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Freemasonry and its Involvement In Colonialism, Wars, Genocides and Revolutions.

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posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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The Biblical deity is most certainly a genocidal, human-hating Bronze Age tribal deity and the God of the Masons is most certainly a Capitalist deity; why else would he love a bunch of Neofascist Capitalists and anti-Communists?



I think that any decent humanistic person reading the Bible could not fail to come to Richard Dawkins' conclusion that the Biblical deity is "arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully (The God Delusion)."



Theism is not generally a harmless faith; if one defines God in such a barbaric and savage human-nature-hating way, then this will ultimately have consequences on human behaviour, and the long history of tryanny, slavery, wars, genocides and Inquisitions by the devotees of the God of Capitalism are ample evidence of this; there seems to be no amount human evil which cannot be justified by a belief in God; it is my judgement that those who accept the Bible as a volume of "sacred law" are simply morally subhuman..











I do not believe in tolerating genocidal and human hating religious beliefs, and since many religions are entirely militant, they will demand a militant response in order to eradicate them. Nationalism and Capitalist government seem to be generally part of the mindset of the Freemasons; I am entirely an anti-nationalist and ultimately an anti-statist, however I don't believe that the world's population is ready yet for Anarcho-Communism, and thus Socialist governments are a temporal necessity, however I refer to "Socialist" by Marx and Engels' definition, with gradual mass collectivisation and nationalisation of industry and banking; this is quite the opposite agenda of the current International Dictatorship of Capitalism.











Wars are usually always fought in the name of peace; the peace that follows victory and the conquest of one's enemies; in the long history of Anglo-American state terrorism and imperialism wars have often been fought for such peace; it is not a question of the Capitalists becoming enslaved; the purpose of Capitalism is live off the slavery of others; peace to a slavemaster is the lack of rebellion among the enslaved.





Well, since religion is often a militant and anti-Communist phenomenon, often the only real solution is the firing sqaud. I have no objection to peaceful religionists as long as they don't start large organised religious cults





You don't really seem to be able to accept criticisms of your cult; I do concede that there are numerous bizarre conspiracy theories about Freemasonry, some of which are entirely absent of evidence, and that some of the Masonic apologetics are justified; further I probably have more in common with the Masons than your Antimasonic Christian enemies; I do try to only raise criticisms of Masonry which can be substantiated. Antimasonry has generally been a Christian sport by other competitors in the religious market place who claim to have a better product; I simply conisder Masonry to be a leading gang of establishment Capitalists.







Just repeating the same arguments over and over again do not make them any more true. It is perfectly fair to judge Freemasonry by the behaviour and political ideology of most Freemasons, since Freemasonry is an organisation of persons. Many organised crime syndicates do charitable work, however that does not make them any less of a criminal organisation. It is my judgement that "all" Messianic religious cults are a danger to humankind; it is merely that the Freemasons are rather at the top of the Capitalist food chain of cults.





"Freemasonry" is perhaps some idea in your mind; however it is my impression of Freemasons (i.e., persons who are Freemasons) that they operate like a gang of organised Capitalist Capitalists and that they tend to be part of the Capitalist establishment.





If an anti-Communist is a pacifist, then such a person poses no direct threat to world revolution; however Capitalism is essentially a militant ideology and the last century of US Imperialism, military coups and the behaviour of the CIA and the US military in general "is" a definition of Neofascism, where the economic and miliary elites have attempted to impose their Neoliberal economic policies on the world and the consequences have been genocidal.





Contradiction is a poor substitute for argument and evidence; I have absolutely no intention of stating anything about Freemasonry which is untrue and I am willing to retract any false statement I may have made in error; however thus far I have had no need to retract anything I have posted on the subject of Freemasonry





You are simply attributing a statement to me which I never made, and which is a product of your own imagination and then attacking this product of your imagination; you are simply talking to yourself.

Of course Judaism is a religion; however it is not a "major" world religion; of the approximately 13 to 14 million people in the world who identify themselves as having a Jewish heritage, only a tiny minority of them practice some form of Judaism as a religion; there are probably more Jewish atheists than there are religious fanatics. I doubt if most people in the world could even name a prominent Jewish religionist, however the list of well known Jewish atheist and humanist celebrities is a very long one, including probably the next British Prime Minister. Essentially the modern Jewish religious philosophy of the 21st century is not Judaism, but rather Kabbalism, which underpins the entire Neopagan, New Age movement.





The membership lists of Freemasonry are not published, however in the UK, they are a major part of the Capitalist and banking establishment and they virtually run the banking establishment in the UK; indeed Masonic membership is "compulsory" at certain levels in the UK banking world.





My knowledge of Masonry and numerous other Messianic religious cults is simply gleaned from studying them, and this involves also considering the writings of ex-cultists and anti-cultists, as well as the cultists themselves; that is a well established academic method.







Militant Communism is simply a reponse to militant Capitalism; if the Capitalists were not militant and genocidal, they would not require a militant response.



