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Are They Spraying Anything?

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posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 11:44 AM
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My point is that Geo-Engineering in its basic premises is highly flawed in its scientific viability.
And my opinion as of now, is that it is a rouse... a cover-story. A slight of hand type of distraction.

Nobody is talking about John Holdren and the fact that he is the science advisor to Obama.. he has been pushing for Geo-Engineering (*fact*) and the fact that his writings (like the book Eco-Science) discuss methods of forced depopulation, which include poisoning the food and water supplies.




posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
No skeptic has *proven* that a covert operation is NOT taking place.


We are not trying to do that. We are debunking, which means we demonstrate which proposed pieces of evidence are incorrect. We identify and attempt to remove the bunk.

With chemtrails that results in there being no evidence to support the theory. You can decide for yourself if that proves it is not taking place.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
Nobody is talking about John Holdren and the fact that he is the science advisor to Obama.. he has been pushing for Geo-Engineering (*fact*) and the fact that his writings (like the book Eco-Science) discuss methods of forced depopulation, which include poisoning the food and water supplies.


Holdren is a very sensible chap. You should read what he actually wrote, and then quote the bits you think are indicative of something nefarious. Don't just take the word of people on the internet.

Example of something he actually said:

metabunk.org...


I said that the approaches that have been surfaced so far seem problematic in terms of both efficacy and side effects, but we have to look at the possibilities and understand them because if we get desperate enough it will be considered. I also made clear that this was my personal view, not Administration policy. Asked whether I had mentioned geo-engineering in any White House discussions, though, I said that I had. This is NOT the same thing as saying the White House is giving serious consideration to geo-engineering – which it isn’t — and I am disappointed that the headline and the text of the article suggest otherwise.
edit on 7-2-2012 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


Here are scientific facts, which I'd like to discuss with other scientists:

Then perhaps you should start or join a thread regarding climate change.

This thread is about the dishonesty or ignorance of the makers of the movie "What in the World are the Spraying". Would you like to discuss that?
edit on 2/7/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
Then perhaps you should start or join a thread regarding climate change.


I have. And this thread, in its title asks the question "Are they spraying anything". So I didn't know you intended it to ONLY focus on the movie.. as opposed to actually addressing the question which the thread title would suggest you are trying to address.


Originally posted by Phage
This thread is about the dishonesty or ignorance of the makers of the movie "What in the World are the Spraying". Would you like to discuss that?
edit on 2/7/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)


I did. I agreed.. they showed themselves to be non-trustworthy. Wasn't it clearly stated enough the first time?

That doesn't mean you can call the entire field of thought ("Aerial Spraying") a conspiracy-driven hoax, because of one badly-done documentary.

If you want to talk about U-shaped "contrails" being normal air traffic and use that as an argument to back up your obvious hypothesis (that there is no spraying) then maybe we can discuss the question you posed in the thread title.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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Actually, I take back this U-shaped contrails argument.
It was sufficiently debunked over in another thread... as "race-track holding patterns".
And I learned that it's not unusual.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


If I may, I would like to commend your approach here, across all your posts that I have seen. We should see more of it and, I hope that on the occasions I am shown to be mistaken, I act the same way.
edit on 7-2-2012 by waynos because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


Here are scientific facts, which I'd like to discuss with other scientists:

Then perhaps you should start or join a thread regarding climate change.

This thread is about the dishonesty or ignorance of the makers of the movie "What in the World are the Spraying". Would you like to discuss that?
edit on 2/7/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)


I would love to, but you got my thread where we had the real scientist from the movie talking with us closed. You really don't like to play fair phage.

But please LeonoraTenen do come to the current thread on this topic that BurnTheShips has going, its on the front page right now: link the new voices would be very welcome



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 


You are allowed to start another thread!



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
If I may, I would like to commend your approach here, across all your posts that I have seen. We should see more of it and, I hope that on the occasions I am shown to be mistaken, I act the same way.
edit on 7-2-2012 by waynos because: (no reason given)


Thank you. I realize that my approach was flawed and I'm happy to admit when I'm shown to be mistaken.
I don't see much give on the side of the debunkers.. although, I understand that would be contrary to the inherent objective.. which is imperical evidence.. not enabling people to harbor irrational fears by coddling their feelings.

I am coming around on this discussion and now I'm at the point where I'm willing to concede that there is no proof YET that any of what is occuring is un-natural.

If a photo were to be taken of a plane, close enough where you could see the trail(s) originating from a different line than the engine, that could change this discussion.

Until then, it's a vicious circle of conjecture and re-hashed beliefs, echoed from one fearful person to many others. A game of fear telephone.

I see it all the time.. (ie, friends posting on Facebook). People making a bigger deal out of things than what's happening.. it irks me because if it weren't for the Chicken-Littles running around with no actual aviation knowledge (like me) frantically screaming "the Sky is Falling!", then this topic might have more traction, and not be so laden with incredible crap.
edit on 7-2-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 03:54 PM
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No, no, your approach was fine. You had a query over something you saw as odd, never lose that, and you recognised the information provided for what it was and you amended your position on that particular point, while still querying the wider question of spraying.

However much I might disagree with you in future over fact or philosophy, cannot fault your genuine inquisitiveness and open mindedness. we should all be like that.


