Are They Spraying Anything?

reply to post by Phage

Curious as I am finding there is lots of information on geo-engineering by the UN, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) and other extremely credible sources. I have only started looking at this and I find lots of credible evidence. Her is the CFR paper on geo-engineering:
CFR website: Geo-engineering workshop info

They admit that it is about global governance too:

Workshop on Unilateral Planetary-Scale Geoengineering: Geoengineering and the Challenge of Global Governance

Here is there solution:

Stratospheric aerosols
Adding more of the right kind of fine particles to the stratosphere can increase the amount of sunlight that is reflected back into space.

CFR source PDF

Why would all threads on this be moved to highly speculative when you have it from the horses mouth? Aliens are a lot more "highly speculative" than this!

reply to post by pianopraze

No. (off topic, btw)
That is not their "solution" it is one proposal for global warming mitigation. Here what the briefing for the meeting says:

focus on the question of strategies for constraining and shapin geoengineering. We will explore formal, legal strategies as well as informal efforts to create norms that could govern testing and deployment of geoengineering systems and their possible undesirable consequences. We will probe whether it is possible to limit the use of geoengineering to circumstances of collective action by the international community in the face of true global emergencies and what might happen when there are disputes over when the emergency “trigger” should be pulled.

They were talking about ways to control such measures and how to determine when and if they should be taken.

About the specific proposal:

There are a variety of strategies, such as injecting light-reflecting particles into the stratosphere, that might be used to modify the Earth’s atmosphere-ocean system in an attempt to slow or reverse global warming. All of these "geoengineering" strategies involve great uncertainty and carry significant risks. They may not work as expected, imposing large unintended consequences on the climate system. While offsetting warming, most strategies are likely to leave other impacts unchecked, such as acidification of the ocean, the destruction of coral reefs, and changes in composition of terrestrial ecosystems. Yet, despite uncertain and very negative potential consequences, geoengineering might be needed to avert or reverse some dramatic change in the climate system, such as several meters of sea level rise that could impose disaster on hundreds of millions of people.

www.cfr.org...

It is, in part, this sort of discussion which led to the UN resolution regarding geoengineering. BTW, this was discussed here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by pianopraze

 

No. (off topic, btw)
That is not their "solution" it is one proposal for global warming mitigation. Here what the briefing for the meeting says:

focus on the question of strategies for constraining and shapin geoengineering. We will explore formal, legal strategies as well as informal efforts to create norms that could govern testing and deployment of geoengineering systems and their possible undesirable consequences. We will probe whether it is possible to limit the use of geoengineering to circumstances of collective action by the international community in the face of true global emergencies and what might happen when there are disputes over when the emergency “trigger” should be pulled.

They were talking about ways to control such measures and how to determine when and if they should be taken.

About the specific proposal:

There are a variety of strategies, such as injecting light-reflecting particles into the stratosphere, that might be used to modify the Earth’s atmosphere-ocean system in an attempt to slow or reverse global warming. All of these "geoengineering" strategies involve great uncertainty and carry significant risks. They may not work as expected, imposing large unintended consequences on the climate system. While offsetting warming, most strategies are likely to leave other impacts unchecked, such as acidification of the ocean, the destruction of coral reefs, and changes in composition of terrestrial ecosystems. Yet, despite uncertain and very negative potential consequences, geoengineering might be needed to avert or reverse some dramatic change in the climate system, such as several meters of sea level rise that could impose disaster on hundreds of millions of people.

www.cfr.org...

It is, in part, this sort of discussion which led to the UN resolution regarding geoengineering. BTW, this was discussed here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 3/1/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

This is most definitely NOT off topic. The whole topic of this thread is the movie which is about geo-engineering and this info is presented in the movie so don't eve TRY to play the off-topic card.

