Spell Check

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I just explained that it's not an effective excuse when there are American citizens on here that make tons of typos everyday.

Is our educational system really that bad?

It doesnt matter, the fact is, this site has international membership, meaning there is going to be a ton of different levels of mastery of spelling and grammar of the english language. Im sure my lack of use of the apostrophe bothers you as well, but is my statement any less valid if I dont use them?

On top of that, this is a discussion board. I personally dont worry too much about formatting on here, as it is generally quick responses or thoughts. I save my formatting for the writing I do where it actually matters.

I will never understand worrying about spelling on a message board. But hey, to each his own.

I personally would not like to see a spell check integrated. I would not like to see a grammar check integrated. It is a waste of time and resources for ATS when there are so many available options for anyone who cares and they can keep the checks to match their regional spellings.

Additionally and the most important point: If a thread is misspelled in the title,or the body is full of horrible errors you have a filter you can use to ignore it. It is built into your internet browser. It's called the "Back" button. Alternatively ATS has included a filter in the menu called "MyATS" click it and you're out!

If the person using poor English had a valid point or could have taught you something then it is your intellectual prejudice that has made you lose. I tend to ignore poorly written posts full of misspellings or poorly presented. I wish they would try a bit harder. But why bother when they still get tons of flags and stars and the masses relate to them...

reply to post by The Sword



OH NO!

Here they come again!!!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4d75a50e23af.jpg[/atsimg]

It's an international site, with many non-native English speakers as members. Better for members to police themselves and use spell-checkers in another program they use to draft their post.

Personally though, I do try and correct spelling errors in titles as I see them (for the simple reason of improving searches).

Originally posted by quackers

Originally posted by Gseven

More excuses as to why everyone is so comfortable with being sub-standard with their communication. Victorian peasant??

Clearly, you've not read Victorian literature. And excuse me, but the proper spelling of words and their proper usage are not evolving. Let's stay on topic, shall we?

Considering the English language is little more than modified German, well, you're just wrong ain't ya. The meaning of words is always changing and the fact you deny that only goes to show your high horse is little more than a Shetland Pony. This is all very much on topic. Who designated you the forum's resident grammar nazi come language police? Your life that dull is it? Woe is you.

edit on 28-2-2011 by quackers because: The spelling police might arrest me.

Yes, all languages evolve, and yes, English is Germanic. Please don't sit there and try to give me an English lesson when you clearly are mixing two different topics. The evolution, invention and morphing of words and meanings has nothing to do with the discussion of this thread. BASICS!! If you can't get your fundamental basics right, don't try to blame the evolution of the English language on your laziness.

And just for the record, you DID use "you're" properly and you didn't know enough to defend yourself - thank you for making my point. Proud of YOUR education, are you? You should have learned that in elementary school. You're = you are, as in "well, you are just wrong [should have inserted a comma here] ain't ya." Furthermore, is this a statement or a question? So I broke my rule of not singling anyone out for mistakes, but you were kind of asking for it. At least I pointed out that you were correct in one instance, but it is sad to me that you let someone else convince you that you were wrong. Learn the basics first, then you can morph and evolve all you want. The basics seldom change, and haven't since I was in school, so I won't buy your excuses.

Nazi should have been capitalized. It's a proper noun. YOU'RE (you are) speaking to a former teacher and a former Marine - I don't own a horse or a pony, thank you. If you think this is harsh, then I can see how you have the opinion you do - you were probably one of those students who had parents that didn't give a crap about YOUR education, didn't get involved, and enabled you to barely slide through while you goofed off all YOUR time playing video games and doing God knows what else.

Hate me or love me, I don't care, but take pride in yourself. No one else will do it for you.

Originally posted by Jinglelord
I personally would not like to see a spell check integrated. I would not like to see a grammar check integrated. It is a waste of time and resources for ATS when there are so many available options for anyone who cares and they can keep the checks to match their regional spellings.

Additionally and the most important point: If a thread is misspelled in the title,or the body is full of horrible errors you have a filter you can use to ignore it. It is built into your internet browser. It's called the "Back" button. Alternatively ATS has included a filter in the menu called "MyATS" click it and you're out!

If the person using poor English had a valid point or could have taught you something then it is your intellectual prejudice that has made you lose. I tend to ignore poorly written posts full of misspellings or poorly presented. I wish they would try a bit harder. But why bother when they still get tons of flags and stars and the masses relate to them...

