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Are They Spraying Anything?

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posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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This post is so funny it is tragic.
I have spent my entire life (45 years) doing outdoor pursuits, fishing, cycling, photography etc and do not have any memories or photographic evidence from the 1970s or 80s of this phenomenon.
I can only assume that the 10 persona shills are actively trying to debunk the whole chem-trail story as this is their mission for the time being.
How anyone can say that persistent chem-trails are "normal" shows that the never bothered looking at the sky as a child or are only in their teens now.
Sunny days used to be normal but now any chance of a wholly sunny day is blotted out with thin ribbons of plane exhaust, looking at this logically does this mean that 21st century planes are less efficient than 1960s and 70s ones. Surely if this is vapour we are seeing then an awful lot of heat is being wasted from the planes engines, even more than super-sonic planes such as Concorde which most definitely did not leave "persistent contrails".
Any jet engine engineers care to comment on why this might be?




posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 08:46 AM
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I really don't think that they were trying to manufacture evidence to further sales. How much money are these guys really making? they may be ignorant, or felt that they needed more of a slam-dunk argument to really push their agenda. but it seems to me like everyone in the film is genuine in their concern about what really is happening. I doubt very much that there is a conspiracy to make people believe in chemtrails. However underhanded the tactic may be, if it raises awareness and leads to someone doing something to stop the awful, ugly pollution from jets then I'm all for it! think of how many youtube docs come out with nefarious information stretched to fit the argument? The fact is, some contrails are persistent, it's ugly and it's pollution at the VERY LEAST. At least three days a week, Grand Rapids, MI has a beautiful blue sky RUINED by persistent contrails. Even if there is 0% dubious activity happening... they're still ugly, right?! I'd like to see the clean blue sky on cloudless days, please!



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by crompton
 


great point! I'm 24 years young. When I was a kid, we didn't have a computer or internet radio or HULU or tivo. Once our favorite t.v show was over, we actually went outside to PLAY. I'm betting the folks on here who go on and on about how persistent contrails are normal and you're dumb if you think otherwise didn't get outdoors much as kids and spend waaaay too much time "researching" their debunkery on wikipedia and google.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:06 AM
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I'm almost 29 years old , and I NEVER saw these "trails" persist until I got to hig-school about 15 years ago!
I was always "in nature" as a kid somewhere in north Romania in a village on the border with Ukraine !
Never saw these trails persist !
And by the way : today I had some bussines and stayed outdoors more than usual !
At noon there was a VERY CLEAN SKY AND NICE WARMING SUN!!!
Imediately as planes began to criss-cross the sky it became "foggy" and the sun was almost gone under that sh.ty barrier of clouds!

I'm sorry I didn't had anything to film a CLEAR CASE OF CONTRAIL AND CHEMTRAIL :
ONE PLANE had a very small contrail , and another a little more in front of the other one LEFT A BIG MILKY TRAIL THAT AFTER ABOUT HALF AN HOUR TURNED INTO A FOGG and blocked the sun!
how's that possible?
I wish these dissinf agents here just die in big pains for what they are doing here (disinf on mass scale!) .

edit on 2-3-2011 by leaualorin because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:22 AM
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You say they took the samples from the bottom of a pond, but earlier in your post you say they do not say where they are taken from. I am not quite understanding how you got that information. If earlier you say they do not say where they are obtained.
edit on 2-3-2011 by Crumbles because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 09:41 AM
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Bout all I want to say is you guys and gals have your right to believe in there is no such thing as chemtrails just as """we have the right to believe""" there are chemtrails.

When you non-believers go out do your deep breathing exercises if you want..... I know I'm not.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by crompton
 


Just becaus you didn't notice, it doesn't mean others didn't. Persistent contrails have been around for a long time. For a long time it has been known what they are.

From 1919:

The second German sighting occurred on May 9, 1919, when a pilot flying over Berlin at about 26,000 feet noticed the generation of a cloud stream that extended for about forty miles behind his plane. This stream eventually spread out to form a cloud layer that was about 3,000 feet thick. The pilot saw a similar phenomenon two days later.
www.accessmylibrary.com...

