reply to post by ipsedixit
I think they've been waiting for the day Mubarak would be gone so they could do just this. I'm not sure it's an attempt at "power projection", I
think it's more of a "we're gonna do this and see if anyone objects and I bet Israel will be the only one and screw them, anyway."
There's a new envelope and they want to see how far they can push it. After all, their home piece of water has had US (and other) warships in it for
as long as I've known about it. I only learned of Kuwait through a news report in the early '80s when there had been an attack on whichever US fleet
was stationed in the Gulf to escort the tankers. Now they want to do a little pushback.
If they were stupid enough to give Gadaffi's forces some NGS then they'd also be likely to find themselves targeted by a couple of Libyan pilots
sitting in Valetta at the moment.
"So sorry, Mr Iranian Ambassador, we don't know who let them take off like that. We'll be looking into it, I can assure you, but, they weren't our
jets, so íf we'd told them they had to stay on the tarmac we could have been percieved as thieves."
Airstrikes in Libya did not take place - Russian military (Breaking News!), page 14
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 05:00 AM by BRITWARRIOR
Originally posted by ipsedixit
reply to post by spikey
This business with the Iranians sending two warships to the Mediterranean is very interesting. Are the Iranians Russian proxies in this case? Undoubtedly.
Apparently!
They went to Syria for a training exercise and are now back in Iran that's the last i heard
Bit odd
EDIT!
I don't think this is worth of another thread so i'll throw it in here,but the news just in is...
Talks are under way to free three Dutch marines captured in Libya as they tried to evacuate foreign citizens, the Netherlands' defence ministry says.
www.bbc.co.uk...
edit on 3-3-2011 by BRITWARRIOR
because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 05:03 AM by gwynned
Can you say 'Wag the Dog?"
This is anecdotal evidence, so I realize it would be easy to discount what I'm about to say. BUT, a Canadian friend of mine is in Russia and was speaking to some Russian generals just back from Libya. I have no reason to think either of the parties would lie about such a thing. They cannot understand the news coverage because the cities are calm. Nothing is happening except a skirmish in an outlying area.
There's some discussion as well on this forum: www.cluesforum.info...&start=105
Again, the following from the forum is anecdotal, but I am now suspicious that this whole 'revolution' is a hoax.
This is a firsthand testimony of an Italian who has just returned from Tripoli (LIBYA's capital) and writes to the director of an Italian newspaper (the right wing "Il Giornale") of his personal experience of what is going on down there. I tend to privilege the credibility of such a reader's comment rather than what the 'info' the mainstream media hammers into the minds of hapless TV viewers.
I come from Tripoli and I tell you that the newspapers tell you a sack of lies
Dear director,
My name is Paolo Pazzini, I live in Tripoli and I have just returned (to Italy) yesterday, February 24th.
Our company has contracts with Libya and that's why I've lived there, in the centre of Tripoli. I would like to back up the statements of the Italian ambassador Schioppa: in Tripoli, the situation is calm. until yesterday everyone was working, and the bombings of the people are pure propaganda, and so are the mass graves - pure propaganda. In fact, the Tripoli cemetery located by the seaside and the photos shown by the Italian (and other) newspapers are normal pictures of burials in that cemetery.
The Italian newspapers and other western media are reporting heaps of lies with the backing of Libyan elements living abroad, ousted by the country. I am myself working within the military, and I can assure you that not one department of the army, or the navy, or the aviation have been mobilitated.
There are fights in the Bengasi zone and in other eastern cities between the Libyan police (not the Army) and armed gangs. The two ships that, they say, would have deserted are just lies and pure propaganda. Even the Maltese armed forces have denied ("Times" of Malta) that any Libyan ship has docked in Malta. There have been only two desertions of aircrafts whose pilots have taken the opportunity to ask for political asylum, but this has nothing to do with (mass) army forces deserting. The uprising started in Bengasi, as I have heard from military circles, and was fomented by Egyptians armed to their teeth who entered Libya illegally and took power in Bengasi with Libyan opposition elements. Auto caravans have been stopped around Tripoli, filled with Egyptians and loaded with western-produced armaments and explosives. And there is no way of knowing who financed these armed Egyptian gangs.
