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No Fly Zone Implementation over Libya

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posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 09:04 AM
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With the alarming news that Libya can/maybe using its airborne assets to conduct military and psy-ops against its people, the UN/NATO are looking to put in place a mechanism to quickly deploy assets in the region. The objective is to be able to implement a no fly zone over Gaddafi controlled (only?) parts of Libya and bbring a halt to any military aerial activity not approved by the UN/NATO.

Since Aviano is too far north, the primary staging locations used to enforce such a NFZ would be NASSIG (Sigonella, Italy @ 37°24′06″N 014°55′20″E )? Squadrons from the 31st FW could be redeployed to NASSIG to enforce NFZ over Gaddafi controlled coastal cities (Tripoli incld?).

We also have the CSG lead by the Enterprise steaming up the Red Sea to deploy in the area. NFZ enforcement would be carried out by CVW-1 onboard the Big E. If NASSIG is tasked with coastal enforcement, the Big E could reposition itself deeper in the Gulf of Sidra say nearer to Benghazi, thus able to cover area much deeper into Libya.

Not sure of how Malta can or will be used (if at all?)

Libyan (Gaddafi) Assets:

en.wikipedia.org...

Note that the Libyan AF under Gaddafi control has suffered major attrition due to defections (Mirage F1 x 2).
Here are some pictures of 2 defecting Libyan a/c and Helis that landed at Malta after refusing(?) to bomb civilian targets.
Then there are 2 ejections (1 Su-22 and 1 Su-24) . Also many a/c have been captured by revolting forces.
Also one Mi-24 attack heli is claimed to be shot down by AA directed by revolting forces.

Another point that comes to mind are the two encounters between the USN and Libyan jets in the Gulf of Sidra:
Gulf Of Sidra 1981
Gulf Of Sidra 1989

All in all, it seems like a lost cause for the Gaddafi controlled AF as they are fighting on one front already and if the UN/NATO deploys its assets then it will be all over. Though it can make for some interesting engagements.
edit on 1-3-2011 by Daedalus3 because: url snafu




posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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Nice to see the UN/NATO thinks it has the right to interfere in a governments internal operations....



posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by RichardPrice
Nice to see the UN/NATO thinks it has the right to interfere in a governments internal operations....



That's what happens when you openly bomb and praise the death of protestors.

Sorry.

I know they have oil and U.S gov't cracks down on their own protestors..
It's just that kind of world.



posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by CanadianDream420

Originally posted by RichardPrice
Nice to see the UN/NATO thinks it has the right to interfere in a governments internal operations....



That's what happens when you openly bomb and praise the death of protestors.

Sorry.

I know they have oil and U.S gov't cracks down on their own protestors..
It's just that kind of world.


My point is, for better or worse, Libya is a sovereign nation - what right does any other nation have to say "you are not allowed to do X within your own borders"?

This is tantamount to nations being able to control the actions of other nations through threat of force alone, when they do not agree with the actions of that nation. Exactly what the UN was meant to prevent.

I don't like what is happening within Libya any more than you do, but this action against Libyas own government forces by foreign nations is very very disturbing.



posted on Mar, 1 2011 @ 03:16 PM
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While I didn't quite intend this to be a political thread (more of a tactical one rather), but my opinion is that anything with a UN mandate is quite legitimate and justified.

However, we are talking about a UN mandated no fly zone here, not a full blooded unilateral invasion. That to against a fat dictatorial and delusional regime which came to power through a coup (4 decades ago!) and is trying to bomb its people who are revolting..
Sort of different from the the other scenarios.

Why wasn't it applied in Darfur? Well you got me there.



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 04:47 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
While I didn't quite intend this to be a political thread (more of a tactical one rather), but my opinion is that anything with a UN mandate is quite legitimate and justified.

However, we are talking about a UN mandated no fly zone here, not a full blooded unilateral invasion. That to against a fat dictatorial and delusional regime which came to power through a coup (4 decades ago!) and is trying to bomb its people who are revolting..
Sort of different from the the other scenarios.

Why wasn't it applied in Darfur? Well you got me there.


Its not really different from other scenarios, but it is a hard decision to come to terms with and that is why I don't expect everyone to understand my point.

If you continue to let the UN decide what a government can do within its own borders, you run real risks.

Yes, you gain the immediate benefit of saving thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of lives.

But theres the long term to consider - the precedent that a government is no longer the supreme power within its own country. Like it or not, a democratic government is not the single and only way to hold power within a country - its not a natural right, its not "the" way of it. A countries neighbour doesn't have the right to enforce its views that a countries government is illegitimate, and neither do the UN - which is why there are so many dictatorships and oppresive regimes within the UN.

If you remove power from the government to operate totally and completely within its borders in this case, then where does it stop? If you can justify it to save lives here, then you can justify it to stop the death penalty, stop certain religious activities, regulate taxation etc etc.

The UN is for interaction between nations, it does not have the mandate to act within a country without that countries authorisation. And yes, this has wide ranging implications for the Iraq debacle as well - a lot of the stuff that the US and UK did even before the invasion was not authorised by the UN, including the no-fly zones!



