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What the Bible teaches about homosexuality.

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posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by CLPrime
. . .



. . .
And this is where the vast majority of Christians fail to understand the significance of Jesus and the New Covenant. We no longer live under the Law. Today, we live under Grace, and our actions are no longer a means to salvation. Instead, our salvation rests on the death, burial, and resurrection of the Son of God. It no longer matters whether a thing or action is clean or unclean. What matters now is faith, repentance, and baptism into the Kingdom of God.



. . .



As a preacher, you should really really research some more.

First of all, you are dead wrong about Sodom and Gomorah.

Jude 1.7 -
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

It was not because they were "mean." It was because they practiced sexual immoralities and perversions.


Continuing on . . .


Galatians deals with a specific issue that was hotly debated in the first century and that issue was whether a Gentile who believed in Yeshua should be ritually circumcised, or become Jewish, to be saved.

Galatians is not teaching that the Law, commandments, the Torah, the instruction of God has been done away with but it says that you cannot do anything to improve on the grace of God already received by obeying man-made rabbinical oral law. Once a believer has righteousness from God as a free gift and the Holy Spirit has circumcised the heart he follows, keeps, obeys the Torah as a way of life because that is the law written on his heart( Deut. 30.6; Jer. 31.31-34) and in doing so learns about Messiah (Rom 10.4; Luke 24.27; John 5.39-47), prophecy and the things to come (Col 2.16-17).

To think that the law was done away with is ridiculous.

Paul himself kept the Torah. In Acts 21 Paul was coming out of a Nazarite vow (see Numbers 6) and was coming to Jerusalem to keep the feast of Shavuot (Lev 23) and to offer the animal sacrifices required in Numbers 6 and give alms (Acts 24.17). James tells Paul that there is a rumor that Paul is telling the Jews among the nations to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children. Paul says that this is untrue, which means he IS telling them to follow Moses and he IS telling them to circumcise their children. So, in order to prove that these things are not true he agrees to pay for the animal sacrifices required for four other believers in Yeshua who are also coming out of a Nazarite vow (Acts 21.22-26). He also says in Acts 24.14 that he had done nothing in violation of the Torah and he obeyed it. Paul’s own testimony about himself and illustrated by his life is that he obeyed the Torah and taught it to others (1Cor 11.1-2).

Paul cannot be obeying the Torah in his own life and then write any book that says the law has been done away with.

Furthermore . . .

When the Septuagint was translated the word used in place of "Torah" was the Greek word "Nomos". While it is true that "Nomos" means any law, it was used exclusively for Torah. Also, the word "Nomos" isn't written one single time in the Book of Collosians, and certainly not in 2:13-14. The words are cheirographon dogmasin. It literally means a written document of law violations, written as well as dogmatic, also meaning "man's laws". There is no way to make this mean the Torah. It means that our sins have been forgiven and that we have now become clean again. The violations that separated us from YHWH have been erased. The wall of partition that prevented us from entering into His presence have been removed. It's the same thing that was impressed on Peter with the "sheet from heaven incident". All people are now clean, not just the circumcised of flesh. You may want it to say the Torah was done away with, but it doesn't. Just get out a Strong's and look it up for yourself. The New Covenant did supersede the Mosaic Covenant, just like all the previous 6 Covenants superseded the ones before them, but they didn't nullify them. They added to them. If they nullified the covenants before them, then why does Paul reference the Old Testament at all? The promise to Abraham would be nullified. The 10 Commandments would be nullified. The need for blood to atone would be nullified. That alone should tell you this can't be, otherwise Messiah didn't have to die in the first place.





Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Barnes' Commentary explains the meaning of "to destroy" as "to abrogate; to deny their Divine authority; to set men free from the obligation to obey them." That is, Christ did not set men free from their obligation to the law.

Interpreting "to fulfill" to mean Christ came to end the Law or the Prophets, when in the same breath, He said He did not come to end them doesn't make any sense! However, the meaning "fill to the full" does. This meaning of pleeroo is found is several New Testament passages. For instance, Romans 15:13 says, "Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit."

