Freemasonry and its Involvement In Colonialism, Wars, Genocides and Revolutions.

since bandwidth is apparently not a problem, I would like to ask you Lucifer, to please point to any part of the above posts that are true, or even relevant to this discussion. Your ability to provide information is indeed admirable, but the content of you information is pitiful. You think you can assume what God thinks? You don't even believe in God. A bit ironic is it not? You have no idea what masons do, yet you assume to know. You bring up hazing in college fraternities. Who cares? that is so far off topic it's humorous.

as far as your posts, less fluff, more substance would benefit everyone. Or you could continue to hide your ignorance as you have been doing.

Originally posted by network dude
since bandwidth is apparently not a problem, I would like to ask you Lucifer, to please point to any part of the above posts that are true, or even relevant to this discussion.

I would not write anything which I thought was untrue, unless I being purely satirical; it is really for you to point out what you consider to be untrue or irrelevant and offer argument which establishes that. Thus far I have not considered it necessary to retract anything I have written on Masonry on this forum, which I certainly would do, were I have written anything which was factually false.

You think you can assume what God thinks?

No, not at all; this is the essential problem with transcendental (up above) theists; usually no sooner have they claimed that the Universe has a Creator than they attempt to define this Creator and the Creator's human-nature-hating laws, such as the primitive Biblical or Islamic laws, and this definition of their god is always an anthropomorphic projection of their own personal beliefs and prejudices. If the theist is a Capitalist and anti-Communist then their definition of God will be of a Capitalist and anti-Communist; if the theist despises the Gentiles (foreigners other tribes) then their God will be similarly defined as being xenophobic and racist

You don't even believe in God.

Well "God" to a Freemason is my definition of a Capitalist Devil; however as to the question of whether the universe has a Creator or not; this is a philosophical question, however assuming that the Creator exists, it does not follow that She is the God as defined by Christians, Muslims, Freemasons etc.

Ultimately I am not a materialist, but rather in common with most human beings I have a spiritualistic cosmology; however I am limited in my definition of Mother Nature to the observation of nature, human nature and human psychology, and thus any religious laws which do not accord with human nature, or humanist ethics, I automatically reject; similarly any definition of God which is not merely an observation of nature, I tend to reject.

I often refer to God as a militant, Communist, Jewish, anti-Christian lesbian, however it is merely to make the point that God is just the projection of a person's beliefs. I do believe that there are intelligences in other dimensions, which are commonly referred to as gods, goddesses, angels etc., however I merely consider them to be ancestral spirits, some being benevolent and others being malevolent, and I think that this is what most people confuse with "God."

The "Argument from Design" still holds some water with me; the universe and human life appears to give the impression of being designed, although I do understand the Darwinian explanation. I find myself nevertheless having a great deal of agreement with and admiration of the High Priests of atheism, such as Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris, especially with regards to their criticisms of religion; however it still seems to me that human life is the product of design, which of course requires a Grand Designer(s) or Grand Achitect(s).

The idea of a Supreme Being who knows every thoughts of all the 7 billion persons (plus the trillions of possible ancestral spirits) sounds more like a giant computer program to me than a person, which is indeed what the "Holographic Universe" theory suggests; that the Creator or Creators are not merely Grand Physicists, but rather "Grand Programmers" who have programmed the mind to perceive reality in a giant virtual reality simulator.

I doubt that there is a being which the Christians describe which can communicate personally with all 7 billion persons; I adhere more to the ancient Egyptian idea that each person on earth have guardian angel spirits, which are essentially ancestal spirits, and that the mystical experience or communion with these "gods" and "goddesses" is mistaken for "God."

Irrespective of whether a peron believes in the gods or God, it does not define them as good or evil; and it is my judgement on Masonry that they are a malevolent force in the world concerned primarily with the accumulation of Capital and that their god can be identified as the god of Capitalism (i.e., the Devil, in his most malevolent form essentially).



