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What the Bible teaches about homosexuality.

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posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by The Djin
Needles to say my atheist morals are far superior than the jesus/yahweh gods morals, no doubt be cause he is imaginary.


My friend, if you believe this you have sorely missed the point. There is no moral standard higher than Christ's standard. No one has come along and proved a better one with their own lives, and death, and subsequent resurrection.

You are looking for evidence of Christ when you cannot open your eyes and see him in others. This is because so few actually take it upon themselves to Be like Christ. You claim your moral code is more pure than Christ's? Really? Does yours include absolutely loving all Mankind? Does yours include loving them while they persecute you? Does yours include loving them when they scourge you? Does yours include begging for THEIR forgiveness as they nail you to a cross? Does your moral code love your fellow man so much?

Would you be willing to prove it with your life?

That is a pretty high bar of morality. Very few could come close. If you have done these things in your own moral code, then I will gladly say yours is equal. However, it will not be greater until you have given your life and were resurrected in three days.

Pull that feat off, and I will believe you have the highest morality.

So, rather than boast on who has a higher morality, why not recognise where the bar is. Then work together to attain it.

With Love,

Your Brother


I hate it when you belittle some of the prophets from the bible. But in this reply post to Djin, you said it perfectly and to the point, and you hit the nail right on the head.
Some times you say it so well and some times you go off. But none of us are perfect, and we do all have to keep learning, myself, you, and everyone else that's willing.

This one post of yours should complete this thread and end it all here, especially for all those naysayers.
edit on 3-3-2011 by hawaii50th because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by hawaii50th
I hate it when you belittle some of the prophets from the bible. But in this reply post to Djin, you said it perfectly and to the point, and you hit the nail right on the head.
Some times you say it so well and some times you go off. But none of us are perfect, and we do all have to keep learning, myself, you, and everyone else that's willing.


My friend, when I say something that does not sound perfect to you, it is because I am talking to someone else.

Not everyone understands things the same way, thus these things must be explained in ways all will understand it. Just because what I am saying does not make sense to you, does not mean that it is wrong.

I do not be little any of the Prophets. What you are failing to see, is that I am not bringing the Prophets down, I am bringing You and Others up.

I would rather hear what is from YOUR heart. You live. You are a testament to Christ. I do not want to hear from the Christ that died, I want to hear from the Christ that lives within you. What does YOUR heart say?

I am bringing you up to the level of the prophets, I am not bringing them down.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 





My friend, if you believe this you have sorely missed the point. There is no moral standard higher than Christ's standard.


Are we talking about the same character here ?
For clarity I am referring to the character that appears in the bibles commonly called jesu/yahwe by christians and is alleged by them to be an omniscient,omnipotent,omnibenevolent,omnipresent, god that created everything that is, was, and will ever be.


You may or may not be aware that jesus/yahwhe is a charter from a compilation of manuscripts compiled as books called bibles which christians claim are truthful accounts

Throughout these accounts of the character jesus/yahwhe we can see that he advocates the ownership of another human being as personal property and at no time does the christian god condemn the enslavement of anothe human being eg -


Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes



First Timothy 6:1-6 Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church;


Needless to say I personally find the act of enslaving another person to be considered my personal property thoroughly repugnant and would not even entertain the though of condoning it to the point of doing everything that I could to prevent such despicable a practice .

Therefore reason would dictate that I (along with the best part of the western world) find enslavement completely repugnant and morally repulsive on this one issue alone my morals are far superior to this jesus/yahweh god.






No one has come along and proved a better one with their own lives, and death, and subsequent resurrection.



Again I beg to differ, I also find the act of vicarious redemption (also known as the practice of scapegoating) both vulgar and repulsive. So contrary to your assertion, even I have come along with a better moral standard as I can forgive without the requirement of killing nor even bloodshed





You are looking for evidence of Christ when you cannot open your eyes and see him in others. This is because so few actually take it upon themselves to Be like Christ.



Again you are completely incorrect, I do not seek evidence of the jesus/yawhe god (Christ was merely a title by the way and could have applied to anyone) I merely demand proof from those that would have me or mine suffer the ideology being shoved down our throats.



