I want to leave The United States of America, I've had it.

Don't leave, OP. You are simply experiencing a MASSIVE case of fight or flight. Stay. FIGHT. MAKE A CHANGE. Will it happen in your lifetime? Probably not. But you can die knowing you helped make a change for the future generations. Not turning your back as the machine gets bigger and stronger. You are not alone. We all want to be happy, maybe you can be happiER somewhere else, but this will just keep growing, and growing, and your children, or their children will be left with a massive beast to deal with, because you couldn't find happiness, in CREATING happiness for them. Think it over. To get to the point you are at, you have been through a great deal of information. Time to make lemonade.

Oh why leave one of the most beautiful countries in the world? You wont find landscapes like those in your homeland anywhere in Western World..!! Try to change your views - pump up your good feelings for those around you, friends neighbours, birds and stars. Let politics and such zombifing worries besides. Out the US things are pretty much the same Im afraid.

But well - if you leave sooner or later you'll be homesick --- I've experienced that before - There's nothing like quit home for a couple of years to re-fuel love for one's land.

Kind regards
and thank you for opening your feelings up

ATT

reply to post by sylvie

Originally posted by sylvie

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by St-Patrick

 

Originally posted by St-Patrick
IMHO Europeans are much more civilized, free, down to earth and consciously awaken than us North Americans.

As someone who knows both places very well, I'd say you'd be pretty wrong about that.

As a native German and now US citizen, I totally agree with you.

Sad, but true.

I always roll my eyes when someone makes this point about Europeans.

Only been mentioned once here so far, but here is your solution.

I live on a boat, and I am a PT. (Perpetual Tourist, Prior Taxpayer, Permanent Traveler) You can become one too, and it is THE way to go. You don't have to live on a boat, but to me that is the best part of it. I have paid NO taxes in years, almost my whole life. No one is after me, I can do whatever I want all the time. If I don't like where I am, I can pull up the anchor and go at a moment's notice. On top of that, if TSHTF for real, I don't need a "bugout bag", I basically LIVE in my "bugout" and the bag is always packed! Literally, I could weigh anchor and leave right now and live in the middle of the ocean for at least six months without coming to land. If the S hitting the fan is that bad, that still might be the end of it, like a nuclear war.

Governments think they OWN their own "citizens" or 'subjects" . However, in every country, they love tourists. You are totally under the radar, cops don't f$$k with you, everyone treats you much better.

With the advent of the Internet, being a PT is now much easier. Before doing anything, figure out a way to make money on the internet. Money made in cyberspace is not being earned in ANY country, so who are you supposed to pay taxes to?

I first learned of it indirectly from a guy in Brazil. He loved Brazil, and especially the Brasileras, (they are HOT) he was an American but his mom was Mexican, so he already had two passports. He was raised bilingual, so with fluent Spanish it was easy for him to learn Portuguese. He would simply buy and sell golf clubs and other golf stuff on eBay. He would spend about an hour a day in the internet cafe, buy and sell a few sets of clubs, and then be like "let's go pick up some girls!" He paid no tax, worked minimally, and was loving life.

Check out this website to start, do a lot of research to find out. PT is the BEST way of life in almost EVERY way. You must like travel and meeting new exotic people without shooting at them. Learning other languages is very helpful too but not a necessity. It will, however, make everything a lot easier if you can speak the local lingo.

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


Cool, if you're going abroad can i buy your legal guns?
You simply wont need em anywhere else in the world as they do not need guns on any other continent.
I guess they got crime nailed down, and nobody is ever oppressed.
Ok ending sarcasm, have you ever thought of going Freeman?
There are settlements here in the US that have likeminded folk.
The grass is not always, err ever greener on the other side. it is just a different shade of brown.

There is no place to go.

You have to fix it in place.

Got the tools?.

?

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by sylvie

 

Originally posted by sylvie

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by St-Patrick

 

Originally posted by St-Patrick
IMHO Europeans are much more civilized, free, down to earth and consciously awaken than us North Americans.

As someone who knows both places very well, I'd say you'd be pretty wrong about that.

As a native German and now US citizen, I totally agree with you.

Sad, but true.

I always roll my eyes when someone makes this point about Europeans.

My European point of view...