Obviously, the correct way to understand "fulfill" in Matthew 5:17 is "to fill to the full." His complete statement means, "I didn't come to do away with the Law or the Prophets, but rather I came to uphold them in everything that I say and do."

The prophecy of the Messiah in Isaiah 42:21 helps explain what Christ did in fulfilling the law: "He will exalt [magnify, King James Version] the law and make it honorable." Jesus expanded our understanding of God's law by showing that we must obey the spirit of the law as well as the letter, as several of Jesus' following examples in Matthew 5 show.

Study Up






Final thought. Is God unchanging or not?
edit on 3/2/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by ArchIlluminatus
 




OK thank you. It is clear, thanks to you, what the Christian position is (missionary I suspect). Now we have only to reaffirm that Christian rules for behavior apply to Christians only. For others they are optional. For the purposes of law they must be ignored because of their origins. They come out of a religious text. They, therefore, are religious. We do not intermix religion and civil law in this country. There is no Christian Sharia here. So Christians when you attempt to force feed others what you believe you are wrong to do so. There is no official religion in America. Thank God.

The above bit of logic should end it. And I don't want to hear about Christian values of the founders either. If you want to know what Jefferson thought of Christianity and the Bible just go read a "Jeffersonian Bible" and you will see. There can be no argument to that book. Jefferson cuts out all the bull# and leaves only that which is constructive and valuable.

God did not write the Bible. If He did then, like the Quran, there would only be one. There is not. There are many Bibles. If the Bible is the word of God what man dares to edit it? King James for one. And many others like the Jehovah's Witnesses....etc

God created a certain number of homosexual men and women in order to present learning opportunities to them and to the rest of us. We are to learn tolerance and humility. Shall we deny God? Are we to mock God's Intelligent Design and try to claim people choose this?

Christians please go away and keep your religion to yourselves.
edit on 2-3-2011 by trailertrash because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-3-2011 by trailertrash because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by Rockstrongo37
reply to post by Ryanssuperman
 


I know you are passionate in your belief that any "anti-homosexual" scripture was added by a homophobe later on and not intended by God to be in the Bible...but there is simply no evidence of such a conspiracy.

The truth is just as was stated by the author of this thread. You can disagree with it if you want but you can't debate the documents given based upon your feelings, or your suspicions that verses were added by people later who didn't like gay people...you simply don't have the evidence to support such a claim.

Its historical record that homosexuality has always been understood as a sin by both orthodox Jews as well as the Christian church.


You also cant give me proof of the opposite, that I am wrong. You also cant give me proof that god stated these observations on homosexuality, or even that god exists.

Also, dont focus on my personal beliefs. Focus on my original quote from the bible. Thats all that matters. If we're made in his image, than anything that we are born as, created as, is a part of god.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


Without a doubt God is unchanging....but the bible isn't God...Nor is he found in any Book



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by Violater1

Originally posted by Ryanssuperman
I have one thing that completely contradicts anything you can throw at me about this topic:

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

P.S. I believe any anti homosexual scripture was added by egotistical and probably closeted men in power when the "Bible" was written in its current form.

Any religion that promotes love between all of gods creations, and that god loves all of his creations, but then says "this type of creation is wrong", is incredibly hypocritical.

Either god loves all of his creations, or he doesn't exist as the god that the bible trys(sic) to teach us.
edit on 2-3-2011 by Ryanssuperman because: (no reason given)



That is a very twisted puny thought to think that G_D had sex with him self in order to create man. G_D created Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve.



...what? lol



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:18 PM
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I understand that the three major religions hate homosexuality, but I have yet to hear a good reason as to WHY God hates homosexuality..

Or is this where faith comes in?

Oh yes, faith! Such a convenient thing for people that don't want to or can't ask WHY!



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by Reflection
 


As was previously stated, its a part of nature and though it might seem wrong to some or even unnatural... the fact remains, it exists for a reason. We all have different colors, different looks, and different preferences.

God created us all equally, meaning if you were born being sexually attracted to your own sex...so be it.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
God is unchanging.

If you are a believer, you are grafted into the tree.

