Dragons Plain and Simple (Do/Did They Exist?)

You could walk up to anyone on the street and ask what a dragon is. Most people would be able to give you a correct-ish response. Face it. They are a part of almost every culture in the world. I think dragons exist/existed at some point in time, and I plan to try to proove it. I do not have much time to give proof tonight, but I will post more proof tomorow.
I am open to discussion on both sides, so please tell me your opinion.

I think others have tried to prove the existance of dragons before. They more then likely ended up calling dinosaur skeletons dragons, but who knows...

GL to ya bro, i hope you can prove it. At least someone would have proof, its rare around these parts.

A great question which i have pondered for years. I am of the belief that many myths hide actual past events and myths about dragons is one of these. After all there are dragon myths worldwide which can't be a coincidence in my opinion. Any i don't really subscribe to the dinosaur skeleton theory, that might account for some form of the myth, but where did the fire-breathing come from?

I will await to see your research with great anticipation!

Well here all of the old tales and stories usually involve the ol' slaying the dragon in the cave to save the princess or whatever, my great grandmothers stories always spoke of dragons hiding in caves looking for pearls, or protecting "the egg"

european mythology is filled with literal references to these beings, then the obvious oriental dragons too, contless more references to dragon/reptile beings can be traced in many cultures aswell.

to the solid existence of these creatures not much i can add, though through a child's perspective one could say the physical proof of dragons has been starring us all along in the face, as in what do we really know about the beggining/end of a (many)species we identify as dinossaurs...

i know its a longshot, but hopefully i managed to bring up diverse points and directions of the topic to discuss here before this brews to be just another discussion about reptilians and human dna, reptilians underground eating human brains... reptilians, reptilians, how i hope this will be the last time reptilians are mentioned in this thread.

Most obvious would be our way to explain the first dinosaur bones we tripped over but wouldn't it be wild if we found out that humankind was actually around 65 million years ago to witness these monstrosities?

Well we have the bones of dinosaurs so we know they existed but haven't heard of anyone coming across the bones of a dragon so we'll probably never know .

Dragon Hill is near where I am, is an ancient site of supposedly George and the Dragon myth, is beside a White Horse (some believe this was /is a dragon) hillside chalk efigy and is a nice place to see great views and contemplate the meaning of the Universe and beyond.... more on this here:
Dragon Hill



one of my photo's of Dragon Hill, view from White Horse Hill:



Dragons are considered to be symbolic of comets, more on this here:
Dragons=comets?

I think either dragons did (and maybe still do) exist, or dinosaurs are dragons and existed well into the current age. There are too many stories from too many different places and peoples to discount their existance in one form or another. Whatever the truth is, it's worthy of study.

I know the bible has a verse about dragons in psalms. The rainbow bible study guide says that dragons were creatures that lived before creation? Now what does that mean? I don't know.

It might be my inner child but i definitely think dragons existed at some point. Im under the impression they were all slain, as they would be man's only predator, if they existed at the same time. most myths suggest they did obviously. But at the same time maybe they were spiritual beings, good or evil. who knows.

as far fossils go, i wonder if the wings (if they had wings) would survive. Bird fossils suggests they would. But would an archeologist think "oh, i wonder if this Dinosaur had wings?" while the were excavating? probably. But then again, Dragons existed the same time as humans so you wouldn't find dragon bones with dinosaur bones.

Another more conspiracy related thought, if such a creature exists or existed, would TPTB hide that from the common folk? I think they would, if they do exist. Imagine people befriending and riding dragons. Its had to keep a man oppressed when they can fly and rain fire from the sky. That would also explain why they dragons would have been slain, at the order of the Kings. Dragons= Medieval Al-Quida

There is an old story cut out of the original bible about a dragon not being the devil.

We have heard the stroy of Danial thrown into the lions den & he calms the beast & isn't eaten, but what about how Danial kills a dragon by over feeding it with mana from heaven until it bursts.

The Apocrypha is still in some bibles but has been cut out of most modern bibles.

Bel & the Dragon. (Bel as the old god Bel worshipped in ancient Persia approx 600BCE & a real dragon not the modern reference of a dragon being another name for the devil.)

Apocrypha: Bel and the Dragon (complete)
Chapter 1 to 42
www.sacred-texts.com...

Bel and the Dragon
en.wikipedia.org...

The tale of Bel and the Dragon incorporated as chapter 14 of the extended Book of Daniel was written in Aramaic around the late 2nd century BC and translated into Greek in the Septuagint. This chapter, along with chapter 13, is referred to as deuterocanonical, in that it is not universally accepted among Christians as belonging to the canonical works accepted as the Bible. The text is viewed as apocryphal by Protestants and typically not found in modern Protestant Bibles, though it was in the original 1611 edition of the King James Version. It's listed in Article VI of the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England.

For those interested

Additions to Daniel
en.wikipedia.org...

The Additions to Daniel comprise three chapters not found in the Hebrew/Aramaic text of Daniel. The text of these chapters is found in the Greek Septuagint and in the earlier Old Greek translation. They are accepted as canonical and translated as such in Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Bibles. They are listed in Article VI of the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England[1]. However, most Protestant versions exclude these passages as apocryphal, retaining only the text available today in the Hebrew/Aramaic manuscripts.