EUROPE: The Cradle of This Modern World, a small land secluded for a thousand years killing each other in the name of land, resources or crowns. We sailed away to change scenarios and keep on with the battles and blood spill. By the 20th Century we wanted even more and gave reason to the rest of the World for a couple of WWs, in the name of -- who knows. Now, we've finally reached peace and admnistrative unity, so.. no more killings.

We are therefore peaceful and united people that travel to an uncertain future with a thirst-for-blood-psycho-kit in our History backpack. Too old to kill, too old to be victims anymore.

Innocence and Natural Happiness is IMHO what makes the difference at both sides of the Atlantic. You used to have it, we totally lack it.

reply to post by xavi1000



It is pretty disgusting isn't it? Funny you should mention it, in the past 3 days I have seen two shows that said 9/11 happened in 2000. I dont remember what the first one was on, the one I saw last night was on Tosh.0 though.

reply to post by AboveTheTrees

Originally posted by AboveTheTrees
Now, we've finally reached peace and admnistrative unity, so.. no more killings.

I'm not so convinced of that.

Moreover, I repeatedly see troubling evidence that Europe may easily return to that bloody history you mention.

In my opinion, things are much worse in Europe today than even during the cold war.

The world has changed.

Europe has changed.

None for the better.

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by AboveTheTrees

 

Originally posted by AboveTheTrees
Now, we've finally reached peace and admnistrative unity, so.. no more killings.

I'm not so convinced of that.

Moreover, I repeatedly see troubling evidence that Europe may easily return to that bloody history you mention.

In my opinion, things are much worse in Europe today than even during the cold war.

The world has changed.

Europe has changed.

None for the better.

Agree on last remarks.

As I see it- there wont be national wars in Europe anymore as long as the Supra-national EU Government rules here. And it will for a long time yet, I think. It's like a screw top on a soda bottle.

You mean some kind of Revolution of the People?

EDIT: I dont think that will happen. We are used to demonstrations, no true harm. Long-term riots wont go on. Im pretty sure and Im thankful for that. Things are not THAT wrong. I mean, we've caused worse harm to other lands and ourselves for years. There are financial problems, but it's time to morally bow our heads and assume this crisis, in social terms. Nowaday's Peace is our biggest triumph in History.

Originally posted by Ellen15
The OP has already stated they cant afford to leave the US "who am I kidding Im a$$broke"

Hey, can still do it if you get a boat, sail around the world!
can get an ocean-worthy sailboat for under $5,000 on craigslist typically.

Considering how most nations have been heavily infiltrated,
though Asia and the pacific Islands seem to have fairly free economies.

In North America or Canada having a business is preposterously difficult,
for instance people aren't allowed to vend or advertise for free outside on street.
Basically meaning you have to profit more than you spend in ridiculous municipal fees.

In third-world countries there is typically much more freedom,
and people are allowed to vend their wares on the streets,
though even there westernism has infiltrated,
and the squashing of abilities ensued. *shrugs*

Yep so while living on the high-seas seasteading,
can always forage for food from the land, and water.
I'd suggest getting a concrete boat if you can find one,
they are easier to repair and have longer life-expectancy.

I am posting it here as well as the other thread

Just take a peek at what typical America is now, and tell me why not to run out the door......

www.peopleofwalmart.com...

reply to post by lowki



they also need to be on the lookout for muslim terrorist pirates
bear in mind obama lets them get away with murder

Originally posted by AboveTheTrees

Innocence and Natural Happiness is IMHO what makes the difference at both sides of the Atlantic. You used to have it, we totally lack it.

Wow, you've just expressed what I've always felt but have never been able to put my finger on. It's true that Europeans (or let me narrow that down to Germans, since that's what I know best) are much more cynical, miserable, low-key depressed, and world-weary than Americans. Few Germans feel true joy about the little, simple things anymore. That's one of the things that drew me here: Americans were SO much nicer and more optimistic than Germans, it felt to me like breathing fresh, fragrant air after having been imprisoned in a stuffy, musty-smelling basement my entire life.

