Expando Planet Theory more likely than Nirubu/Planet X...and happening NOW?!!!!

page: 30
85
<< 27  28  29    31  32  33 >>

log in

join

posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 12:20 PM
link   
reply to post by Shadow Herder
 
Great find, thank you for bringing subject orientated material to the table. And you did this without using personal attacks, and childish banter.

I particularly liked this section. It seems the Japanese and Chinese are not afraid of this new concept.


What this means is that the working field people now
have a forum to try to unravel the geodynamic mysteries of
the Earth. It seems as though the journal editors and
reviewers and the keepers and dolers of the science grant
monies have banded together to prevent any of the newer
seafloor data which is contrary to the plate-tectonic
hypothesis from seeing the light of day. Unfortunately, they
are also not passing all of the facts on to the students.
However, the real world awaits those students, and they we
not prepared. Truly, the time for a paradigm shift in Earth
geodynamics is now upon us, and it is incumbent upon us
to rise and meet the challenge. Alternates are being taught
at the university level in both Japan and China.


edit on 4-4-2011 by All Seeing Eye because: edit to add


In addition, from what I have seen and witnessed on this message board is that this statement is absolutely true.

It seems as though the journal editors and
reviewers and the keepers and dolers of the science grant
monies have banded together to prevent any of the newer
seafloor data which is contrary to the plate-tectonic
hypothesis from seeing the light of day


There does appear to be a real life conspiracy involving the true nature of our planet. One might presume from this paper that it has its roots in the US Navy for classified movements of naval vessels. If that were only the case it might be justified, but quite obviously we do not use one or two routs in millions of square miles of ocean.

I sense other forces have jumped on this band wagon for their own covert reasons for concealing the truth. For thousands of years our collective history has been destroyed bit by bit in a methodical fashion.

Regardless of their futile attempts, Humpty Dumpty, will be put back together, again. The agents of ignorance are becoming quite apparent.
edit on 4-4-2011 by All Seeing Eye because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 12:30 PM
link   
reply to post by sezsue
 


i thought i had recently read a scripture where gods wrath burned to the center of the earth causing increase. thought it was in matt or mark but cant seem to find it now. maybe thats why we are all scared when we go in the basement as children. we intuitively know that we are that much closer to hell. can annyone help me out with those scriptures?



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 01:54 PM
link   
reply to post by All Seeing Eye
 



In addition, from what I have seen and witnessed on this message board is that this statement is absolutely true.

That is one person's opinion based on a single instance of another person's opinion.

Contrary to what is claimed this made it into a journal. On the other hand it is arguable that this is a lesser journal and that such commentary could not make it into a more prestigious journal with a wider circulation.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 05:25 PM
link   
Interesting find.
Birch Michigan had a slight earthquake and crack in the ground last year.


Could a expanding earth be the cause? Neal Adams seems to point us in that direction in one of his video presentations.



Maybe a little spot of compression, but I doubt subduction.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 05:27 PM
link   
reply to post by sezsue
 


If you google or youtube Hollow earth there are some really good links about this kind of idea.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 06:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by badgerman24
reply to post by sezsue
 


If you google or youtube Hollow earth there are some really good links about this kind of idea.
Did you know there is a thread here on ATS concerning the hollow earth theory?

"My unexpected discovery. The Hollow Earth Theory" www.abovetopsecret.com...

Its the craziest thing I ever read about. Took me 2 years to get all of it, and even after that I still have doubts because I have seen no hard evidence to support it. But then I have never seen Mars or Jupiter with my naked eye, but I know they are there. Time will tell, as it always has.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 08:48 PM
link   
reply to post by All Seeing Eye
 


There are many possible explanations for this feature including cracks from a cave in, or a rotated block, or a slump. Nothing about this suggests an expanding Earth.

So what does it suggest. Let's go ask an expert instead of listening to a video with little content, and lots of unfounded speculations.
Prof: Earthquake caused U.P. crack

"The most-likely explanation is that the underlying limestone has faulted in a manner that has pushed rock on one side of the fault up and over the rock on the other side -- a 'reverse' or 'thrust' fault," said Pennington. "The limestone is hard and brittle, and this movement can be described as the small earthquake that was felt."