Yes! 35:50-36:10 the senator is talking about how they are going to do this geo-engineering to create a "New World Order" and starve millions of americans. Senate hearings, CFR documents not good enough for you? This is tied in with the CFR eugenics. The globalist are evil and they want to kill you, me, everyone else on this planet. To me this is the most credible aspect of geo-engineering. It falls in line with their stated and published goals.
Here is our CFR "science tsar" Holdren co-authored this paper with Erlich on eugenics (and I just showed a quote from the movie so it is not off topic):

In 1969, writing with Paul R. Ehrlich, Holdren claimed that, "if the population control measures are not initiated immediately, and effectively, all the technology man can bring to bear will not fend off the misery to come."[9] In 1973 Holdren encouraged a decline in fertility to well below replacement in the United States, because "210 million now is too many and 280 million in 2040 is likely to be much too many"[10]. Currently, the U.S. population is 306,900,000[11]. In 1977 he co-authored (with Paul R. Ehrlich and Anne H. Ehrlich) Ecoscience[12], which discussed the possible role of a "planetary regime" in enforcing population control. Also discussed was the possibility of adding a sterilant to drinking water; "Adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods is a suggestion that seems to horrify people more than most proposals for involuntary fertility control. Indeed, this would pose some very difficult political, legal, and social questions, to say nothing of the technical problems. No such sterilant exists today, nor does one appear to be under development. To be acceptable, such a substance would have to meet some rather stiff requirements: it must be uniformly effective, despite widely varying doses received by individuals, and despite varying degrees of fertility and sensitivity among individuals; it must be free of dangerous or unpleasant side effects; and it must have no effect on members of the opposite sex, children, old people, pets, or livestock.".

source

Here is the UN planning to make eugenics acceptable through education.

"The general philosophy of UNESCO should be a scientific world humanism, global in extent and evolutionary in background...its education program it can stress the ultimate need for world political unity and familiarize all peoples with the implications of the transfer of full sovereignty from separate nations to a world organization...Political unification in some sort of world government will be required...Tasks for the media division of UNESCO (will be) to promote the growth of a common outlook shared by all nations and cultures...to help the emergence of a single world culture....Even though it is quite true that any radical eugenic policy will be for many years politically and psychologically impossible, it will be important for UNESCO to see that the eugenic problem is examined with the greatest care, and that the public mind is informed of the issues at stake so that much that now is unthinkable may at least become thinkable."
- The first director -general of UNESCO Sir Julian Huxley, 1948, "UNESCO: Its Purpose and Its Philosophy."

Geo-engineering falls right in their stated and published goal of eugenics. Here are some of these globalist quotes on the purpose of eugenics:

“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.” - Prince Phillip, Duke of Edinburgh, leader of the World Wildlife Fund – quoted in “Are You Ready For Our New Age Future?,” Insiders Report, American Policy Center, December ’95

“A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.” – Ted Turner – CNN founder and UN supporter – quoted in the McAlvany Intelligence Advisor, June ’96

“The world has a cancer, and that cancer is man.” – Merton Lambert, former spokesman for the Rockefeller foundation

“In order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it’s just as bad not to say it.” – Jacques Cousteau

The globalist don't care about the health dangers of geo-engineering because it helps forward their eugenics agenda. This is a core argument of the movie. So don't bother trying to flag this as off topic.

reply to post by pianopraze

No. The topic of this thread is the only "evidence" presented in the movie, the soils and water tests. Your pet thread is available for the wide open discussion about the other speculative aspects of the movie. In fact, you are free to talk about the tests there as well.

So how are they going to kill people if they are not raising aluminum levels? Never mind the fact that aluminum has not been shown to be very toxic. You'd think "they" could come up with something more effective than spraying an irritant around at high altitudes where most of it would end up who knows where.

reply to post by Phage


I would say that withholding the sun from direct rays on my being is an irritant, health hazard and it makes it harder to have a nice life...get rid of these trails period...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by pianopraze

 

No. The topic of this thread is the only "evidence" presented in the movie, the soils and water tests. Your pet thread is available for the wide open discussion about the other speculative aspects of the movie. In fact, you are free to talk about the tests there as well.

So how are they going to kill people if they are not raising aluminum levels? Never mind the fact that aluminum has not been shown to be very toxic. You'd think "they" could come up with something more effective than spraying an irritant around at high altitudes where most of it would end up who knows where.

edit on 3/1/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Ah, so you explain another reason for making this thread. This is at the very heart of the movie and the other thread. So you are trying to "divide and concur" so you don't have to address the strongest argument of the movie. Very slick phage.

There are very real risks form aluminum presented in the movie. Also it is a 1-2 punch with the GMO seeds. Problem, Reaction, Solution... same old same old globalist world domination schema... they poison the land with aluminum and present GMO aluminum-resistant seeds with terminator genes which have show to sterilize lab rats within three generations. You then are forced to plant their seeds and forced into sterilization in without any unpleasant side effects as Holdren stated above... see they already have the solution. Well.. no unpleasant side effects unless you count skin rashes, DNA mutation.... but hey, maybe we'll all become x-men... wouldn't that be a hoot...

