The Search For Life. Part 2 – Are they here?..

One of the best compilations on this topic I have ever seen. Thank you very much, I actually just read through the whole thing. Most of this I knew about but it's great to put it all together for people just getting interested, or of course for those that don't have the time to do all this research themselves.

S+F

reply to post by Smell The Roses


Thanks.

Glad you enjoyed reading.

reply to post by Rising Against


Looking at the Venus links Venus would of started to lose its water around 4 billion years ago? If Venus is about 4.6 billion years old it wouldn't of had much time to evolve complex life much past multi-cellular organisms at best?

As a young planet, Venus was losing hydrogen rapidly to space. The oceans boiled off, and after some period of time, perhaps 600 million years, there was no surface water. Then the surface and the climate were very much in the state that we see today. AM: So, the water was lost around 4 billion years ago, at the end of the heavy bombardment period? DG: Yeah, perhaps around that time. source

Earths timeline of evolution (wiki)

Originally posted by Rising Against
I have to admit though, when I first made part 1, I was 100% a believer in AAT.
Now, I'm still a believer, I admit, but I'm more of a skeptic.

There is nothing wrong with that, because I see being a skeptic as a good quality.

Originally posted by Rising Against
I suppose all I really want is that undeniable evidence really - something I doubt I will get.

Don’t you think that that has in a way all to do with what you consider to be undeniable evidence?

Look for instance to this.

In part 2, “in the line of duty, chapter 11, the roots of debunking in America” of Leslie Kean’s marvelous book UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record is stated the following by Alexander Wendt and Raymond Duvall.

"It is one of the ironies of modern rule that it is far more acceptable today to affirm publicly one's belief in God, for whose existence there is no scientific evidence, than UFOs, the existence of which—whatever they might be—is physically documented."

And is that not how it really is?

Originally posted by Rising Against

Originally posted by spacevisitor
I really think that what is stated there is true, and that there is in my opinion pretty convincing existing historical information that supports that theory.

Out of nothing but curiosity, what "historical information" exactly does It for you?

"Historical information" such as this, and there is quite a lot of it.

Your post in part one about Alien Art.

The story of Quatzequatl.

Mayans
Within their culture they have legends of visiting Gods from outer space. In the last thousand years the being known as Quatzequatl the Great Feathered Serpent was a God who brought the teaching of peace to this part of the world and appeared as a white God with a beard. The drawings of him look almost identical to the drawings of the being known as Ea or Enki in the ancient Sumerian teachings.

afgen.com...

Vimanas of Ancient India
In the Vedic literature of India, there are many descriptions of flying machines that are generally called vimanas. These fall into two cate- gories: (l) manmade craft that resemble airplanes and fly with the aid of birdlike wings, and (2) unstreamlined structures that fly in a mysterious manner and are generally not made by human beings. The machines in category (l) are described mainly in medieval, secular Sanskrit works dealing with architecture, automata, military siege engines, and other mechanical contrivances.
Those in category (2) are described in ancient works such as the Rg Veda, the Maha-bha-rata, the Rama-yana, and the Pura-nas, and they have many features reminis- cent of UFOs.

www.ufoevidence.org...

Could the Ancients Fly? A Strange Connection
David Hatcher Childress, Atlantis Ring, Issue No. 10
Summary: Throughout history there have been many common myths and legends of flying machines or devices, the familiar flying carpets of ancient Arabia; Biblical figures such as Ezekiel and Solomon flying from place to place and the magical chariots, or Vimanas, of ancient India and China.

www.ufoevidence.org...

UFOs in the Bible: Ezekiel's Wheel, 593 BC

Summary: Of all the UFO accounts in the Bible, the one mentioned most often is Ezekiel's Wheel. One of the passages reads: "This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like chrysolite, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel." (Ezekiel 1:16) The following is a passage by passage analysis of Ezekiel chapter one that is based on the work of NASA engineer Josef Blumrich.

www.ufoevidence.org...

Ancient Astronauts

www.ufoevidence.org...

Skyfloating has also posted some marvelous threads about that all.

I use his words because he characterizes it in a much better way as I can do it.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Ancient accounts around the world speak – almost without exception – of “Sky People” and “Sky Gods” descending to planet earth, flying through the skies, coming from and returning to the stars.

Many accounts even specifically name the stars from which those “Gods” travelled to earth (Native Hawaiian legends for example claiming we are descendant from “Sky Gods” who came from the Pleiades).

It is from such worldwide concordance that the “Ancient Astronaut Theory” arose.

The theory is still rejected by large parts of global society because it puts most of our belief-systems to question.

