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Are They Spraying Anything?

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posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by Arken
 



If it was as a result of apraying in the sky I'd expect a lot more than just 1 case.

Other barium sources in common use include diesel fuel (Barium has been an additive for decases), industrial processes, oil well "heavy mud", and in some places simply atmospheric dust due to high levels in the soil.

Where is this golden Valley - ther are several in the USA?




posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 

If it were an environmental issue I would expect more than a single case.
Barium carbonate (BaCO4) is rat poison. Maybe his spouse/children/caregiver should be investigated as a source.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 

If it were an environmental issue I would expect more than a single case.
Barium carbonate (BaCO4) is rat poison. Maybe his spouse/children/caregiver should be investigated as a source.


The "Rat's Barium Conspiracy" world wide...

Ineresting.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 09:39 AM
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An meaningfull news about what "they" spraying:

ATS News 04 - US Defense Contractor Owns Chemtrail Patent!
The employees of a major US defense contractor have obtained a patent on the spraying of particulates into the atmosphere, or in other words, chemtrails. This startling discovery is the lead story in our latest installment of ATS News with Johnny Anonymous. There are few conspiracy theory subjects as controversial as chemtrails, and this new discovery by a AboveTopSecret.com member adds some startlingly volatile fuel to the fire. Other stories include our continuing coverage of swine flu, the creation of element 114, dimensional portals, and more.

video.abovetopsecret.com...
www.scribd.com...



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by Arken
 

Do you have any of your own thoughts to add? The patent wasn't a "new discovery" when the ATS video was made and it isn't now.

Worldwide conspiracy? Are there many, may people suffering barium poisoning? Are you?

Would you like to address the points made in the OP?

edit on 3/10/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by Arken
 


Sorry....don't know why you are so credulous RE: the "Stadis 450".....you just take the "chem"-trail pushers at their word? Without checking any of their facts, or the numbers??


Yes Stadis 450 : Barium and Aluminium.



Do yourself a favor to become better informed. Look into the details of additive "Stadis 450". (Take note of its purpose...an anti-static additive). But, most importantly, the amounts....in parts-per-million. Hint: Incredibly tiny amounts....so small, in fact, that from what I (and another member) calculated, a typical large jet, on a six-hour cross-country flight would emit about 2 to 3 kilograms, total.

And, that is only assuming any of it actually makes it through the combustion process....temperatures of ~3,000° F!! Try to imagine which materials can survive those temperatures unscathed....



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Arken
 

The patent wasn't a "new discovery" when the ATS video was made and it isn't now.


edit on 3/10/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)


Is This your argument, BIG Phage?


You look at the finger and not to the moon.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by Arken
 

The patent has been discussed many many times. There is no evidence it would work and no reason to believe it has been implemented.

Do you have any comments about the OP?



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Sorry....don't know if you have enough math lessons at your school, but:

3 kilos of barium in six hours?

Do you know how many airplane there are in the world?
Do you know how many hours of flight?

Thousands of tons of Barium/Aluminium sprayed in the atmosphere.


edit on 10-3-2011 by Arken because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-3-2011 by Arken because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by Arken
 


Got any actual evidence of that quantity? You make it sound like you must have something - bills of lading, production figures, aircraft load sheets or soemthing like that to quantify it?



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by Arken
 


So in addition to commerical and military aircraft there are thousands of other aircraft flying aorund everyday spraying this stuff? Where are they? Where do they fly from? From where is the alumium and barium produced? Must be refineries? Perhaps they're on the Moon?

And where is the evidence? Shoudld be easy to examine snowfall in Greenland and Antarctic - or indeed, elsewhere - and compare with ice cores to prove a sudden, recent, increase in such substances,



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Arken
 


Sorry....don't know why you are so credulous RE: the "Stadis 450".....you just take the "chem"-trail pushers at their word? Without checking any of their facts, or the numbers??


Yes Stadis 450 : Barium and Aluminium.



Do yourself a favor to become better informed. Look into the details of additive "Stadis 450". (Take note of its purpose...an anti-static additive). But, most importantly, the amounts....in parts-per-million. Hint: Incredibly tiny amounts....so small, in fact, that from what I (and another member) calculated, a typical large jet, on a six-hour cross-country flight would emit about 2 to 3 kilograms, total.


