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Christian couple lose their High Court battle to foster children because they are against homosexual

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posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by Varemia

Originally posted by Haydn_17[/

Honestly, if you are going to argue about nature, then everything humans do is unnatural. I mean, we don't fend for ourselves using our bodies like every other animal. We build tools and teach each other things to survive. In that case, education is entirely unnatural and should be shunned by society. After all, it is an abomination.

Also, men and women will have sex whether you like gay people or not. Just because homosexuality is becoming accepted in the world as something that exists and won't go away, it doesn't mean that men and women are going to suddenly stop making babies! I mean, right now we've got a baby being born every second, and there is always somebody somewhere at all times doing the naughty with each other.

Gay is natural because it happens. If it is possible at all, then it is natural. You see, the big difference between homosexuality, bestiality, and pedophilia is that homosexuality is between two consenting adults. They are of sound mind and body, and desire each other. In bestiality, the animal cannot consent. It may get into heat, but the animal will never be able to understand what is going on. And again with pedophilia, the child cannot consent, because their minds have not developed enough for rational decision-making to take hold.

Homosexuality has nothing wrong with it and the people who oppose it are either stupid or evil in my opinion (stupid being FAR more common).

And on topic for the thread itself:
I don't think they should have denied them a foster child for that reason. There are too many children out there who need a home, and even if a child is raised in a house where the parents believe something silly, when the child gets old enough, he/she will be able to decide for themselves what they believe. That's why so many parents hate their children's choices. They would rather not have their kid believe something that is different.

Honestly, either that social worker was traumatized or had homosexual friends who have been hurt by Christians if that was the deciding point in foster-care allowance. It just goes to show that the anti-homosexuality Christians are not doing anyone any favors by being bigoted. It causes PAIN, HATRED, and even ATHEISM, which I know many Christians do not enjoy.

I mean, think about it! If you were growing up doing what seemed to be natural to you, and your parents told you that their religion dictates that you are evil and must change your ways, would you remain religious, loving, and pain-free? No! The belief that homosexuality is wrong is entirely un-Christ-like in all regards. It is detrimental to society.

Finally - an open and intelligent post!!! And not a drop of venomous hate hidden between the lines. S & F :-)

As to the topic, it's obvious to me that the older foster couple (62 & 65) were a wee bit out of touch with today's society and were themselves close minded to the reality that homosexuality is mainly accepted in this world that the foster child must live in. (We are talking about England - not Iran? Oops - wrong religion, same hate?) Anyway, I've got 43 foster brothers, and a lot of experience with abuse of all kinds. IMO, if the 'system' no longer trusts that couple to be foster parents anymore, then it's time to retire them. Maybe there have been specific complaints about them. Who knows, maybe one or more of their other foster boys might have been gay and the couple badgered him.




posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by EnigmaticDill
 



They do this for no other reason then physical gratification and lust.


Please read the article that I linked and then come back with another response. The animal kingdom has many different uses for homosexuality, and 2/3 of the major uses have nothing to do with "physical gratification and lust." Human beings are animals. We may have some sort of supernatural divine link (which I fully believe in, but not in the convoluted way that many world religions see it), but it doesn't take away from the fact that our flesh and blood bodies are animals.

To study animals in their environments could better help humans understand why we display the behaviors that we do. I still think that foster home placements should be based on the merit of the couple that is applying. Like I stated quite a few pages ago, it shouldn't matter if it's a man and woman, a man and man, or a woman and woman. All three groups are equally capable of rearing a child in a loving, nurturing environment. To teach a child that one person is "less of a person" because of their gender orientation is more abusive than teaching them to tolerate and accept all people.

Heff- sorry for the off-topic post.




Peace be with you.

-truthseeker
edit on 28-2-2011 by truthseeker1984 because: edited to make post more on topic.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by EnigmaticDill
 


As much as people try to deny it, if you look under biology or taxonomy, humans are classified as animals. There are two major categories for cells: animal and plant. Notice that there isn't animal, plant and human. Our cells, biology, makes us animals. Just because we call ourselves human doesn't make it any less true.

So yes, we can actually look to some animal behaviours to recognize whether it is a natural urge or not. To teach homosexuality to children as an abomination or that it's wrong would be the same as trying to teach them skin colour really does determine inferiority/superiority.