"The beginnings will not be easy; they shall be extremely difficult. All the oligarchies' powers of repression, all their capacity for brutality and demagoguery will be placed at the service of their cause. Our mission, in the first hour, shall be to survive; later, we shall follow the perennial example of the guerilla, carrying out armed propaganda ... the great lesson of the invincibility of the guerrillas taking root in the dispossessed masses; the galvanizing of the national spirit, the preparation for harder tasks, for resisting even more violent repressions. Hatred as an element of the struggle; a relentless hatred of the enemy, impelling us over and beyond the natural limitations that man is heir to and transforming him into an effective, violent, selective and cold killing machine. Our soldiers must be thus; a people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy. "

Che Guevara


Revoutionary propaganda, should by necessity identify humankind's enemies and incite hatred of them, however with regards to inciting hatred of Freemasonry, I have attempted to be scrupulously truthful, since there is so much nonsense spoken about them, which is simply not useful.


Again, I will repeat myself since you seem not able to grasp what I'm saying. Where in our ritual does it cover these hazing rituals?

Keep posting these pictures as they are not evidence that the Masons use these rituals. These catalogs are not the ritual books. Allegations are not necessarily fact.

The Masons here keep denying that hazing rituals occur in Masonic side degrees; however just repeatedly denying that such rituals occur does not make such claims any more true; further since I have never been a member of the Masonic cult, such allegations have not been made by myself, but by other Freemasons and ex-Freemasons.

If you wish to keep denying the allegations, I am quite happy to keep reposting the allegations.

Lux





edit on 17-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting




posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 06:09 PM
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Again, I will repeat myself since you seem not able to grasp what I'm saying. Where in our ritual does it cover these hazing rituals?

Keep posting these pictures as they are not evidence that the Masons use these rituals. These catalogs are not the ritual books. Allegations are not necessarily fact.

The Masons here keep denying that hazing rituals occur in Masonic side degrees; however just repeatedly denying that such rituals occur does not make such claims any more true; further since I have never been a member of the Masonic cult, such allegations have not been made by myself, but by other Freemasons and ex-Freemasons.

If you wish to keep denying the allegations, I am quite happy to keep reposting the allegations.

Lux





edit on 17-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting


is it really necessary to keep posting the same stuff? You must have an uncle that sells bandwidth.



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
is it really necessary to keep posting the same stuff? You must have an uncle that sells bandwidth.


Is it really necessary for Freemasons on this forum to keep denying the existence of hazing rituals? Why not just admit it and concede the point? Or perhaps you could explain the benefits of such holy and sacred electric shock rituals and the application of whipped cream, strawberries and electric shocks to the genitals? Surely you Masonic apologists would want to explain your holy and sacred nature of your rituals and their benefits in producing a mind controlled cultist?

If the Freemasons are going to keep continually denying that such hazing rituals occur in their cult, then I think it perfectly appropriate to repost the allegations.




Further many of the images have invisible embedded keywords which assists the thread to get to the top of Google searches for many subjects on Google and Google images, and since you Freemasons wish to educate the public as to the nature of your cult, you should be more than happy about that; indeed you should thank me for assisting your cult to gain notoriety and for assisting the population of the WWW to have a greater understanding of your holy and sacred rituals of electrocution, humiliation and of course the sacred Hula, Hula Hoop Dance. If such holy and sacred rituals are beneficial, then surely you should be encouraging humankind to start doing such rituals. Perhaps all religious cults should start applying electric shocks to the genitals of initiates; perhaps the Muslims and Christians should start doing this if it is so beneficial.

Lux


edit on 17-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting

edit on 17-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting .



posted on Mar, 17 2011 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 

The Biblical deity is the same of the Jewish faith, which you don't seem to consider a religion needing critic.

And not all Masons follow the faith as laid out in the Torah, Bible, or Koran. Some are Buddhists, Hindu, and Deists.

Humanists are just self involved convinced of their own superiority.

Men have used religion as an excuse for their atrocities. Just like you use things as scapegoats.

Glancing over the basless attack on a group of US soldiers that for all you know are good people. So thank you for admitting you are a picker-and-chooser of what you consider tolerance. I'm not surprised that a Commie sympathizer believes in such a way. Fascism often says it supports freedom, but only what they think is freedom.

Actually I don't believe in nationalism, socialism, or communism.

Chaplains are a great asset for soldiers. Not only for a guide of their individual faith, but also as a risk free counselor when one is troubled.

Like I said, as a soldier I wish to see a time of peace.


Well, since religion is often a militant and anti-Communist phenomenon, often the only real solution is the firing sqaud. I have no objection to peaceful religionists as long as they don't start large organised religious cults.

This is exactly what is wrong with people like you. You claim that you want peace and tolerance, but you just want your fascist government in place to force what you want. Freedom and liberty would suffer under your government. If this fascism is what you want in place I will put down the olive branch and pick up the sword to fight. I will not live as a slave to a government who will force me to give up my ideology because it sees itself as a moral leader. Again, humanists are self involved convinced they are superior and thus "know better".

Freemasonry is not a cult. Every point you have laid out there defining what a cult is has not held up to Freemasonry. And pictures of Bush doesn't somehow enhance your beliefs while nullifying mine.

Your impression of us being a militant gang is wrong.

The only thing I pose a threat to is an ideology that oppresses its citizenry and crushes my rights.

So you can't name these prominent Freemasons? You can't even give me a list of those who you think are Masons?

Books can only take you so far. Real life experience gives you a more realistic look at something.

A quote from the murderer Che doesn't negate the atrocities committed by the Commies, to include Che himself.

