Energy cannot be created or destroyed and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction

I want to bring this up solely for the discussion of death. According to the subject title "Energy cannot be created or destroyed and for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" I'd like to gain some insight to other peoples beliefs on what happens when the body dies. NDE's (near death experiences) are the closest we can come to with death without actually dying. So, if we are energy and we die, do we release energy to the world as we know it, or is there something beyond our level of comprehension afterwards?

What about OBE's (out-of-body experiences)? I personally have never experienced one and don't know if I truly believe they happen. However, if it is true, could it mean that our energy would take an astral form after our biological body expires?

Would you consider that death is an action leading to an equal opposite reaction? If so, what kind of reaction would happen?

good question that, will have my brain hurting for rest of night!

A body uses energy to live, and as we age and our bodily processes slow down we consume and expend less energy, so I suppose it balances out in one way. But I wonder if the personality/soul has another form of energy which we don't have units to measure yet, and some people have more of this than others. We need a certain level to be conceived in the first place and I'm not sure that changes throughout our lives. Some people seem to be 'larger than life' or particularly intense individuals, who may have higher levels of this personality/soul energy.

Perhaps that might explain why some seem to only live the once and others feel they have lived many lives. The nearest I've ever been able to come to visualising this is that somewhere out there is a 'psychic reservoir' of this energy from which we are all born and return to when we die. So effectively we've all been alive before but for some reason some people get memories of past lives. I don't think a soul is a discrete entity - you're made of parts of everyone else's and when you die you all get recycled into other lives.

I doubt I've made myself at all clear here, but I hope it makes sense.

That's physics, not spirituality my friend.
Energy cannot be created neither destroyed, when you die you don't loose all the potential energy in your body, your cells will die, shrink annd split into small molecules which have their own amount of energy and wiill react with other molecules all over the universe.

As for death being an action....

well death is an action. The individual that is you ceases to exist in the same state. Perhaps the equal and opposite action is a different form of life, whether your own or the other lives sustained by the decomposition of your physical form

Consider this, if you died and went to Heaven, how long would you stay? If you were just going there (Heaven) to "feel good," you'd be a drug addict. If you went there to do the same things you enjoy over and over, you'd probably be mentally handicapped by the mindless repetition. If you went there to serve God until the end of time, you'd probably be a slave.

My logical answer is a type of rebirth system. I don't mean that you're going to come back as a elephant, but it doesn't negate the possibility. If Heaven is complete freedom, then you should have the freedom to be reborn as an elephant. When you die, it is merely a new beginning, as well as a reflection on the life you lived. Near Death Experiences have cataloged the "reflection" aspect in great detail. God probably did make a Heaven and it is up to you to find it inside of yourself.

If you are like Truth and hate the world so much that you just want Jesus to come and "extract" you like a military mission, you are probably cursing (with actions and words) the world that God created. This leaves 3 kinds of people... those who don't care, those who are always upset with the world, and those who make the best of each moment. With your freedom of choice, choose wisely.

In my heretical way I occasionally wonder if the ideas of Heaven and Hell have been misunderstood. Perhaps they are states of mind in this existance not the afterlife, and what happens after physical death is something entirely different. Buddism teaches about the levels of Hell in this existance, for example the Hungry Ghost is the Hell a drug addict will experience whilst still alive. Would that mean Heaven is a state of mind and not a place we go to when we die? To get there certain aspects of an individual have to die and be reborn - I wonder if the resurrection that Christ taught was in fact a living one.

Yes, I agree with your statements, Arc. The whole thing between Heaven and Hell comes down to justice. If justice exists, then we have to quantify good and evil. The good person goes to heaven and the bad person goes to hell. One a higher level of difficulty, 2 people who are just as good, but with one who lived a harder life would have a greater standing in heaven. Again, this is quantifying good and evil, as well as every level in between. If there is no quantity, there is no justice (in the form we have), so people want justice and they want Heaven and Hell.

The death of the "self" is a very noted occurance in certain beliefs. I'm sure the resurrection can be symbolic of such a thing, but it is still probably scientifically possible for Jesus to be born and to be reborn if he has attained a high spiritual and physical level. Of course, explaining the possible reasoning behind it would take days.

That's physics, not spirituality my friend.
Energy cannot be created neither destroyed, when you die you don't loose all the potential energy in your body, your cells will die, shrink annd split into small molecules which have their own amount of energy and wiill react with other molecules all over the universe.

As for death being an action....

This is coming from a person named antichrist. What the hell do u know about spirituality

[Edited on 22-3-2003 by abstract_alao]

Actually, scientists are examining possibilities of energy and matter being created. It is a new theory that is part of variable speed of light (VSL) theory... maybe it's VLS... I forget at the moment. Either way, the theory does have mathematical basis and reduces some of the oddities of the current Big Bang theory. Read your March edition of Discover Magazine.