From 1940:

A few months later I witnessed the Battle of Britain taking place over my head in the July, August and September 1940. Being in SE London we had a grandstand view of the titanic struggle going on day aftr day with the intricate patterns of the contrails the most evident witness to the dog fights taking place.
www.bbc.co.uk... Short contrails do not produce intricate patterns.

1944:

So an airplane at great heights leaves behind it, stretching for endless miles, a visible "wake" composed of ice particles so tiny that they do not fall as snow but remain suspended in the air.
Source

From 1947:

Photo taken by Jerry Cole, combat aerialphotographer in the 390th Bomb Group at Framlingham Air Base in England. He is looking for a print from the original negative he shot around January 1944 or before. It shows contrails of P-47's crossing each other in the background and a B-17 in the foreground.


scoutbird.tripod.com...


From 1968:

Daily, for example, hundreds of jet planes crisscross the nation or great parts of it, often leaving fluffy contrails of water vapor, manmade clouds, as a signature of their passage.

Some contrails soon dissapate. Others turn into or are soon followed by high cirruse clouds that can and do influence the earth's heat balance with the sun.

Source





From 1970:

The spreading out of jet contrails into extensive cirrus sheets is a familiar sight. Often, when persistent conditions exist from 25,000 to 40,000ft, several long contrails increase in number and gradually merge into an almost solid interlaced sheet.

journals.ametsoc.org...


Henry Wadsworth Hinkle, hired man down on the farm with Uncle Clarence and Aunt Martha, looked skyward a few days ago and was awed by the multiplicity of "vapor trails," as he called them. That's the old name. Now they are called contrails-short for condensation trails-resulting from the condensation of heat flowing from high-flying jet engines.

Source


A 43-year-old novice sailor said today that he followed jet contrails over the Atlantic to help him navigate after his sextant was smashed six days out of Pymouth, England.
Source He didn't follow jets, he followed contrails. You can't follow a short contrail.

1972:

Then there is the matter of cloudiness. The familiar contrails often left by high-flying planes might persist for a long time under some conditions.
Source


From 1973:

Often, after several clear days, high flying jets begin leaving condensation trails in the sky. These "contrails" are the result of the condensation of water vapor that accompanies engine combustion at high altitudes.
Source


He occasionally looked out the window at the earth and noted geographical locations. "We're coming over Europe and I've never seen so many jet plane contrails in my life," he reported
Source


Shore was no naïf; he recognized the irony of many of his images. One of the cleverest is "U.S. 97, South of Klamath Falls, Oregon, July 21, 1973," which depicts a desolate spot of road where a billboard displays a snowcapped-mountain scene — against actual mountains in the distance. The billboard image seems to emerge from the land itself. Along with a cattle gate and a sky with blown-out contrails, the billboard is a tired and shabby advertisement for America itself.
www.pitch.com... Contrails have to be around for a while to be "blown-out".

Then there's this 1965 Outer Limits episode.


Yes, there are more contrails now than there were 30 years ago. There are more planes up there.



edit on 3/2/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by Crumbles
 


The description of each sample is on each report.
The location is not provided for most of the samples.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Very pathetic. I see you're up to all of your old tactics. How was your vacation Phage? Yep, we all need a break sometimes from spreading gratuitous lies and disinformation. Sometimes our conscience gets to us when we know that we are misleading the general population using outdated facts and very poor reasoning and observation skills. (We'll get back to the conscience thing in a minute.)

Grumble grumble, speaking on behalf of Phage here...
"Er, um...how are they going to poison us with elements that have always existed here? That's preposterous."

Very weak argument, in fact, a "straw man" argument as you consistently call the arguments of others. So weak that my first grade teacher just rolled over in her grave, oh, and your friend who backed you up by supporting that all you need is a high school education to spew the facts that you spew...he's right. With a high school education, you can almost look smart against the people who have dedicated themselves to a much higher standard of KNOWLEDGE. You can fool all of your followers who have far less education than yourself, but you can't fool those who reach for higher standards when studying ALL aspects of an argument. Yours is marginal, or, the standard for those who won't look beyond their own noses to find the truth. You ever notice how all your people come in and say, "Thanks Phage, for providing us the facts...thanks for setting these lunatics straight" Then you get a thumbs up??? Well, those are the people who do no research for themselves (BLIND FOLLOWERS) and then wait for you to provide for them what they were already waiting to hear. Must be nice to be SO NEEDED.