The additions are:

# The Prayer of Azariah and Song of the Three Holy Children : Daniel 3:24-90 inserted between verses 23 and 24 (v. 24 becomes v. 91) in the Protestant canon. It incorporates the Fiery Furnace episode.

# Susanna and the Elders : before Daniel 1:1, a prologue in early Greek manuscripts; chapter 13 in the Vulgate

# Bel and the Dragon : after Daniel 12:13 in Greek, an epilogue; chapter 14 in the Vulgate

One of the more conventional explanations I've heard for the prevalence of dragons in mythology is the idea that dragon myths are an extension of a primal fear of snakes. Herpetophobia has deep genetic roots in the human species, so snakes are a cross-cultural symbol of the fearsome and awe-inspiring. A lot of dragons, especially Chinese ones, look a lot like snakes... so it could be sort of an archetypal thing.

There could also be some mythological cross-pollination between cultures, where dragon myths spread from one region to another. This makes sense to me because while dragons figure into mythology all over Europe, Asia, and Africa, I'm not aware of very many Native American dragon myths (does Quetzalcoatl count?).

This might be of help:

A nice overview of dragon tales around the world, sorted by region. Also includes some background info on origins and types.

The universality of dragon myths and tales make it an intriguing topic indeed.

reply to post by enleve


thats a very good point, its true that one can trace references to dragons encoded in references to snakes or the whole reptile genre in general, but the impression i got from reading your post is that maybe, and just maybe..

didn't the whole eden story(from the sumerian versions and so on) talked about the creator punishing the snake and removing its members so it had to crawl, now i can't remember this for sure, but didn't biologists at some point concluded that along its evolution some snake species showed traced of possessing limbs at one point in time?

same way one could say that dinossaurs didn't go extinct they just evolved into birds, maybe dragons just took on another form, and all we got left is the myths so we are not able to recognize their current form.

but what is clear without a doubt is that there is definatly some link and human obsession thowards dragons or sentient reptile beings. because it's true that in most references th so called dragons weren't just refered to as animals or beasts but possessing a conscience a sentient ability to comunicate with humans.

or then again it could be just a personification and a symbolic way to talk about humans inner serpent, whats refered to as kundalini in the east, mn's inner serpent wich can go good or evil, but hey, before i ge mre cnfusing or drag myself too long i always seen the kundalini/dragon stories very similar, the dragn aways seeks the egg, the kundalini always points to the third eye or cosmic egg soul.

but hey from here to occultist circles claiming dragons still live underground and have a gourmet taste for our pineal glands, that IMO would be a stretch.

until further evidence or lack of it comes along

some more on Dragons being comets/meteorites:
www.morien-institute.org...

The mystery of the origins of the red dragon symbol, now on the flag of Wales, has perplexed many historians, writers and romanticists, and the archæological community generally has refrained from commenting on this most unusual emblem, claiming it does not concern them. In the ancient Welsh language it is known as 'Draig Goch' - 'red dragon', and in "Y Geiriadur Cymraeg Prifysgol Cymru", the "University of Wales Welsh Dictionary", (Cardiff, University of Wales Press, 1967, p. 1082) there are translations for the various uses of the Welsh word 'draig'. Amongst them are common uses of the word, which is today taken just to mean a 'dragon', but in times past it has also been used to refer to 'Mellt Distaw' - (sheet lightning), and also 'Mellt Didaranau' - (lightning unaccompanied by thunder). But the most interesting common usage of the word in earlier times, according to this authoritative dictionary, is 'Maen Mellt' the word used to refer to a 'meteorite'. And this makes sense, as the Welsh word 'maen' translates as 'stone', while the Welsh word 'mellt' translates as 'lightning' - so literally a 'lightning-stone'. That the ancient language of the Welsh druids has words still in use today which have in the past been used to describe both a dragon and also a meteorite, is something that greatly helps us to follow the destructive 'trail of the dragon' as it was described in early Welsh 'riddle-poems'. This is especially true of the "Hanes Taliesin", a riddle-poem that is so full of astronomical terms it is obvious that they were deliberately used by the composer - but to what end? Could they have been used to encode a druidic astro-mythology that was accessible only to 'initiates'?

Here is some cool stuff.

excuse triple post

Sorry about being a little late about posting, but I've been kind of busy. I like the disscussion and there have been some great links. Here are some lines from the bible that include dragons:

"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads." (Revelation 12:3)

"And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority." (Revelation 13:2)

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." (Revelation 12:9)

"And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast..." (Revelation 13:4)

"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty." (Revelation 16:13-14)

"Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him? None is so fierce that dare stir him up..." (Job 41:9-10)

"Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about." (Job 41:14)

"Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth. (Job 41:19-21)

"Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear." He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride." (Job 41:33-34)

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:2)

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

"Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." (Ephesians 6:11-12)

Fire breath:

Just a little tidbit here. Who has read the teen-ish age group series The Last Dragon? It may be fictional, but some of it is well reaserched. Also it has a theory about why people have never found dragon bones or anything. It says they turn into clay when they die. It's just a theory, but it makes a bit of sense. Just think about it