You claim your moral code is more pure than Christ's? Really? Does yours include absolutely loving all Mankind?


Indeed I do, it is quite a natural state certainly no code involved.





Does yours include loving them while they persecute you? Does yours include loving them when they scourge you? Does yours include begging for THEIR forgiveness as they nail you to a cross? Does your moral code love your fellow man so much?


Well although I can truthfully answer to the above the fact remains that there is no first hand evidence proving this alleged event even took place.
But even if this event did take place you have me at a disadvantage as I am not an omnipresent creator of the universe and seeing how the intention of crucifixion would be that I die, I likely would. Unlike your jesus/yahwhe allegedly omnipresent could not actually die.

In regard to being tortured/scourge etc this was not an uncommon practice and as jesus/yahwhe (allegedly) only remind on the cross a few hours compared to anyone else who remind there till their bones were picked, well the suffering was nowhere near as great.

(incidentally what is most bizarre about the whole affair is why jesu/yahwhe would ask himself why he had abandoned himself )





Would you be willing to prove it with your life?


As there was no life lost in the described incident no real comparison can be made so you will have to think up a more suitable scenario.




That is a pretty high bar of morality.


Not really, as the jesus/yahweh character demonstrates himself to be, to put it mildly, a capriciously nasty killer of humans, the bar is set so low that a career criminal would likely as not trip over it.


Again I re assert my claim that my morals are demonstrably far superior to that of the bible god in many ways and I have merely discussed two.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:17 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 





No God of mine would ever rely on variables for his laws.


You see this doesn't help the debate, you guys got so many different gods its' really hard to keep up



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by hawaii50th

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by The Djin
Needles to say my atheist morals are far superior than the jesus/yahweh gods morals, no doubt be cause he is imaginary.



This one post of yours should complete this thread and end it all here, especially for all those naysayers.
edit on 3-3-2011 by hawaii50th because: (no reason given)




Seems like he failed miserably my friend, "Hoorah let the games continue " lol



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:26 AM
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reply to post by The Djin
 


So rather than concern the issues, you would make fun. K.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by illuminnaughty
reply to post by SquirrelNutz
 

Nicely put and its as you say. Not a normal/natural thing, if we are designed to be a union of male and female. So that we can multiply.
Im not a homophobe. I dont mind them at all as it just means more ladies for the likes of me.


true that brother..


And, another thing - I highly recommend you acquire some gay friends if you are straight and 1) want your girl to be safe and 2) want to 'keep an eye' on her.

We were on a cruise with 3 other couples, and the guys wanted to have a 'guys night' to gamble in the casino with each other, and drink and get rowdy, and the girls hung with 2 gay guys they met earlier in the day and headed to the dance club (biggest one on the sea at the time (RC: Spledor of the Seas)).

- With 'guys' with them, they already look 'taken' so other guys stay away
- Truth is, they (our girls) don't want to be hassled anyway, so it allows them to have a good time
- next, even the guys that DO see what's going on, don't approach 'cause gay guys are very protective of their women friends
- It's an additional few 'hens' to their pack that can immediately identify with all things 'girl' that you don't give a sh:t about
- They are incredibly loyal to the straight male counterparts if you are friendly and real (they'll let you know if your girl is the type that might 'slip' and push the boundaries of what's decent, and TELL you)

Telling you, it's a win, win, win.. forget the gay pride, skimpy clad parade bull# that you see on the news as 'normal lifestyle' - yes, that stuff is real and the 'flamers' go way out of their way to let you know that they deserve their rights (which they do) and the media picks up on it, to purpetrate the propaganda that all gay activity is like that and it's ALL the time. A trick to keep you fearful of it. Don't beleive the hype.


[I'd love to see what that string of posts that was censored above (last page) - I'm sure it was hysterical]



edit on 3/4/2011 by SquirrelNutz because: too early to spell



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by The Djin
 


So rather than concern the issues, you would make fun. K.


Well the issue is what the bible teaches about Homosexuality, which is pretty much love the homosexual but kill men that engage in homosexuality, I think that just about sums up what the bible has to say about the matter.



All I've seen from the xtian corner is pretty much cherry picking and a lot of wriggling and squirming .