(Sorry Heff if this is offtopic too)
edit on 28-2-2011 by Dendro because: tried to make it more on topic



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by truthseeker1984
 


Your are very welcome. Keep that noggin thinking I like what comes out of it!

2



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
 


Indoctinating children into a religion against their free will is a form of abuse.
Considering everyone thinks their religious beliefs are the right ones to hold, it's blatantly obvious to those not emotionally attached to the situation that religion does not and has never, worked for the betterment of mankind, therefore to indoctrinate an innocent child into beliefs that are clearly flawed and detrimental to a healthy attitude to life is indeed, tantamount to serious neglect, if not outright premeditated abuse.
Just because a Christian will be unable to see that enforcing their dogma onto innocents is abusive, doesn't stop it being so.

I hope this case starts the ball rolling where far less religious people get their nasty, self-obsessed hands on impressionable innocents to corrupt and manipulate towards their own ideals. This world needs free thinkers, not fundamentals blind to logic who wish they were still in the Dark Ages where religious control was the name of the game.

Children should always be given the opportunity to make their own informed decision, as and when they are old enough to understand what it is they are actually 'giving' to whatever 'God' they choose to believe in, if any.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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What I see in these posts are filled with ignorance and arrogance. Where in the article did the people say they are against something? They said they will love the child no matter what they were. They were not going to tell the child that homosexuality is a good thing but they were not going to teach the child to hate. If people want to let the child suffer in an adoption agency than that is your bidding.

When people cite Leviticus you have to remember when it was written. Are people going to follow Hammurabi's law today even though most of our laws descended from there? People cite Leviticus to measure Christians but when was the last time a Christian stoned someone for their beliefs? If you can cite one source where a mercy killing was done by a Christian in a modern part of the world I will gladly walk away from this conversation.

I think there is no point in teaching hate but this family was certainly not preaching about hate. They seem like a loving family that will love the child no matter the shape and behaviour, people have the nerves to rant about how evil they are because they won't tell the child that homosexuality is right? So would it still be hate if they didn't tell the child that homosexuality was wrong?



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:18 PM
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The dooms day is coming. Lol Government would tell you how to raise children. Sounds like North Korea to me. They forget completely how our civilization was build. If state would mes to our families they would break the fundamental principles that holds society together. Such civilization have no chance to survive.
Some people don't understand. Its not about ideological right or not right actions. Its about our survival on this planet. Until no one interfered in family business how to educate children our civilization was developing fast. This makes that mankind base on differences between people. This makes us more immune to hard situations. In other way we would become mindless robots easy to be governed by elites which in fact have all this law in deep ignorance because such heavy socialist law is for mindless people only.
edit on 28-2-2011 by odyseusz because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by Wildbob77
 


I'm going to continue reading and make a post in a little bit. But so far every hate filled post has a lot of grammatical errors. Kinda funny.

(Yeah I know I don't have the best grammar myself. But Im good at noticing bad Grammar.
)



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99

I think there is no point in teaching hate but this family was certainly not preaching about hate. They seem like a loving family that will love the child no matter the shape and behaviour


They sure aren't going into the adoption agency and saying their going to teach hate. But if they live by the bible which has hate throughout, I can assure you, they will. IMO of course. Just as the pedophile adopting under the guise of christianity. And most cases it isn't a guise, they are christians.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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Alright I've read enough. A lot of people are justifying comments with stuff from the Old Testament.

I was under the impression that this was about Christians not Jews. Most Christians believe that Jesus spread his love into the world so that those laws that you keep bringing up wouldn't have to apply anymore.

Also as for the gay haters I wish I had the verse from the bible right now about how you aren't the one to judge. It isn't you job. It's God's job.

Leave it to him and live and let live. Homophobia in my eyes is a sin...just as much as being racist to a black person.

As for the foster child. If the parent's house looked like this:




I might be a little worried myself. Obviously Im just making assumptions. If anyone wants to explain to me how I'm wrong please do so. I'm happy to hear it.

I don't want to be wrong in my opinions.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by C21H30O2I
 


Now that is untrue. The vast, vast majority of Christians are great parents. Living by the Bible, with a touch of common sense and moderation makes for a great family environment. The same can be said for every other religion.