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 08:49 PM
link   
reply to post by badgerman24
 



If you google or youtube Hollow earth there are some really good links about this kind of idea.

Seismic data shows that the Earth is not hollow.



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 11:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
Pangaea theory is bunk just on the fact that the theory was formed without any bathymetric data.


Actually, it was based on a lot of evidence and yes, there is paleobathymetrics available for the Mesozoic era (Pangaea) -- Benedict & Walker (www.ajsonline.org...) and others. Easthouse discusses how fossils are used in constructing paleobathymetrics and gives an example of a Silurian shelf, which would predate Pangaea: www.jstor.org...

There are known chronologies as well.
www.sciencemag.org...

Ocean floors are fairly young, it's true. But information on Pangaea and its oceans comes not from our own ocean floor, but from layers that have been shoved upward by mountain building activity.

The clues to past plate tectonics can only be found on the present-day continents-in rocks, fossils, and structures older than about 200 million years. This is because the average age of the present-day oceanic crust is about 55 million years; the oldest parts are about 180 million years old, indicating that oceanic crust is entirely recycled every 150 million years or so. By contrast, the average age of the present-day continental crust is about 2.3 billion years, with the oldest known rocks (other than meteorites) dating back 3.96 billion years; these oldest rocks in turn contain minerals (zircons) derived from older rocks, possibly as old as 4.3 billion years.
pubs.usgs.gov...




With the latest bathymetry information expanding earth theory was formed.


The problem is that this does not take into account the layers of rocks. Take a look at the Grand Canyon as an example: web.mst.edu... -- click and expand the drawing at the top of this page.

Now, that's real geology. What you see is a base floor of granites and basalts, heavily fractured and lying at an angle. Over that is layers of lots of things, including (up from the bottom) sandstone (formed in desert environments), shale (formed in shallow swamps, more sandstone, lava (volcano), limestone (from deeper seas), sandstone (desert), limestone (again), another different type of limestone, then shale, conglomerate (mixed and shattered rocks) and sandstones.

I have never seen anyone promoting an "expanding earth" who can account for how a large area that is originally a desert turns into a swamp, then turning into a desert again, then having a volcano blow up over it, then ending up in deep ocean waters on a continental shelf, then having an environment change in the sea, then becoming a swamp, then becoming part of a huge river valley, then becoming part of five or six deserts at different points in time.

The rocks for these individual beds aren't just in the Grand Canyon -- they spread across several states. The Cretaceous limestones, in fact, stretch from Mexico up through northern Canada (when much of North America was a continental ocean shelf while the Rockies and Alleghenies were rising up along their fault lines.)

I am mentioning only the geologic beds that I'm sort of familiar with (I'm pretty familiar with the geology of Texas), but again, the "expanding earth" is inadequate to explain things like salt mines in the middle of Germany and other geologic features.

And I'm not sure what the "dinosaur controversy" is. I work in a paleontology lab as a volunteer, and I can say firsthand that people have NO idea of the real sizes of dinosaurs. Most of them were fairly small... Tenontosaurus was smaller than today's cows, velociraptor and many other raptors were smaller than a human. Only a tiny number were very large (the titanosaurs... I'm working on one) and the reason they grew so large was their bones were built like bird bones. I don't know if you have ever held an eagle, but the things weigh less than my big kitty (he's a good 20 lbs.) The titanosaurs weren't that much heavier than a triceratops.

There were huge dinos in every era.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 10:38 PM
link   
Considering the amount of changes in pressure excuded by global tidal and oceanic pressure it is a safe model to assimulate that the earth is indeed expanding.From 1 atmosphere pressure at land level to over 1000`atmosphere pressure in deep sea,it can be readily observed that the weight of oceanic movement itself plays a part in expando earth,these figures exemplify the seas influence as redistributing enormous weight and pressure on techtonic plates,therefore verifying expando.
en.wikipedia.org...