Also the people that are not globalists that are discussing this idea view it is a last gasp scenario and list aluminum toxicity as a possible side effect, along with bringing down new/old diseases which float up there and have no other way to come down except on the back of these aerosols...which we might see happening... but this is just a bonus for the eugenicists that want us dead anyways.

I also notice you don't answer or respond to what's posted when it doesn't fit your ideas. You have a lot of interesting psychological techniques that you use in your posts.

Are They Spraying Anything?

What are your thoughts Phage? Specifically are they "spraying" anything? If so, then the chaffe, contrail notion is not exclusive anymore, and some concern about what they are spraying is qualified, no?
I ask because I am wondering if this is the point where the whole chem-trail issue takes another turn, from "nothing is being sprayed."
Would you concur that something is being sprayed, regardless of how it may or may not affect us?

spec

reply to post by pianopraze

My reason for creating this thread has not changed. It is to expose the obfuscation of the soils and water tests by the movie makers. I think they didn't get the results they wanted and had to try to convince people there was something there that wasn't. I think a lot of people fell for it.

So they are "poisoning the land" with something that is already there and always has been there. How redundant.

Please refute the OP. Please present evidence that aluminum levels in soil and water are rising across the planet. Please present evidence that aluminum in the soil has anything to do with "chemtrails". Oh, that's right. This is the Skunk Works. You don't need to do that. See, aren't you happy about that.

Continue...please.

reply to post by speculativeoptimist

I think the only thing coming out of jet engines is burned kerosene, jet fuel (with tiny amounts of various additives which do things similar to the additives in gasoline).

I know that contrails can persist and spread. I know that the "evidence" present for the existence of contrails (like the tests in the movie) prove absolutely nothing except that aluminum and various other metal exist in our environment.

I have no reason to believe that geoengineering is occurring and enough reason to believe it is not.

Originally posted by pianopraze
[
There are very real risks form aluminum presented in the movie. Also it is a 1-2 punch with the GMO seeds. Problem, Reaction, Solution... same old same old globalist world domination schema... they poison the land with aluminum and present GMO aluminum-resistant seeds with terminator genes which have show to sterilize lab rats within three generations.

good theory - but aluminium posoning of soil has been known for at least 90 years - the first mention of it I know of is in a soil science journal in 1920 - the reference is J. J. Mirasol, Soil Science 10:153-193. I don't know het ful text but that reference occurs several times on the web. Contrail Science has a picture that refers to it, but I haven't been able to verify the content.

Quite a lot of the earth's soil is substandard because of aluminium poisoning - as much as 20%.

that represents billions of $$'s just there without need for any extra poisoning at all.

And given that soil is already invariably more than 1% aluminium, I reckon it would require billions of tons to be added to affect that in any appreciable manner - not just some miniscule amount sprayed in a haphazard manner from 30,000+ feet!

So here's why I discount this theory:

1/ The so called tests that show aluminium in soil are bogus - soil already has heaps of aluminium and always did

2/ there's already billions of $$'s to be made producing aluminium resistant crops without any need to risk it all by getting caught secretly poisoning the soil!

3/ You couldn't put enough aluminium into the atmosphere to make any difference anyway!

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by pianopraze

 

My reason for creating this thread has not changed. It is to expose the obfuscation of the soils and water tests by the movie makers. I think they didn't get the results they wanted and had to try to convince people there was something there that wasn't. I think a lot of people fell for it.

So they are "poisoning the land" with something that is already there and always has been there. How redundant.

Please refute the OP. Please present evidence that aluminum levels in soil and water are rising across the planet. Please present evidence that aluminum in the soil has anything to do with "chemtrails". Oh, that's right. This is the Skunk Works. You don't need to do that. See, aren't you happy about that.

Continue...please.

edit on 3/1/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

I see you continue to ignore and not address anything inconvenient. That is not a discussion that is a psychological ploy.

You reasons for creating this thread are becoming more and more apparent and they are not your stated reasons. The evidence is found in the movie and you are not addressing it.

I had great respect for your work before this phage, I was enjoying our true, fact based discussion of this topic in the other thread. I will continue it there. Your tactics in here are of dis-information psychology.