To see how degenerated the "old world" is, you only have to watch German TV. German movies are often flicks with very little action, a lot of pointless philosophizing, and very, very dark thinking. By dark I don't mean sinister, just an incredible cynicism, a forlorn fatalism, disgust with life in general, and the conclusion that life is pointless and dreary and something that has to be endured rather than enjoyed.

German comedy is even worse; compared to the rather innocent humor here in the US, it feels very degenerate and dark to me, usually laced with not only sexual innuendo, but the crudest sexual explicitness you can imagine. Other comedians who used to be hugely successful, like Helge Schneider, display a kind of bizarre humor that no one here would even be able to comprehend. Same goes for German modern music. There's no starker discrepancy than between the old German pop music from the '50s, which was incredibly cheesy, and the current music, much of which drips with allusions to death and decay. It makes me shudder just to think about it.

Sorry to list all those mass media examples, but the TV and music of a culture can tell you a lot about the mentality of the people, IMO. And when they're not drinking themselves into a good mood or total stupor, Germans are some of the most pessimistic and negative people I've ever encountered.

Here in America, if you say you want to try something new and unusual, people might look at you funny but will hasten to encourage you and be generally very supportive, or at least politely keep their mouths shut. In Germany, everyone and their cat will tell you flat-out that you're insane to even want to try and that you're gonna go down, bro. And most likely they will watch with glee if you should indeed fail. It's no coincidence that the German word "Schadenfreude" (taking pleasure in the failure of others) has no equivalent in the English language.

I could go on and on, but won't. The Southern European countries have a different, more sunshiny mentality, but they have their own problems, so I wouldn't go there either.

Where to go? I'm planning on a longish post to answer that (to be continued).

reply to post by sylvie


Thank you and agree. I see we as Europeans agree about what it means to be European today. I also share your views regarding open disposal of the soul in US ppl. We are truly sombre beings in comparison. Im from Southern Europe and yes,you're right, we may have more sunshiny views in average, but the seed of grey is rooted inside too Where to go? I think the travel has to go inland Transatlantic hug to you

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


What do you think of joining the Free State Project (www.FreeStateProject.org) as an alternative to moving out of the country?

Europe is nicer in some ways. It has history, culture, and many different languages. The down side is that it is very similar to the US in my opinion. Same statism, materialism, and human disconnect. It is expensive to get there, and to live there. I recommend a visit, and maybe a stay for a time. Personally, I think it differs only aesthetically from the US. You are still contributing to unjust systems of oppression in any first world state.

It really comes down to yourself. You can go anywhere, and never feel complete. There are opportunities here in the US where you can get away from mainstream society. Intentional communities, WOOFing, and others. Even in modern society you can take steps to change your own mindset, and life practices. These contribute more to your state of mind than anything else. Before you change everything about your life it is a good idea to take a hard look at your mind.

For me I find other countries more enjoyable. That may not be the same for you. This is why I am leaving in couple months. It is what I enjoy. I will return to the US one day, and if I am not fulfilled I will leave again. It is all about personal growth.

If you are really angry you can always join these guys

reply to post by Doomsday 2029


We did not fail. I will try my hardest to get the Truth to as many People as I can and Expose the Powers that are against Us.

Go ahead, get out, who needs you.

Don't move to england, its boring, cold and grey. It has small roads, it rains all the time, everything is ridiculously overpriced (fuels like 1.30 a LITRE) and has a ridiculous posh toff running it.

It's my dream to move away from here!!!

OK, here it goes:

First of all, you should ask yourself why you want to leave the US. If it's just because of 9/11, remember that there are meddlesome governments and cover-ups everywhere. And you could find a lot worse than what you're running away from.

Take South America: A lot of rich people I know are now putting up their tents in Argentina, in quaint places in the foothills of the Andes -- but if the current government turned into a brutal dictatorship, they'd just pack up and move to one of their half-dozen other residences around the world, whereas ordinary folks like you and me would be stuck there, with no place to go. I don't know about you, but that scares me.

If you've never lived anywhere else and want a big old adventure, I'd say by all means, live in another country for a while, just to travel the world and experience other peoples and mentalities and languages, but leave yourself a way out, i.e., a way to come back if you wanted to.

Besides, it's true what one poster said: the US is the only country that requires its citizens to pay US income tax no matter where they live and work. So even if you never make another dollar on US soil, you'll still have to pay income tax here, unless you give up your US citizenship, and even then there's a lot of hoops to jump through.