Pressure increases 1 atmosphere (atm) for each 10 m in depth. In the deep sea, although most of the deep sea is under pressures between 200 and 600 atm, the range of pressure is from 20 to 1,000 atm. Pressure exhibits a great role in the distribution of deep sea organisms. Until recently, people lacked detailed information on the direct effects of pressure on most deep-sea organisms, because virtually all organisms trawled from the deep sea arrived at the surface dead or dying. With the advent of traps that incorporate a special pressure-maintaining chamber, undamaged larger metazoan animals have been retrieved from the deep sea in good condition. Some of these have been maintained for experimental purposes, and we are obtaining more knowledge of the biological effects of pressure.

At a glance it is safe to observe if lifeforms are affected by the greatness of this pressure then so to must the crust,with increased pressure exuding onto the crust it will stretch by modulating movements from the pull of the moon on oceans.Also the resulting factor of gravity(even though gravity remains variably constant as earth keeps up with suns gravity travelling through space.).As in earlier posts,the moon,gravity,and the pieces of the clockwork universe jigsaw make for compelling expando earth.
www.atmosphericpressure.net...

Gravity Gravity affects the atmosphere because the molecules in the air are pulled by gravitational forces. The pressure on the molecules will hinge on the amount of gravity present. For instance, there is less barometric pressure on the Moon than on the Earth because the gravity there is lesser.

Yet its gravity affects our oceanic weight distribution globally ontop of the crust.This is why the seabeds are younger as shadow herder posted,because they are new.And of course allseeingeye

and

I have a allseeigeye as well,make up your own minds.Water is the bringer of life and the secret of where it comes from is ...a process expanding the earth,through post glacial icemelts and iceages in cycles.
watch for later solar cycles from 11 to 12-13 etc,which lead to iceage depositon and expansion of frozen water into ice ,further expanding crust ,either way there is a pressure exudence on the crust to stretch it ,allbeit in a seesaw fashion of expansion ,contraction equalibrium,but overall expando !.
Plus it does`nt take a rocket scientists to see the land is older than the seafloor.it should be the other way about,but its not,why is that then?
Because expando,heres a example of pressure,contracting(Weight)

and heres the expansion,remeber space is a vacuum.

So we see two forces at work affecting the global crust but with water redistribution due to moon,earth,sun gravity transferrence within a expanding medium of space.It is`nt so much the gravitational force of the moon but the dynamic change of redistributing pressure globally(in simple terms,moving volumes of weight)that contributes to expando earth.Thats why the moon and earth(15cm a year) are tugging on each other and moving away from the sun afterall.
I hope this post opens your third eye to see the glaring obviousness and enlightenment.Note at 0330 minutes the gravitational interactions that result is stretching io,yes stretching it and heating it up !

And if you don`t believe it stretches albeit due to jupiters gravity

See the clockwork at work,so its not as simple as assumed,the universe is strange,in a expanding medium of equalibriumed forces..
So cyclically overtime the moon pulling on the weight of water on earth(being closer in the past) would expando earth,remember 1000 atmospheres of pressure moving in a egg shape,that weight of water around the globe for millions of years,pulling,tugging and stretching the crust..The other planets are different ,ours is unique just as the moon Io is to jupiter..
Be enlightened ,the lamp is up high for all to be seenPrevious posts
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Peace gringo
edit on 14-4-2011 by gringoboy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 10:20 PM
link   
reply to post by gringoboy
 



Considering the amount of changes in pressure excuded by global tidal and oceanic pressure it is a safe model to assimulate that the earth is indeed expanding.From 1 atmosphere pressure at land level to over 1000`atmosphere pressure in deep sea,it can be readily observed that the weight of oceanic movement itself plays a part in expando earth,these figures exemplify the seas influence as redistributing enormous weight and pressure on techtonic plates,therefore verifying expando.

What does pressure have to do with an expanding Earth? The weight of water on the crust is about 1/3 of the weight due to crust. Water has a specific density of 1 while granites are closer to 2.8 and materials in the mantle are even higher. You've made no connection between expansion and pressure.


At a glance it is safe to observe if lifeforms are affected by the greatness of this pressure then so to must the crust,with increased pressure exuding onto the crust it will stretch by modulating movements from the pull of the moon on oceans.Also the resulting factor of gravity(even though gravity remains variably constant as earth keeps up with suns gravity travelling through space.)