But, lets get back to the FACTS.
Hey Phage, just like Aluminum, Cyanide always existed on earth too. Would you like a sip? By the way, you never answered a very pertinent question by another poster. "Would you be comfortable DRINKING water that has over 60 times the recommended dosage of aluminum?" Hell, maybe you've already been drinking so that you could develop some sort of tolerance, but, it is evident that it has impaired your penchant towards "common sense." Its apparent that you're definitely serving the Kool-Aid, if not in massive doses for your "followers" who were simply LOST in the months of your absence. "Where's Phage?" "WE NEED HIM" "Our worlds are falling apart without superman selling us his mind numbing Kryptonite."

You can fool them with all of the nonsense that you spew, and apparently, its very easy for them to swallow. However, some of us have EYES, and can visibly see that something is incorrect with the sky. And for every piece of nonsense you provide us with, the UN has already provided amazing research into this phenomenon that dictates its existence. I am watching the floodgates open Phage, and you only have 10 fingers. Keep plugging away though..."You're really making a difference in the minds of the lost!!!" Way to keep the world safe for Democracy!

I shouldn't even have to remind you of this, but, the UN just passed resolutions prohibiting certain aerosols that are used for the purposes of Geoengineering. Big word there. "Geoengineering." Silly stuff...probably doesn't exist...right? You probably have never heard of it because you're too busy telling the world about the scientifically based evidence for the existence of "contrails" which you know nothing about. You have no degree in Meteorology, Geoengineering, or CHEMISTRY for that matter, and I am more than willing to suspect, the only degree you have is in feeding the same stale information which is out of date, useless, and misleading except for those who cling to your threads as if their personal realities depended on it. If you feel good regurgitating lies and parroting information from 1933 to the cult-like followers that you have, then by all means, continue. But, as it were, some of us have what is known as a conscience. Hey, don't forget that the word "Science" are the last seven letters of conscience. KNOW WHAT I MEAN PHAGE? You've got the "CON" part down, I'm just waiting for you to address the science.

Aerosols...Now, where did the U.N. get that word from? And how would the UN expect that we would deliver such aerosols in the sky? Those silly people with all of that scientific evidence amassed from researchers who have real degrees MUST ALL BE WRONG. And Phage, being nothing more than an armchair specialist who spends his time moonlighting on ATS must be CORRECT!!! Silly us. Yep, I guess I'll just ignore the decades of research put into by the back breaking labor of real scientists to believe our "self made expert" here on ATS.

And what about those aerosols again? Wait, wait...Do they have homing pigeons up there spraying Lysol? Is that what the UN illegalized recently? Lets see how that looks, shall we Phage?
"The UN resolves to illegalize homing pigeons responsible for spraying aerosols on a global scale because we know damn well it couldn't be from aircraft." That's silly conspiracy stuff...LOL.

Maybe its all those packs of birds that just recently died in mid air that were the deliverers of those aerosol payloads that the UN was describing. Maybe they were getting high on all of that aluminum oxide which is "Perfectly safe in any dose for the masses to injest...just like cyanide!" LOL. Well, as you see, it was quite toxic to even the birds delivering those payloads, because Phage, you and I BOTH KNOW it couldn't be from the airplanes spraying chemicals that linger in the air known as "Chem..." excuse me, "CONTRAILS." I wouldn't want to sound factually incorrect according to level-headed skeptics like yourself.

So Phage...How do you suppose those aerosols got up there if not "SPRAYED" by airliners? Do you have a well thought out, factual presentation for that question? Are you going to go to your " How to Debunk common sense with stupidity" book? Or Debunking for Dummies???

By the way, how much did they pay you for your soul? Or were you just a volunteer???

Not that I should have to provide ANYTHING, but, I will...
www.nowpublic.com...

For all those who want REAL INFORMATION WITH SOURCES to research, check this wikipedia article. And some will say "Wikipedia???" Really??? Check the sources and then come back with that nonsense.
en.wikipedia.org...

Patents:
www.google.com...