I'm not denying anything yet. I just want you to post more than pictures from a catalog. I want to know where in our ritual does this hazing occur. I want it from the Masonic sources, not ex-Masons who may have their own agenda or those who say they were Masons but never were.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 10:49 AM
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I guess your ability to understand the written language is masked by your amazing ability to display pictures and advertisements and a butload of words that mean nothing. Please read this slowly so you will understand it.

Most of us are not in the shrine. Not being in the shrine, I have no idea what they do. I can say that in craft masonry and Scottish Rite, none of the things you say are true. If you want to prove that this stuff happens in the shrine, ask a shriner or join the shrine.



The only thing I can offer is the shriners say that they have lots of fun while they are donating over a million dollars a day to their charities. If they do put strawberries and whipped cream in their pants and that makes them happy then great. Nobody is condemning you for your sexual behavior, so how about you MYOFB on that issue.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
Most of us are not in the shrine. Not being in the shrine, I have no idea what they do. I can say that in craft masonry and Scottish Rite, none of the things you say are true. If you want to prove that this stuff happens in the shrine, ask a shriner or join the shrine.


If there is anything I have written regarding the Freemasons on this discussion board which is untrue, I am more than happy to retract it if shown to be false. This thread relates to the Shriners and Jesters which are side degrees of American Masonry which around a third of US Masons are members of, and not to British Freemasonry and other regular and irregular Masonic Lodges.


The only thing I can offer is the shriners say that they have lots of fun while they are donating over a million dollars a day to their charities. If they do put strawberries and whipped cream in their pants and that makes them happy then great. Nobody is condemning you for your sexual behavior, so how about you MYOFB on that issue.


I am not "condemning" the American Masons for the sacred and holy ancient Egyptian initiation ritual of applying whipped cream, ice cream and strawberries to the genitals of initiates. Nor have I "condemned" them for the sacred and holy rite of applying electric shocks to the genitals, caging initiates and for their sacred "Golden Shower" simulation rituals (via a rubber penis). I would like to encourage the activities of the Gay BDSM crowd, and I in no way mean to imply any condemnation; I merely seek to promote a greater understanding of the holy and sacred Masonic hazing methods.

Since this discussion forum is about "secret societies" the Freemasons here should thank me for furthering a greater understanding of American Freemasonic rituals, and their use of charity funds to sponsor events of drunken revelry with strippers, prostitutes, sex slaves (trafficked women) and and child prostitutes. I am sure that this will enourage even more Americans to join ther gang. I should be praised for assisting the recruitment of these corrupt Masonic gangs.

Lux
edit on 18-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777
This thread relates to the Shriners and Jesters which are side degrees of American Masonry which around a third of US Masons are members of, and not to British Freemasonry and other regular and irregular Masonic Lodges.


My apologies, I am confusing this thread with the "On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters" thread on www.abovetopsecret.com...

Lux



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by Lucifer777

Originally posted by Lucifer777
This thread relates to the Shriners and Jesters which are side degrees of American Masonry which around a third of US Masons are members of, and not to British Freemasonry and other regular and irregular Masonic Lodges.


My apologies, I am confusing this thread with the "On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters" thread on www.abovetopsecret.com...

Lux




Oh give it a rest and put a sock it in. You cut/copy/pastin' unoriginal self absorbed lepton. Everyone is sick of you beating the same dead horse over and over again. Get out of your grandmother's basement for a change.





edit on 18-3-2011 by LightCraft because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

The Biblical deity is the same of the Jewish faith, which you don't seem to consider a religion needing critic.


My criticisms of Biblical fanaticism in general should be taken as criticisms of both the Jewish and Christian faith; however the Christian faith is a major memetic virus with 100's of millions of victims of religious hypnosis and indoctrination, whilst Judaism is a relatively minor religion with probably less adherents than Freemasonry; it is a religion which the vast majority of Jewish people entirely reject; there are probably more Jewish atheists than there are religious fanatics.

Sometimes I change my mind and call for all Christians to be stoned to death for eating figs, shrimp, crab, lobster, clams, mussels, pork, and for cutting their hair, cutting their beards, wearing shoes, carrying money and for posting on Internet discussion forums on the Sabbath (Friday Sunset till Saturday Sunset); all these things being abominations to the Lord god.


And not all Masons follow the faith as laid out in the Torah, Bible, or Koran. Some are Buddhists, Hindu, and Deists.


Well obviously I would object to an organisation which opened their membership to religious fanatics.


Humanists are just self involved convinced of their own superiority.


Yes we are convinced of our own superiority over your imaginary friend who hates figs, shrimp, crab, lobster, clams, mussels, pork, and people who cut their hair, cut their beards, wear shoes, carry money and who post on Internet discussion forums on the Sabbath (i.e., today); all these things being an abomination to Lord god, most high. Holy, holy.



Men have used religion as an excuse for their atrocities. Just like you use things as scapegoats.




The Biblical deity is a genocidal Bronze Age deity who demanded the deaths of the devotees of all competing deities; he is the perfect excuse for genocidal religious fanatics.


Glancing over the basless attack on a group of US soldiers that for all you know are good people. So thank you for admitting you are a picker-and-chooser of what you consider tolerance. I'm not surprised that a Commie sympathizer believes in such a way. Fascism often says it supports freedom, but only what they think is freedom.


Actually I don't believe in nationalism, socialism, or communism.

Chaplains are a great asset for soldiers. Not only for a guide of their individual faith, but also as a risk free counselor when one is troubled.

