possibilities of space exploration by reading the science fiction of Jules Verne and H.G. Wells, and from the science fact writings of Hermann Oberth

Marshall Space Flight Center
history.msfc.nasa.gov...

Working Out the Theory - Pioneer Scientists
my.execpc.com...

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

i would like to see what the Soviet Shuttle has the exact capability's The soviet shuttle has at least a 100 ton payload! vs American Payload that is only 23 tons am i reading that right ?

That seems to be a mistake, the mass of Buran shuttle is 105 tons. Mass of its payload is up to 30 tons.

www.buran-energia.com...

edit on 3/3/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

Good Catch thanks for clearing it up for US

I was about to find out

Originally posted by Echtelion
A nice contribution, Slayer69!

Although the Buran shuttle program went to post-Soviet Hell, it's parallel aircraft project, the Antonov An-225, is doing quite good, and that's a really a badass gigantic plane that makes by dork side go "wee!"...



What a BEAST! Undoubtedly the largest air cargo in the world, could carry almost 280 tons at 2 km altitude without a fuss.. no other aircraft in history could ever do that.

Ohh Yeah LOL ! JK !
The Gooses Engine Sucked! (Prop) Weakly Made (Flying Lumberyard) and made in the 40s ! LOL
and a Big Failure but did it influenced the Russians ! ?

Wingspan
The Goose 97.5 Meters
The AN-225 88.4 Meters


Hughes H-4 Hercules
en.wikipedia.org...

Although the project did not move beyond the initial prototype, the H-4 Hercules was a forerunner of the massive transport aircraft of the late 20th century, such as the Lockheed C-5 Galaxy, the Antonov An-124, and the An-225.

Originally posted by ResearchMan
reply to post by BoneMosaic

 

Are you Alex Jones? If not then please remove your picture and stop posting.

Is that Alex Jones or a young Bill Hicks?

reply to post by Wolfenz


We launch from Florida for a couple of reasons, first, not much was there, second you get the most boost from as close to the equator as possible because the linear velocity of the earth's surface is greater near the equator, thus saving fuel to reach orbital velocity. No brainer to launch over the sea because nobody is there should the fight have problems, and you get that 1,000 mph bonus going opposite the earth's rotation, so you don't have to overcome that plus another 1,000 mph should you launch westward.

People can brag up all of the supposed Buran specs but they are largely speculative and never demonstrated. Without main rocket engines in orbit after it's lifting rockets jettison, it's corrective directional adjustments are extremely limited!!

Not sure if it was already pointed out, but the Russians also have a copy of our B 1 bomber, near exact looking is the Tupolev Tu-160


en.wikipedia.org...

We had more people tasked with denying Russia space access than they had people working on space access.

Any Russian's out there that can identify this Space vehicle which was flying in the '60's?:

history.nasa.gov...
history.nasa.gov...
history.nasa.gov...
history.nasa.gov...
history.nasa.gov...
history.nasa.gov...
history.nasa.gov...
history.nasa.gov...
history.nasa.gov...
history.nasa.gov...
history.nasa.gov...
Propulsion line blasts shown on the lunar surface from it:
history.nasa.gov...

I'll give ya a hint Ruskies, Project Orion. All started with this first test:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQCrPNEsQaY

We are +100 years BEYOND what the Russians are even THINKING of. You didn't think all those blast craters in Nevada were from just nuclear test sites did ya? They were nuclear blast craters alright....Heavy lift for Project Orion spacecraft.

We're beyond that propulsion method....It would take Russia 100 years to catch up to us. But they're being denied space access at the moment. Here's a hint. Put more sensors on what you launch to detect what's being done to it. Launch about 100 satellites to get the ability to even monitor space with radar/camera/sensors.

Maybe then...and in 100 years.....they'll catch up to where we were in 2011.

Chaps I recently saw a picture here on ATS that showed reusable shuttles (Not sure which nationality) all stacked up in a giant facility.
There were several and the caption/ description was along the lines of why we weren't using them as a result of the NASA shuttle program retiring.

Now, I can't remember where I saw the image, it hasn't resurfaced in this thread yet and I can't find it on Google

So I wonder if it was an hoax image? Or perhaps someone here can shed some light on it/ know what I am referring to hehe.

K

Great pics, I never knew Russia had their own space shuttle, let alone 4(?).

Still, I wish people could have just gotten along and build together so I'd be typing this from another planet or at least some space vessel. But instead I find myself in this reality where we're racing against eachother mostly out of prestige or to justify feelings of superiority. Let's hope people will realize one day there's more resources in space than on this planet, dropping all weapons and built a f*** spaceship so we can all get off this rock.

reply to post by Pervius

That long thing with the spiral on it? Antenna on American scpacecraft

Originally posted by Illustronic
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

We launch from Florida for a couple of reasons, first, not much was there, second you get the most boost from as close to the equator as possible because the linear velocity of the earth's surface is greater near the equator, thus saving fuel to reach orbital velocity. No brainer to launch over the sea because nobody is there should the fight have problems, and you get that 1,000 mph bonus going opposite the earth's rotation, so you don't have to overcome that plus another 1,000 mph should you launch westward.

People can brag up all of the supposed Buran specs but they are largely speculative and never demonstrated. Without main rocket engines in orbit after it's lifting rockets jettison, it's corrective directional adjustments are extremely limited!!

Thanks for the info i kinda knew that already but for Jules Verne to know ,, is something else
yet no rockets (That i know of) that were launched except Chinese canons & Congreve rocket's in the 1870s

Well in the Book Florida and Texas were having a little space race for the Location but Florida won yet the command center is in were in the USA Texas odd isnt the Instruction book From Earth to the Moon !

