UFO Battle South France, from Marseilles to Genoa, 1608

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posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:05 PM
I would be curious about the source. This seems to be in Italian, at that time, the Italian language was very different, an Italian has a hard time to read the original of Dantes Heavenly commedy (or whatever it translates to in English). So this was French and has been translated into Italian?

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:07 PM

Originally posted by AmatuerSkyWatcher

Eh what? have you not seen the pictures? If they are not UFO's, what are they? It's not the fact that it's old that gives it credence, it's the fact these pictures and the accounts were drawn up long before the invention of any flying machine and pop culture got hold of the UFO phenomenon!

Well if not invented, the idea of flying machines existed at least 100 years before this alleged incident.

Perhaps you've heard of this guy.. He conceived of copters, parachutes, and winged aircraft. And he was Italian too.

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:13 PM
reply to post by simon_alex0327

The thing is with history, is you are supposed to have a source to go along with the relevant material, if you are quoting an account. As far as I can see, there is no source for these quotes, and looks like baeless conjecture/down right lies I am afraid.

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:14 PM
reply to post by PhotonEffect

Nope, never heard of him. If you could show me some of his schematics for flying saucers with no visible means of mechanical instrumentation (ala the OP), I will concede you have a point.
edit on 2-3-2011 by AmatuerSkyWatcher because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:18 PM
reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher

Didn't think so.

edit to add-

the only point (or clarification) I'm trying to make is that people of the time could have very well been aware of flying machines thanks to Da Vinci. Since he was Italian and some of these alleged sightings took place there, it's entirely possible for people in the area to have known about his concepts.

Also, re: the drawing used in the OP... do we know where and when it originated from?
edit on 2-3-2011 by PhotonEffect because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:33 PM
reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher

Well, not being around in 329 BC.... I cannot quote him directly and ask for a written statement.
Its a story/myth... like a lot of unexplained things that happend early in history... no smoke without fire I say!

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:36 PM
reply to post by simon_alex0327

Not really, this story should appear in the writings of the historians that documented Alexanders conquests. As far as I know, none cite this event I am afraid.

(edit: I should also add that all of the documentation of Alexanders conquests were at best second hand accounts but more likely third or fourth hand accounts. None of the original documentation written by his personal historian/biographer has survived or been found as of yet).
edit on 2-3-2011 by AmatuerSkyWatcher because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:37 PM

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by zorgon

Well the French never could shoot straight..

But that's odd..I wonder what the two aliens were doing for hours..
Nice find, I like the old ones..s&f..

I can tell you what they were doing.


posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:43 PM

Originally posted by PhotonEffect

Also, re: the drawing used in the OP... do we know where and when it originated from?
edit on 2-3-2011 by PhotonEffect because: (no reason given)

The event is sourced on the first page, as for the image, I am trying to find the source for that.

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:56 PM
reply to post by zorgon

Interesting Zorgon-
You always seem to find the good ones...

I guess the main issue I have with it is why this isn't a more prevalent story. For one, the sources are a bit questionable in my opinion. Might not mean anything but for me it's a red flag

The other thing is, for all intents and purposes there was must've been an all out war against these things - "800 rounds from their cannons"- yet no real record other than what you posted seems to exist.

It's said that these sightings occurred from Marseilles, France to Genova, Italy which is a fairly large distance of southern coast. I'd have to imagine that there were quite a number of witnesses to these events, considering not only the number of cities involved but also the barrage of cannon fire that was used (in Nice I suppose?)....

I guess I just figured this event would've been more thoroughly documented.
edit on 2-3-2011 by PhotonEffect because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 10:06 PM
reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher

Then if none are available... all we have is heresay... exactly the point I made.

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 10:23 PM
Thank you Zorgon for presenting this "ancient" stuff. But we must have forgotten what was discovered on the the Far Side of the Moon. The Japanese government never responds to my emails, no matter how many alias I use and how many computers I log on. Heck, I've even used an Argentinian computer.

Don't forget what Apollo 18 and 19 found.

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 10:44 PM
reply to post by simon_alex0327

And hearsay is good for what exactly? Hearsay that is 2500 years old is even worse!