Of Emperors and Sky Gods

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Of Flying Dragons and Metallic Discs

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Of Ancient Wars and Spacecraft

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sun wheels, fire chariots and winged discs

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Extraterrestrials in Judaism and Islam

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Book of Enoch on Extraterrestrials

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So there is a lot of information about it, and for me, I have no doubts whatsoever anymore about visiting Aliens in our history in their crafts we call today UFO’s and UAP’s.

reply to post by spacevisitor


As always, thanks for your post Space.
And apologies for the delay..

I have to admit, there is a hell of a lot of "information" out there providing reason to believe in AAT, whether It's all factual is a completely different thing though. (Not that I'm saying AAT is implausible or anything like that of course) Take what you brought up - the events from the bible as an example, much of it seemingly pointing towards an extraterrestrial conclusion, but at the same time, all very heavily interpretive.

I mean, something which means something today, might not mean the same from 10, 20, 50, 100, 1000 years ago. Do you know what I mean? You see, something which is seemingly one thing today may not have meant the same thing in a different time. Perhaps something completely different, maybe nothing at all.

The conclusion we come to could very well come from being influenced by our modern way of life and nothing more. And that doesn't won't always be correct despite seeming so.

Anyway, like I said before, I'm more a believer than a disbeliever in AAT if that make any sense, in fact, I'm much more of a believer, especially when considering what you mentioned in regard to the military and there involvement with sightings etc. (take Rendlesham forest with Charles Halt as an example). But, I still have my doubts admittedly.

And I'm looking forward to reading all those threads you linked to as well btw. Thanks for bringing them all together here! I wish I could give you more than one star.

Originally posted by Rising Against
I have to admit, there is a hell of a lot of "information" out there providing reason to believe in AAT, whether It's all factual is a completely different thing though.

Hello Rising Against, thanks for your reply and U2U, I must admit that your delay almost did give me also a headache.

Originally posted by Rising Against
(Not that I'm saying AAT is implausible or anything like that of course) Take what you brought up - the events from the bible as an example, much of it seemingly pointing towards an extraterrestrial conclusion, but at the same time, all very heavily interpretive.

The conclusion we come to could very well come from being influenced by our modern way of life and nothing more. And that doesn't won't always be correct despite seeming so.

Here are my thoughts about it my friend.
I agree with you that it is interpretive and that it couldn’t be correct despite seeming so, but on the other hand, look to it all in the light of the times we are in now, and wonder yourself the following.

What could be the reason, or how is it possible that those people back then, already did wrote so many detailed mind-blowing stories about spaceflight, gods from the sky, strange flying machines with remarkable capabilities, strange and very powerful weaponry and such, when all those things did become a reality [as our historians want us to believe] not earlier then the times we live in for some decades now.

We live today in the so called space age, and we have now some pretty advanced [in our perspective] space travel machines, all kind of flying machines and very strange and powerful weaponry and such to our disposal, which seems all almost normal to us. So how good it be then that so many of the similar things we have today where so normal to those people thousands of years back in our history?
The only answer I have for that is that because all those things were already used or seen being used, by Earth visiting extraterrestrials back then.

In the marvelous book from Leslie Kean, UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record, UFO’s/UAP’s or whatever they will be called, are described as follows.

(l) There exists in our skies, worldwide, a solid, physical phenomenon that appears to be under intelligent control and is capable of speeds, maneuverability, and luminosity beyond current known technology.

So, when I read that, and knowing for shore now that it is as it is stated there, what other than the ETH could it be then, that exists worldwide in our skies today.

I personally have no doubts about that whatsoever.

Well here's an interesting article in Journal of Cosmology, 2011, Vol 13,on what could be evidence of extra-terrestial life:

Dr. Hoover has discovered evidence of microfossils similar to Cyanobacteria, in freshly fractured slices of the interior surfaces of the Alais, Ivuna, and Orgueil CI1 carbonaceous meteorites. Based on Field Emission Scanning Electron Microscopy (FESEM) and other measures, Dr. Hoover has concluded they are indigenous to these meteors and are similar to trichomic cyanobacteria and other trichomic prokaryotes such as filamentous sulfur bacteria. He concludes these fossilized bacteria are not Earthly contaminants but are the fossilized remains of living organisms which lived in the parent bodies of these meteors, e.g. comets, moons, and other astral bodies. The implications are that life is everywhere, and that life on Earth may have come from other planets.

Fossils of Cyanobacteria in CI1 Carbonaceous Meteorites

It might not be little green men or greys, the implications of these findings may suggest that life can emerge in other places.

reply to post by spacevisitor


First off, thanks for your reply again! It’s so refreshing to actually have an intelligent debate over something instead of shouting matches.

Anyway, onto your reply.