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by RichardPrice
 

Richard I whole heartedly agree with you and what's more consider the following.

If the UN is so interested only in the altruistic ideals of freedom of expression/ freedom from fear or death, and NOT anything to do with oil, then where the hell are they in Myanmar? Or for that matter why haven't they formally re-entered North Korea? After all nobody believes that either of those two countries is a democratic and peaceful paradise now do they?

LEE.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by thebozeian
reply to post by RichardPrice
 

Richard I whole heartedly agree with you and what's more consider the following.

If the UN is so interested only in the altruistic ideals of freedom of expression/ freedom from fear or death, and NOT anything to do with oil, then where the hell are they in Myanmar? Or for that matter why haven't they formally re-entered North Korea? After all nobody believes that either of those two countries is a democratic and peaceful paradise now do they?

LEE.



Good point. I think it reveals that the civil unrest in these Muslim countries has all been staged by the elites in the West. The sycophantic news media, with it's constant flattery of the revolution is another dead give away.



posted on Mar, 9 2011 @ 04:02 AM
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And the madness comes out in all its glory...

The Australian Foreign Minister has spoken out in favour of a no-fly zone, because it would "redress the balance".



Not at all because we are facing escalation of this conflict that is still very one-sided in terms of the capacity of Gaddafi to do damage on the civilian population. I don't think there is any lack of moral clarity about this. There are real arguments about what would actually work best, whether it is a no-fly zone or support for people on the ground.

My own view is that a no-fly zone would be extremely effective in redressing the balance - the imbalance - we are seeing at the moment.


www.bbc.co.uk...

Seriously, this guy wants to make the civil war "fair"! He wants to take away the advantages that Gaddafi has because its an imbalance in his favour!

Talk about insanity.



posted on Mar, 19 2011 @ 06:14 PM
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Well whatever our opinions, it has started.

BBC
CNN

Phase 1 seems to involve SEAD operations using US / UK missile strikes and French air support with NATO/French aerial recon.
Interestingly, its been repeatedly mentioned that US activities would only involve initial operations before a handover to a coalition commander.
Also notably the Big E has not been a part of the activities as yet, while the French Charles De Gaulle is touted to leave port.
The French/British seem to be leading this one.

Also interestingly, a surprisingly clear set of video caught a MiG -23 ablaze with the pilot seeming to eject (parachute not deployed)
www.bbc.co.uk...

EDIT: Reports in that the MiG-23 shot down was a rebel jet, but apparently it was was a fratricide! Pilot ejected (as noted in my post earlier) but reports claim that the parachute did not open in time

edit on 19-3-2011 by Daedalus3 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 07:12 AM
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Update:

F-15E taking part in Libyan air strikes 'crash-lands' near rebel stronghold of Benghazi. Pilots ejected safely. One recovered immediately, and the other 'was taken care of by rebel forces' before being recovered. Both pilots now out of Libya.
Crash currently attributed to mechanical failure.

More structural issues? Yet to be seen..

Pictures
edition.cnn.com...



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by Daedalus3
 


A question: If they could get to the pilot, wouldn't they send in a team to "clean up" the wreckage? I imagine that there are some pieces of equipment that they would prefer not to have floating around. An airstrike might accomplish the same thing, but it seems there are a number of people milling about. Is there a procedure they follow in theses circumstances or is it addressed on a case by case basis?



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by Virgil Cain
reply to post by Daedalus3
 


A question: If they could get to the pilot, wouldn't they send in a team to "clean up" the wreckage? I imagine that there are some pieces of equipment that they would prefer not to have floating around. An airstrike might accomplish the same thing, but it seems there are a number of people milling about. Is there a procedure they follow in theses circumstances or is it addressed on a case by case basis?


Normally they do hit the wreckage with an airstrike, but in sensitive locations and operations such as this one where there are crowds of civilians and media onsite they don't do it.

As to why not sending in a cleanup team, they would be operating on foreign soil, many miles from a support base (since none are in-country), and they would have to have significant close air support - and again they would have to deal with the media and civilians on-site.

Many times during the Iraq invasion, the US bombed M1A1 tanks that had been disabled and abandoned - despite the fact that there were now civilians on and around the tank, the difference is that there was no media and no close scrutiny.

An F-15 Strike Eagle is quite old, its doubtful that there is much on the aircraft that is worth the negative PR.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by RichardPrice
 


Thanks for the reply. That makes sense. I suppose this was the thrust of my question which you have clearly and thoroughly answered.



posted on Apr, 25 2011 @ 03:11 PM
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Not only does Libya have some of the world's sweetest crude OIL. BUT....its OIL being very close to the surface, costs a mere Dollar per barrel to extract !!

But the bigger reason as to why the UN is involved has more to do with Khadaffi actually planing to form a Union of African nations using a GOLD Backed currency called the Dinar.

This would cut the Bank of England and her subsevient Banks such as the FED completely out of Africa's vast Natural Resources...

The Banksters can't have that ....they have to own everything and everyone .....

If you don't believe it. Try stopping paying property taxes on your home and see who claims the home that you thought that you owned....and instead see who REALLY owns it.





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