Not sure what you are suggesting here, but it has been known since Newton that the net gravitational forces goes down as you go deeper into the Earth. Did you know that the force of gravity as the ISS is 90% of the force experienced at the Earth's surface?


As in earlier posts,the moon,gravity,and the pieces of the clockwork universe jigsaw make for compelling expando earth.

Where are you tying any of these issues into an expanding Earth?


and heres the expansion,remeber space is a vacuum.

Are you claiming that there are huge voids in the Earth? Really? Then why does seismic data preclude this claim? The marshmallow demo is a baloney claim. It doe snot match the world.

Despite the internal heating of Io by Jupiter, all there is to show for it is a moon which is getting smaller because it is losing mass to volcanism. It's not expanding, it is shrinking.


So cyclically overtime the moon pulling on the weight of water on earth(being closer in the past) would expando earth,

False. The moon causes a redistribution of mass. it doe snot stretch the Earth or the oceans in any permanent way.



posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 11:58 AM
link   
reply to post by gringoboy
 


Good points on the pressure put on the planet by our oceans. I have also wondered about that myself. Most people have no idea how much pressure exists a few hundred feet below the surface of the ocean. The pressure is enormous, and most of our planet is being pushed and pulled by this gynormous constantly moving force.

Here is a good example, looking at the capabilities of our modern nuclear submarines, with their advanced steel strength technologies.

www.fas.org...


During World War II, American fleet submarines normally operated at a depth of 200 feet, though in emergencies they would dive to a depth of 400 feet.
Post-War American submarines, both conventional and nuclear, had improved designs and were constructed of improved materials [the equivalent of "HY-42"]. These boats had normal operating depths of some 700 feet, and a crush depth of 1100 feet.
The Thresher, the first American submarine constructed of HY-80 steel, reportedly had a normal operating depth of 1,300 feet, roughly two-thirds the crush depth limit imposed by the HY-80 steel.
The Seawolf, the first American submarine constructed of HY-100 steel, is officially claimed by the Navy to have a normal operating depth of "greater than 800 feet," but based on the reported operating depth of the Thresher, it may be assumed that the normaly operating depth of the Seawolf is roughly double the official figure.
The Soviet Alfa submarines, constructed of titanium, reportedly had an operating depth of nearly 4,000 feet.


Most of the worlds ocean floors lie at depths below -10,000 feet, The Argentine Basin averages below -19,000 feet, and a great deal of the ocean floors are that deep. Most submarines with their highly specialized thick steel hulls, of enormous strength, can not venture anywhere close to the floor of our planets oceans, because they would literally be crushed by the enormous pressure. That kind of force is mind boggling.

The crustal surfaces of the continents support themselves in many ways, which is why we can venture deep underground in caves, the ocean waters are an enormous unsupported weight on our planet.

Only a total moron would claim that the enormous forces of the ocean do not have a great deal of effect on the structure of our planet.

On a side note, looking at the ocean's depths, there is only a small straight that links the depths of the Arctic Ocean to the rest of the worlds oceans, and that straight is not as deep as most of the world's oceans. I had never noticed this before, but looking at this information, the idea that the worlds oceans are regulated by the Arctic Ocean, seems unlikely, considering that most of the water on our planet has no access to the Arctic Ocean. Most of the gap between Norway and Greenland is pretty shallow.



posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 04:04 PM
link   
reply to post by stereologist
 


You never give a inch,but the moon and earth does,its scientific fact the moon was closer to the earth in the past and had a even more gravitational affect in the stability of the wobble of earth and the recent ,speeding of the earth rotation and axial tilt variation are indicative of the moon ,earth gravitational variation changed along with the sun earth,albeit in miniscule amounts,with gravity and the expanding medium of the universe,its enough to cause it and show this reality.
Since the moon was closer to the earth it would have more pull and most definetly stretch the crust by increased pressure as exposed in last post.www.abovetopsecret.com...
Envisage a techtonic plate under that emmence varying moving oceanic pressure due to the moons perturberance ,increasing and fluctuating,a living stretching breathing crust.
Is that not what all geoligists see,amazing anomalies like the ever increasing ethiopian rift appearing just prior to the tragic japan earthquake which in geological scales is a anomaly with new ideas being flung at it to explain it.
Nevermind Peru.
Enough said Gringo
edit on 16-4-2011 by gringoboy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 05:55 PM
link   
reply to post by poet1b
 



The pressure is enormous, and most of our planet is being pushed and pulled by this gynormous constantly moving force.