Incidentally, there ARE some images around that show trails from other parts of the aircraft, aerodynamic contrails, fuel venting etc, maybe we will debate over those sometime.
edit on 7-2-2012 by waynos because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
No, no, your approach was fine. You had a query over something you saw as odd, never lose that, and you recognised the information provided for what it was and you amended your position on that particular point, while still querying the wider question of spraying.

However much I might disagree with you in future over fact or philosophy, cannot fault your genuine inquisitiveness and open mindedness. we should all be like that.


Incidentally, there ARE some images around that show trails from other parts of the aircraft, aerodynamic contrails, fuel venting etc, maybe we will debate over those sometime.
edit on 7-2-2012 by waynos because: (no reason given)


Great post!

On the topic of fuel venting, or in general, dispersal of "chemicals" (elements) over a broad area of air. And what effects it may or may not have on human beings, down on the ground.

depletedcranium.com...

I believe this is a really level-headed article, which takes into consideration, things like molecular mass and how even though all the aluminum would eventually sink to ground, like in a fuel dump. Much of it would have been oxidized by the time it touches earth. And the rest is negligable in quantity because it's dispersed over SUCH a vast landmass.

It's starting to make more sense.

If they did want to "inoculate" or infect masses of people with heavy metal poisoning, it would be quite difficult, using aluminum being sprayed out of nozzles at high altitude. And there would be much more effective ways of distributing higher quantities of said "chemical" to more people, less noticeably and at far less of a cost.

Like acidic substances (ie, crushed tomatoes, or Minute Maid canned lemonade) being stored and eaten out of aluminum cans would deliver a higher PPM of aluminum intake. Not that it would be detrimental, let alone toxic.

It may, it may not. Jury's still out for me.
edit on 7-2-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by Deja`Vu
 





This morning the Georgia sky was deep blue as the sun was rising, the the planes started, x's and y's all over the place dumping something for sure, within 2 hours the sky was milky white and as the continued it was so obvious. The sun was blocked out and as they continued you could see them last all day. thats not contrail's thats something new!


Well I hate to burst your bubble my friend,but I work in Tucker and what you saw were contrails also the sun was not blocked out all day.and I took this at 12:45 pm or close to that time...



Sure doesn't look all covered by so called chemtrails, sorry.


They were natural contrails and nothing more. The sky was like this for most of the day.



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 09:01 PM
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Okay for all of you that think planes making an x or crossing patterns are chemtrails well then how do you explain these....





Funny how the sky is just so blue behind the contrails. Sure looks like the X doesn't mark the spot for chemtrails.


Also good thread Phage I seem to notice the same trend starting on this thread as so many other threads end up being,and that would be the blatant name calling and not one shred of evidence to back up their claims.


And now to the video in question hasn't one of the main people in that video admit to persistent contrails being real? I an sure that video is in one of the threads in this forum and if someone knows where it is could you please post it so I don.t have to spend forever looking for it.

And now I ask this to those chemtrailers who keeps saying the evidence is out there could you please post it for the rest of us? This is really getting redundant asking for this evidence,so please post it for gods sake?



posted on Feb, 7 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen


I don't see much give on the side of the debunkers.. although, I understand that would be contrary to the inherent objective.. which is imperical evidence..


IMO it is less than that - I'd be greatly interested in something that was "unusual" and wasn't actually consistent with something is known about.

But I wouldn't immediately say it was "chemtrails" - I'd be looking for something that was consistent with whatever it was that was unusual. If "spraying something from an aeroplane" was consistent with whatever was observed then it would be a valid line of inquiry.

It doesn't actually take empirical evidence to be a possibility, nor to remain a possibility in the absence of a better explanation - but it does take something better than looking and behaving exactly like a known phenomena such as contrails.

So far I haven't seen anything that fits that criteria.



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 04:13 AM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


I think that it should probably be two separate lines of investigation by now. I am sure that contrails are just contrails, highly visible, sometimes lingering, sometimes spreading into cirrus sheets etc, however, could there also be an operation to spray substances on people? I don't know, it might be possible.

However, would there be any reason, or even any point, for such spraying to be visible? My thinking is that it would not be. Not merely for secrecy, but also sheer practicality considering the volume of material and how high we are talking about. The contrails we see are not being carried in the aircraft leaving them, they are made by the combustion of jet fuel (which itself results in a greater quantity of water than the amount of fuel used) and mixing with bypass air, already containing its own moisture. I am therefore of the view that focussing on visible trails, whether they spread or persist or even stop and start, is a complete red herring. We know that the jet engine is still spewing out exhaust gasses whether we see a trail or not. Any nefarious spraying would be the same IMO.



posted on Feb, 8 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
And now to the video in question hasn't one of the main people in that video admit to persistent contrails being real? I an sure that video is in one of the threads in this forum and if someone knows where it is could you please post it so I don.t have to spend forever looking for it.




@1:25

"Persistent contrails are just natural contrails, they do not contain the high amounts of aluminum, barium, strontium, and other fall-out that matches geoengineering and numerous patents exactly. So with that being said, a persistent contrail is a contrail that last a little bit longer, and they have been seen as far back as World War Two."





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