If you just want to take up residence in another country, that's easier said than done. Most countries these days have strict immigration laws, and you'll need a foreign spouse to petition for you, or a decent job offer so your employer can get you a work visa, or at the very least proof of independent income/retirement income not generated in that country. No one will just let you move in and set up shop.

From personal experience, it'd be easiest to get a foreign girlfriend and marry her, so you can live in her home country. That would help you get integrated in the culture and would also be helpful in navigating other bureaucratic hoops, e.g., in many foreign countries, as an American you won't be able to open up a bank account anymore. Due to the pressure from the US government and endless swaths of regulations, few foreign banks want to deal with the hassle nowadays and refuse to give bank accounts to US citizens.

The best places to consider:
- Belize. Beautiful surroundings and the main language there is English, a big plus. Then again, I don't know if I would want to live so close "to the beach," in the event of a cataclysm.
- Panama. Same thing, English spoken, modern amenities, but from what I hear a nice place to live and thrive.
- Uruguay. If you speak Spanish, a great place to go and try a sustainable lifestyle.
- Argentina. THE place to go... I know many millionaires and multimillionaires, and this is where they all flock to right now.
- New Zealand. If you can get in, there's lots of space for everyone and you can try self-sustainable living if you're so inclined. Plus, they have a great health care system. However, I don't know how cataclysm-proof they are, so I'd still check that out; and immigration laws are pretty stringent.

- Mexico. As with Colombia, Nicaragua, Chile, etc., personally I'd be worried about drug lords, kidnappings (especially of foreign citizens in the hope of getting a ransom), rampant crime and government corruption, etc. If you're less risk-averse than I am, give it a shot, but I wouldn't go there.
- Asia (Thailand, Malaysia, China, etc.). Many of them are cheap and fun places to be for a vacation, but would you want to live there? Having an Asian spouse might make things easier and more pleasant.
- Europe. A no-no for all the reasons outlined by me and others above; plus living expenses and taxes are usually much higher than in America, unless you want to try an Eastern European country. Downside: many of them are still rather backwards and have rather totalitarian governments.

Here's why I will most likely stay here:

Unless you go to an English-speaking country with a mostly white population and a similar mentality to the US (or only hang out with other expats), you will always be an outsider. No matter how friendly your Thai buddies may be, ultimately they'll always view you as a foreigner; you'll never REALLY be one of them. And when TSHTF, you want to be among people that form a support group around you; people you know and trust; people who don't view you as "the rich white guy from outside the village." (And most places where you'd go, you'd be known as the rich white guy, even if you're just scraping by on a lower-middle-class income here in the US.)

And even in countries where you're not sticking out like a sore thumb, you'll likely still be viewed as "not one of us." Take the rich people I know that are all moving to Argentina now: let's say for the sake of argument that TSHTF for real; total economic collapse, major natural disasters, whatever. Let's say paper money becomes worthless.

How long do you think will it be before the super-friendly natives will develop a major grudge against the rich maggots living it up while they have nothing? How long before the devoted maid, housekeeper, cook, and tutor are giving you the finger (or worse, cut your throat) and tell you to take care of your own #?

Let's say the place where you reside experiences a major earthquake and lives are lost. How many natives will remember that you may need help too; how many will risk their life for you; how many will include you in their little clans when they huddle down together to provide food, warmth and shelter?

I'd rather tough it out here, with people I know and who will work together with me and my family to provide the basics in the event of a catastrophe. That's just me, but in a crisis you want to stick to those near and dear.

If you want to bug out, there are other possibilities too. E.g., personally I find American cities depressing; I'm now living in a rural New England community and am quite happy. It takes a while to gain the trust of the people here, but once you do, you couldn't find more loyal, honest and trustworthy people.

Also, there are so-called "Intentional Communities" all over America (and in other countries as well), some of which are trying to figure out new ways of living -- communal, sustainable, self-sufficient lifestyles. If you want to join others to grow your own food, raise your kids and live as much off the grid as possible, this might be the way to go.

Bottom line is, you'll need people around you. I think it's not so much where you live, but with whom you live that will matter in times of crisis.