The pressures within the ocean are not changing much. Wave height and changes in atmospheric pressure mean little in terms of the pressure in the ocean. Although by human terms the pressure is great it is small compared to the pressures inside of the Earth. Pressures become great enough to form a solid core inside of the outer liquid core. That change is due to the increased pressure. The pressure due to the relatively thin film of water on the surface of the Earth has very little effect on that.


Only a total moron would claim that the enormous forces of the ocean do not have a great deal of effect on the structure of our planet.

Only someone grasping at straws would make such an uncalled for comment. In fact, the pressures due to water are only about 1/3 the pressures due to crustal rocks. So the ocean floor at 30,000 feet experiences a pressure at a depth of 10,000 feet of rock - roughly.

As you so correctly noticed the lack of good currents to the polar regions great affects the conditions in the Arctic zone. The region is relatively isolated.



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 06:05 PM
link   
reply to post by gringoboy
 


Your run on sentences are a bit hard to read. I'll do my best to address them.

What you tried to do and failed was to claim that somehow the moon was related to an expanding Earth, yet you never bothered to make a connection you simply demanded that it must exist.

The Earth and Moon were closer. That is well known. You make a suggestion that the Moon pulls on the crust. That is true. You claim that must have been greater in the past. True as well. You then claim that this must be connected to an expansion of the Earth. Unfortunately, that is not true, nor does anything stated up to that point suggest an expansion.

The Moon is close and does change the shape of the Earth ever so slightly. It is not causing an expansion of the Earth now and there is no evidence it ever caused an expansion. You suggest that the Earth is a living stretching whatever. That is not true or even a good model for the Earth.


Is that not what all geoligists see,amazing anomalies like the ever increasing ethiopian rift appearing just prior to the tragic japan earthquake which in geological scales is a anomaly with new ideas being flung at it to explain it.

The rift in Africa has been known about for decades. It is not a newly discovered feature. The rift is long and filled with volcanoes and lakes, some of which are soda lakes. It is a great place to visit and explore. It is unrelated tot he earthquakes in Japan. They are on separate plates that do not directly interact.

Does the rift valley suggest an expanding Earth? No.
Does the Japanese quake suggest an expanding Earth? No. In fact, it suggests a shrinking Earth as the Earth's rotation sped up due to that quake or the Chile quake and other large quakes.



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 08:43 PM
link   
reply to post by stereologist
 


Yeah, it can crush steel, but the pressure in the depths of our oceans have no effect on the rock that makes up our crust!


More than enough pressure to push our continents around.

Yet you talk about such pressure, and then pretend that our crustal surface is able to force its way down into the mantle. Not likely.



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 10:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by sezsue
Yes, gravity effects were mentioned in the article.

He says he thinks the earth may have been smaller in the past, which would help explain why the dinosaurs could grow so big and still be able to survive. He said gravity would not have been as strong on a smaller planet, and that could also explain how the ancients were able to build such big monuments.



Even if the Earth was expanding it would have pretty much the same density as it had when dinosaurs ruled the Earth, so the gravity would have been pretty much the same. So imo that wasn't the reason for the dinosaurs' height, more so when there were other animals and dinosaurs which were much smaller, and not to mention that to this day we do have several animals that can grow tall, and or long.
edit on 19-4-2011 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2011 @ 11:00 PM
link   
reply to post by poet1b
 



Yeah, it can crush steel, but the pressure in the depths of our oceans have no effect on the rock that makes up our crust!

Thanks for misrepresenting the facts. The pressure at the bottom of the ocean CANNOT crush steel. All it can do is to crush a steel object with a low pressure zone inside such as a submarine. The pressure could crush a can if it were unopened, yet an opened can is unaffected.