I haven't seen the word "Grace" pop it's head up in this thread yet, that one is normally a favorite of xtians trying to distance themselves from jesus' incarnation as yahwhe.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by The Djin
Are we talking about the same character here ?
For clarity I am referring to the character that appears in the bibles commonly called jesu/yahwe by christians and is alleged by them to be an omniscient,omnipotent,omnibenevolent,omnipresent, god that created everything that is, was, and will ever be.


We are talking of the same then.


Originally posted by The Djin
You may or may not be aware that jesus/yahwhe is a charter from a compilation of manuscripts compiled as books called bibles which christians claim are truthful accounts


Thank you for the news flash. Now I know that you have an elementary concept of the figure of Christ.


Originally posted by The Djin
Throughout these accounts of the character jesus/yahwhe we can see that he advocates the ownership of another human being as personal property and at no time does the christian god condemn the enslavement of anothe human being eg -


Ah, I bet you have a list of ready to pull quotes that back up your theory don't we?


Originally posted by The Djin

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes



First Timothy 6:1-6 Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church;


There we go. Pull the quotes out of context so that you can prove that through your own ignorance, you do not understand what you just posted. No worries my friend. I see it done all the time by the same Christians you profess to be better than.



Originally posted by The Djin
Needless to say I personally find the act of enslaving another person to be considered my personal property thoroughly repugnant and would not even entertain the though of condoning it to the point of doing everything that I could to prevent such despicable a practice .


You are all slaves to something my friend. You must always choose what you serve. In the end, you will serve something.


Originally posted by The Djin
Therefore reason would dictate that I (along with the best part of the western world) find enslavement completely repugnant and morally repulsive on this one issue alone my morals are far superior to this jesus/yahweh god.


Well maybe they are more moral than jesus/yahweh as you have made them in your mind. However, your mind is clouded with ignorance. If you educated your mind on the matter, you would not howld the same view.



Originally posted by The Djin
Again I beg to differ, I also find the act of vicarious redemption (also known as the practice of scapegoating) both vulgar and repulsive. So contrary to your assertion, even I have come along with a better moral standard as I can forgive without the requirement of killing nor even bloodshed.


Prove it. Forgive the Christians for not representing their Christ in his true light, and learn about the man before you condemn based on the ignorant words of others.


Originally posted by The Djin
Again you are completely incorrect, I do not seek evidence of the jesus/yawhe god (Christ was merely a title by the way and could have applied to anyone) I merely demand proof from those that would have me or mine suffer the ideology being shoved down our throats.


Again, this is not Christ's doing, this is the doing of his followers who are as ignorant of him as you. Yet you judge the man for what others have done in his name. If I go out and murder tonight, in your name, is it ok for the world to hate you?



Originally posted by The Djin
Well although I can truthfully answer to the above the fact remains that there is no first hand evidence proving this alleged event even took place.
But even if this event did take place you have me at a disadvantage as I am not an omnipresent creator of the universe and seeing how the intention of crucifixion would be that I die, I likely would. Unlike your jesus/yahwhe allegedly omnipresent could not actually die.


So the answer would be no, you could not do it.


Originally posted by The Djin
Not really, as the jesus/yahweh character demonstrates himself to be, to put it mildly, a capriciously nasty killer of humans, the bar is set so low that a career criminal would likely as not trip over it.


Again, you speak on things you do not know. You simply lie because you are too lazy or fearful to know the truth on the matter. You my friend, are no different than the Christians you despise. Your moral code, I suspect, to be right in line with theirs.

Do what is best for ME before others do what is best for them.


Originally posted by The Djin
Again I re assert my claim that my morals are demonstrably far superior to that of the bible god in many ways and I have merely discussed two.


Claim all you want my friend. I am still waiting for the evidence.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 10:51 AM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 


Dude with respect,

Your last response to me has to be the most appallingly intellectually redundant reply I have ever received here on ATS, although it was no less than I would expect from many a bible thumper I have to say you took me quite by surprise with your totally inept responses.

The observable outcome of your several paragraphs of diatribe was no more than poking your tongue out at me you just had well stuck one of these -
in as a reply for all your unreasoning digression.

It would appear from observing your response to others and from your response here, that your are incapable of entering into debate without shutting down any faculties of reason that you may have had.