Admittedly, I'm still not fully buying it to be perfectly honest. I mean, Yes what was wrote about thousands of years ago, in regards to space aliens, gods, beings, crafts etc etc. can mean they have visited here, but It doesn't necessarily mean that is the only possible conclusion. IMO.

Using your own argument - the argument being 'look at us today', I feel that we are replicating what they simply could've been doing. And that is quite simply put, looking into the future. Today we do this, and today we think about what the future may be like or what gadgets we may have, or what would be a good idea for making life easier and so on and so on...

For all we know, past civilizations did the same as we do today - they looked into the future, they had ideas about what would be good ideas and what would be beneficial etc. and they documented it in there own way.

It's possibly a far fetched idea, but is it any more far-fetched that the idea of a being from a whole other world coming here, landing, coming into contact with the inhabitants of the day, and then conveniently are no longer visible in today's world - the world where we'd be able to prove there existence by real documentation, not just convenient drawings.

I mean, Is it really far fetched to say people from past civilizations simply wrote stories? Or that's what we now interpret as real events?

Personally, I don't.

God, I really do need to be abducted I think.
It's probably the only way I'm going to fully commit to this and to truly believe they are here (despite that I'm more of a believer than the opposite still)

EDIT TO ADD: When I say they are here, I mean they were here. I'm a 99% believer in that they are here today. And because of this I agree, they very well could've been here thousands of years ago too. Admittedly.

I agree with you that it is interpretive and that it couldn’t be correct despite seeming so, but on the other hand, look to it all in the light of the times we are in now, and wonder yourself the following.

I just want to quickly clarify as well that I feel It may not be correct. Not that it couldn't.
I'm pretty much open to any possibility imaginable really. Reason being, I don't feel we know enough about our world and our universe to say "that's not possible", or "that can't happen" etc. etc.

reply to post by Kratos40


Yeah, I think I saw a thread about that on ATS earlier. Could be wrong of course. Anyway, It's interesting stuff no doubt, life - albeit the type as you say, we don't want - seems to be absolutely everywhere. Even in the most unexpected and impossible of places.

It's incredible people still believe we are completely alone here. It really is.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

First off, thanks for your reply again! It’s so refreshing to actually have an intelligent debate over something instead of shouting matches.

This is ATS at its finest in my opinion, I really enjoy it my friend.

Originally posted by Rising Against
Admittedly, I'm still not fully buying it to be perfectly honest. I mean, Yes what was wrote about thousands of years ago, in regards to space aliens, gods, beings, crafts etc etc. can mean they have visited here, but It doesn't necessarily mean that is the only possible conclusion. IMO.

I agree with you that it doesn't necessarily mean that it is the only possible conclusion, but I find it nevertheless the most convincing conclusion for me.

Originally posted by Rising Against
Using your own argument - the argument being 'look at us today', I feel that we are replicating what they simply could've been doing. And that is quite simply put, looking into the future. Today we do this, and today we think about what the future may be like or what gadgets we may have, or what would be a good idea for making life easier and so on and so on...

That is indeed another possibility, was it not, that as far as I see it correct, those stories are wrote in such a way as if all those things of where they speak do in fact actually happen or even did happen, and not as something they would expect could be happening in the future.

It is in the Mahabharata that we hear about Bhima who “flew with his vimana on an enormous ray which was as brilliant as the sun and made a noise like the thunder of a storm”. And in the same great ancient Indian epic we also hear about the great warrior Arjuna’s ascent to Indra’s heaven. Importantly, Arjuna is, we are told, a mortal. However, during the telling of his particular adventure we are told of his ascent to heaven in a car that travels upwards to the clouds with a noise like thunder. Whilst travelling to heaven Arjuna apparently also sees flying cars that have crashed and are out of action and other flying cars that are stationary, whilst others fly freely in the air.

Interestingly in the Mahabharata we also find information about the terrible weapons belonging to the ancient Indian Gods that, in the light of our present day knowledge, do sound uncannily like nuclear weapons. In his best-selling book According To The Evidence, Erich Von Daniken tells us how he found evidence of such terrible weapons held by Indian Gods in Book 8, Musala Parva:

The unknown weapon is radiant lightening, a devastating messenger of death, which turned all the relations of Vrishni and Andhaka to ashes. Their calcined bodies were unrecognisable. Those who escaped lost their hair and nails. Crockery broke without cause; birds turned white. In a very short time food was poisonous. The lightening subsided and became fine ash.

www.ufoevidence.org...

Originally posted by Rising Against
For all we know, past civilizations did the same as we do today - they looked into the future, they had ideas about what would be good ideas and what would be beneficial etc. and they documented it in their own way.