One branch is the old Covenant had animal sacrifices. The other branch is the new covenant, which has Jesus. Both should adhere to the Torah, as it is God's unchanging word.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:36 PM
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Heres some things to think about for all you Haters out there....

Have you ever met a gay person?

Have you ever spent time with a gay person?

If you had a child that grew up in a totally straight environment, yet still turned out to be gay...would you love him any less?

Would you judge your own child?

I grew up with a guy that was gay from the time i met him....even before i knew what gay was. He had straight parents who loved him dearly...but he was gay from Grade 1...he was always different then other guys. While me and my friends wanted to fight and wrestle, he hung around girls and played with dolls. We made fun of him because he was different from the rest of us, but he didn't care. He knew what he was even before he hit puberty, only after a few years he also realised he was attracted to men and not women. He had no outside influences from any gay people what so ever....he was born that way.

People you have to realize gay people are normal just like the rest of us, they're not evil....They're not going to hell, they're not sinning. They're living with what God gave them...

I don't give a flying F**k what a 2000 year old book full of hatred and prejeduce has to say....its wrong. Yes i said it...the bible is wrong.....Looks like im going to hell too!

Love everyone as you love yourself, our species will never progress without this essential law of life which applies to all aspects of everyones being.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Akragon
God is unchanging.

If you are a believer, you are grafted into the tree.

One branch is the old Covenant had animal sacrifices. The other branch is the new covenant, which has Jesus. Both should adhere to the Torah, as it is God's unchanging word.



All comming from a book that was written by man, not God... I don't believe in the bible i believe in God....and he is not in that book, or any book found on this or any other planet.

God is in us all...



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:40 PM
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Read a few replies, some good response, but I have a few points.

Lets say the "christian" god created man (then woman etc etc) in the form of himself. If everyone one of us, is thus a creation of God, what does homosexuality mean for God?

How recently has God made himself known, and to personally condemn such acts from the beings he created?

Homosexuality is rife in the Animal Kingdom, again this is another extension of the hand of the creator?

Who is really right to judge what is classed as Sin?

Do christian leaders condemn sexual acts? Why? Is sex not one of the most natural acts 2 beings can elope in? Without this act, each and every one of us wouldn't be here typing now.

Man to a large degree has manipulated religious doctrine over many years to enforce their own agendas, not a lot has changed. Also to follow up from someone who said "christians" do not go into peoples homes and force religion down their throats... Well to a lesser degree your church and many others has done exactly that.

Your christian missions across the globe for humanitarian means has been used as a cover to enlist many other tribes and cultures. As a result the world has lost much of the uniqueness it once had all to become a part of a larger cult following. When I see christian churches run by and for native peoples, instead of those peoples historical beliefs and cultures, it saddens me something terrible. Those people had their ways, their connection to their God (could be same god, but their set of unique beliefs). Those stories, that history has been wiped from the face of the earth.

Not having a go at anyone here, far from it, there is a great debate going on, but I tend to be more of a realist, more of a live and let live kind of guy.

I believe in being christlike - which is being a person of charitable nature. Caring for your neighbour, to be honest enough to know we are never free from sin. To be strong enough to try and control urges which would badly impact others. To hold free from judgement - and for me, most importantly, to lead by example. Be the christlike person you want to be, but not to preach about it. Be the change you want to see in the world, don't preach about the change.

If all human principles could become so much more simplified, I am sure the world would be a far happier place, and who knows, perhaps ALL of us would find a place with God... if in fact he does exist.
edit on 2-3-2011 by moleskin because: speeling mistake lol



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by moleskin
 


Well said...



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:48 PM
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I have a feeling this entire thread was made to bait christians into posting so an athiest could be amused while he touches himself.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
Heres some things to think about for all you Haters out there....


Heh. Not a hater, but will answer anyways, since I am already labeled.


Have you ever met a gay person?


Yep. Quite a few.


Have you ever spent time with a gay person?


Yep. Quite a lot


If you had a child that grew up in a totally straight environment, yet still turned out to be gay...would you love him any less?


