Are They Spraying Anything?

reply to post by ParkerCramer


???

WHO? Phage is my "boss"??

(...or, was it someone else? Whomever, I demand a raise! Or, oops....I guess I'd have to get on a payroll first....then, after that, I will demand BACK PAY for all the gratis work I've done, to date! Stat!!)


Oh.....what were you chuckling at, again? My suggestion that aluminum beverage cans might help contaminate you?? Strange, you tossing that off, as you did:

Low pH can Lead to Metallic Contamination

.....In addition to eroding your teeth, beverages with low pH levels can erode the insides of metallic containers and lead to aluminum and other forms of metallic poisoning. According to Marijan Seruga and Damir Hasenay of the Faculty of Food Technology, "Because soft drinks are relatively acidic media, there is a possibility that due to leaching (corrosion) [aluminum] from the can wall, some migration of [aluminum] into soft drinks occurs."

Read more: Reasons for Testing the PH of Beverages | eHow.com www.ehow.com...

Originally posted by niceguybob
Laff My ASS off. Phage is one of the best debaters on ATS period.
I'd put him up against anybody...cept maybe Zargon or Skeptic himself.

Know what a debate is? Phage does.

I'd bet on him anytime you guys. Irrelevent the topic. He's THAT good.

Really? That's why he refused to answer my questions in both threads? I've already outlined many of his underhanded techniques and he so thoughtfully illustrated them very well in his own words.

His discussion techniques I've seen are school yard bullying, cherry picking, and refusing to answer my questions and assertions.

I'm still waiting phage, oh that's right... you out right refused to answer my questions already. Bullies don't like it when tables are turned so they walk away in a huff. Stop the bullying and start answering. I'm waiting.

Great debating style

reply to post by backinblack


I see what you are saying. But the only way to get a sample that truly shows untainted air would be to take that sample at altitude. Anything taken at ground level might be factory exhaust, or vehicle emissions, or multitudes of other things. I don't believe in chemtrails, but an air sample taken at altitude showing something other than aircraft emissions sure would make me stop and think. As of right now, the chemtrail crowd seems to fear science because it keeps proving them incorrect.

reply to post by backinblack


What??

But these tests were constructed to check for Al in the AIR....

They were??

Please enlighten everyone, as to how that was accomplished! Specifically, in that film.

reply to post by pianopraze

His discussion techniques I've seen are school yard bullying, cherry picking, and refusing to answer my questions and assertions.

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why the OP compared results for concentrations of Aluminum (Al) with results for Aluminum Oxide (Al2O3) and whether that would effect the claims...

reply to post by ParkerCramer


You seem to have the opinion that any Al is bad. What amount of Al do you feel is "okay"? How did you reach that number? Or is it none? How would that be possible?

The reality is this: there is Al in just about every shovelful of soil you dig. Everytime you drive down a dusty road, you are aerosolizing some of that same Al into the air we all breathe. Every time it rains and the water cycle cycles, Al is being put into the water supply. Any farming, construction, industy, or mining operation releases Al into the air we all breathe. Any a jet at flight altitude would expel? Not very much at all, and not settled to the air we breathe for days, if ever.
What do people do who have "environmental allergies" (assuming this even exists, which I personally doubt) do to block all the toxic fumes? Wrap all surfaces in aluminum foil. What are the cans we drink out of made from? Aluminum. What do we wrap our food in? Aluminum. What is the $2000 professional pots and pans set I have made from? Aluminum. Get it yet? Al is impossible to escape on the planet. There is Al everywhere, including lots of use by choice.
You have fallen for the propaganda technique used in the film. They give you a number and act as if it is somehow high without giving you anything to reference it. Then you don't research it yourself, and accept it as gospel. It's why this thread is here.....to show just that point about their presentation.
If 0% is impossible, 3.8% is not that much, is it?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by backinblack

 

What??

But these tests were constructed to check for Al in the AIR....

They were??
Please enlighten everyone, as to how that was accomplished! Specifically, in that film.

What, this from ATS's local hero aviation expert??
Did you notice where the samples were taken from?
Ponds, Snow melt, Rain water....
Now where do you suggest most of the sample matter comes from?

And some say you're smart...

reply to post by backinblack

The movie made no mention of air testing.

Out of 18 test results, one was for an "Air Filter Wipe".

What does an air filter collect? Dust.
What was the aluminum level of that dust? 1010 mg/kg.
What was the percentage of aluminum in that dust? 0.10%.

Quick, call the EPA. Maybe that's why they didn't mention it in the movie.

reply to post by backinblack

The elemental form of aluminum does not exist in nature. It only exists in the form of compounds. Aluminum oxides are the most common. Aluminum oxide is what the "chemtrail" crowd claims is being sprayed.

reply to post by Phage


No, no, no. Planes have to fly in air patterns. You need HIGH clearance to fly outside of a pattern, even if it's a mile off course.