I do not doubt that past civilizations had ideas about what would be good ideas and what would be beneficial etc. and they documented it in their own way, but I wonder if they really did try to look into the future.
I am not saying that they did not do that, but I do not know that, but despite if they did, I cannot imagine myself that they were able of seeing so far in the future as is described in detail in all those stories.

Originally posted by Rising Against
It's possibly a far fetched idea, but is it any more far-fetched that the idea of a being from a whole other world coming here, landing, coming into contact with the inhabitants of the day, and then conveniently are no longer visible in today's world - the world where we'd be able to prove their existence by real documentation, not just convenient drawings.

I am 100% convinced as you are a 99% believer that beings from outside this world are present and sometimes visible in our today's world.

That there exist UFOs/UAPs in our skies, worldwide, as a solid, physical phenomenon that appears to be under intelligent control and is capable of speeds, maneuverability, and luminosity beyond current known technology is already proven.
But to connect the UFOs/UAPs with the ETH is as it seems still out of the question.
It does not have to mean that the beings that are here today, are the same beings from back then, it could have been others.

Originally posted by Rising Against
I mean, Is it really far fetched to say people from past civilizations simply wrote stories? Or that's what we now interpret as real events?

That is not far fetched at all, but I do not share that view, that’s all.

Originally posted by Rising Against
God, I really do need to be abducted I think.

It's probably the only way I'm going to fully commit to this and to truly believe they are here (despite that I'm more of a believer than the opposite still)

Only if I would be the lucky guy being abducted by the good and human looking guys and they would give me a grand tour and show me all the wonders in our solar system and beyond and bring me safely back again without extracting my sperm or sticking something in my nose hoping they let me remember only the wonders of the grand tour.

Originally posted by Rising Against
I don't feel we know enough about our world and our universe to say "that's not possible", or "that can't happen" etc. etc.

I fully agree with you here.

For anyone interested, I'm writing up the third installment now.

Originally posted by Rising Against
For anyone interested, I'm writing up the third installment now.

Hi Rising Against, you know I am interested, so I am really looking forward to see your third installment about this very interesting subject buddy.

reply to post by spacevisitor


Thanks Mate.

Hopefully we'll have genuine Alien visitation by the time I finish it though. I'll have something of real value to bring up and discuss in real detail then...

Originally posted by Rising Against
For anyone interested, I'm writing up the third installment now.

Grand

sign me up for a copy

reply to post by Versa

 

sign me up for a copy

I'll try not to make it "book length" like this thread.

Originally posted by Rising Against

I'll try not to make it "book length" like this thread.

lol it was a touch long, I like em long but with so much information in one thread I think it might make it difficult to get any conversation going about the specifics. My brain can only handle a small amount of information at a time with out losing some

Originally posted by Versa

Originally posted by Rising Against

I'll try not to make it "book length" like this thread.

lol it was a touch long, I like em long but with so much information in one thread I think it might make it difficult to get any conversation going about the specifics.

Agreed but as I always say: No point doing it, unless you try to do it right..

My brain can only handle a small amount of information at a time with out losing some

Ha! Mine too!

S & F for the amount of work in the OP and also the layout and logical presentation.

Far be it for me to criticise but due to the broad content it is difficult to pick specific points for debate and this is (unfortunately - if you know what I mean) exacerbated by the unbiased presentation. It is also material that most who have had an interest in the area will have covered in some detail at some other point but fair dues, you provide the links and hopefully food for thought for some.

Originally posted by chunder
Far be it for me to criticise but due to the broad content it is difficult to pick specific points for debate and this is (unfortunately - if you know what I mean) exacerbated by the unbiased presentation.

I have to agree with that point, it was very unbiased which is brilliant, but like you said it made it a bit difficult to debate (not that I'm much of a debater anyway

It is also material that most who have had an interest in the area will have covered in some detail at some other point but fair dues, you provide the links and hopefully food for thought for some.

For someone new on 'the scene' the thread is a fantastic overview and I've bookmarked it so I come back to it every now and again to re-read and ponder on.

reply to post by chunder

Far be it for me to criticise but due to the broad content it is difficult to pick specific points for debate and this is (unfortunately - if you know what I mean) exacerbated by the unbiased presentation. It is also material that most who have had an interest in the area will have covered in some detail at some other point but fair dues, you provide the links and hopefully food for thought for some.

Feel free to criticize btw. We're all here to learn after all, and to achieve learning criticism and input is sometimes needed.

That's a reason for posting this and my other threads also, I don't necessarily set out to cause debate or arguments or anything like that. I set out to learn about a topic of interest to me personally and at the same share what I've learnt for others to hopefully benefit by posting it on the boards.

In other words, I take posting of threads quite serious now, especially as there is a huge amount of people reading the boards right now.