Like I said, as a soldier I wish to see a time of peace.

A quote from the murderer Che doesn't negate the atrocities committed by the Commies, to include Che himself.





Since the American military fights for money at the request of their Capitalist masters, I am quite sure that they do not want to fight and would rather have peace; however you are clearly indoctrinated by the position that the long history of American state terrorism, narco-terrorism, wars, military coups etc., is somehow justifiable and that all opposition to US state terrorism is simply "murder."



The title of this thread "Freemasonry and its Involvement In Colonialism, Wars, Genocides and Revolutions," I think has been a source of obfuscation, and I think that it would be better to have been called "Freemasons and thier Involvement In Colonialism, Wars, Genocides and Revolutions" since this is clearly something you admit to anyway; "Freemasonry" is really just an organisation of persons and it is the persons who are Freemasons who are involved in Ango-American state terrorism, narco-terrorism and imperialism.

.

Chaplains are a great asset for soldiers. Not only for a guide of their individual faith, but also as a risk free counselor when one is troubled.




Yes I have no doubt that promising eternal life in heaven with Jesus in return for state terrorist, narco-terrorist collaboration is very comforting; the genocidal Biblical deity is perfect for such a purpose.


Freemasonry is not a cult. Every point you have laid out there defining what a cult is has not held up to Freemasonry. And pictures of Bush doesn't somehow enhance your beliefs while nullifying mine.

Your impression of us being a militant gang is wrong.


It would be very rare for a member of a religious cult to refer to their religious cult as a religious cult; they generally only refer to competing religious cults as religious cults; however Freemasonry has many of the hallmarks of a Messianic anti-Communist religious cult, and due to the collective wealth of it's members and their control of the City of London, I consider them to constitute a threat to humankind; they are of course not the only Messianic religious cult in the world which poses such a threat, but they are certainly appear to be the most financially powerful of Capitalism's gangs..


So you can't name these prominent Freemasons? You can't even give me a list of those who you think are Masons?


Since Freemasonry is a secret society, it does not publish it's membership lists, but it is essentially the most economically powerful gang of organised Capitalists in the UK, and their influence is international. I similarly cannot give you a list of members of the Russian or Italian Mafia, or the Yakuza, the Triads or of the Bloods and the Crips, however a great deal of research has been done by journalists into these gangs, sufficient enough to know that they exist; similarly with Freemasonry.


I'm not denying anything yet. I just want you to post more than pictures from a catalog. I want to know where in our ritual does this hazing occur. I want it from the Masonic sources, not ex-Masons who may have their own agenda or those who say they were Masons but never were.


I refer to you to the numerous articles and testimonials on the thread "On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters" on: ttp://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread664293/pg1

In the study of a religion or the investigation of a secretive Capitalist gang, it is simply innapropriate to "only" refer to the claims made by gang members and religious cultists themselves; one must also refer to claims made by apostate cultists, ex-gang members and opponents of the cult or gang. Clearly the Masons themselves have sworn oaths not to reveal such things, and although there are Shriners on this forum, they clearly have not admitted to such hazing rituals, though frankly neither have they directly denied them; however there do exist contemporary testimonials and media articles regarding such hazing and I have posted them on the above thread.

Lux


edit on 18-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 

I will say fair enough for the clarification, but maybe for future reference use the correct terms to clarify at the beginning.

Well, right now, I'm in Italy, so come and try to stone me to death.

So every man of faith is a fanatic? This is illogical.

Again, your little pictures do not negate the atrocities committed by the godless Commies.




I do notice that the little bastards holding the signs have their faces hidden. Are they not proud of their stance? I doubt that they would say this to the face of the soldier or a veteran.

I'm not talking about the politics or the religious right. I was talking about the usefulness of chaplains on the battlefield. They are not always talking shop, but are also good counselors and will always extend a helping hand regardless of faith or lack thereof.

You're not exactly a neutral, independent, or unbiased party yourself when it comes to labeling Freemasonry anything. I'm not the one labeling others as religious cults, you are. So whatever body you belong to is likely to be the religious cult...by your own words and "logic".

There you go using "Messianic" again when referring to us, but you have yet to say who our messiah is. We are not exclusively connected to one religion nor are we a religion as WE DO NOT MEET THE NECESSARY REQUIREMENTS TO BE ONE. Nor should a member substitute Freemasonry as his religion - Pike even supports this point.

What you find to be a threat is a group of old men who donate millions to charity? Awesome. We're not the ones calling for the genocide of anyone. You are. You are the one spouting fascists ideals on this site, not us. You are also the one using vague terms and yet cannot name (or even hypothesize) one person who belongs to the Freemasons and also an elite capitalist.

Freemasonry isn't a secret society. We are a private organization. Secret societies hide the location of their meetings and their times. We most certainly do not. Freemasonry doesn't hide its membership, but it does respect the privacy of such members. Meaning that most Masons are well known and our members are often seen wearing rings or have pictures in their regalia. I mean if we are so secret how do you know so much about us or who some of our more famous members are? We cannot be that secret.

Not publishing its list is more out of respect of privacy than anything else. Every Grand Lodge has a comprehensive database of its members, but its not going to give the names to just anyone because of people like you who would more likely use it for the harassment of the members than for legitimate purposes. And as we are private organization it is up to us who we release our membership list to.