I think the biggest mistake people are making here is mixing quality of content with readability. I have read MANY posts laden with errors that I have found interesting. No one is arguing that point, so stick to the topic. Too many assumptions are being made about those of us who feel that the quality of readability is important. No one is policing, least of all myself, and no one is judging foreigners. All of those are false assumptions which have NOTHING to do with the topic. This thread is a platform for me to vent my personal frustrations over what I see every day on this forum, and as a former teacher, I can instantly recognize when it's laziness or when it's something legitimate. I am ONLY addressing laziness, nothing else.

Readability: the quality of written language that makes it easy to read and understand.

No one is perfect. No one is looking for perfection. And personally, I don't write anything without my spell check on. The older we get, we tend to have brain farts about simple things, and it's nice to have the spell check catching things we would have otherwise missed. It's not as big of a deal as everyone is making it out to be.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
On top of that, this is a discussion board. I personally dont worry too much about formatting on here, as it is generally quick responses or thoughts. I save my formatting for the writing I do where it actually matters.

Now see, if I had been your teacher, I would have laid into you over that comment. Habits are practiced. What are you practicing most? Do you follow the rules of the road only when it "matters", or do you follow the rules of road at all times? Do you wipe your butt when you take a crap only when it matters or do you wipe your butt at all times? Some habits are best left unpracticed, because when you practice purposely misspelling words and purposely leaving out punctuation and proper grammar, then you are developing habits that will confuse what you were taught. Then one day, you won't remember what's right and what isn't when it will "matter", and you will embarrass yourself and give others the wrong impression.

Care enough about how you present yourself at ALL times. There are thousands of people that see your posts every day. I think it most certainly matters here! Just because we don't see our faces doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Because you're still practicing making habits that will stay with you for a lifetime.

Originally posted by backinblack
But then I'm in Australia and "offence" is actually the correct spelling..
One of the quirks of language is that many words have different spelling in different countries..
Makes it even more confusing on a site like this..

Difference in spellings from country to country isn't the issue either. Most of us have been around long enough to know. Even in the U.S., it's still acceptable to use "theater" or "theatre", although my spell check insists the latter is wrong. Personally, when I see certain spellings, I know where the person is from. Americans don't say "cheers", normally. Nor do they say "mate". We don't say "arse", unless we're purposely being funny and trying to slide in under the T&C radar. So it's fairly easy for me to instantly know where someone is from just by seeing how certain words are spelled. Again though, this is not what chaps my hide or gets my goat.

American and English Spelling Differences

I do most of my internet playing at work, on my smart-phone, which is sometimes not so smart. Plus small keys & big fingers don't mix. And the "G" key sticks on my laptop now. I'm not going to do an edit every time I miss a letter. But I'm glad not everyone uses spellcheck, I've read "classified documents" from "former government agents" that don't know "there" from "their"...you know to just stop reading at that point.

Originally posted by Gseven

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
On top of that, this is a discussion board. I personally dont worry too much about formatting on here, as it is generally quick responses or thoughts. I save my formatting for the writing I do where it actually matters.

Now see, if I had been your teacher, I would have laid into you over that comment. Habits are practiced. What are you practicing most? Do you follow the rules of the road only when it "matters", or do you follow the rules of road at all times? Do you wipe your butt when you take a crap only when it matters or do you wipe your butt at all times? Some habits are best left unpracticed, because when you practice purposely misspelling words and purposely leaving out punctuation and proper grammar, then you are developing habits that will confuse what you were taught. Then one day, you won't remember what's right and what isn't when it will "matter", and you will embarrass yourself and give others the wrong impression.

Care enough about how you present yourself at ALL times. There are thousands of people that see your posts every day. I think it most certainly matters here! Just because we don't see our faces doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Because you're still practicing making habits that will stay with you for a lifetime.

edit on 28-2-2011 by Gseven because: fix quote

Now see, has you been my teacher, I probably wouldnt have the education I do.

You are right, habits are practiced. What you fail to address here is that formal writing and short hand are two completely separate forms of written communication. Thus, the practice of the habits within each do not necessarily translate to the other.

It is true that not all are able to distinguish between the two forms, but EVERYONE uses them both. And once you realize that they are two different disciplines, you can more easily apply the habits.

I won't dignify your 'butt wiping' comment with anything other than to say that perhaps you should spend a bit more time worrying about the content that you write, as opposed to worrying about the writing habits of others.

