'Anonymous' targets the brothers Koch, claiming attempts 'to usurp American Democracy'

reply to post by mishigas


I can almost here the cackle of evil laughter as you write this propaganda garbage. Your whole post has a stench of hatred, bordering on insanity.

Does it bother you that everything you believe is a lie?

Here is the true reality on Unions.

Union organizations created the market system that we enjoy today way back in the day of the Reconnaissance, when workers first began coming together to bargain economic rights against the aristocrats.

The U.S. was built on the concept of collective bargaining, most of the original signers of the Declaration of Independence (maybe you have heard of it) were Masons, which is an organization based on the philosophy of unionization and your fellow man coming together to help each other. Anyone with a remedial knowledge of U.S. history is aware of this.

When unions have been at their strongest, the U.S. economy has been at its strongest. When Unions have faltered, the U.S. economy has fallen backwards. The fifties, sixties, and seventies were all periods of strong union organization, when a working man could support his family on wages.

WW II veterans came back from the war and strongly embraced unions. I know, plenty of them are and were my family members, and the fathers of my friends.

I don't know who told you that Unions made a rough life for GIs returning from WW II, but who ever it is, you need to look them up and punch them in the mouth for telling such foul lies.

While union organizations are not perfect, and there are some union organizations that are corrupt, these corrupt union organizations are a minority are no where near as corrupt as you desperately need to believe. Union leaders simply do not make that kind of money.

Why don't you name all these union leaders earning millions of dollars in bonuses if this is true?

If you have any evidence at all of unions being corrupt beyond all belief as you describe them, than please post this information. If Hoffa is all you got, then you have chosen to immerse yourself in ignorance.

If not, then like I said, you need to punch the person in the mouth who fed you this pack of lies.

The facts speak for themselves, you just chose not to listen.

The people who fed you the lies you are spreading are the ones making millions in dollars in bonuses from crooked financial schemes, robbing the middle class of their wealth through fraudulent business practices. Those are the people you support.

reply to post by mishigas

Forcing an employer to operate under forced conditions that border on extortion is un-American.

So essentially you are completely against the whole concept of the Market system, whereby people bargain for the exchange of goods and services.

Nobody forces the employer to participate in the market.

What you want is for the employer to be able to dictate the terms of employment, and see the rights of workers to negotiate the terms by which they exchange their services as something that should not be allowed, which is completely contrary to the order of the market system.

What you want is the government to intervene and suspend the rights of workers to collectively bargain.

You are a totalitarian.

By the way, it is always in the best interests of workers to see the businesses they support, through their labor, to succeed.

reply to post by poet1b

I can almost here the cackle of evil laughter as you write this propaganda garbage. Your whole post has a stench of hatred, bordering on insanity.

Does it bother you that everything you believe is a lie?

I think this is all I want/need to hear from you to suggest that you bow out of this discussion until your temper cools down a bit. An attitude like yours doesn't belong here. Nobody has used such words against you; why must you resort to such attack speech against others?

So, please cool down and take a breather. Or don't; I don't care. Just know that I won't play those games, and I won't respond to any of your posts until you do cool down.

reply to post by mishigas


You need to go back and look at the post I was responding to, because it was clearly dripping with hatred towards unions, and filled with complete distortions and an obvious disregard for the truth.

Unions and their crowd-beating tactics, their imported thugs, were extremely unpopular after WWII. They made life very rough for many returning GI's who were willing to work for less than the unions demanded.

The unions destroyed industrialism in the US, including the auto and steel industries.

Unions are extremely corrupt. They have used the vast wealth of union dues and pension funds to buy and sell politicians and judges. Just look at the crooked bozo in the Whitehouse today - flagrant corruption. Obama meets with Trumko 2 or 3 times a week. Nice, huh, to have that kind of influence with the WH?

All I am doing is pointing out to you just how one sided and emotional your post is. You accuse others of being ignorant, and then cry foul when your own ignorance is pointed out to you.

You are the one who made this statement.

Well, see what happens when you try to sell that collective snake oil to people that know better? You get your nose turned around.

If you don't want to get your nose turned around, don't be threatening other people.

You come on here threatening people like a thug, and then accuse all unions of being thugs. That is quite a disconnect.

reply to post by poet1b


I'll only respond to this one portion of your post.