Testimony is not necessarily fact. I will wait while you look up which ritual this hazing occurs in. I'm looking for exact parts of the ritual, what officer takes part in it, and I'm also wanting sources.

I'm not a Shriner so I don't know, thus the reason I want you to prove it to me. I'm a member of the York Rite ie Royal Arch, Cryptic, Order of the Temple (Knights Templar), and Order of the Knight of York.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason

I'm not a Shriner so I don't know, thus the reason I want you to prove it to me.


Never heard of any whipped cream or electrified genitals as part of a Shrine initiation. I'm having to call B.S. on that one.


I'm a member of the York Rite ie Royal Arch, Cryptic, Order of the Temple (Knights Templar), and Order of the Knight of York.


Congratulations, didn't know you were in the College. I greet you as a SP of the WR.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 

I was invited after the Templar installations in Dec 09 and went through the ceremony in May 2010. A very fascinating order in regards to York Rite Freemasonry.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason

Well, right now, I'm in Italy, so come and try to stone me to death.



Oh my temporary conversion to Biblical fanaticism was purely satirical. I have now unconverted and my stoning to death edicts are withdrawn.


So every man of faith is a fanatic? This is illogical.


Those who are religious fanatics generally don't consider themselves to be fanatics. Persons suffering from the effects of religious hypnosis and indoctrination generally always conisder themselves to be perfectly normal, and in fact in many societies those suffering from this mental virus are in the vast majority.


Again, your little pictures do not negate the atrocities committed by the godless Commies.


Unfortunately there is simply no way for us to discuss this; no matter how much suffering war and mayhem has been caused by US imperialism and the International Dictatorship of Capitalism in general; those who are the defenders of such tyranny will always defend it and point to their own casualties sympathetically.



I do notice that the little bastards holding the signs have their faces hidden. Are they not proud of their stance? I doubt that they would say this to the face of the soldier or a veteran.


I do notice also that when the US state terrorists bomb their victims, that their faces are similarly hidden from their victims and that there is an increasing use of drone attacks controlled by faceless cowards in the safety of some distant bunker. Much of the 2000 tons of depleted uranium scattered on Iraq has been from distant shelling.

Henry Kissinger's view of to military men as "dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy," seems to be quite accurate. They are simply the expendible pawns for the the advancement of the International Dictatorship of Capitalism. If Iraq and Afghanistan's main exports had been cabbages, instead of oil and opium, there would simply have been no invasions.

Modern wars are not initiated by armies of Capitalism, but by politicians and economic elites whose own sons rarely go to war and are usually more concerned with economic conquest of the world.



Testimony is not necessarily fact. I will wait while you look up which ritual this hazing occurs in. I'm looking for exact parts of the ritual, what officer takes part in it, and I'm also wanting sources.


There are numerous and sufficient testimonials from Masons which litter the thread "On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters." on: ,www.abovetopsecret.com... to establish that such hazing rituals take place.







Originally posted by Masonic Light
Never heard of any whipped cream or electrified genitals as part of a Shrine initiation. I'm having to call B.S. on that one.




Would-Be Shriner Says He Was Subjected to Painful Initiation Rites
The Associated Press
Domestic News
PM Cycle
November 20, 1991

www.freemasonrywatch.org...

LEXINGTON, Ky. - Michael G. Vaughan says he went to the Shrine temple to learn the secrets of the universe. What he learned, he says, is that the Shrine's initiation rites involve electric shocks and the humiliation of having one's underwear filled with strawberries and whipped cream.

Now his lawsuit against the fraternity has become cloaked in nearly as much secrecy as the rites themselves.

A judge has ordered all participants in the lawsuit not to divulge details of the case. The case file has been sealed. And only those directly involved with the lawsuit know when and where to meet for the trial Dec. 9.

The lawsuit was filed last year by Vaughan, a 44-year-old brick mason who claims he was knocked unconscious and suffered other injuries during initiation rites in 1989 at the Oleika Shrine Temple in Lexington. He seeks an unspecified amount for medical bills, lost income and punitive damages.

Before Circuit Judge George Barker issued a gag order last summer, Vaughan said in interviews that he wanted to become a Shriner because the group promised spiritual and emotional fulfillment.

The Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine has about 725,000 members in the United States, Canada and Mexico. The group is renowned for its philanthropy: Its charitable foundation runs 19 orthopedic and three burn hospitals where needy children are treated free of charge.

But Shriners also are famous for their love of fun. Temples hold circuses and football games, and Shriners driving miniature cars and boats and wearing Arabian costumes, turbans and fezzes are familiar sights at parades across America.

"I assumed that the Shrine, as the word would imply, was like (God's) highest secret order, where a great secret would be learned once you got it," Vaughan said.

So, in 1989, he and about three dozen other initiates stood before an audience of Shriners and began a series of tests, which included walking on an electrified mat, sitting on an electrified bench and getting a jolt of electricity to their bare buttocks, the lawsuit says.

At one point, the lawsuit says, Vaughan's shorts were taped to his legs and he suspected a nearby sinkful of strawberries, whipped cream and ice cream was to be poured into them.

This last humiliation was not carried out, he says, because a table fell over and took him with it. The lawsuit says Vaughan hit his head on the floor and was knocked unconscious.

Vaughan did not pay his dues and never returned to the temple.

His lawsuit claims that the activities were painful and harmful and that he needed medical treatment because of them. He accuses the supervising Shriners of assault and fraud.