It would also appear that in order to engage you and pin you down on a matter one must have to hold your hand and walk you through it one word at a time which would no doubt end up in posts pages long.

I would politely ask that you re read your last replies to me and ask yourself do the really bear any relationship at all with what I posted because frankly most do not.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by The Djin
Dude with respect,

Your last response to me has to be the most appallingly intellectually redundant reply I have ever received here on ATS, although it was no less than I would expect from many a bible thumper I have to say you took me quite by surprise with your totally inept responses.

The observable outcome of your several paragraphs of diatribe was no more than poking your tongue out at me you just had well stuck one of these -
in as a reply for all your unreasoning digression.


I know my friend, it was atrocious. I was merely gauging the level we were on by your previous reply. You know me enough by now not to come at me with canned "Anti-Christian" responses. I give you better than that every chance I get don't I? As you can see from my reply, those kind of responses do not move to knowing truth. They are mere sportsmanship.

So, if you will forgive me, I will forgive you and we can discuss what Christ's morality was REALLY about.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 


Now now boys play nice, he he he.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by Swanseadog
reply to post by IAMIAM
 


Now now boys play nice, he he he.


Dude are you really from Swansea ?
Would be really cool not to be the only taf around here having this debate



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by The Djin
 


I am from Swansea, live in the Mumbles.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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Seems like he failed miserably my friend, "Hoorah let the games continue " lol


It does not surprise me one bit. It's easier to step out of the closet than it is to step out of the dark.


 


Mod Edit: Removed excessive quotes.
edit on 3/5/2011 by AshleyD because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by The Djin
 


If you were in ancient Israel than yes.

You are not in ancient Israel. Ergo, the laws that governed it have no place in faith seen in the New Testament. You are not a Jew and you are not in ancient Israel. in ergo, killing gays is irrelevant in the modern Gentile America.

I said it before, but you just ignored it. The laws that ancient Israel was bound to as a nation are like the Magna Carta to America. A set of laws that are good for referencing, but to which we are not bound by. The 10 commandments were a Holy law, The Leviticus and other things were national laws for one of the first republics of the ancient world. You are neither a citizen of this ancient republic, nor are you a Jew. In as much as you are not an English Farmer in the year 1300 and thus not bound by the laws back then.

The purpose of Israel has been fulfilled. Thus we have the new testament.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 






You are not in ancient Israel. Ergo, the laws that governed it have no place in faith seen in the New Testament. You are not a Jew and you are not in ancient Israel. in ergo, killing gays is irrelevant in the modern Gentile America.


So we are clear -

Jesus is claimed to be god one and the entity as Yahwhe, the creator of all that there is and will ever be.

(I don't make this claim)

Yahwhe/jesus made it clear (eg the flood ) that those that acted contrary to his wishes would be punished,cut off etc.

Following this yawhe/jesus made rules/codes to live by, these either were or were not explicitly for the decedents of Noah.

These rules/codes were given to prophets such as Moses to instruct the people.

Yawheh /jesus clearly said -


It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17


If the guy was speaking to jews then there can be no misunderstanding "his" laws/rules are not changed.

So far all well and good, a jew god in a jew body telling jews that he doesn't change his mind.


THE STORY SO FAR-

For a couple of hundred thousand years humans eked out a living on planet earth, they often had relatively short lifespans, many dying from child birth disease starvation etc acting how the please warring and killing.

Then, a couple of thousand years ago Yahwh/jesus looks down on earth and decides to give some of them rules to live by morals an laws and call them his chosen people and directs them to a land of milk and honey where they were to kill off the humans that were no his chosen people nor did not give laws to.

A couple of thousand years later yahwhe/jesus looks down and see his chosen people were not listening to him nor loving him or obeying his laws/rules. Yahwhe/jesus decides to take another bodily form as the bastard child of a jew girl and make a claim for the throne and priesthood of the jews..

He taught these first century jews things that he had some reason neglected to teach them in person first time around making it clear that the original rules he gave some men called "prophets" to give to the other jews still stood he had not changed his mind.


He then got the jews to reject him and persuade the other humans who lived on erath (presumably created by one of the other gods he was so jealous of) to kill torture him and somehow kill him although he was an omnipresent being.