BTW Zorgon, I have looked for the source of the picture presented in the OP of the Genoese soldiers shooting cannonballs at what looks like saucers, but it is apparent that the picture did not originate with the account (which was originally just text). I conclude that the picture is someone elses take on the description laid out in the text. As to the age of that picture, I have absolutely no idea (it could have been made a week after the event, or it could have been made last week).

However, the Nuremburg wood carving and description is 100% authentic.
edit on 2-3-2011 by AmatuerSkyWatcher because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 10:58 PM
Seriously it's only Zorgon's threads that make me crawl back to ATS and post things.

I would have to train the following ideas about what is discussed in this thread:

1) Everything was a hoax.
a) It was a modern hoax.
b) It was an old hoax dating back to the era it allegedly happened.

2) It was real. There were aliens involved.

3) It was real, there were no aliens but demonic entities playing a show.

Answering my own set of questions:
1) We don;t care if it was, case dismissed.
a) Same.
b) Who would put up such a hoax? From where would they get the information about air fleets, opposing factions and aerial battles with disintegrating debris as to leave no technological evidence as to not breach some type of a Prime directive.

2) Why would opposing teams of aliens fight it out so close to human habitats, that were of course major trade routes and cultural centers, so that this event would get as much public exposure as possible? What would be the benefit of displaying such a show to an non technologically advanced civilization as a witness? Wouldn't the mere possibilities of such events occurring with Mankind as a witness also a severe breach of the law of a supposed Prime Directive, therefore should't any benevolent entities evolved had already solved the problem of hostile aliens be coming too close to comfort with human civilization? Therefore very few or none at all would be the evidence of aliens and their politics in general for humanity to witness.

3) Why would demonic entities, reveal themselves hoaxing themselves as alien species, urging humans to think about spectacular new sciences, technological wonders and alternative means of warfare at the given era?

The only real questions that has a merit and should be considered is questions identified as 1b and question 3.
Because it would make much more sense and whether we like it or not, it would have much more practical connections with our current reality if specifically those two questions were answered.

The possible answer in question 3 would be that the foul entities would have to make such occasional shows as to usher Mankind in to the perils of technological evolution. We can witness today widespread destruction of the environment, hunger and general societal imbalance because we have ushered in a technological era without forward thinking, planing and the necessary levels of the much needed wisdom.
The possible answer of the question 1b would be that some elect few, would devise a scheme of how to usher Mankind in to the perils of the technological evolution that would lead to the mess we have today. This type of answer in its turn generates two more significant questions.

A) How the elect few would know where they would be ushering mankind with their tricks?
B) From where did they get their ideas of what and how to show it to Mankind?

Answers A and B to be answered demand that a power greater than the collective powers of the elect few gave them the idea of what to do and how to do it.

Most possible identity of such a power with such capacity to entertain such machinations would be a foul one.

So there you have it...

No aliens but something else! Or simply a modern hoax!

Props to Zorgon for the thread!
edit on 2-3-2011 by spacebot because: later additions

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:21 PM
The first UFO pic/ 1870 -

"Back in 1870 a 'stereo' photograph was taken of the skies over Mt. Washington, New Hampshire and when the image was revealed, it contained a cigar-shaped object and since the only flying machines of the time were balloons, which this was not, the photograph had the distinction of becoming the world's first photograph taken of a UFO."

Stereogram. Mount Washington, NH

Wiki page on this

edit on 2-3-2011 by grizzle2 because: Change quotation marks inside quote to apostrophes
edit on 2-3-2011 by grizzle2 because: additional link

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:30 PM
800 shots, and us homo homo sapiens are wondering why the aliens won't just knock by and say hi in the open, imagine how many bullets they will get as welcome gifts from these primitive homo homo sapiens

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:37 PM

Originally posted by zorgon
Not much to go on. I had a few others but never saw this one before either.