When the true history of labor unions in the US is pointed out to you, you take a hissy fit and cry foul. Your family and friends have been in unions, so what, big deal, so has all of our friends and families. You're trying to whine about it as if unions belong with God, the Flag, mom and apple pie. You have been suckered; you are the ideal union gronk that they love to send onto the strike lines to picket in the rain while they pick your pocket and eat steak and shrimp in a fancy hotel.

You need to go back and look at the post I was responding to, because it was clearly dripping with hatred towards unions, and filled with complete distortions and an obvious disregard for the truth.

Sorry poet, but hey what can I say? Love hurts. So does the truth. The unions are so corrupt the government had to step in! And that's saying something, seeing how corrupt they are!

Unions and their crowd-beating tactics, their imported thugs, were extremely unpopular after WWII. They made life very rough for many returning GI's who were willing to work for less than the unions demanded.

The unions destroyed industrialism in the US, including the auto and steel industries.

Unions are extremely corrupt. They have used the vast wealth of union dues and pension funds to buy and sell politicians and judges. Just look at the crooked bozo in the Whitehouse today - flagrant corruption. Obama meets with Trumko 2 or 3 times a week. Nice, huh, to have that kind of influence with the WH?

Am I making all of this up? I don't thiiiink so!!!

As World War II ended a decade after the NLRA was enacted, unions sought to make up the pay cuts caused by wage freezes during the war, resulting in a rash of strikes. Many people viewed these strikes as economically destructive, and union practices, such as closed shop agreements, became increasingly unpopular. Critics of the closed shop contended that it allowed unions to monopolize employment by limiting membership or closing it altogether. They also argued that the closed shop allowed unions to force unwilling individuals to give them financial support.

In response to these criticisms, Congress amended the NLRA in 1947, with the adoption of the labor-management-relations act (29 U.S.C.A. §§ 151 et seq.). Known as the Taft-Hartley Act, this law placed many restrictions on union activities. It limited picketing rights, banned supervisory employees from participating in unions, and restricted the right to strike in situations where the president of the United States and Congress determined that a strike would endanger national health and safety. The Taft-Hartley Act prohibited secondary boycotts, wherein a union incites a strike by employees of a neutral or "secondary" party, such as a retailer, in order to force the secondary party to cease doing business with the party with whom the union has its primary dispute, such as a manufacturer. The Taft-Hartley Act also allowed individual states to ban the union shop by passing Right-to-Work Laws that prohibited employees from being required to join a union as a condition of receiving or retaining a job.

Link

Read 'em and weep.

reply to post by mishigas


Neither your quote nor your link prove any of the harsh claims you make.

If you have any proof of union leaders making millions of dollars in annual salaries like corporate execs, please provide them as proof of union corruption.

You are the one crying in your milk.

Here is the real story of Unions in the U.S.

www.socialstudieshelp.com...

Primitive unions, or guilds, of carpenters and cordwainers, cabinet makers and cobblers made their appearance, often temporary, in various cities along the Atlantic seaboard of colonial America. Workers played a significant role in the struggle for independence; carpenters disguised as Mohawk Indians were the "host" group at the Boston Tea Party in 1773. The Continental Congress met in Carpenters Hall in Philadelphia, and there the Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776. In "pursuit of happiness" through shorter hours and higher pay, printers were the first to go on strike, in New York in 1794; cabinet makers struck in 1796; carpenters in Philadelphia in 1797; cordwainers in 1799. In the early years of the 19th century, recorded efforts by unions to improve the workers' conditions, through either negotiation or strike action, became more frequent.

I guess when you talk about thuggery, you are talking about union efforts to end child labor and sweat shops. No doubt you are against child labor laws and the 8 hour day.

www.u-s-history.com...

Life expectancy for whites was 48 years and nonwhites was only 34. The work force included 1.75 million children under 15 and more than five million women, who sometimes worked for as low as 10 cents for a 10-hour day. Those conditions, the dehumanization of the American laborer in large, and impersonal factories, led to numrous revolts and uprisings.

How dare people stand up for their rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, because that would be so un, er, a Totally American.

Seriously, you belong in Mexico where they don't allow unions.

reply to post by poet1b

Neither your quote nor your link prove any of the harsh claims you make.