A court-ordered videotape of the temple's initiation devices confirmed much of Vaughan's story, including the existence of the electrified bench and mat.

Lawyers on both sides of the case and officials of the Oleika Shrine Temple refused to comment this week, citing the court order. Vaughan has an unlisted telephone number and could not be reached.

In court documents, the temple denied several of the allegations but acknowledged that shocks "of less than one second" are administered during initiation. The Shriners denied Vaughan was knocked unconscious.

Theodore Corsones, lawyer for the national Shriners' organization, said he could not comment on the case but that his own initiation as a Shriner was spiritually uplifting. He said he toured a Shriners hospital for crippled children.

"As for what went on in Lexington, I haven't the foggiest because I wasn't there," Corsones said.

Rules are issued each year on proper initiation techniques, he said.

Robert E. Manley, whose Cincinnati law firm specializes in fraternity law, said at least 35 states, including Kentucky, have laws that ban hazing. Manley is not involved in Vaughan's lawsuit.

Manely said he wasn't sure if Kentucky's hazing law would apply to the Shrine case. But if the allegations are true, Vaughan could file an assault and battery complaint, he said.



edit on 18-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: Formatting

edit on 21-3-2011 by SkepticOverlord because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 

Can you ever give a straight "yes or no" answer? I'm not asking hard questions. Even you should be able to give a simple yes or no. Is every person of faith a fanatic?

So you won't acknowledge the atrocities committed by the socialists or communists? So willing to attack the US, and yet so willing to avoid history.

Always so willing to change the subject and avoid responding to what I have written.

Again, I want the ritual text itself, not testimony or catalogs.



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 07:51 PM
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Also, if those men were members, if their Masonic bodies are like every other one, they should have a ritual book. Where was this evidence? Why did these "members" not lay it all out there?



posted on Mar, 18 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Lucifer777
 

Can you ever give a straight "yes or no" answer? I'm not asking hard questions. Even you should be able to give a simple yes or no. Is every person of faith a fanatic?





Part of the problem with giving a straight answer to that is that you and I obviously have different definitions of the term "fanatic." Religious and anti-Communist, anti-socialist political fanaticism is a widespread memetic virus and it's effects are unnoticibale by the fanatics themselves, since they consider their fanaticism to me normal. I refer you to my essay on this, "The Dangers of Religious Hypnosis and Indoctrination: The genocidal faiths of Christianity & Islam " on www.abovetopsecret.com...





The Psychology of a Slave. Submission to the Archons (authority figures).

A: The Milgram Experiment.




Unfortunately the conclusions of what is probably the most famous (and important) psychological study on human "obedience," the Yale University "Milgram Experiment (See: en.wikipedia.org...)" provide conclusive evidence that most human beings are willing to torture other human beings, if they are told by an authority figure to do so, and unfortunately the authors of the Bible are also considered the "highest" authority by Biblical fanatics. In the Milgram experiment the subjects were asked to apply electric shocks to actors who would pretend to cry out in pain; although nobody was really harmed, the subjects did not know that the persons whom they were torturing with electric shocks were actors.

Philosophy is a form of intellectual Anarchism (resistance to authority) which teaches us never to suspend critical thinking. Religion is simply a form of hypnosis and indoctrination which produces a servile, submissive slave; it is the perfect means of social control and the consequences can be genocidal.

The testimonials of children raised in the Hitler youth for example indicate that they did not fight for Hitler because they thought that he was evil, but rather because they thought that he was good; similarly with many of the fanatics of religion whose deities would be considered barbaric and criminally insane by most modern philosophers.

There is a very fine line between accepting what is irrational and inhumane in a text by a religious authority, such as, "It is God's Will to kill all devotees of other gods" and "torture this person."

B: The Joshua Experiment. The Dangers of Religious Indoctrination.




This experiment by an Israeli psychologist is explained in Richard Dawkin's "God Delusion;" it is a very similar experiment to the Milgram Experiment, but it deals ony with "religion," and it is less well known than the Milgram Experiment, but the conclusion is essentially the same, though it applies to "religious authority."

A class room of students in Israel were told the story of Joshua's Biblical holocaust of the Canaanite Tribes. It was essentially a "tribalistic" genocide. The students were then asked if they considered this to be morally justifiable. Most of the students agreed that it was morally justifiable.

The same story was then told about a different occasion of tribalistic genocide which did not involve the Bible or the ancient tribal deity of the Israelites. There are many examples of this in history, such as the recent Rwandan genocide of 1994 which was, just like Joshua's genocide a "tribalistic" genocide. When the students were asked if they considered such a genocide to be morally justifiable, the majority of them expressed the view that it was not.

These experiments show the dangers of religious indoctrination, where people who think themselves to be "good, godly, righteous, moral" are willing to torture people or to support tribalistic genocide just because some Archon (authority figure) tells them that it is OK, and an Archon can be some dead religious fanatic from 1000's of years ago whom most modernists would probably consider to be as ridiculous as the "Life of Brian" prophets, were they not blinded by religious indoctrination. The effects of submission to religious authorities and to the authority of the state are very subtle; probably most of those Israeli students would not consider themselves to be religious fanatics, nor would most of the subjects of the Milgram experiment consider themselves to be psychopaths.