Planes in a grid and in X's are not flying in regular approach or departure patterns. Sorry Mr. Wizard Phage, but in this aspect, you are wrong. I know quite a bit about this stuff.

Chemtrails are real my friend and there are some who are just about to expose this to the world. I know, it's such a claim isn't it? This is One Nation Under: Chemtrails. Watch for it!

Originally posted by OleMB
I get the part where you don't believe in chemtrails, but why is it so god damn important for you to make sure that we don't believe in it? Like contrails and chemtrails, can't we co-exist?

Here's my reason why they can't co-exist:

Because it insults me, and it is bull#.

I work for a national aviation regulator - not in the America's or Europe, never part of NATO, & "we" didn't take part in the conquest of Iraq. I've been an aircraft mechanic since I was 16 - did a 5 year apprenticeship, worked for a couple of airlines & a 3rd party maintenance provider.

If chemtrails exist from civil airliners flying every day then I have to be part of the conspiracy - I have worked on aircraft that have made persistant contrails which the hoax says are somethingn else - and I'm not. So it is personlally insulting for me.

Also eth sheer stupidity and illogic of it offends me as a human being - I want to think we are more intelligent than this......despite plenty of evidence to the contrary. I hope that one day we may be, and so I fight stupidity where I can.

I can't answer for others.

reply to post by OneNationUnder

Well, you got me there. Or maybe not. US air traffic:

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by backinblack

 

The movie made no mention of air testing.
Out of 18 test results, one was for an "Air Filter Wipe".
What does an air filter collect? Dust.
What was the aluminum level of that dust? 1010 mg/kg.
What was the percentage of aluminum in that dust? 0.10%.
Quick, call the EPA. Maybe that's why they didn't mention it in the movie.

edit on 3/2/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Oh I see...
Rain and snow form on the ground where you live...
Kinda strange but I'll go with that..

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by ParkerCramer

 

???

WHO? Phage is my "boss"??

(...or, was it someone else? Whomever, I demand a raise! Or, oops....I guess I'd have to get on a payroll first....then, after that, I will demand BACK PAY for all the gratis work I've done, to date! Stat!!)

Oh.....what were you chuckling at, again? My suggestion that aluminum beverage cans might help contaminate you?? Strange, you tossing that off, as you did:

Low pH can Lead to Metallic Contamination

.....In addition to eroding your teeth, beverages with low pH levels can erode the insides of metallic containers and lead to aluminum and other forms of metallic poisoning. According to Marijan Seruga and Damir Hasenay of the Faculty of Food Technology, "Because soft drinks are relatively acidic media, there is a possibility that due to leaching (corrosion) [aluminum] from the can wall, some migration of [aluminum] into soft drinks occurs."

Read more: Reasons for Testing the PH of Beverages | eHow.com www.ehow.com...

Nice deflection, but, the question was............What percentage of aluminum is passed on to the consumer from drinking out of an aluminum can, WE all know its not safe, what we are trying to determine is if it compares to the 3.8% in question.

Regards,
Parker

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by backinblack

 

The elemental form of aluminum does not exist in nature. It only exists in the form of compounds. Aluminum oxides are the most common. Aluminum oxide is what the "chemtrail" crowd claims is being sprayed.

edit on 3/2/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

I think the whole point is that yes, aluminum does NOT exist in nature..
So how did it appear in the test results if that is what they found..

I'm more than open to you proving the results were for aluminum oxide but that's not how I'm reading the report..

reply to post by OneNationUnder


Someone needs to look at a route map. Sorry, routes in the air do cross. Of course, not at the same time, but there is all kinds of technology that avoids that.
And there is wind up there, which pushes things around. So a plane leaving a contrail flies the route, the wind shifts the trail a bit, then next plane leaves a contrail, the wind shifts the trail a bit.....and you get the roughly parallel lines. Add in planes flying in a different direction, and you get "grid patterns". But they are all just planes flying their assigned routes.
"Chemtrail" myth does not account for wind very often. This is one case where it does not.
It looks like a cross to you, but like an "x" to someone miles away. Add in a plane flying in another direction, and you will get triangles.
It's not a pattern it's more than one plane leaving contrails flying at different times in different directions.
I really wish the "chemtrailer" in charge would just admit claiming patterns is just stupid. Because it is. Planes fly to every point of the compass and when they leave contrails, so will the contrails.

Originally posted by RicoMarston
reply to post by crompton

 

great point! I'm 24 years young. When I was a kid, we didn't have a computer or internet radio or HULU or tivo. Once our favorite t.v show was over, we actually went outside to PLAY. I'm betting the folks on here who go on and on about how persistent contrails are normal and you're dumb if you think otherwise didn't get outdoors much as kids and spend waaaay too much time "researching" their debunkery on wikipedia and google.

nope - your attempt to assasinate the character of everyone who you disagree with doesn't fit me sorry.

In the 60's I'd be on the local beach in summer & there was 1 jet route directly overhead - the contails would often go from horizon to horizon and still be there when the jet went back the other way an hour or 2 later.