If you have any proof of union leaders making millions of dollars in annual salaries like corporate execs, please provide them as proof of union corruption.

Do you see the huge blunder you just made? Salaries vs theft? You're comparing a legal contract with a fraudulent organization.

And salary is only one measure of compensation. Most of the world's billionaires don't work just for money. There are far more lucrative prizes out there..

Here is the real story of Unions in the U.S.

www.socialstudieshelp.com...

Primitive unions, or guilds, of carpenters and cordwainers, cabinet makers and cobblers made their appearance, often temporary, in various cities along the Atlantic seaboard of colonial America. Workers played a significant role in the struggle for independence; carpenters disguised as Mohawk Indians were the "host" group at the Boston Tea Party in 1773. The Continental Congress met in Carpenters Hall in Philadelphia, and there the Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776. In "pursuit of happiness" through shorter hours and higher pay, printers were the first to go on strike, in New York in 1794; cabinet makers struck in 1796; carpenters in Philadelphia in 1797; cordwainers in 1799. In the early years of the 19th century, recorded efforts by unions to improve the workers' conditions, through either negotiation or strike action, became more frequent.

Oh yeah, thank God for unions in the 1700's. I mean, there was such a HUGE labor - management problem at that time. And let us not forget that the signers were masons!

I guess when you talk about thuggery, you are talking about union efforts to end child labor and sweat shops. No doubt you are against child labor laws and the 8 hour day.

Damn right! I say, use up those little muscles while they are still young and don't require too much food! And why do they need more than an hour a day away from the grist mills anyway? What do they want to do, PLAY??? :shk: Damn ingrates. Next thing you know, they'll be wanting to be paid for their work!

www.u-s-history.com...

Life expectancy for whites was 48 years and nonwhites was only 34. The work force included 1.75 million children under 15 and more than five million women, who sometimes worked for as low as 10 cents for a 10-hour day. Those conditions, the dehumanization of the American laborer in large, and impersonal factories, led to numrous revolts and uprisings.

How was this the fault of the early merchants? Same conditions existed the world over...?

How dare people stand up for their rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, because that would be so un, er, a Totally American.

Seriously, you belong in Mexico where they don't allow unions.

I've already stated that I supported collective bargaining. You support large scale fraud. theft, and corruption, such as exists between Obama and the unions today. You won't be happy until every worker is unionized and wears a Red Hammer and Crescent across his chest, like good little communists.

Me, I'm for Freedom of Choice, the American Way. I don't need some union boss to tell me how much I can make and who to vote for. You, a follower, need a union boss, obviously. I just noticed the source of your "info":

The Social Studies Help Center
Social Studies help for 11th grade American History and 12th grade Economics and AP Government. There are class notes, numerous Supreme Court case summaries and information on how to write a research paper inside.

Link

High school Cliffs Notes, for chrissakes! I could've been accused of child abuse, arguing with you!

reply to post by mishigas

Damn right! I say, use up those little muscles while they are still young and don't require too much food! And why do they need more than an hour a day away from the grist mills anyway? What do they want to do, PLAY??? Damn ingrates. Next thing you know, they'll be wanting to be paid for their work!

Glad we cleared that up. The people you support, those billionaires with a higher calling, they make sure children in third world nations enjoy the grist mill.

God forbid we write trade treaties that that prevent this type of abuse.

Those unionizers, clearly a bunch of thugs.

reply to post by poet1b

Damn right! I say, use up those little muscles while they are still young and don't require too much food! And why do they need more than an hour a day away from the grist mills anyway? What do they want to do, PLAY??? Damn ingrates. Next thing you know, they'll be wanting to be paid for their work!

Glad we cleared that up. The people you support, those billionaires with a higher calling, they make sure children in third world nations enjoy the grist mill.

Enjoy? ENJOY?? Are you telling me those urchins are enjoying their work?? They better not be! I want to see misery on those chaingangs!

The floggings will continue until the morale improves.

Those unionizers, clearly a bunch of thugs.

When we were schoolkids, we stole their lunch money. Now that we're grown, we extort their paychecks and call it union dues.

Not sure if this has been posted?



arstechnica.com...

reply to post by mishigas


I understand the local police union reps will be by your house soon to collect a donation.

I suggest you have more than lunch money in your pocket.

Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by poet1b

 

I can almost here the cackle of evil laughter as you write this propaganda garbage. Your whole post has a stench of hatred, bordering on insanity.

Does it bother you that everything you believe is a lie?

I think this is all I want/need to hear from you to suggest that you bow out of this discussion until your temper cools down a bit. An attitude like yours doesn't belong here. Nobody has used such words against you; why must you resort to such attack speech against others?

So, please cool down and take a breather. Or don't; I don't care. Just know that I won't play those games, and I won't respond to any of your posts until you do cool down.

Go listen to Utah Phillips tell stories of how it used to be, before we had the unions and you will then understand the passionate response as evidenced in my erudite fellow senior posters response.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by mishigas

 

Damn right! I say, use up those little muscles while they are still young and don't require too much food! And why do they need more than an hour a day away from the grist mills anyway? What do they want to do, PLAY??? Damn ingrates. Next thing you know, they'll be wanting to be paid for their work!

Glad we cleared that up. The people you support, those billionaires with a higher calling, they make sure children in third world nations enjoy the grist mill.

God forbid we write trade treaties that that prevent this type of abuse.

Those unionizers, clearly a bunch of thugs.

Just imagine if we could form a global union, with global standards for pay!

reply to post by HunkaHunka


GREAT collection of educational vids.

Thanks for that.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Thanks for the videos.

People forget how important union organization has been to the success of the U.S., and our standard of living.

The reason most countries are poor, is because the workers are not allowed to form unions.

The only nation outside of Europe, besides Japan, to succeed economically, and become a first world nation, is S. Korea, and they succeeded by developing strong union organizations.

www.koreatimes.co.kr...

Historical suppression of unions detonated explosive events in summer 1987, when Koreans won democracy after almost a decade of struggle. Union membership soared. So did industrial disputes: between July and September, over 3,000 conflicts occurred, exceeding the total number in the previous two decades. Some were spectacular: Seoul deployed helicopters, landing craft and more riot policemen to break up a strike at Hyundai than the British government had used soldiers to recapture the Falkland Islands. Wages soared across industries. The early-mid 1990s were the heyday of union activism; a general strike in 1997 forced the Kim Young-sam administration to back down from changes to labor laws. But in 1998, with the specter of mass layoffs hovering due to the Asian economic crisis, a Tripartite Commission, formed of representatives of government, management and labor was formed to mediate industrial disputes.

I think you are right, forming an international organization to spread unionization, is what is needed in order to seem human rights advance across the globe.

I think under current world wide events, the time is ripe for such an organization to develop.

China is announcing that they will start raising wages to create domestic demand.

World oil production peeked, which means the beginning of the end to the immense power and wealth monopoly the oil industry has enjoyed. The wealth of the oil industry has been behind the destruction of the U.S. middle class, and the shredding of our rights, but they have over extended themselves, and pay back is coming.

Alternative energy sources that can not be centrally controlled are becoming more and more available.

Automation technology has advanced to the point were large sums of capital are no longer needed for mass production.

Current conditions in the U.S. are not sustainable.

ummmm
do I hear talk in here about a world union ????

maybe you folks have forgotten that unions
only work in democracies.

would love to see what happens if u try
to unionize China or Saudi Arabia.

Let the fireworks begin, YAAAHOOOOO

reply to post by boondock-saint


Global unions. Why not we have global elite, global economy, global corporations. The unions seem to be one step behind there bosses.

reply to post by boondock-saint


Unions have done wonders in monarchies, and totalitarian governments.

It was unionization that ended the dark ages and aristocratic rule of Europe, and jump started the Renaissance.

reply to post by poet1b

I understand the local police union reps will be by your house soon to collect a donation.

I suggest you have more than lunch money in your pocket.

We shoot together every week down to the gun club. We allow them to use our ranges for practice and training; we set aside one day for their exclusive use, gratis. They are thankful, we are more than happy to do it.

And every year, right as rain, they'll be asking for donations for whatever, and we're always glad to pitch in.

In your world, however, the polizei wear jackboots when they come around to visit you. Not in my world.

reply to post by mishigas

In your world, however, the polizei wear jackboots when they come around to visit you. Not in my world.

I am sure you reserve that for the other club you belong to, up in the city. Don't mix me up with your fetishes.

For you, I guess it is just a matter of which union you choose to pay your dues.