Obviously since you are a theist and a member of the US military, the conclusions of the Joshua and Milgram experiment may seem normal to you; in fact a member of the US military who believes that US state terrorism, narco-terrorism and imperialism is "good" and "godly" would be considered quite "normal." Further since polls indicate that around half of the American adult population are waiting on the arrival of a global genocidal theocratic dictator (the "king of kings;" the Second Coming of Christ), it would seem to me that genocidal religious fanaticism is "normal." Of course to the Masons their "Christ" is not Jesus, but a living human king; never the less they are just one of many anti-Communist Messianic religious cults.


So you won't acknowledge the atrocities committed by the socialists or communists? So willing to attack the US, and yet so willing to avoid history.





I am not responsible for Stalin's atrocities, and the vast majority of modern Socialists, Anarchists and Communists do not support that form of tyrannical Communism. Debates over the suffering of human beings in the Capitalist system usually lead nowhere with an indoctrinated ideological Capitalist and militant religious fanatic such as yourself. The existence of the 200 million or so people who are always on the verge of starvation and the millions who have died at the hands of the US imperialists will be irrelevant to you.



Lux



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 01:53 AM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


Your logic is invalid in reference to the procurement of the skull and bones. Neither did you post the laws that support this nor can you say whether that skull and bones is real or just plastic. I mean did you even research how the Freemasons procure such props or are you just making assumptions? I'm guessing its the latter as you actually do no research, but just jump to conclusions.


Saying that the skull and bones using in freemasonry are made of plastic is absolutely false, your other mason friend Augustus, has already recognized real human skull and bones are used in masonic rituals. This shows how much you lie.

And you have not shown any scientific proof stating that, use of human skull and bones are absolutely required to teach moral values. No other philanthropic institution does such kind of wicked things.

And you have not stated from where freemasonry acquired such bones, If it was from India then govt. of India has already imposed a ban on sale of such human bones in 1980's. But criminal organizations like freemasonry, still acquire human bones illegally from black markets in India, china, africa etc.


PATNA, INDIA // Despite a ban on the export of human bones by the Indian government in the mid 1980s, the illegal trade is thriving in many parts of the country as a result of ineffective laws and poverty. Last week, Kamal Sah, 39, was caught carrying 67 human skulls and 10 bones on a bus in Chhapra, in Bihar state, by fellow passengers who had noticed a jagged bone sticking out of a bag beneath his seat. Source.



edit on 19/3/11 by vinay86 because: Content.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 05:10 AM
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Electric shock for Hypnosis in Freemasonry



The History of Hypnosis for Programming
A Masonic magazine for higher Masonic rites where sex magic is performed entitled Freemasonry Universal, Vol. 5, 1929, p. 58 states,

"Certain Forces are sent through the candidate’s body during the ceremony, especially at the moment when he is created, received and constituted an Entered Apprentice Freemason. Certain parts of the Lodge have been heavily charged with magnetic force especially in order that the Candidate may absorb as much as possible of this force. The first object of this curious method of preparation is to expose to this influence those various parts of the body which are especially used in the ceremony.

In ancient Egypt, there was another reason for these preparations, for a weak current of physical electricity was sent through the candidate by means of a rod or sword with which he was touched at certain points. It is partly on this account that at this first initiation the candidate is deprived of all metals since they may very easily interfere with the flow of currents."

Long story short, the Masonic lodges have been using hypnotism and electric shock in their initiation rituals for a long time. The combination of fear and hypnotism combine to help seal the lips of an initiate from telling what in some lodges are secrets of criminal activity. Source.


In India psychedelics and physical torture, has been used by various religious fundamentalists, to make armies of brainwashed disciples. The various techniques of hypnosis, have existed for decades, and are being used by professional hypnotists to create, functional mind controlled slaves. In case of Freemasons, such techniques are used by the capitalist elites whom ignorant brainwashed Freemasons consider as their invisible Great Architect/ Supreme being, they use hypnotism to make Freemasons do horrific crimes. And then using the same techniques, they erase any memories of such crimes. Freemasons remain in a state of hypnotism, until their hypnotist de-hypnotizes them. And he never does that.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by vinay86

Electric shock for Hypnosis in Freemasonry



The History of Hypnosis for Programming
A Masonic magazine for higher Masonic rites where sex magic is performed entitled Freemasonry Universal, Vol. 5, 1929, p. 58 states,

"Certain Forces are sent through the candidate’s body during the ceremony, especially at the moment when he is created, received and constituted an Entered Apprentice Freemason. Certain parts of the Lodge have been heavily charged with magnetic force especially in order that the Candidate may absorb as much as possible of this force. The first object of this curious method of preparation is to expose to this influence those various parts of the body which are especially used in the ceremony.

In ancient Egypt, there was another reason for these preparations, for a weak current of physical electricity was sent through the candidate by means of a rod or sword with which he was touched at certain points. It is partly on this account that at this first initiation the candidate is deprived of all metals since they may very easily interfere with the flow of currents."

Long story short, the Masonic lodges have been using hypnotism and electric shock in their initiation rituals for a long time. The combination of fear and hypnotism combine to help seal the lips of an initiate from telling what in some lodges are secrets of criminal activity. Source.