After being tortured and killed with far more lenience that the average jew criminal it must be said, Yahwhe/jesus came back to life spoke to a few of the humans that were jews then went back into the sky to continue watching his jew people and also the other humans not obey his rules.


I am so so fortunate to not have been raised with this sort of drivel filling my head and the potential for pouring this nonsense down the throats of my own children.

Luckily for me I was not born one of the "chose" jew humans plagued by this monster that lives in the sky.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by The Djin
 


If you were in ancient Israel than yes.

You are not in ancient Israel. Ergo, the laws that governed it have no place in faith seen in the New Testament. You are not a Jew and you are not in ancient Israel. in ergo, killing gays is irrelevant in the modern Gentile America.

I said it before, but you just ignored it. The laws that ancient Israel was bound to as a nation are like the Magna Carta to America. A set of laws that are good for referencing, but to which we are not bound by. The 10 commandments were a Holy law, The Leviticus and other things were national laws for one of the first republics of the ancient world. You are neither a citizen of this ancient republic, nor are you a Jew. In as much as you are not an English Farmer in the year 1300 and thus not bound by the laws back then.

The purpose of Israel has been fulfilled. Thus we have the new testament.


I love it when I meet a fellow traveller who understands the journey.

Well said my friend.

I might add that it is a book told primarily from the male point of view. Where are the books of ALL the females mentioned in the Bible? Where is their story? Their story isn't told because they migrated away from the patriarchal society. Such was the fate of Lot's wife for example.

With Love,

Your Brother



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by The Djin
So we are clear -

Jesus is claimed to be god one and the entity as Yahwhe, the creator of all that there is and will ever be.


This is not what Christ claimed. He said he and the Father are one, he said he is within the father and the father is within him. He said he was the Son of God. He said those who followed him would also be Children of God.

What is being said here? Is it not obvious? He was telling the truth!

If God is everywhere, all powerful, all knowing, and ever present, then Christ's statement is logically correct.

He and the father are one. How can anyone be separate for that which is all? Even an atheist must be able to see that in this vast universe, we are vastly connected. Where is anyone truly separate from another? We do not end our connections at the skin, we cultivated a voice, waves that each recognise. We have placed markers on us in the form of clothing and persona's to keep us compartmentalised. Under the illusion of these veils, we are all intimately connected. Every breath I breath effects the whole world. Every scream they make effects the whole. Yes, we are not seperate from God, we and the father are one.

He said he was within the father and the father was within him. It doesn't take a doctorate in theology to see that this must be truth. If God is every where, ever present, and YOU are not, then You must be within God and God must be within you. You cannot be the greater, you are the lesser.

He said he was the Son of God and if you believed him, you were children of God. Another statement of truth. Hello, YOU are Children of God. But you are not special! We are all equal. If you cannot believe that humble loving Christ is the Son of God, how can you claim to be? You must stop judging and simply accept him as a testament to your belief that we are all Children of God. He is the only one that acted like a Child of God acted. That is following in his ways. Is it really that hard to treat each other lovingly?

Remember, God is everywhere. What you do to each other, you are doing to God.


Originally posted by The Djin
(I don't make this claim)

Yahwhe/jesus made it clear (eg the flood ) that those that acted contrary to his wishes would be punished,cut off etc.


My friend, all Christ asked of his followers was to love one another. Is that too much to ask?
The judgement he warns of will come to pass. Those who continue to live a life of hate and judgement will snuff one another out. The meek shall inherit the earth.


Originally posted by The Djin
Yawheh /jesus clearly said -


It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." Luke 16:17


If the guy was speaking to jews then there can be no misunderstanding "his" laws/rules are not changed.


Again, his law is simply to love one another. It is a law written in your heart. It will never pass away. It just gets buried under all the crap life hands you. If you dig through the crap, their is the treasure of the heart yearning for love.

You have been told many wrong things about Christ my friend. His words have been twisted in your mind and you cannot see the other way.

With Love,

Your Brother













posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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Skimming through 26 pages of this, I can honestly say that it would be a lot easier to be an atheist..


2nd line
edit on 5-3-2011 by Taupin Desciple because: Clarity



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