I will always love my children. I will NOT always love the actions that they do.


Would you judge your own child?


Yes. I do all the time. From bad decisions to bad grades. That is called being a parent.




. . .

People you have to realize gay people are normal just like the rest of us, they're not evil....They're not going to hell, they're not sinning. They're living with what God gave them...



God says differently.

Who will I trust. God . . . or you?


I don't give a flying F**k what a 2000 year old book full of hatred and prejeduce has to say....its wrong. Yes i said it...the bible is wrong.....Looks like im going to hell too!


Your choice to make. :shrug:


Love everyone as you love yourself, our species will never progress without this essential law of life which applies to all aspects of everyones being.


I do. I hate no one.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:52 PM
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posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Originally posted by Akragon
Heres some things to think about for all you Haters out there....


Heh. Not a hater, but will answer anyways, since I am already labeled.


Have you ever met a gay person?


Yep. Quite a few.


Have you ever spent time with a gay person?


Yep. Quite a lot


If you had a child that grew up in a totally straight environment, yet still turned out to be gay...would you love him any less?


I will always love my children. I will NOT always love the actions that they do.


Would you judge your own child?


Yes. I do all the time. From bad decisions to bad grades. That is called being a parent.




. . .

People you have to realize gay people are normal just like the rest of us, they're not evil....They're not going to hell, they're not sinning. They're living with what God gave them...



God says differently.

Who will I trust. God . . . or you?


I don't give a flying F**k what a 2000 year old book full of hatred and prejeduce has to say....its wrong. Yes i said it...the bible is wrong.....Looks like im going to hell too!


Your choice to make. :shrug:


Love everyone as you love yourself, our species will never progress without this essential law of life which applies to all aspects of everyones being.


I do. I hate no one.


Being a parent isn't judgeing your child its teaching them and guiding them... If you teach your child not to be gay, yet he still is because its in his nature, would you consider that being a good parent? Yes you would....you wouldn't have a choice in the matter because he was born that way regardless of what you taught, as is the case for my friend which i mentioned.

And by the way...God doesn't say differently like you stated, man says differently. God didn't write the bible, that is a fact beyond any arguement. Inspired by God or not, its not written by him... If you ask, who will you trust God or me, well im not God....but niether is the bible....

As i've said over and over.......God isn't in a book.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by ArchIlluminatus
 


Hi first time post because I'm sick of seeing this debate constantly. Honestly why don't you keep your religion to yourself and the gay community can keep to itself. Secondly I'm curious to know how you would judge me? I'm a straight male but I partake in an activity called pegging....and I have been condemned as a sinner by your kind and as a "gay but just don't know it yet" by them(the gay community). Just wondering, I will also be posting the same post in the the current forum with the member whining about being judged by your kind.

I thought above top secret was about denying ignorance, just saying....



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon


. . .

All comming from a book that was written by man, not God... I don't believe in the bible i believe in God....and he is not in that book, or any book found on this or any other planet.


Your view is not new by a long shot

Link


God is in us all...


God disagrees with you there too.

lol

you are on a roll, projecting God how you wish Him to be, instead of how He says He is.

That is called idolatry



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by stopjudgingplease
 


Denying ignorance only in some cases....when it comes to biblical discussions the damned book is taken as the absolute word written by God. Which in itself is ignorance...

there is no concencus on this subject nor will there ever be....



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Originally posted by Akragon


. . .

All comming from a book that was written by man, not God... I don't believe in the bible i believe in God....and he is not in that book, or any book found on this or any other planet.


Your view is not new by a long shot

Link


God is in us all...


God disagrees with you there too.

lol

you are on a roll, projecting God how you wish Him to be, instead of how He says He is.

That is called idolatry




Believe what you want man, God is in every single person, species, and living thing in the universe....He doesn't disagree with me....your bible disagrees with me, which again...is NOT God...or anything even close for that matter aside from one mans words.

Don't believe me, again i could care less. Follow your path my friend. Perhaps one day you'll understand God, but as it stands....sadly you don't....

And don't respond with some pathetic bible quotes....they mean nothing to me



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