With regards to the Biblical god, which Richard Dawkins describes as "arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully (Richard Dawkins: "The God Delusion"), this diabolical and primitive deity is obviously an anthropomorphic projection of the minds of the authors of the text, who defined their god as more fearsome, jealous, genocidal and bigger, badder and better than his competing tribal deities, however it should not be assumed that I do not believe that such diabolical deities do not exist; indeed it is my position that such demons do exist in another dimension; similarly with the Capitalist Devil whom the Masons refer to as their God.

Unfortunately belief in the evil and human hating Biblical deity is not just a harmless belief, such as the child's belief in Santa Clause or an imaginary friend; persons who consider such a demonic definition of a deity to be the definition of absolute goodness tend to psychologically attempt to emulate such qualities, which of course has an effect on their behaviour and thus the long history of Christian tyranny, slavery, genocides Inquisitions and human misery is unsurprising.

A bit ironic is it not? You have no idea what masons do, yet you assume to know. You bring up hazing in college fraternities. Who cares? that is so far off topic it's humorous.

It can be established beyond all reasonable doubt that hazing rituals have been a part of Masonic societies. I have already dealt with this matter on the thread: "On Masonic Charity. The world's largest non religious charity scam. On the Shriners and Jesters," on: www.abovetopsecret.com... . No matter how many times Masons deny such behaviour, it is does not make their denials any more true, nor negate the testimonials of persons who do claim that such rituals occur; such behaviour has been indellibly recorded in the history of Freemasonry.

With regards to myself having "no idea what Masons do," there is ample literature in print and on the Internet by Masonic writers themselves, including many of their rituals, and texts by apostate Masons and anti-Masons to come to an understanding of the behaviour and rituals of the Masons.

Traditionally the opponents of Masonry have been Christians, who have a similarly diabolical definition of "morality," while the anti-Capitalists, Socialists, Anarchists and Communists have tended to avoid studying "secret society,", since it is generally held that the Dictatorship of Capitalism is the economic tyranny of Capitalists, not Freemasons, however it does seem to me that the Masons are one of the major gangs of Capitalism and deserve some attention and study

Lux

reply to post by vinay86

So a Women's Task Force reported someone saying they were abused? Were these allegations ever proven? That paragraph is the only thing that mentions this. No follow up, no names, no Lodges involved? I mean any idiot can claim or allege anything without proof. I can say that atheists took me out back and beat me as a child.

Our rituals are not graphic nor do they evoke fear. That's absurd.

reply to post by Lucifer777

By the term God I am referring to the Creator.

God, quit cramming your humanist and communist crap down our throat. We get it, you hate economic and religious freedom.

We are not loan sharks or scammers.

Military Lodges are for those who travel with the military and still want to attend Lodge. Military business is something not discussed in the Lodge nor is the Master of the Lodge to instruct others to do something in their military capacity. Military orders to combat terrorists is not a Masonic dealing. Freemasonry does not deal with military matters.

And how can you assure that Masonic Lodge instruct people to kill? Have you sat in the Lodge when this happened?

reply to post by Lucifer777

You wouldn't write anything you thought was untrue? So you don't know for sure if it is or not? Your hatred blinds you about a great many things.

You're a strange individual as you attack Christian, Islamic, and Vedic faiths, but don't critic the Jewish faith? How can you critic Christianity, but not Judaism?

One's testimony doesn't negate our rebuttals just because you want to believe them. I highly doubt you can actually show us proof that these hazing rituals exist. A catalog is not proof. Our rituals are out there on the net and yet you have not been able to prove what degree hazes the candidate. You are a liar.

Freemasons Admitted they Initiated Revolutions and Wars

1. French Revolution:
Today Freemasonry openly acknowledges the French Revolution as its work. In the chamber of Deputies during the session on July 1, 1904 the Marquis de Rosanbo stated:

o "Freemasonry has worked in a hidden but constant manner to prepare the revolution... We are then in complete agreement on the point that freemasonry was the only author of the revolution, and the applause which I receive from the Left, and to which I am little accustomed, proves, gentlemen, that you acknowledge with me that it was masonry which made the French revolution."

Source.

Freemasons and American Revolution

The Freemasons through their relationship with the Knights Templar, retained strong ties and allegiance to Rome, even while pretending to opposed to it, as did the Rosicrucian Order.

