Originally posted by kon1foundas
reply to post by Shuzitzu
Power/energy from the ocean to convert hydrogen can come in the form of ocean-wind power and ocean current power, and that part is powerful, abundant
(never ending) and free! The rest will cost, but people, companies, governments etc will pay for energy anyway. It has to cost something for it to be
marketable. Oil sill costs a lot to produce, refine, ship etc etc.
Yes, but at the end of the day, drilling, pumping, and refining oil gives you an energy gain.
Where as using any sort of power generation to extract hydrogen, at the end of the day, gives you an energy loss.
Originally posted by kermithermit111
reply to post by kon1foundas
James1982 needs to do much more research before acting like a physics doctorate. OP: Do not believe anyone who thinks their opinion is the 110% truth
and only truth.
Please, both of you, do MORE research before coming to CONCLUSIONS.
Upon a higher intellectual enlightenment, you may come to a better understanding of the possibilities that surround us all.
I can tell you that it does not take "more energy to make hydrogen than you get from it".
Do either of you even have any first hand experience with electrolysis?
This is a great thread topic and I wish more people would grow to be interested in the solutions to this mess of a world.
edit on 1-3-2011 by
kermithermit111 because: (no reason given)
First hand experience? None other than simple experiments collecting hydrogen from water back in high school.
I have done tons and tons of research though. Not just online, but at actual libraries. I have been very interested in Hydrogen for years. Not once
did I come across anybody credible that challenged the claim that Hydrogen takes more energy to produce, than it puts out when used. This is currently
accepted scientific fact. If you believe I am spreading lies here, please provide proof to back it up, or sit down.
I don't know why people keep doing what you just did. By that I mean come into a thread, challenge commonly accepted fact, and then refuse to back it
up with any actual information at all while insinuating the person you disagree with has an inferior intellect. Post some links that show Hydrogen
produces more energy than the amount needed to harvest that Hydrogen.
Perhaps YOU are the one that needs to do more research, and I'll help you out:
Many of these are engineering problems which could probably be worked out in time. But there is one basic flaw which will never be overcome.
Free hydrogen is not an energy source; it is rather an energy carrier. Free hydrogen does not exist on this planet, so to derive free
hydrogen we must break the hydrogen bond in molecules. Basic chemistry tells us that it requires more energy to break a hydrogen bond than to
form one. This is due to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and there is no getting around it.
In the future, hydrogen could also join electricity as an important energy carrier. An energy carrier moves and delivers energy in
a usable form to consumers. Renewable energy sources, like the sun and wind, can't produce energy all the time. But they could, for example, produce
electric energy and hydrogen, which can be stored until it's needed. Hydrogen can also be transported (like electricity) to locations where it is
Every fuel requires more energy to make than it yields, and all fuels create some pollution. A number of governments and
universities have conducted well-to-wheels studies, which compare varies fuel pathways and vehicle types. Hydrogen produced from natural gas and used
in a fuel cell vehicle is twice as efficient and 55% cleaner than gasoline through a conventional vehicles.
Are you getting the idea yet? Or do I still just need to do more research and try to improve my intellect. I think it's doing fine myself, because I
just totally disproved what you said without much effort at all.
How about you do some research yourself before claiming I'm the uninformed one?
I never said a Hydrogen setup couldn't work, I just said it is simply not a means to GENERATE energy. It is a means to TRANSFER energy. Because of
this, Hydrogen will not have anything to do with relieving the energy crisis. You are going to have to at least DOUBLE the amount of energy actually
being CREATED in our power grid to be able to use Hydrogen as a fuel for vehicles.
And I'll say this again because some people either don't listen, or don't actually do the research for themselves. Hydrogen does not CREATE energy.
The best example is a rechargeable battery. It doesn't create power, it just stores it to be used later.
edit on 1-3-2011 by James1982
because: (no reason given)