Couple other famous ones that were recorded

Nuremberg Germany UFO Battle April 4, 1561

April 4, 1561 at dawn over Nuremberg, Germany - Woodcutting

One of the earliest of documented sightings of aerial phenomena took place on April 4, 1561 at dawn over Nuremberg, Germany. What was described as a war in the heavens, with a wide variety of craft ranging from spheres to spear-like cylinders to crosses and "plates". The sky was apparently filled with the machines, clashing in battle for well over an hour. The battle was such that a winner was perceived as well. Spheroid UFOs were seen emerging from cylindrical 'motherships'. At the conclusion of the battle, it seems a magnificent, black, spear-like super-ship of some kind came upon the scene. An ancient woodcut (click image to view full-size picture) was created by Hans Glaser to document the event. A second woodcut was created by an unknown artist (see below) that depicts the same event.

The woodcut shows two people apparently witnessing the event. Hundreds of oddly shaped and colorful objects fill the sky above. The woodcut also seems to indicate that two of the objects may have crashed to the ground (bottom right in the above picture).

It began at dawn, as dozens, if not hundreds, of crosses, globes and tubes fought each other above the city. It ended an hour later, when "the globes in the small and large rods flew into the sun," and several of the other objects crashed to earth and vanished in a thick cloud of smoke. According to the Nuremberg Gazette, the "dreadful apparition" filled the morning sky with "cylindrical shapes from which emerged black, red, orange and blue-white spheres that darted about." Between the spheres, there were "crosses with the color of blood." (i.e. red crosses) This "frightful spectacle" was witnessed by "numerous men and women." Afterwards, a "black, spear-like object" appeared.

The author of the Gazette warned its readers:

The God-fearing will by no means discard these signs, but will take it to heart as a warning of their merciful Annunciation with St. Emidius Father in heaven, will mend their lives and faithfully beg God, that he avert His wrath, including the well-deserved punishment, on us, so that we may, temporarily here and perpetually there, live as His children.


Basle, Switzerland August 7, 1566

August 7, 1566, at dawn, Basle, Switzerland - Woodcutting

A similar reporting occurred just five years later in Basle Switzerland. On August 7, 1566, at dawn, many citizens of Basle (Switzerland), frightened, saw during several hours the black spheres involved in a formidable aerial battle, invading the sky of their city:

The city's gazette recorded:

At the time when the sun rose, one saw many large black balls which moved at high speed in the air towards the sun, then made half-turns, banging one against the others as if they were fighting a battle out a combat, a great number of them became red and igneous, thereafter they were consumed and died out.

It should be pointed out that the descriptions and woodcuts are attempts by artists nearly 500 years ago, to depict an event that they potentially could not comprehend. Some have pointed out that the woodcuts and descriptions of the event sound very much like a modern day "dogfight" between planes of opposing forces. The black circles in the woodcut look very similar to explosions in the sky as photographed by World War II reporters. In addition, the cross shaped vehicles look very similar to the profile of a World War II fighter ascending in a steep climb. As such, some have proposed that the events witnessed were actually old World War II battles and that some sort of slip in space/time allowed the 16th century town to witness an event that would not occur for another 400 years.

To date, the only original source we've discovered that recorded this incident is the 1958 book, A Modern Myth: things seen in the skies (Ein moderner Mythus Von Dingen, die am Himmel gesehen werden).


Pretty cool although I must say I get a bit skeptical when I see the sun drawn with a face like a 3 yr old did. But other than that I wish I could have been there.

posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Kratos40
The Japanese government never responds to my emails, no matter how many alias I use

Yeah what's up with that? Just as bad as NASA

posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 12:17 AM
reply to post by zorgon

Excellent find, you should be proud
best alien related thread I've ever seen here & the most convincing. You sir have grown to become one of my favourite thread contributors here,
Thank you very much for sharing S+F

edit on 3/3/11 by B.Morrison because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 02:39 AM
reply to post by zorgon

The three machines stop near the fortress and descend to just above the water where they cause the water to boil and emit a red-orange vapor.

". In Nice, the inhabitants saw three strange luminous vessels which evolve at high speed above the city.

The inhabitants of Nice saw three strange luminous vessels moving at high speed above the city. The vessels stopped close to a fortress then went down into the sea causing the water to boil and release a reddish-colored vapor.
Thats all i got ta say !

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