Furthermore, no one here is speaking about purposeful misspellings. So I'm not quite sure what you are getting at with that one.

As for not being able to remember what is "right" (I think you meant correct...embarrassed?), that statement only further illustrates that you are someone who cannot distinguish between the writing disciplines. I would advise, again, that you worry more about your own style and habits than those of others.

I do care about what I post here, which is why I would never think about typing something as juvenile as 'do you wipe your butt'. Because, again, it is the content which matters the most.

reply to post by Gseven


I'm completely not talking about people who are not native English speakers. If anything they are generally much more clear and have better spelling... if you know how to read it. I tutored quite a few ESL students mainly in anthropology and biology but I did a little English tutoring (I'm not a huge fan of language and I could never quite sort out those dangling participles) and at present I wok for a company where I normally work with Chinese and European people who do not speak English as their first language. It is sad to me that a factory worker in China can compose an e-mail better than a sales manager from a large US company.

I don't expect perfect spelling or grammar but there are quite a few people that are obviously native English speakers who just don't give a darn about what they are typing and in my opinion have never put out even most minimal effort to learn their own language better. These are the same people who complain about foreigners taking their jobs. I don't care how wonderful their points are if I suspect poor English from a non-native speaker I will read it. If it looks like an idiot native speaker I'll ignore it.

reply to post by Jinglelord


Maybe we need a new thread regarding how the education system is letting down our youth..
In my days, emphasis was mostly on the 3 R's..
To me, a sound knowledge of them 3 and you are set for the world where you then start the real learning..
Now it's political correctness, climate change and what to eat..Sad really....

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I think you're trying to pass off bad spelling and laziness as shorthand. Shorthand is an authentic writing method which takes a while to master, by the way, and is basically like learning a new language. And no, I'm not referring to text messaging shorthand, which is a modified version of English. Your style isn't shorthand - or stenography, if we want to get technical.

Images of Shorthand

Originally posted by Jinglelord
I don't expect perfect spelling or grammar but there are quite a few people that are obviously native English speakers who just don't give a darn about what they are typing and in my opinion have never put out even most minimal effort to learn their own language better. These are the same people who complain about foreigners taking their jobs. I don't care how wonderful their points are if I suspect poor English from a non-native speaker I will read it. If it looks like an idiot native speaker I'll ignore it.

Thank you! That's exactly what I'm referring to as well. I'm not sure why so many folks are taking this so personally, because we're really not talking about them. The guilty cry out, maybe? We humans tend to do that - we out ourselves without realizing it. I do it too! I have a friend who is a body builder, and every time I hang out with him, I feel the need to explain why I haven't been lifting weights lately, and I find myself getting defensive. I can see this being the same type of situation.

I didn't teach English, by the way, and I don't claim to be perfect at it. I'm finding it funny that because I agree with a spell check on ATS that I am automatically a member of the "Nazi police", I ride my high horse, I'm a crybaby, and I'm apparently "so much better than" everyone else. Holy crap, how crazy is this? Chill out people!

Everyone I'm speaking about is from the same country I'm from and had the same exact opportunities in school that I had. I'm no better. But I fail to see where it makes me a bad person, ESPECIALLY as a former educator, simply because I think we need to raise the standards a little bit. I'm failing to understand why so many are comfortable with making themselves and their country look like a bunch of illiterate idiots to the rest of the world. You ask, Why change? I ask, Why NOT??

Originally posted by Gseven
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I think you're trying to pass off bad spelling and laziness as shorthand. Shorthand is an authentic writing method which takes a while to master, by the way, and is basically like learning a new language. And no, I'm not referring to text messaging shorthand, which is a modified version of English. Your style isn't shorthand - or stenography, if we want to get technical.

Images of Shorthand

Nice deflection.

You are correct, my style is not technically short hand. Doesnt change the fact that I, and many others with the capacity to think, have the ability to have different writing styles for different situations. I understand that not all can do it, and therefore can only be a product of specific habits.

Tell me, has any bit of what I am trying to convey been lost with the use of my informal (again, you are correct, it is not specifically shorthand, it is my own shorthand) style?

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Tell me, has any bit of what I am trying to convey been lost with the use of my informal (again, you are correct, it is not specifically shorthand, it is my own shorthand) style?