Let us be aware that this propaganda that is being fed to the world (with the backing of the Italian opposition who does it for internal electoral advantages, with enormous losses for the Italian system) is a transparent game, i.e. cut off Libya from Italy, from ENI, Impreglio, Finmeccanica and thousands of other industries (we are talking about contracts worth milions of Euros) to take hold of the Libyan oil reserves, their infrastructures and their strategic position. In fact, today, the British, the French, the Americans, the Germans, etc...etc...are already talking about sending "military vessels" with "humanitarian aid", or in other words, enact a military occupation of the country. The game is clear (transparent).
I salute you cordially
Paolo Pazzini
But perhaps the below will convince you there WERE airstrikes.
video.search.yahoo.com...&fr=vmn
This is anecdotal evidence, so I realize it would be easy to discount what I'm about to say. BUT, a Canadian friend of mine is in Russia and was speaking to some Russian generals just back from Libya. I have no reason to think either of the parties would lie about such a thing. They cannot understand the news coverage because the cities are calm. Nothing is happening except a skirmish in an outlying area.
There's some discussion as well on this forum: www.cluesforum.info...&start=105
Again, the following from the forum is anecdotal, but I am now suspicious that this whole 'revolution' is a hoax.
This is a firsthand testimony of an Italian who has just returned from Tripoli (LIBYA's capital) and writes to the director of an Italian newspaper (the right wing "Il Giornale") of his personal experience of what is going on down there. I tend to privilege the credibility of such a reader's comment rather than what the 'info' the mainstream media hammers into the minds of hapless TV viewers.
I come from Tripoli and I tell you that the newspapers tell you a sack of lies
Dear director,
My name is Paolo Pazzini, I live in Tripoli and I have just returned (to Italy) yesterday, February 24th.
Our company has contracts with Libya and that's why I've lived there, in the centre of Tripoli. I would like to back up the statements of the Italian ambassador Schioppa: in Tripoli, the situation is calm. until yesterday everyone was working, and the bombings of the people are pure propaganda, and so are the mass graves - pure propaganda. In fact, the Tripoli cemetery located by the seaside and the photos shown by the Italian (and other) newspapers are normal pictures of burials in that cemetery.
The Italian newspapers and other western media are reporting heaps of lies with the backing of Libyan elements living abroad, ousted by the country. I am myself working within the military, and I can assure you that not one department of the army, or the navy, or the aviation have been mobilitated.
There are fights in the Bengasi zone and in other eastern cities between the Libyan police (not the Army) and armed gangs. The two ships that, they say, would have deserted are just lies and pure propaganda. Even the Maltese armed forces have denied ("Times" of Malta) that any Libyan ship has docked in Malta. There have been only two desertions of aircrafts whose pilots have taken the opportunity to ask for political asylum, but this has nothing to do with (mass) army forces deserting. The uprising started in Bengasi, as I have heard from military circles, and was fomented by Egyptians armed to their teeth who entered Libya illegally and took power in Bengasi with Libyan opposition elements. Auto caravans have been stopped around Tripoli, filled with Egyptians and loaded with western-produced armaments and explosives. And there is no way of knowing who financed these armed Egyptian gangs.
Let us be aware that this propaganda that is being fed to the world (with the backing of the Italian opposition who does it for internal electoral advantages, with enormous losses for the Italian system) is a transparent game, i.e. cut off Libya from Italy, from ENI, Impreglio, Finmeccanica and thousands of other industries (we are talking about contracts worth milions of Euros) to take hold of the Libyan oil reserves, their infrastructures and their strategic position. In fact, today, the British, the French, the Americans, the Germans, etc...etc...are already talking about sending "military vessels" with "humanitarian aid", or in other words, enact a military occupation of the country. The game is clear (transparent).