In India psychedelics and physical torture, has been used by various religious fundamentalists, to make armies of brainwashed disciples. The various techniques of hypnosis, have existed for decades, and are being used by professional hypnotists to create, functional mind controlled slaves. In case of Freemasons, such techniques are used by the capitalist elites whom ignorant brainwashed Freemasons consider as their invisible Great Architect/ Supreme being, they use hypnotism to make Freemasons do horrific crimes. And then using the same techniques, they erase any memories of such crimes. Freemasons remain in a state of hypnotism, until their hypnotist de-hypnotizes them. And he never does that.


I think that the general claim made in the thread title, that Freemasons have been heavily involved with "Colonialism, Wars, Genocides and Revolutions," has been pretty much conceded here by KSigMason, who is a member of the US military.

The linguistic confusion and the opportunity for Freemasons to confuse matters sets in whenever the term "Freemasonry" is used instead of Freemasons, since "Freemasonry" appears to be some kind of abstract concept in the minds of Freemasons, so once can accuse "Freemasonry" of anything and it will always be innocent because it is not a "thing" nor a "person," whereas that Freemasons are persons who have been involved in Colonialism, Wars, Genocides and Revolutions is quite obviously the case.

If God exists, She does not lend Herself to empirical observation and study, independently of Her Creations. In religious cults I believe that the "God" which is intuited by the cultists is essentially just the projected psyche of the cult leader or leaders. If you think about a person for long enough and meditate on them, one eventually begins to intuit their presence and it can seem very real. Similarly in cult religions, the "God" is essentially just the cult leader's psyche. In Freemasonry, God (i.e., the cult leader) is hidden in secrecy, but one can understand the nature of this God through studying the behaviour of the cultists, and it is essentially a Capitalist, state terrorist, anti-Communist God whose objective appears to be the accumulation of Capital and the economic enslavement of humankind; and this becomes the cultist's definition of goodness.

I think probably of all the hypnotic keywords used in religious and political hypnosis and indoctrination probably the essential keyword to understand is the word "good." The German Nazis did not love Hitler because they thought he was evil, but because they thought he was good. Children raised in Nazi orphanages were raised to think of Hitler as their Father and their Saviour and as a model of goodness.

In a famous experiment in Israeli schools, which Richard Dawkins outlines in his "God Delusion," when a psychologist told a story about genocide to children, they mostly responded by stating that such behaviour was evil, but when they were told the story of Joshua's biblical genocide of the Palestinians, they most respponded by stating that this was a "good" thing. Similarly in the Milgram experiment at Yale university, it was found that most people were willing to torture other people, if there was someone represeting an established authority instructing them to do so.

Similarly with Freemasonry, many of these men have been so conditioned, hypnotised and indocrtrinated that they consider themselves to be completely good, moral and virtuous, irrespective of whether they are engaged in global economic imperialism and Anglo-American state terrorism, narco-terrorism and genocide. I honestly think that most of them are so far gone that they actually truly believe this and that they can simply be categorised as untermensch (subhumans) who are genocidally and criminally insane. This is why Communists have to have the moral courage to be as brutally genocidal as the Capitalists, since such vermin are practically impossible to rehabilitate.

Part of the problem is that while outside the US, the US is widely considered to be the world's leading terrorist state, inside the US it is completely normal to consider the US to be "good" and their enemies to be "evil," though I do admit that some of their Islamic enemies are even worse, but their campaign against militant Islam is a relatively new one, and it is primarily for economic reasons; they really could not care less about brutal dictators in regions which have no economic interest to them. Prior to their current Islamic enemies, their main attention was on socialist and Communist states, and they have been engineering coups in their own economic interests in Latin America for decades which have brought many brutal and genocidal regimes to power.

In America today, the association of militant Neofascist imperialistic, state terrorist, narco-terrorist, anti-Communist behaviour with what is "good" is so ingrained into the American psyche that America has virtually become a model of a modern fascist state; there is of course an American revolutionary counterculture, but unfortunately they are by far the minority. They change the face of their President every few years, but the same genocidal military thugs remain who are a law unto themselves, as does the same economic dictatorship. In time the debates will end and apocalyptic war will begin; in a nuclear age, this is ultimately inevitable. It will not only ultimately be the Islamic and Socialist enemies of America which is their ultimate enemy but their own government and their economc and military elites.

Woe to America and her allies. All your evil shall fall back upon you a 1000 fold and 10,000 fold.

Lux


edit on 19-3-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis, and the text was not not diabolical enough.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by vinay86
Saying that the skull and bones using in freemasonry are made of plastic is absolutely false, your other mason friend Augustus, has already recognized real human skull and bones are used in masonic rituals. This shows how much you lie.


Oh really? Where was this?


And you have not stated from where freemasonry acquired such bones, If it was from India then govt. of India has already imposed a ban on sale of such human bones in 1980's. But criminal organizations like freemasonry, still acquire human bones illegally from black markets in India, china, africa etc.


PATNA, INDIA // Despite a ban on the export of human bones by the Indian government in the mid 1980s, the illegal trade is thriving in many parts of the country as a result of ineffective laws and poverty. Last week, Kamal Sah, 39, was caught carrying 67 human skulls and 10 bones on a bus in Chhapra, in Bihar state, by fellow passengers who had noticed a jagged bone sticking out of a bag beneath his seat.


Stop being an Indian apologist. It is very obvious that many of your fellow countrymen have no respect for the dead and will gladly sell the remains of others to the black market. This has nothing to do with Masonry and everything to do with greed. Why do you continue to allow this to happen?



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