I did the math on how much Barium might be generated by Stadis 450 a while back - IIRC it is added at 2 parts per million to jet fuel, and the potential Barium bits are a maximum of 40% of it, and are not all barium - they are proprietory substances, formulation not known, but I'm going to go out on a limb saying that they are not more than 50% barium

So the maximum amount of Barium in jet fuel is 2 ppm x 40% x 50% = 0.4 parts per million.

A 747 will burn about 20-30,000 lb of fuel per hour in cruise (www.ehow.com...)

So at 0.4 parts per million that's about 0.012 lb/hour of barium burned - over a distance of maybe 500 miles.

Given a 10 hour flight you are looking at about 1/8th of a lb of barium - 0.12 lb - maximum - so sorry - your 2-3 kg per flight overestimates it by a factor of almost 10 - probably more but at least that.



And, that is only assuming any of it actually makes it through the combustion process....temperatures of ~3,000° F!! Try to imagine which materials can survive those temperatures unscathed....


Quite!



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by Arken
 


Astonishes me that someone actually gave you a ("reflexive??) star for that???


don't know if you have enough math lessons at your school, but:


Before you go insulting people, may wish to check your reading comprehension skills, first.....


3 kilos of barium in six hours?

Do you know how many airplane there are in the world?


Did you bother to actually read the example?!?!?


I used that (grossly OVERSTATED figure, as it turns out....I erred in your favor, actually) to represent ONE AIRPLANE!! It is clear, in my post. The word "a", as in "a large airplane", is used to signify "one"...at least, in the schools I went to....and when I read other things, in life, it seems to reinforce that fact.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


why do you guys bother with these people. They have their minds made up and any proof, logic you introduce is ignored and ridiculed. let them have their delusions and enjoy living in constant fear. At least they aren't flipping out over planet X or something. they are harmless. Like lemmings. just herd them away from the cliffs.



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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In the movie it is claimed that high levels of aluminum were also found in the soil on Maui. I lived on Maui for a while and I reconize the area in which the filming was done. I know the exact location where that rope trolley is used to carry fisherman out to the rock off shore. It is on the east side of the island in an area called Haiku.

In an article published in 1959 (Aluminum in Some Hawaiian Plants, Pacific Science, Vol. XIII) the aluminum content of soil from various areas is given.

Haiku: 25-40%
Kapaa: 40-60%
Kukaiau: 20-35%
Honokaa: 15-30%

Volcanic soils are known to be rich in aluminum. There is no basis for the claim that "spraying" has anything to do with it.

scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu...
edit on 3/10/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by Qcuailon
 


I can't believe your post was basically ignored. Thank you for showing solid evidence. It angers me that because we weren't alive during the 50s (most on ATS), people tend to look the other way when it comes to all the covert testing they did back then. Can you imagine if a scientist came out with that information during wartime??? The would've been laughed at and ridiculed..all-the-while the testing WAS HAPPENING. Countless videos and books are out there on this subject...




People as far away as the East Coast may have been exposed to as much radiation fallout from nuclear tests in the 1950s as residents directly downwind from the Nevada blasts, according to preliminary information from a National Cancer Institute study.
Young children's exposures may have been 10 times the average in the worst hot spots, mostly because they drank contaminated milk, the government said yesterday.
Experts cautioned, however, that no one knows whether the exposures were enough to cause thyroid cancer. The NCI refused yesterday to release its list of the 24 U.S. counties that had the most fallout.



At military bases in Maryland and Washington, D.C., among other places, young Navy men were sealed in cinder block chambers behind steel doors and were doused with mustard gas, one of the most insidious chemical weapons ever devised.
The researchers wanted to know just how much chemical exposure a man could take under various conditions. But the sailors were told neither the nature of the experiments nor the likely consequences.



One of the worst I've heard and eerily similar to "chemtrails" is the testing of Zinc-Cadmium in the UK. These were done is secret and now people are developing horrible cancers and dying from it. They sprayed it from aircraft and from large trucks/buses.

www.fas.org...

Please see the video:

ideam.net...

----

From the Environmental Modification Convention...see how insane their restrictions are? It leaves so much room to "play".



Article I
1. Each State Party to this Convention undertakes not to engage in military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques having widespread, long-lasting or severe effects as the means of destruction, damage or injury to any other State Party.

2. Each State Party to this Convention undertakes not to assist, encourage or induce any State, group of States or international organiza-tion to engage in activities contrary to the provisions of paragraph 1 of this article.