I salute you cordially
Paolo Pazzini
But perhaps the below will convince you there WERE airstrikes.
video.search.yahoo.com...&fr=vmn
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 05:20 AM by Pr0t0
Check out this footage from BBC News. One jet dropping bombs in a generic desert area... importantly - missing everyone. Is this truly Libya, or some
wasteland. Are these really Libyan 'rebels' or actors paid by the BBC to release 'proof' of airstrikes against Libyans?
www.bbc.co.uk...
IMO, if this was a real airstike, one or more of the vehicles would have been destroyed and the reporter and cameraman would not stand so calmly looking on - notice he isn't wearing protective gear like usual war reporters have to. And why are they so fa\r from any identifiable buildings. This could beNew Mexico, or Iraq, Khazakstan... but I'm betting it's Saudi. Not Libya. No chance.
This reeks of misinformation. I think Russia are right. Gadhafi has already said if western companies leave he will bring in Russian and Chinese drilling companie, so he's at no loss. This really could be the spark. Shame on our governments for staging more lies to take us into yet another illegal war. Shame, and the gallows.
But, Russia and China won't sit back this time. WW3 will begin in Africa. It's so obvious, we don't care about western Africa at all, there's little infrastructure to damage, so what better place to begin the bombing?
www.bbc.co.uk...
IMO, if this was a real airstike, one or more of the vehicles would have been destroyed and the reporter and cameraman would not stand so calmly looking on - notice he isn't wearing protective gear like usual war reporters have to. And why are they so fa\r from any identifiable buildings. This could beNew Mexico, or Iraq, Khazakstan... but I'm betting it's Saudi. Not Libya. No chance.
This reeks of misinformation. I think Russia are right. Gadhafi has already said if western companies leave he will bring in Russian and Chinese drilling companie, so he's at no loss. This really could be the spark. Shame on our governments for staging more lies to take us into yet another illegal war. Shame, and the gallows.
But, Russia and China won't sit back this time. WW3 will begin in Africa. It's so obvious, we don't care about western Africa at all, there's little infrastructure to damage, so what better place to begin the bombing?
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 05:24 AM by EarthOccupant
Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR
Originally posted by ipsedixit
reply to post by spikey
This business with the Iranians sending two warships to the Mediterranean is very interesting. Are the Iranians Russian proxies in this case? Undoubtedly.
Apparently!
They went to Syria for a training exercise and are now back in Iran that's the last i heard
Bit odd
EDIT!
I don't think this is worth of another thread so i'll throw it in here,but the news just in is...
3 Dutch marines captured by Gaddafi's troops after landing on a lynx helo on rescue operations
I wasn't even aware of any dutch navel vessels in the area?edit on 3-3-2011 by BRITWARRIOR because: (no reason given)
In the Area? We are laying with the HMS Tromp in front of the Libean Coast for a whole week already, I cannot tell about the submarines.
Edit: Although we are a very small country, you would be surprised where our militairy hangs out around the world.
Why do you think Royal DUTCH Shell is the largest oil company in the world?
edit on 3-3-2011 by EarthOccupant because: (no reason
given)
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 05:38 AM by gwynned
Originally posted by Pr0t0
Check out this footage from BBC News. One jet dropping bombs in a generic desert area... importantly - missing everyone. Is this truly Libya, or some wasteland. Are these really Libyan 'rebels' or actors paid by the BBC to release 'proof' of airstrikes against Libyans?
www.bbc.co.uk...
IMO, if this was a real airstike, one or more of the vehicles would have been destroyed and the reporter and cameraman would not stand so calmly looking on - notice he isn't wearing protective gear like usual war reporters have to. And why are they so fa\r from any identifiable buildings. This could beNew Mexico, or Iraq, Khazakstan... but I'm betting it's Saudi. Not Libya. No chance.
This reeks of misinformation. I think Russia are right. Gadhafi has already said if western companies leave he will bring in Russian and Chinese drilling companie, so he's at no loss. This really could be the spark. Shame on our governments for staging more lies to take us into yet another illegal war. Shame, and the gallows.
But, Russia and China won't sit back this time. WW3 will begin in Africa. It's so obvious, we don't care about western Africa at all, there's little infrastructure to damage, so what better place to begin the bombing?