More than enough pressure to push our continents around.

Completely false. So silly it is not worth commenting on.


Yet you talk about such pressure, and then pretend that our crustal surface is able to force its way down into the mantle. Not likely.

Just because you do not understand how subduction works is meaningless. Take the time to learn how subduction, or any geological process for that matter, works.



posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 12:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by gringoboy
 




The Earth and Moon were closer. That is well known. You make a suggestion that the Moon pulls on the crust. That is true. You claim that must have been greater in the past. True as well. You then claim that this must be connected to an expansion of the Earth. Unfortunately, that is not true, nor does anything stated up to that point suggest an expansion. The Moon is close and does change the shape of the Earth ever so slightly. It is not causing an expansion of the Earth now and there is no evidence it ever caused an expansion. You suggest that the Earth is a living stretching whatever. That is not true or even a good model for the Earth.

EL Gringos Respondo
In answer,the moon does not have a affect on the crust !
The moon has a affect on the oceanic water,which inturn affects the crust because of the weight of that water,being upto 1300 atmospheric pressure compared to at land level 1.
The motion of the water modulates the crust along with deep sea atlantic volcanic rift and techtonic fissures,which is clearly demonstrated throughout this thread by all members participating.
If you take molten metal or any molten mineral and apply a external weight of force as exuded by the oceans pressure and moons gravity,you get a stretching crust ,as exemplified by previous members.
Its the invisible hand that crafts the crust over millenia.
Now as the oceans freeze,(as exemplified inantartic vostok ice record)contraction and expansion of ice moves land masses,also adding to the expansion process,then the post iceage melt(rebound)also expands the crust.
Well we are heading into the downside of global temperature as apparent on these scientists calculations.Note today




Does the Japanese quake suggest an expanding Earth? No. In fact, it suggests a shrinking Earth as the Earth's rotation sped up due to that quake or the Chile quake and other large quakes.

Indeed if the crust did not expand there would be no land for mankind,as if it shrunk,as you mentioned,the oceans would cover over all land.
its quite simple ,melted icecaps,more ocean water weight,more influence of moon on planet as more water to displace,and since the water is constantly following the moon and never stays in one place,the axial tilt changes and rotation speeds up the process of expansion..
Gringo
edit on 20-4-2011 by gringoboy because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 07:53 AM
link   
reply to post by gringoboy
 



In answer,the moon does not have a affect on the crust !

That's not true. The Moon does have an affect. The affect is very small. It is small and not persistent just as tides in the ocean are not persistent. As the position of the Moon relative to the oceans or land changes so does the tidal affect.


The motion of the water modulates the crust along with deep sea atlantic volcanic rift and techtonic fissures,which is clearly demonstrated throughout this thread by all members participating.

Again, that is false. No one has shown anything of that nature. The motion of the water is small. It amounts to less than 30 feet which would add only a single atmosphere of pressure.


If you take molten metal or any molten mineral and apply a external weight of force as exuded by the oceans pressure and moons gravity,you get a stretching crust ,as exemplified by previous members.
Its the invisible hand that crafts the crust over millenia.

Again false. This is at best a bad guess. The motions of the tides are cyclic. The tidal changes of the water rise and fall. The same is true of the crust although its motion is very small.


Indeed if the crust did not expand there would be no land for mankind,as if it shrunk,as you mentioned,the oceans would cover over all land.

The Earth is not expanding. No evidence has been put forward to show that the size of the Earth or any of the other heavenly bodies is changing except for short term small changes such as the phase changes in some of the icy moons of Jupiter.


its quite simple ,melted icecaps,more ocean water weight,more influence of moon on planet as more water to displace,and since the water is constantly following the moon and never stays in one place,the axial tilt changes and rotation speeds up the process of expansion..

You are mixing facts with fantasies here. The water on the Earth is attracted by the Moon and the Earth no matter what state it is in. The water does not follow the Moon. The position of the water is affected by the Moon, but does not follow the Moon. I hope you understand the difference. The axial tilt and rotation does not speed up expansion, sicne expansion is not happening.





new topics

top topics



 
85
<< 27  28  29    31  32  33 >>

log in

join