To directly answer you question and OP we started the discussion here: ats thread you are aware of how it developed from there and I do not wish to retype hours of information in here. We have covered lots of ground on this in the other thread.

To cover your answer to SO just above this...

This was also in BTS thread which your running from so far and fast... maybe because she was winning the argument.

reply to post by Phage


I wonder who is doing the deceiving here??
You cherry pick the tests that suit your agenda..
You choose the pond and make it sound like that was the only test but fail to mention they also collected 1 and 2 day rain samples on clean plastic sheets in various locations..
They also used filters to collect samples..

You also throw this in,

What about that sample from the snows of Mt. Shasta? Mt. Shasta is a pretty big mountain. They don’t say where they collected the snow

Did you actually read the report?
It was written in that it was near the sisson elementary playground..

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

There's another problem with the "plan".

Aluminum is only harmful to crops in acid soils.

Plants don't need aluminum to grow. It's not an essential plant nutrient. Aluminum, however, is one of the prominent mineral components of silt and clay. Therefore, the earth's crust is naturally high in aluminum. Like zinc, manganese , copper and iron, the more acid the soil, the more aluminum will be dissolved into the soil solution. If the pH is allowed to drop much below 5.5, the availability of manganese and aluminum is increased to the point that they could become toxic to plants. Aluminum toxicity to plants is the main concern we have with acid soils in our region.

So what do you do to combat that? You raise the pH of the soil.

Soils are limed to reduce the harmful effects of low pH (aluminum or manganese toxicity) and to add calcium and magnesium to the soil.

hubcap.clemson.edu...


Now, the guys in the movie are whining about increasing pH levels from the "chemtrails". So, the NWO is "spraying" some form of aluminum to "poison the earth", which increases the pH of the soil, which protects the plants from aluminum poisoning. Those sneaky bastards. It's the old double-cross...or something.

reply to post by Phage


"Or something" indeed.....of course it is the acidity that makes aluminium a problem, not aluminium that makes acidity!

Here's the wiki article on soil acidity, with a handy map.....en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by backinblack

Yes. Yes I did read the report. Quite thouroughly.

The sample from near Sission Elementary is on page 17 and was a soils test reported on 8/19/08.

The snow melt water test is on page 6, reported on 2/19/08, and the location is not specified.

Originally posted by Phage

Now, the guys in the movie are whining about increasing pH levels from the "chemtrails". So, the NWO is "spraying" some form of aluminum to "poison the earth", which increases the pH of the soil, which protects the plants from aluminum poisoning. Those sneaky bastards. It's the old double-cross...or something.

edit on 3/1/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Very disingenuous phage, we've already seen in the other thread that the alkaloid aluminum oxide they are dumping, if they are geo-engineering, is of a alkaloid range which is raising the ph of the soil thereby threatening the plants of the region. This is stated in the movie. You are full of it tonight. Dis-information. Link 3 has the alumina shown to be alkaloid, links 1 & 2 discuss the rapid increase from acidic to neutral of the soil over the last 5 years. Something is causing it. We can not point conclusively to geo-engineering, but it beats any suggestions phage or anyone else has suggested so far.
ats thread link1
ats thread link 2
ats thread link 3

reply to post by Phage


Care to give your take on the clean rainwater samples..??
Obviously you'd expect them to only show what was in the air at time of rain..

reply to post by pianopraze

Yes. yes. Whether or not the "sprayed" aluminum can significantly affect the pH levels is open to discussion at this point. Let's assume it can.

Why would Monsanto be spreading aluminum while at the same time increasing the pH of the soil which protects plants from aluminum poisoning. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of their aluminum resistant varieties? Wouldn't it be a better idea to lower the pH?

reply to post by backinblack

Yup.
Like I said...dust. Airborne dust carried by the first drops of rain. Or dried out leftovers in the containers.

reply to post by backinblack



Here's a link to the Mt Shasta News from June 2009 that actualy tested the water, in several locations (as noted), through seveal agencies, with properly taken samples, and had them tested at the same lab as the "original" Mt Shasta tests - and found little or no aluminium at all.


Like so many other tests supposedly exposing chemtrails, the original tests were essentially of soil - of sludge - pond sediment - essentially soil, and not water at all. The levels they got were well within the expected range for soils!