I remember it distinctly because jets (B737-200's) were only recently introduced and were the latest greatest technological marvel, and you noticed them every time. there were only a couple of handfuls of those jets in the country in the late 60's and 70's, and a few years later I was working on them as a mechanic and there was nothing on them by way of any spray gear for anything.

Originally posted by Phage
The movie What in the World are the Spraying has created quite a stir with the “chemtrail” crowd. Besides the usual talk about how “normal” contrails cannot persist and spread, much is made of some testing done in the Lake Shasta area of Northern California. Some scary numbers are discussed. Surely these high levels of aluminum (and barium and strontium) must be falling 6 or 7 miles from those “chemtrails” crossing the sky overhead.

Let’s look at the test results used in the movie.
ihost.nu...

Let’s start with the soil samples so frighteningly high in aluminum. The soil under Frances Mangel's house tested at 13,600 mg/k!. Brookings, Oregon; 38,000 mg/kg! Big numbers! 38,000 somethings must be a lot! But is it?

38,000 mg/kg is 38 grams per kilogram. That's 38 grams per thousand grams. That's 3.8%. Is 3.8% a lot? Let’s check. According the chart in the book linked below, the percentage of aluminum oxide in California soils ranged from 1.63 to 32.42. That translates to between 16,300 and 324,200 mg/kg. Samples from various locations in North America ranged from 3.26% to 14.16% (32,600 to 141,600 mg/kg). Oh, I should point out that these tests were done prior to 1920. Before jets. Before “chemtrails”. 3.8% doesn't seem to be a big deal.
Soil Science

What about that sample from the snows of Mt. Shasta? Mt. Shasta is a pretty big mountain. They don’t say where they collected the snow (in this test) and I doubt they climbed to the top of the mountain for their sample but let's continue. The test shows 368 μg/L for aluminum. That’s micrograms per liter of water. That is the equivalent of 0.368 mg/L (milligrams per liter). Aluminum is not considered toxic by the EPA so they have no enforceable standards for maximum allowable levels in drinking water. They do have Secondary levels though. These levels do not represent health concerns but possible “cosmetic” or “aesthetic” effects. Those levels are set at from 0.05 to 0.20 mg/L, so if you drank the melted snow sample it might have tasted funny. California sets the Maximum Contaminant Level for aluminum in drinking water at 1.0 mg/L. California says you could use snow melt from Mt. Shasta as your water supply (as far as the aluminum level is concerned).

But where did the aluminum in the (supposedly) pristine snow sample come from? What about the aluminum in the other water samples? Remember that book from 1920? A chart in that book shows that the smaller the soil particles are, the higher the percentage of aluminum they contain. What does that have to do with anything? Dust. Dust blowing in the wind. The finer the dust, the more aluminum. Still, some of those numbers seem awfully high don’t they? Well, yes. Because the samples were taken from the bottom of ponds where dust carried by the wind and dirt carried by surface runoff collect. Where water evaporates and concentrations increase. And that’s the other misleading aspect of the presentation of the test results in the movie. There is nothing to compare the levels to. All that is given is the amount of aluminum compared to the amount of water. It has been shown that aluminum can make up a significant percentage of “pristine” soils. In others words, compared to the amount of iron found in soil, aluminum is generally quite plentiful. But compared to silicon, it runs a close to distant second. So where in those water samples are the silicon levels? Where are the iron levels. We can’t compare the water tests to the soil tests because they measure the amount of aluminum compared to a bunch of other stuff in the dirt. All the water samples show is the amount of aluminum compared to…water. Where’s the other stuff? Without those numbers there is nothing to compare to. There is no way of knowing if the aluminum levels are higher than they should be, much less a way to connect the aluminum to “chemtrails”. The same thing applies to the strontium and barium found. Both are naturally occurring components of dirt.

So. Are the makers of the video ignorant in disregarding these issues? Are they stupid? Or are they being deliberately deceptive?

edit on 3/1/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

THE CHEMTRAILS ARE THERE FOR ONLY 4 POSSIBLE LOGICAL REASONS:

1.) - To protect us from solar flares
2.) - To obscure the sky i.e.- planet x, ufo, etc...
3.) - To enhance weather modification
4.) - Depopulate / Eugenics.

reply to post by AnnunakiRageTheChosenPeop


Anything else that is brought up in this thread is useless banter.
Don't get caught out there arguing fringe ideas.

reply to post by backinblack

You think soil testing is a valid air test?

You think testing pond sludge is a valid air test?
You think testing for 2 or three substances in rain water is a valid test to show "high levels" of contamination? How can it be when other "safe" contaminants were not tested for? We have no way of knowing how much "bad" stuff there was in comparison to the harmless stuff. The water tests (all of them) are pointless. They show nothing except that there is aluminum in dust.

The only thing approaching an air test tells us there was a very small amount of aluminum in the sample taken.