Tell me, why are you making this about you? Clearly, as I've mentioned many times, I'm not referring to people like yourself. So I'm really not sure what you're trying to say, other than to defend yourself. You came at me and the OP pretty harshly as if we were speaking about you, and I pointed out inconsistencies with your logic. No biggie. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled to mine. But there's no reason to make this about you. If you WANT me or anyone else to "police" your posts for grammar errors, I might have to charge a small fee! Otherwise, your posts are pretty "normal" with a few errors here and there that could be mostly eliminated with a spell check. So why not? Is it REALLY that big of a deal?? Jesus, it's not like anyone is asking you to cut off your arm!

Why demonize people for stating the truth or try to justify it by calling it something other than what it is? They are mistakes, nothing else. It's almost disturbing to see people tap dance around, giving it all sorts of names and officialdom to make excuses for their lack of proper word usage and/or spelling. My own posts would be horrible without a spell check. My fingers have muscle memory sometimes that spit out words on their own, and sometimes they just slip off the keys. I definitely don't have a problem admitting that spell check helps me out. I am getting older, you know!

Why is this such a terrible concept to everyone? I think I'm in the Twilight Zone where good is bad and bad is good. Nobody wants to be better, and the truth isn't allowed to be spoken.

Look, own your mistakes...or not. But don't try to defend them with flimsy excuses. If you're happy with how you portray yourself, then why bother arguing about it? It makes no sense, unless you know you could raise your own standards for yourself and you're fighting it. (I'm speaking to you now, because you apparently think I'm talking to you, but in reality, I'm really talking about people whose posts are 100 times worse.)

reply to post by Gseven


First and foremost: No spell check on ATS! It is a waste of resources, time and energy. If someone is interested in checking their spelling there are too many easy options available for that to be an excuse.

I hate to break it to you... we are a bunch of illiterate idiots. Spend some time with someone of equal socioeconomic class in most European countries, China, India and quite possibly many others. A high percentage are not only able to read and write well in their own language but also in at least one other language (often English) and possibly two or three other languages. I know of more than a few people with BA / BS degrees in the US who can barely write a coherent e-mail.

Which brings me back to my original point: If it is that disturbing ignore people who can't write. Just ignore their posts or complain about how stupid they are. A spell check really can't fix the problem it is a much deeper issue I think.

Just remember to teach them two times too much more than they needed they will find their ability to learn that they're great can carry them there.

Talk about a horrible sentence! Of course everything is spelled correctly and I used to, two, too, their, they're, there correctly but does it matter because it is worthless?

Originally posted by Gseven

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Tell me, has any bit of what I am trying to convey been lost with the use of my informal (again, you are correct, it is not specifically shorthand, it is my own shorthand) style?

Tell me, why are you making this about you? Clearly, as I've mentioned many times, I'm not referring to people like yourself. So I'm really not sure what you're trying to say, other than to defend yourself. You came at me and the OP pretty harshly as if we were speaking about you, and I pointed out inconsistencies with your logic. No biggie. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled to mine. But there's no reason to make this about you. If you WANT me or anyone else to "police" your posts for grammar errors, I might have to charge a small fee!

Otherwise, your posts are pretty "normal" with a few errors here and there that could be mostly eliminated with a spell check. So why not? Is it REALLY that big of a deal?? Jesus, it's not like anyone is asking you to cut off your arm!

Why demonize people for stating the truth or try to justify it by calling it something other than what it is? They are mistakes, nothing else. It's almost disturbing to see people tap dance around, giving it all sorts of names and officialdom to make excuses for their lack of proper word usage and/or spelling. My own posts would be horrible without a spell check. My fingers have muscle memory sometimes that spit out words on their own, and sometimes they just slip off the keys. I definitely don't have a problem admitting that spell check helps me out. I am getting older, you know!

Why is this such a terrible concept to everyone? I think I'm in the Twilight Zone where good is bad and bad is good. Nobody wants to be better, and the truth isn't allowed to be spoken.

Look, own your mistakes...or not. But don't try to defend them with flimsy excuses. If you're happy with how you portray yourself, then why bother arguing about it? It makes no sense, unless you know you could raise your own standards for yourself and you're fighting it. (I'm speaking to you now, because you apparently think I'm talking to you, but in reality, I'm really talking about people whose posts are 100 times worse.)

I'm not making it about me, in fact, i take extra care to do my best not to misspell on here. What I'm pointing out is that spelling is among the LEAST important parts of getting the content across to the reader.

I didnt come at anyone harshly until you used things like 'do you wipe your butt' to try and make your point, which again, clearly demonstrates content over structure.