OMG This is one of the funniest videos I've ever seen. HOW is that British reporter there on the ground with the rebels who seem like college kids with guns at spring break. The whole tone of it is very funny don't you think? Maybe one or two people would like Western intervention? In fact the bomb dropped didn't even explode! NOTING about this entire video seemed in any way real. In fact it seems so unreal it almost has to be a joke. Kinda like this:
video.search.yahoo.com...;_ylt=A0oGdWn_Z25NF_IA4jZXNyoA?ei=UTF-8&p=libya%20rebel&type=vmn3_0vmnt&fr2=tab-web&fr=vmn
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 05:44 AM by excelents
Reminds me of the end 3 minutes of a Spitting Image episode back in 1986.
Every Bomb You Drop - Sting / Spitting Image
They're all in there.
Every Bomb You Drop - Sting / Spitting Image
They're all in there.
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 05:45 AM by Pr0t0
reply to post by gwynned
Actually, they've changed the video in that link! Surprise, surprise. Still, you're right. How many times would they have asked the 'rebels' to drive up and down that same road for more footage? The same vehicle passes the camera at least 4 times going the same direction.
I'll go hunt for the original.
Actually, they've changed the video in that link! Surprise, surprise. Still, you're right. How many times would they have asked the 'rebels' to drive up and down that same road for more footage? The same vehicle passes the camera at least 4 times going the same direction.
I'll go hunt for the original.
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 05:58 AM by BRITWARRIOR
reply to post by EarthOccupant
I'm aware there was a few other nations Navy's in the area assisting just not the HNLMS Tromp, i guess the pirates are having high times right now
Lovely ship
I'm aware there was a few other nations Navy's in the area assisting just not the HNLMS Tromp, i guess the pirates are having high times right now
Lovely ship
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 05:58 AM by Pr0t0
english.aljazeera.net...
Same story from Al Jazeera. Another reporter with no vest (@1:20), showing the same supposed Libyan jets dropping bombs a few hundred metres from anyone.
Same story from Al Jazeera. Another reporter with no vest (@1:20), showing the same supposed Libyan jets dropping bombs a few hundred metres from anyone.
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 06:12 AM by sapien82
reply to post by Pr0t0
I cant get access to this video it has been blocked
Internet explorer cant open the website operation aborted ! ( maybe just my browser though ) the page comes up then the error and click OK it closes
LIVE on bbc , US defence secretary stated , that the no fly zone , would begin with an attack on libyan air defenses , however this would require more than one aircraft carrier in order to carry this out !
So to impose the no fly zone , the US and allies will all out attack a soverign nation , which until a ew days ago was part of the UNSC .
If this is correct, and there have been no bombings by loyal gadaffi pilots , then this is a flase flag , in order to invade , same S**T different theatre . Again the US and allies are planning this , to go ahead like Iraq , to oust another dictator opposed to US foreign policy and western political views
That was great just seen a video of a ground unit in libya with AA gun firing indiscrimnately into the air , when no planes were flying overhead ! totally pathetic
I cant get access to this video it has been blocked
Internet explorer cant open the website operation aborted ! ( maybe just my browser though ) the page comes up then the error and click OK it closes
LIVE on bbc , US defence secretary stated , that the no fly zone , would begin with an attack on libyan air defenses , however this would require more than one aircraft carrier in order to carry this out !
So to impose the no fly zone , the US and allies will all out attack a soverign nation , which until a ew days ago was part of the UNSC .
If this is correct, and there have been no bombings by loyal gadaffi pilots , then this is a flase flag , in order to invade , same S**T different theatre . Again the US and allies are planning this , to go ahead like Iraq , to oust another dictator opposed to US foreign policy and western political views
edit on 3-3-2011 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)
That was great just seen a video of a ground unit in libya with AA gun firing indiscrimnately into the air , when no planes were flying overhead ! totally pathetic
edit on 3-3-2011 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 07:02 AM by Pr0t0
www.hindustantimes.com...