The Masons along with the Rosicrucian Order would conspire to set up a government, and a shadow government through their networks of Lodges and Temples, that would be aligned with Rome and it’s ownership of the lands, and keep the Christians who existed more or less as unwitting soldiers and slaves to Rome from gaining control over the land, even while they were given the illusion that they had control of the land, and freedom from Rome, and freedom in general.

Bacon outlined a strategy for the Masons and Rosicrucians who reported to him and were under his control of building the 13 Colonies, into a reconstituted Caesar’s 13th Legion that along with Rome and London would bring about a new Atlantis and Golden Age and a One World Government.

The Freemasons would take control and charge of running the revolution, that would be financed in part by the House of Dan through the Bank of London, and the French Monarch, who contested the English Kings claim to France from the days of William of William the Conqueror and the Frankish Carolingian King that had granted those lands, that the Bourbon Kings of France no longer recognized. All Roads Lead To Rome Thread.

Originally posted by vinay86
Source.

Paul Fisher is a rabid anti-Mason and Catholic apologist and his opinions in the work cited are extremely biased and in some instances are based on fictious events.

All Roads Lead To Rome Thread.

Citing another thread on a discussion forum is not an admissable source.

Nice try, keep playing.

PARANOID DELUSIONAL DISORDER

Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated. source

Pleae read the bolded portion closely.

reply to post by vinay86


Earlier, this is your reply to an on-topic (if short) rebuttal:

You didn't even read anything, and you made this one liner. Mods should ban you.

You haven't actually responded to a counterclaim or rebuttal in over a page. Why the double standard?

I thought the Oaths of secrecy and putting noose around necks was only symbolic, but this video states Freemasons ritually murdered a man for revealing it's secrets.

Google Video Link

I didn't knew, Freemasons use actual human skull and bones in their rituals, at 9:22 in the following video the host shows a real human skull and bones, I wonder how Freemasons procured human remains, It is illegal to possess any such human remains, only for research purposes such human remains can be kept. I think these bones might have came from, their own members, who were a threat to them. It would have been much easier for them to wipe the records of their own deceased members. If all of the free-masonic lodges kept, human bones in their lodges, then I can't even think, how many of them were murdered.

Google Video Link

The master of that lodge, dodged the question, by saying the skull and bones are part of the regalia of the lodge. That is only in symbolism, but their were actual skull and bones present in his lodge. He says, It is used to teach mortality, is such a thing even needed to be taught. Where it contributes towards teaching of moral values. An Ex-Freemason says it is part of Ritual Murder.

Both of the above documentaries ask the same question, Why Freemasons don't want to, declare their masonic status in public records. This is a very simple public request, Freemasons should not have any problem with that, they are not asking to see, what happens inside the closed doors of a masonic lodge. They only want to find out, which politicians or government official are Freemasons.

People would keep saying, freemasonry is a secret society, unless Freemasons who are in politics, government, army, police, law etc. declare themselves as masons in public records. The more freemasonry opens up, the less allegations they would have to face from public.

But I think Freemasons want to hide behind secrecy, because Freemasons are thief's and murderers, and only criminals use shield of secrecy to hide their misdeeds.

reply to post by vinay86

I do notice that you never have an original thought and you constantly suck off of other anti-Masons. Who is the mindless drone here? Was revolution against monarchies and tyrannies a bad thing? Especially when they brought about a free, unified country? I love how in one breath you say we are nothing but aristocrats and tyrants, but then call us revolutionaries who bring about the downfall of aristocrats and tyrants? Seems like a contradiction to me.

1. Did the freemasons cause the French Revolution of 1789?

French freemasons of the 18th century were, in the main, aristocrats, priests, military officers or bourgeoisie. They were not in sympathy with radical social change. A growing belief that a ruler governed by right of the people and not by right of God provided a backdrop for much of the French Revolution. Whatever the actions of individual freemasons, Freemasonry as a whole was indifferent to politics.