I think for the OP, they really did go into the office preaching hate. Maybe not quite that overtly, but close enough to make the authorities question their abliity to parent. They are definitely not typical Christians, just like jihadists are not typical Muslims.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeker1984
I know this is completely off-topic, but since the debate has shifted to a homosexual vs. religion debate, let me add my own take on some points of interest to me.

Before I go any further, let it be known that I am a Pagan, I have been a Pagan for most of my life, and I have no interest in dogmatic traditions. I fully support those in the homosexual community, and I abide by a live and let live philosophy, because life is too short to be worried about who falls in love with who and what some 2000 year old man-made book condones as proper behavior.


We all know that homosexuality is not conducive to reproduction. It's as simple as biology. A male cannot produce offspring with another male, and the same with females. However, there are several, well-documented cases of homosexuality throughout the animal kingdom:

Homosexual behavior in animals

As this article explains, many times, homosexual behavior between male and female members of various animal groups is used as a bonding exercise. In other cases, it's used as a show of dominance. In even other cases, such as with certain species of penguins, vultures, black swans, and even some species of primates will form life pairs with a member of the same sex. Because animal behaviorists have yet to fully understand or explain why this activity happens, speculation is the only thing that we can go on at this point.

I have a hypothesis about why animals throughout the kingdom (yes, including homo sapiens) will turn to homosexuality. Without knowing anything about the population density of the animals that display this type of behavior, I will speculate that homosexuality may, or may not be nature's response to population control. In the case of homo sapien, I believe this to be true. Last time I checked, we had over 6.6 billion people on this little rock we call home. Babies are born just about every second of every day, and our resources are dwindling at an accelerated pace. With the information that we do know about homosexuality displayed in wild animals, it wouldn't be such a stretch to say that it applies to homo sapien.

There isn't a lot of definitive data on the percentage of homosexual to straight people in the world, but there have been guesses at somewhere between 2-3% of the world's population. The figures, of course, are just a guess, mostly because people that identify as homosexual also have the social stigma attached to them, and would most likely be less willing to participate in such a survey. But, even at 3% of the world's population being homosexual, that is an astounding 201 million people. That's 2/3 of the population of the US. That is a lot of people not having babies through natural means. If a baby is born just about every second of every day, and we assume that most families will have 2-3 kids, that's another 400 million people NOT being born every nine months. Could this be a good thing for the population of this planet? I think so.

The projected figures by 2020 see the population at somewhere around 7.5 billion people.
Source

What is interesting about these figures is that there is a slow decline from 2012 on, but the population still grows. I really think that nature has put homosexuality into the built-in structure of animals, potentially to curb population growth. It's only a theory, and I can't back that up with concrete evidence, but I'll stick with that point, because, quite frankly, it makes sense.


Anyway, just my $.02.


Peace be with you.

-truthseeker


Animals can't make moral decisions nor do they have a higher consciousness. Humans have the choice to engage in homosexuality or not to. Nobody forces people to have sex with the same gender, they choose to.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by C21H30O2I

Originally posted by Equinox99

I think there is no point in teaching hate but this family was certainly not preaching about hate. They seem like a loving family that will love the child no matter the shape and behaviour


They sure aren't going into the adoption agency and saying their going to teach hate. But if they live by the bible which has hate throughout, I can assure you, they will. IMO of course. Just as the pedophile adopting under the guise of christianity. And most cases it isn't a guise, they are christians.


You can assure me? Buddy, I cam from a Christian family and I can assure you ignorant people that not all Christians cite hate as you see on the news and television. Each person is unique and each family is different, but you are a generalizing the whole Christian community based on the actions of the minority. That is like saying Hitler was a nazi therefore all Germans are nazi's.

BTW, when you assure someone it is a fact not an opinion:



1. Tell someone something positively or confidently to dispel any doubts they may have: "Tony assured me that there was a supermarket in the village".


Pedophiles can be teachers too so should we prevent teachers from adopting?
edit on 28-2-2011 by Equinox99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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You can assure me? Buddy, I cam from a Christian family and I can assure you ignorant people that not all Christians cite hate
LoL Listen to yourself. to funny



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by Equinox99
 


I've always wondered how someone could claim to be a follower of a religion, yet pick and choose the rules of that religion, based upon their own ideals...or how man-made laws can override a "divine" law to the extent where people don't practice it, purely because they would be considered criminals (stoning for one).