Article II
As used in Article I, the term "environmental modification techniques" refers to any technique for changing -- through the deliberate manipulation of natural processes -- the dynamics, composition or structure of the Earth, including its biota, lithosphere, hydrosphere and atmosphere, or of outer space.


Article III
1. The provisions of this Convention shall not hinder the use of environmental modification techniques for peaceful purposes and shall be without prejudice to the generally recognized principles and applicable rules of international law concerning such use.

2. The States Parties to this Convention undertake to facilitate, and have the right to participate in, the fullest possible exchange of scientific and technological information on the use of environmental modification techniques for peaceful purposes. States Parties in a position to do so shall contribute, alone or together with other States or international organizations, to international economic and scientific co-operation in the preservation, improvement, and peaceful utilization of the environment, with due consideration for the needs of the developing areas of the world.



-----------vvv------
It is the understanding of the Committee that, for the purposes of this Convention, the terms, "widespread", "long-lasting" and "severe" shall be interpreted as follows:

(a) "widespread": encompassing an area on the scale of several hundred square kilometres;

(b) "long-lasting": lasting for a period of months, or approximately a season;

(c) "severe": involving serious or significant disruption or harm to human life, natural and economic resources or other assets.


www.fas.org...
edit on 10-3-2011 by donatellanator because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by donatellanator
reply to post by Qcuailon
 


I can't believe your post was basically ignored. Thank you for showing solid evidence. It angers me that because we weren't alive during the 50s (most on ATS), people tend to look the other way when it comes to all the covert testing they did back then. Can you imagine if a scientist came out with that information during wartime??? The would've been laughed at and ridiculed..all-the-while the testing WAS HAPPENING. Countless videos and books are out there on this subject...


Indeed - it is not secret any more.

But it is also not evidence that commercial airlienrs are being used to secretly spray anything right now or for hte last 15 years.



One of the worst I've heard and eerily similar to "chemtrails" is the testing of Zinc-Cadmium in the UK. These were done is secret and now people are developing horrible cancers and dying from it. They sprayed it from aircraft and from large trucks/buses.


and from ships - msotly they sprayed from everythign EXCEPT aircraft - IIRC they only used aircraft twice, and it has been known about for years - in 2005 it was public in hte UK - news.bbc.co.uk...

the US sprayed a lot more than the UK did - see en.wikipedia.org...

And, at the time, they thought it was perfectly safe.

The chemtrail story today is not about spraying somethign that is thought to be perfectly safe, and although these are evidence that the Govts concerned have experimented on the population in the past, they are not evidence that anything is being done right now.

Byall means be suspicious.......but there's a difference between suspicion and to paranoid delusion.



From the Environmental Modification Convention...see how insane their restrictions are? It leaves so much room to "play".


Yeah - for peaceful purposes, in public, and not as a weapon!

You do realise that there are all sorts of weather modifications going on around you all the time?

Dams modify weather, cloud seeding modifies weather, pollution modifies weather - how about we ban hydro-electricity, motor vehicles and industry - would that make you happier?

I suspect not......



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Arken
 


Got any actual evidence of that quantity? You make it sound like you must have something - bills of lading, production figures, aircraft load sheets or soemthing like that to quantify it?


Ask to weedwackers!



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 



The chemtrail story today is not about spraying somethign that is thought to be perfectly safe, and although these are evidence that the Govts concerned have experimented on the population in the past, they are not evidence that anything is being done right now.


Nah, of course not...
Just because it's a proven fact the Government in the past has deliberately sprayed dangerous chemicals on unsuspecting civilians in no way means they are doing it today..

The Government of today only has our best interests at heart and are fully open and transparent..



posted on Mar, 10 2011 @ 06:17 PM
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Re: ATG


One of the worst I've heard and eerily similar to "chemtrails" is the testing of Zinc-Cadmium in the UK. These were done is secret and now people are developing horrible cancers and dying from it. They sprayed it from aircraft and from large trucks/buses.



and from ships - msotly they sprayed from everythign EXCEPT aircraft - IIRC they only used aircraft twice, and it has been known about for years - in 2005 it was public in hte UK - .

the US sprayed a lot more than the UK did - see en.wikipedia.org...

And, at the time, they thought it was perfectly safe.


Your information is bad. They tested it more than twice from aircraft. I know they did this in the US. There are still laws in place today that PROTECT "PEACEFUL" TESTING without consent.

www.mod.uk...



The chemtrail story today is not about spraying somethign that is thought to be perfectly safe, and although these are evidence that the Govts concerned have experimented on the population in the past, they are not evidence that anything is being done right now.