"Not only did Freemasonry have no part in instigating the movement but it was one of the principal sufferers... and the majority of Paris Masters lost their lives." Before the Revolution the Grand Orient of France had 67 lodges in Paris and 463 in the Provinces, Colonies and Foreign Countries; the Grand Lodge had 88 in Paris and 43 outside. During the Revolution period only two or three of the Paris lodges kept open.1

There were too many people, too many ideas, too many events, too many grievances, to ascribe the actions of the French Revolution to any one source. In general, those who "blame" Freemasonry for causing the French Revolution are more interested in blaming Freemasonry for the bloody Terror, than in crediting Freemasonry for creating a system of representational democracy. The French Revolution was a complex process in which freemasons played a role, but to assign Freemasonry, as a body, a controlling role in the Revolution displays a simplistic and unrealistic view of the history of the period.

It is believed that Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821) was initiated into Army Philadelphe Lodge in 1798. His brothers, Joseph, Lucian, Louis and Jerome, were also freemasons. Five of the six members of Napoleon’s Grand Councel of the Empire were freemasons, as were six of the nine Imperial Officers and 22 of the 30 Marshals of France.

French General of the Revolutionary Army, Jean Victor Moreau (1763-1813) was one time Master of Loge Parfaite Union in Rennes, France. He headed the Republican and Royalist conspiracy against Napoleon.2

1. Henry Wilson Coil, Coil’s Masonic Encyclopedia. Richmond, Virginia : Macoy Publishing. 1995. p. 274.
2. William R. Denslow, 10,000 Famous freemasons. Independence, Missouri : Missouri Lodge of Research, 1957.

SOURCE

2. Mazzini and Garibaldi were members of the GOI, but I have not record of the other two. Was a unified, free Italy a bad thing? Actually the Risorgimento movement was a unification movement to unite Italy as one country. Revolution was in the air. First the US, then the Italian's neighbor the French. It was just a matter of time. Italy is an interesting place to visit (which I'm currently doing). To have Freemasonry in the heartland of the Papacy is a dangerous thing. Many of the older members recall being harassed constantly by the Police and Military police forces. Visiting here and interviewing so many Masons I have defintely seen the evil of a registry and vow never to be on one by choice.

Nowhere can I find that the Black Hand were Freemasons other than on blatant anti-Mason sites. Heresay is not evidence.

In Europe the Church had such dominance that if anything the new governments sought to restrict power of the original lobbyist, the original international kingdom.

P2 lost its charter and all Masonic bodies renounce what they did.

Nothing but propaganda from anti-Masonic sources as far as I'm concerned. Words taken out of context. No matter what I put, you will twist the words to damn the Freemasons. No matter what you hate the Freemasons.

Originally posted by KSigMason
2. Mazzini and Garibaldi were members of the GOI, but I have not record of the other two.

Now, I'd be curious to know your sources on Mazzini. The book 10,000 Famous Freemasons lists him, but it is commonly believed that the author of that book actually confused Giuseppe Mazzini for Giuseppe Garibaldi. I've seen essays on the GOI website that indicate there's no evidence that Mazzini ever actually joined.

Originally posted by vinay86
I didn't knew, Freemasons use actual human skull and bones in their rituals, at 9:22 in the following video the host shows a real human skull and bones, I wonder how Freemasons procured human remains, It is illegal to possess any such human remains, only for research purposes such human remains can be kept.

In the United States it is not illegal to own human remains. The following exerpt is from a store that sells all types of remains.

In short, there is no law at the U.S. Federal level prohibiting you from having a human bone in your possession. The fact that some people believe there is or believe there should be such a law is irrelevant.
source

I think these bones might have came from, their own members, who were a threat to them.

I am sure you will appreciate the irony of this vinay; from the same source:

...prior to 1987, the majority of human bones for sale here and in other countries were prepared in India.

It would appear that you have a better chance of knowing who it was then we do. I love the internet.

He says, It is used to teach mortality, is such a thing even needed to be taught.

No, no one should be teaching morals. Morals are bad and could cause one to think of others first. Then people would not be able to go around and do whatever the hell they wanted to do without regard for anyone else. Good catch on that vinay.

Why Freemasons don't want to, declare their masonic status in public records.