Hypocrisy is the base of religious belief.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by C21H30O2I
 




They sure aren't going into the adoption agency and saying their going to teach hate. But if they live by the bible which has hate throughout, I can assure you, they will.


I totally disagree.

Some will demonstrate hate. However, I would question their belief and faith in this instance. Indeed, I would question whether they are hiding their bigotry behind the veil of Christian beliefs.

I was raised in an actively Christian family - a fundamental one at that - and in an actively Christian environment. As an actively gay woman, I can say hand-on-heart that despite the belief that homosexuality is unacceptable, I have never been subject to disrespect, hate, judgement or lack of love. I know their views and why they hold them, but as a child, family member and friend I am loved, respected and supported through life.

The experience and communication I have received and been involved in is one of complete love. Differing beliefs maybe, but love nevertheless


Now I may be basing my views on my own experiences. However, the fact those experiences oppose what you believe, suggests that there is more than one "type" of Christian out there. Therefore, a carte blanche summary and assumption cannot follow.

The fact that Christian belief is that homosexuality is unacceptable (and whatever follows on from that) doesn't have to be an issue. It certainly isn't for me. What is an issue is where people use that belief as a platform for disrespect, hostility and castigation. Those things do not have to go hand-in-hand. Indeed, at that point, we trip into homophobia - which isn't the same thing

edit on 28/2/11 by lizziejayne because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by C21H30O2I
 


Thank you, I have a laugh everyday!


But I can assure you, friend, that not all Christians recite hate and teach their children to hate. I used to get forced to go to church and I had a falling out with Christianity because of it, but not one day was I taught to hate ANYONE! They tried to enforce love, forgiving others, they tried to teach morality, and compassion. Of course though all that stuff went in one ear and out the other because it was boring.

BTW, I turned out just fine. In fact, I can assure you, I turned out to be a kind and loving person who turned back to spirituality on my own will. Moral of the story, don't generalize and don't be quick to criticize others because you believe they won't make a good fit. In the end that child will need a loving home to go to and some moral guidance by the foster parents.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


ok, I'll give you that most are loving people that believe in a fairytale. My grandmother included, IMHO And I shouldn't generalize. But with my experience with them, most I know, are fake and out to get something for themselves. Most do good. Most, ok I said it. food banks, clothing drives for the poor it goes on.

I am a father of two and there is no way ill raise my children by that book or beliefs.Nor do I think others should, feeding them lies and old tales. again only my opinion. Which I do respect others. I think we went off topic enough, sorry to the OP you will get no more ignorant comments from me according to one christian poster on here...



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by OptimisticPessimist
reply to post by Equinox99
 


I've always wondered how someone could claim to be a follower of a religion, yet pick and choose the rules of that religion, based upon their own ideals...or how man-made laws can override a "divine" law to the extent where people don't practice it, purely because they would be considered criminals (stoning for one).

Hypocrisy is the base of religious belief.


Hypocrisy is the base of everyone's belief sometime or another. The fact is Jesus broke down the main rules that people should abide by:

1) Love thy God with all your heart
2) Love thy neighbour as you would yourself

Evolution comes into play and we evolve, so why can't our laws? I think if you follow those 2 laws you should be okay as a Christian. I mean you should always try your best to be a good person but temptation is an arm-length away and if you should stray try not to break those laws.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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I don't know what particular bible people are reading, or have read, but I have own 6 different versions. I have read study bibles, Jehova's witness bibles, Catholic, Christian, Pentacostal etc. etc.
One thing is apparent in EVERY version I have read.
---> The greatest commandment given is LOVE. Love your God, love your neighbour, love thyself.
---> The second greatest piece of advice repeated through is, Do not Judge. Let God judge.

It appears to me that this couple were victimized for anothers agenda, did any body else get the feeling the social worker may have had too an important role in this?

I do not approve of discrimination, or of making another human being feel that they are not worthy. However as humans we are all entitled to our own opinions. If this right is taken away it would limit free speech and free will, but it seems as long as its the Christians free speech and rights we are taking away, noone cares. They deserve it?

I would prefer to see my son find a nice girl and keep our family line going.... does this mean I should have my child taken away?



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