Ideal & Influence by a Frenchman !

calculation and math to make it all possible by a Russian (Tsiolkovsky) & German ( Oberth )

a Confirmed Verification from an American of the 2 Above ( Godderd )

Designed & made into a reality by a German (Braun) that was influenced by the a Frenchman (Verne) and another German (Oberth)

Funded & Controlled and the places in Florida and Texas by Americans get us there with the scientist and engineers that helped & worked on the Space Project from the influence of the 3 Above driven to compete
with the Russians (Soviet's)

all leading to a( was) Fictional Book that is now a reality from an Imagination > ? of a Frenchman

I think i got that right ?

now as i think about HG Wells Island of Dr Morenu and Genetic scientist that were influenced
never mind its happening already watch Animal Farm Genetic Engineering

Fictional Sci Fi Books you gotta love them !

Originally posted by 12voltz
What is needed now is a drag race ,to see who shall rule the world.
Nice comparison ,personally i like the Russian shuttle and booster ,looks like it has a bit more grunt

I couldnt care less about the looks but practicality. I felt that the advertised numbers of payload was a big difference between the Buran and the US Space shuttle. If it was truely 100 tonnes then it is a lot for something that is almost identical in size as the US shuttle.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
Great pics, I never knew Russia had their own space shuttle, let alone 4(?).

Still, I wish people could have just gotten along and build together so I'd be typing this from another planet or at least some space vessel. But instead I find myself in this reality where we're racing against eachother mostly out of prestige or to justify feelings of superiority. Let's hope people will realize one day there's more resources in space than on this planet, dropping all weapons and built a f*** spaceship so we can all get off this rock.

edit on 3/3/2011 by Dragonfly79 because: (no reason given)

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally posted by tsawyer2
Excellent post and interesting reading. Best comparison of the programs I have seen in a long time.

You forgot to mention how much technology the Soviets stole from us to make the Buran work. They didn't choose that nearly identical design by accident.

Precisely. Since WWII, the soviets have had infiltrated several programs with agents to avoid spending money on R & D for the most part. I think we have lost a lot of R&D work to Russia and China at the cost of the US Tax Payers.

Originally posted by tooo many pills

The Buran orbiter which flew the test flight was crushed in the Buran hangar collapse on May 12, 2002 in Kazakhstan.

That’s the sneakiest bunch of BS I've ever smelt. The roof caved in on the Russian government's greatest, most expensive, prized aircraft in their history....? Yeaaaahhhh f’n right! What did they drop an anvil on it?

I believe that upto certain extent since the Russian approach has always been a big gungho and typically a bit old fashioned with a bit of machismo attitude towards their equipment. For many of their projects, the motto was to train the human factor and not provide every single creature comforts to the pilots or the military personnel. Their level of detail and accountability towards a project is not that clean and reliable compared to the west where LAWSUITS are very common. Everything is/was pretty much controlled by the Government in the USSR/CCCP era. The amount of money spent on the infrastructure was very very low compared to the money spent on competing with the West with the mass manufacturing of the actual technology. Even to this day if you can compare certain military equipment from Russia vs US, there is a big difference in the relliability and final finished product vs the sustainability of the equipment after a prolonged period of use. US spend a lot of money on the maintenance of its equipment and facilities around the world in comparison to Russia where after the collapse the budgets didnt allow them to do so many things for the military. Why would they spend money on the building or facility maintenance when the program itself was shelved?

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I left the who stole what from whom out of it. I applaud both NASA and the Soviet/Russian programs. I wish there were less "Secret/Military" and more civilian aspects.

There are no secrets between Russia and the USA... it's all a ruse to keep the public bamboozled. The whole cold war was a ruse... even Wernher von Braun told us thta, just before he retired at 66 and died shortly thereafter of 'cancer', just like Ben Rich did shortly after he retired...
Hmmmm good thing I am not into conspiracies eh?
:shk:

I think the world knew when the first atomic bomb was detonated that there has to be an adversary with equal might otherwise the military might will be imbalanced. There were deliberate attempts on both sides to offset the technology and balance the technological power so no one country can have it all.

reply to post by zorgon

I saw some of the picture of the Buran. What a shame that such technology laying around collecting dust and left out in the open to be destroyed by the elements of nature. At the least they can do is park it in Moscow for the visitors or donate it to a well reputed School or University in Russia rather than leaving it out in the open space where they cannot be preserved and well maintained for generations of Russia to reflect upon the past glory of their nation.

If the Russians copied the U.S. space shuttle, or were simply inspired by it, it only goes to show that when your success comes from copying others, then you are always going to be at least one step behind those you copy.

Yes, the Russians were going broke by the time their shuttle was ready for production, so that they couldn't afford to move forward with the project, the bigger problem is that the shuttle they designed and built was already obsolete before it could be put to use.

Private sector investment has already publicly done what everyone has suspected for so long to be a practical way of getting into space, which is dropping a craft out of a flying launch vehicle.

The U.S. military was doing research on developing such a craft in the eighties, and there are reports that such a craft was built. I have never understood why such a craft has not yet been developed by NASA or the U.S. military, or why if such a craft has been built, why hasn't it been made public yet.

It is also very hard to ignore all the reports of these black triangle craft that have been reported in recent years. It seems abundantly clear there are a lot of things being held from us.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


This is my third time trying to respond Tex...

I don't know the answer to advanced propulsion obviously. But if i were to study the other forces in an environment conductive to research with people that did understand it through practice... Asia is where I would be with Dr Ling.