Because, Herr Goebels, we live in a free society where privacy is respected. You may not understand the concept of privacy, but nevertheless, it is something that we are all entittled to practice.

reply to post by vinay86


you keep missing the point. None of us can speak for what some men did or said in 1908, or 1904, or 1954 unless we were there. I can tell you that US masonry has no structure capable of any of the things you claim. I can say that because I am involved in the structure and workings of US masonry. You bring up blogs and opinions as sources for your outlandish claims. That stuff won't fly here or anywhere. I am not sure which masons pissed in your corn flakes, but whomever it was must have done a bang up job at it. I am sorry you live in a poor country. Perhaps you should channel some of your energy into trying to uplift your countrymen and bring up the living standards in your home rather than continuously trying to find someone to blame for your misfortune. We who are alive today can do nothing to change what happened in the past. We can control what happens in the future. quit whining and do something.

and please tell everyone which part of masonry uses human bones. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but I will say that I have never seen or heard of it before.

reply to post by JoshNorton

For Mazzini and Garibaldi I used Freemasonry BCY. One of the Lodges in Florence is named after Garibaldi. In the Florence Masonic Temple there are pictures of Garibaldi, along with a few others. I thought I saw a picture of Mazzini, but I'm not sure. I'll have to ask one of the Brothers tonight at the celebrations.

Maybe the author of the Mazzini piece used the confused material.

Something interesting I've found in my travels is that the UGLE recognizes the Grand Lodge of Italy, but the Grand Masters Conference of North America recognizes the GOI, from which the York Rite extends from, also noting that the Grand Commandery falls under the Grand Encampment of the US.

reply to post by vinay86

It's ironic that you brought up "Risorgimento" as today is the 150th Anniversary of the Unification of Italy.

reply to post by KSigMason


As far as I can tell (my research is limited), I don't think anybody has a monopoly on credible Mazzini biography. He appears to be one of the more interesting figures of Italian unification.

reply to post by OnTheLevel213

From what I got from my Italian friend, he is basically the Thomas Jefferson of Italian Masons. It is really vague and there is no evidence, but being a revolutionary of his country he is held in high regard.

Without the French Revolution humanity today would still be in a state of darkness. My deepest gratitude to those who initiated that Revolution.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Let's give thanks to Germain for that one then.

Peace

Mazzini was also the founder of the Italian Mafia!

www.moneyteachers.org...

www.freemasonrywatch.org...

Guiseppi Mazzini was the individual that Albert Pike corresponded with in his letters on Three World Wars that would unite the world under a Luciferian Dictatorship. Like Pike, Mazzini was Illuminati and held the rank of 33 degree Mason. He is also the founder of the MAFIA, which is named after him. (Source) Law Enforcement has known about the relationship between Freemasonry, and La Cosa Nostra ("Our Thing") for quite some time.

"The committee feels that the link between Cosa Nostra and institutions is mostly through the "Massoneria" (freemasonry):

The fundamental terrain on which the link between Cosa Nostra with public officials and private professions was created and reinforced is the Massoneria. The Massoneria bond serves to keep the relationship continuous and organic. The admission of members of Cosa Nostra, even at high levels, in Massoneria is not an occassional or episodical one, but a strategic choice. The oath of allegence to Cosa Nostra remains the pivot point around which "uomini d'onore" (men of honor) are prominently held. But the Massoneria associations offer the mafia a formidible instrument to extend their own power, to obtain favors and privileges in every field: both for the conclusion of big business and "fixing trials", as many collaborators with justice have revealed." (Ibid)


Mazzini was born in France and his father was a "Jacobin" (Freemason-Illuminati group that caused the French Revolution). Like his father, who was also a University Professor, Mazzini gravitated towards Secret Societies.

Originally posted by xuenchen
Mazzini was also the founder of the Italian Mafia!

I hope you were kidding. The Mafia existed in some form long before the Italian revolution.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
I hope you were kidding. The Mafia existed in some form long before the Italian revolution.

Indeed. And Mazzini, not being Sicilian, would not have qualified for membership in the mafia.