Combustible compositions for generating aerosols, particularly suitable for cloud modification and weather control and aerosolization process, Consiglio Nazionale delle Richerche, U.S. Patent RE29,142www.google.com...

www.google.com...

Other info:
www.lexum.umontreal.ca...
www.history.com...

William Cohen addresses Weather Warfare: Of course, "Phage and company" will have more reliable information than the former secretary of defense. Phage gets briefings from the White House all the time.
www.fas.org...

Nikola Tesla: Earthquake Machine
www.excludedmiddle.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.govtrack.us...

I showed you mine, now, you show me yours...By the way, I HAVE TONS MORE info where that came from. I haven't seen a bit of information yet that you provided Phage that counteracts all of that. There's more recorded evidence for our argument for the existence of "Chemtrails" than against it. Its time to grow up and check that ego at the door.

It was a pleasure schooling you, and before you say a SINGLE word to me, I want you to provide me with EVIDENCE that you have a meteorology, physics and Chemistry degree. If not, then what you say is conjecture and not worth listening to.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by observe50
 


In order to stay in the realm of the topic, which is specifically the claims from that "doc"-umentary.

The analyses were flawed, as is clearly proven by the OP. The sample test results did NOT indicate any levels of contamination above and beyond what is to be expected....however, the producers of the "doc"-umentary intentionally hinted, and suggested otherwise.

They were being disingenuous on purpose. What should that indicate, to you?

It is logical and reasonable, therefore, to call in to question ANY and ALL claims made by the "chem"-trail crowd, n'est pas??

We see that those behind that "film" felt it was necessary to fudge the interpretation of the results, to foist their (inaccurate) beliefs. Ergo, one could logically presume that the entire thing IS a hoax.

As to your post above, and its vagueness....well, unless and until there is actual, undeniable evidence to contrary?

"Chem"-trails are still a hoax. Period.

There is no, absolutely no evidence that says otherwise. And, hearsay "beliefs" of "what I remember as a child" are not valid, sorry. For reasons that many have already outlined (besides potential for memory errors).....the high-bypass turbofan jet engine technology changes, over the last 15 years, or so, are a major factor.

This is a manufactured hoax, per the very definition of hoax. Elaborate, yes. But, built on a house of cards, and dependent on a vast gap of knowledge, experience and scientific acumen in order to remain viable.

Learn, study, learn....and wipe away the ignorance of the specific scientific disciplines, in order to have a more thorough understanding of how this hoax has been perpetuated upon the gullible......



edit on 2 March 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Very interesting Phage. I have been on the fence about this Chemtrail issue for quite some time now. I have been waiting for the perfect opportunity to comment on this topic. Now that you have provided it for me I will continue.

A lot of people have been saying things like: " I never remember seeing these things when I was a kid, just blue skies and only transient contrails."

Like most of the fine folks on ATS I'm all about the truth. If it damages my ego a wee bit and dismantles any of my current belief systems then so be it! I'd rather remain aligned with the truth than live in blissful ignorance.

This brings me to my recent discovery. I was watching a Twilight Zone episode the other day on You Tube. It was a remake of sorts and was aired in the 1985/1986 season. This was part two of the episode called "Welcome to Winfield." The thing that caught my attention was at the 8:56 mark in the video.There was a shot of the sky and It appeared to show a classic "chemtrail" that everyone seems to be up in arms about nowadays! There is another great shot at 13:13 as well.

This raises some questions. I thought these spraying operations started in the 90's? Are there spraying operations at all, or is this just a case of mass hysteria peppered with paranoia? I'm neither pro nor anti chemtrail, like I stated above, I'm for the truth.

Maybe someone on this site with expertise on how to embed you tube videos could post the video in question. You will need to type in: The Twilight Zone: Welcome to Winfield part 2 to bring it up. It would be greatly appreciated.

I think this needs to be discussed as it will bring another level of debate to the whole chemtrail issue. Thank You, CosmicWind73.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by CapnCaveman
 


I agree.

I've seen it only once, the whole sky looks like a chessboard. It's NOT normal air traffic, and nobody can convince me otherwise. What it is, I don't know.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by Qcuailon
 

No.