Byall means be suspicious.......but there's a difference between suspicion and to paranoid delusion.



I don't understand how I proved paranoid delusion. I am pointing to the FACT that testing has been done without public knowledge in the past. I am also saying this could still be the case. The military could unknowingly be testing something harmful on us that is just seen as new technology.





Yeah - for peaceful purposes, in public, and not as a weapon!

You do realise that there are all sorts of weather modifications going on around you all the time?

Dams modify weather, cloud seeding modifies weather, pollution modifies weather - how about we ban hydro-electricity, motor vehicles and industry - would that make you happier?

I suspect not......



Oh my God. The only point I was trying to make was that governments/military DO TEST WITHOUT PERMISSION and have in the past. If you are not declaring war on your citizens or martial law it is considered a peaceful purpose if one is "TESTING". I think it is silly that you would bring up dams, hydro-electric power, etc as if I am a moron. I don't believe or disbelieve chemtrails exist. I personally have seen letters/shapes made with contrails and patterns drawn by very low craft. In a city I used to live in, they only had about 5 flights a day out, yet I saw dozens of low flying planes constantly leaving trails. I lived very close to the airport also.

Let me just say that almost every single time a government or military has tested on unknowing victims, it minimizes the scope of the damage done. This happens because they want to "save face" in front of the public. Ask prisoners (who were given syphalis and gonnorhea), ask the Tuskeegee subjects, ask the soldiers given '___',ask....

en.wikipedia.org...
www.todanoticia.com...


In 1952 over 300 Black inmates at an Ohio state prison were injected with live cancer cells so that doctors at the Sloan-Kettering Institute could study the effects. In these cases the research subjects’ rights were violated because either they were not told that they were participating in an experiment or the government knew the experiments had no therapeutic value, or both.

Other cases include Heinrich v. Sthemet, 62 F.Supp.2d 282(D.Mass. 1999) (government utilized false pretenses to lure plaintiffs into participating in radiation experiments which the government knew had no therapeutic value); Stadt v. Univ. of Rochester, 921 F.Supp. 1023 (W.D.N.Y. 1996) (plaintiff, who thought she was receiving medical treatment for scleroderma, was injected with plutonium without her knowledge or consent as part of a U.S. Army study); In re Cincinnati Radiation Litig., 874 F.Supp. 796 (S.D. Ohio 1995) (plaintiffs were not informed that the radiation they were receiving from the Department of Defense was part of a military experiment rather than treatment of their cancer).

In Allen v. United States, 588 F.Supp. 247, 399 (D. Ut. 1984), the court held that it is becoming established that shortening of life span is a general effect of whole body exposure to ionizing radiation. Experiments have also shown a similar reduction may be caused by irradiation of substantial portions of the body from ingestion of radioactive materials.

In all of those cases, both the state and federal government had told the subjects that they experimented on that the radiation levels were harmless – only for the victims to learn later that they were in fact not harmless, but deadly!



In the 1960s and ‘70s the Bureau of Prisons forced inmates – mostly Black and Hispanic prisoners – to submit to radiation exposure to their testes in order to study the effects. See the case of Bibea v. Pacific Norththemst Research, 980 F. Supp. 349(D.Or. 1997); See also, Clay v. Martin, 509 F.2d 109(2d. Cir. 1974) (“The court reversed the decision that dismissed … prisoner’s complaint against defendants, federal government and prison officials, holding that it was against public policy to dismiss the complaint on pleading technicalities because the action involved experimentation on humans.”)

Other experiments include testing psychotropic narcotics on inmates who have not been prescribed them just to see their effects, such as in the recent case of Walker v. Hastings, 2009 U.S. Dist. Lexis 80924, Case No. 09-CV-074-ART(E.D. KY). Walker was diagnosed with H Pylori, a bacterium that can infect one’s stomach or intestines, but was given Zyprexa, a psychotropic narcotic on at least nine different occasions by a prison pharmacist at USP Big Sandy seeking to test the effects of the medications for pharmaceutical companies.



sfbayview.com...

(That last one was from 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) I could go on and on all night. We do it here and abroad! It's DISGUSTING! We should be fighting for DISCLOSURE!!!!!! ...not about who is right.

All this is on topic-- the original Subject was "Are they spraying anything?"
edit on 10-3-2011 by donatellanator because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-3-2011 by donatellanator because: (no reason given)



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