This is the whole reason 'we' want to remove Gadhafi, and why Russia, China, India etc will not want him to leave. This is the truth. Everything else cannot be trusted. But the fact remains this is US/UK vs. Russia/China, yet again. We never agree, so lets use those 1550 nukes we've whittled down to to destroy each other. It's going to happen anyway. If you can't play nice, don't play at all.
This is the whole reason 'we' want to remove Gadhafi, and why Russia, China, India etc will not want him to leave. This is the truth. Everything else cannot be trusted. But the fact remains this is US/UK vs. Russia/China, yet again. We never agree, so lets use those 1550 nukes we've whittled down to to destroy each other. It's going to happen anyway. If you can't play nice, don't play at all.
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 08:15 AM by sapien82
reply to post by Pr0t0
An american political writer Bill Blum has been advocating for years since the coup in Libya that Gadaffi had overthrown the royal family , that he was showing the US they cant take control of the soverign nation and that they had no power there. Ever since then the US have vilified him and tried to overthrow him in many ways .
An american political writer Bill Blum has been advocating for years since the coup in Libya that Gadaffi had overthrown the royal family , that he was showing the US they cant take control of the soverign nation and that they had no power there. Ever since then the US have vilified him and tried to overthrow him in many ways .
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 08:46 AM by tommyjo
reply to post by BRITWARRIOR
Yes, definitely in the hoax bin. You can see that it has brought out all the fake footage gurus. The lengths that some of those that believe media and governments will go is unbelievable. Remember the Australian forces finding hidden Iraqi MiG-25s at an airbase during 2003? The 'believers' even went to the lengths to claim that the footage was staged in Kazakhstan. Some people will believe anything is faked!
forum.pakistanidefence.com...
news.webshots.com...
TJ
Yes, definitely in the hoax bin. You can see that it has brought out all the fake footage gurus. The lengths that some of those that believe media and governments will go is unbelievable. Remember the Australian forces finding hidden Iraqi MiG-25s at an airbase during 2003? The 'believers' even went to the lengths to claim that the footage was staged in Kazakhstan. Some people will believe anything is faked!
forum.pakistanidefence.com...
news.webshots.com...
TJ
reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 09:13 AM by tommyjo
reply to post by Hot_Wings
Hot_Wings wrote
Where have you been? The Mirage F.1s that flew into Malta were carrying Matra F1 unguided rocket pods. Take a close look. The frangible nose cone is intact and the pod shows the tail end with the rockets in place. Malta had to ask for outside assistance in order to make the rocket pods safe. UK and French engineers cooperated to make the pods and rockets safe.
Close-up of pod on defecting Libyan Mirage F.1. Note the inside pylon with the ring at the rear hanging down. Something was on that pylon and jettisoned before landing. It could have been fuel tanks or bombs. Perhaps the pilot didn't trust the fusing on the weapons on that pylon and jettisoned them in the sea?
www.airplane-pictures.net...
The two aircraft, serials 502 and 508, landing in Malta with their Matra F.1 pods. Note the frangible nose cone is intact meaning unfired.
cdn-www.airliners.net...
cdn-www.airliners.net...
TJ
Hot_Wings wrote
Orders I might add would have been impossible given that I saw no ordinance on their aircraft in the photos taken when they landed.
Where have you been? The Mirage F.1s that flew into Malta were carrying Matra F1 unguided rocket pods. Take a close look. The frangible nose cone is intact and the pod shows the tail end with the rockets in place. Malta had to ask for outside assistance in order to make the rocket pods safe. UK and French engineers cooperated to make the pods and rockets safe.
Close-up of pod on defecting Libyan Mirage F.1. Note the inside pylon with the ring at the rear hanging down. Something was on that pylon and jettisoned before landing. It could have been fuel tanks or bombs. Perhaps the pilot didn't trust the fusing on the weapons on that pylon and jettisoned them in the sea?
www.airplane-pictures.net...
The two aircraft, serials 502 and 508, landing in Malta with their Matra F.1 pods. Note the frangible nose cone is intact meaning unfired.
cdn-www.airliners.net...
cdn-www.airliners.net...
TJ
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