My argument is that the movie misrepresents the test results. My argument is that the claimed high levels of aluminum are not high at all. My argument is that the makers of the moving are lying. My argument is that they are lying because they have no real evidence that geoengineering is occurring and had to make something up.

The snow melt was not "60 times the recommended dosage". Would I feel comfortable drinking snow melt? Not on a regular basis, even though California says the aluminum content is safe.

The UN did not pass "resolutions prohibiting certain aerosols that are used for the purposes of Geoengineering". The moratorium on geo-engineering makes no mention of aerosols. Here it is, knock yourself out.
www.cbd.int...
But do you know what aerosols are?

Aerosols are either emitted as particles in the atmosphere (primary aerosol), or formed as secondary products of atmospheric reactions (secondary aerosol). For more information, see Air pollution emissions. Despite uncertainty, estimates indicate that natural sources are much more important on a global scale. The local situation can, on the other hand, be dominated by anthropogenic (human-made) sources. Dust and sand storms can introduce large masses of particles in the atmosphere. Other natural sources include the sea as seasalt particles are formed by evaporation of small seawater droplets and emissions from volcanoes.

www.eoearth.org...

The moratorium includes "any technologies that deliberately reduce solar insolation". There are proposals for giant sunshades in space to control global warming. I suppose that because the UN resolution would seem to include them, it means that they must be actually up there, just like "chemtrails" are.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:08 AM
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A thousand stars.

Funny how the line between belief and science it's always true research. And funnier how this normally comes in huge amount from one single trench of this chemtrail-contrail war.



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by cosmicwind73
 

Yes a good catch, at 8:56 and 13:13.

Here's an Outer Limits episode from 1965
www.youtube.com...

edit on 3/2/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Qcuailon
 

No.

My argument is that the movie misrepresents the test results. My argument is that the claimed high levels of aluminum are not high at all. My argument is that the makers of the moving are lying. My argument is that they are lying because they have no real evidence that geoengineering is occurring and had to make something up.

The snow melt was not "60 times the recommended dosage". Would I feel comfortable drinking snow melt? Not on a regular basis, even though California says the aluminum content is safe.

The UN did not pass "resolutions prohibiting certain aerosols that are used for the purposes of Geoengineering". The moratorium on geo-engineering makes no mention of aerosols. Here it is, knock yourself out.
www.cbd.int...
But do you know what aerosols are?

Aerosols are either emitted as particles in the atmosphere (primary aerosol), or formed as secondary products of atmospheric reactions (secondary aerosol). For more information, see Air pollution emissions. Despite uncertainty, estimates indicate that natural sources are much more important on a global scale. The local situation can, on the other hand, be dominated by anthropogenic (human-made) sources. Dust and sand storms can introduce large masses of particles in the atmosphere. Other natural sources include the sea as seasalt particles are formed by evaporation of small seawater droplets and emissions from volcanoes.

www.eoearth.org...

The moratorium includes "any technologies that deliberately reduce solar insolation". There are proposals for giant sunshades in space to control global warming. I suppose that because the UN resolution would seem to include them, it means that they must be actually up there, just like "chemtrails" are.






Well, I read your post, along with all the replys.................It seems that the basis for your opinion is that the amounts 3.8% aluminum is very minute and not harmful...........................

I think we can all agree that the skin is the largest organ in the body, and you should never put anything on your skin that you would not put in your mouth, so, with that in mind.............................

I would like to invite you and WeedWhacker to my house for dinner, the menu will be filet mignon and lobster tail, of course yours and WeedWhackers portions will include 3.8% ALUMINUM................

Now, according to you that amount is of no significence and should be harmless..........................

Please let me know when your schedule permits?????????????????

Regards,
Parker



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by CapnCaveman
 


Hell yeah, youre from Humbolt too?



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Thanks a bunch John Lithgow, err...I mean Phage!
I'll have to check out the Outer Limits episode as well, frickin love that show! I seem to recall a lot of other movies and T.V. episodes of the 70's and 80's which show "chemtrails". Charlies Angels comes to mind, and I know that was aired in the 70's.

I think I should take it upon myself to learn the art of embedding videos. It can't be that hard for my lazy as# to figure out can it?



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



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