Protector, yes, I believe the cration of matter *could* be a consequence of the speed of light being variable in different parts of the universe. (on a side note, someone here posted some stuff about portuguese people not being taken in consideration because they lived in Portugal... the VLS theory is a result of the research of Portuguese scientist Jo�o Magueiro who's new book about this and other theories has just been released in the UK if I am not mistaken). I never thought of that but yes, indeed it could be a possibility.

Abstract_alao
Enough of ad hominem (pseudo) argumentation, just because I am antichristian that means I have no clues about spirituallity? can't people just think about things before saying them?

Arc:
"well death is an action. The individual that is you ceases to exist in the same state. Perhaps the equal and opposite action is a different form of life, whether your own or the other lives sustained by the decomposition of your physical form"
Death is not an action in itself. People are talking about action-reaction and that is physics not spirituallity. Death as the fading of existence is not an action under that terms.

although it is physics, those 2 laws of thermodynamics can be applied to death in a different perspective. since energy cant be created nor destroyed, that would mean when our physical bodies die, our ethereal or astral body/energy still exists......and since there is an equal and opposite reaction for everything....there is an actual etheric existance that makes you, along with your physical body. people call it the soul/spirit. one way to display something similar would be if you stared at a red circle for about 2 minutes, if you look away at a white wall you will see a green circle instead. it also has something to do with your chakras openeing, but thats a whole other subject. Elizabeth Haich explains it perfectly in her book "initiation".

In this message board there is an interesting book (you can download it from the file library, although you have to register in the same way as you did on ATS)

A Lawyer Presents the Case for the Afterlife
By Victor Zammit (in PDF)

www.astralpulse.com...

There's another great one

www.astralpulse.com...

Treatise on OBE
by Robert Bruce
(gives great information on the Astral world and OBE's; in PDF)


www.astralpulse.com...

Originally posted by TheBandit795
In this message board there is an interesting book (you can download it from the file library, although you have to register in the same way as you did on ATS)

A Lawyer Presents the Case for the Afterlife
By Victor Zammit (in PDF)

www.astralpulse.com...



There's another great one

www.astralpulse.com...

Treatise on OBE
by Robert Bruce
(gives great information on the Astral world and OBE's; in PDF)


www.astralpulse.com...

Excellent links bandit, thanks!

Perhaps death is not an action but the reaction from brith?
And as for the energy from our bodies being destroyed after we die, what happens when anything dies? Its body is decomposed and it's energy is returned back to the earth.

reply to post by 29MV29


" What about OBE's (out-of-body experiences)? I personally have never experienced one and don't know if I truly believe they happen. "


I can tell you that they most certainly do happen. Mine happened mostly when I was a child. I only recall being out of my body as an adult, just a few times.



the bottom line is, you're trying to understand a supernatural existence, with restricted senses [ our three dimensions ] goodluck...




[edit on 9-7-2008 by toasted]

The action-reaction statement actually refers to an action that has a reaction of equal magnitude and opposite direction, not contrary in nature. Death is not the kind of action that could have a reaction in the opposite direction. Forces and their associated work and power are.

reply to post by Protector


except that if they prove that energy can in fact be created then they proved all these theories based on the fact that energy can not be created or destroyed wrong and this could mean that when we die nothing happens and everything just stops as you slowly decompose and become something else that is alive ex: trees, animals.

or if they don't prove it wrong then the theory of re incarnation is valid but instead of one species coming back as the same species energy is converted to other forms of energy and humans are turned into dirt and trees which are eventually eaten by other animals and so on and we are all connected in a way.

(just my personal theories)

-Anonymous

What about the electrical energy in the brain? That can't just cease to be, can it? It must go somewhere. When the brain shuts off, it's not like how a muscle simply stops using kinetic energy (say, as with the heart for example). The brain afterall, controls the heart. The electrical currents in the brain stop, so the heart stops working. But the electrical currents themselves, those energies that allow us to think and be conscious of ourselves - what happens to them? They can't be destroyed, or simply cease to be.

I'm no doctor, physicist, or expert in any related field. I'm just a curious bystander. Perhaps the question is ridiculous, but if anyone has any thoughts on this I'd love to hear them.

Originally posted by arc
In my heretical way I occasionally wonder if the ideas of Heaven and Hell have been misunderstood. Perhaps they are states of mind in this existance not the afterlife, and what happens after physical death is something entirely different. Buddism teaches about the levels of Hell in this existance, for example the Hungry Ghost is the Hell a drug addict will experience whilst still alive. Would that mean Heaven is a state of mind and not a place we go to when we die? To get there certain aspects of an individual have to die and be reborn - I wonder if the resurrection that Christ taught was in fact a living one.

Arc, When you say Buddhism teaches this to, your speaking of Zen Buddhism. Mahayana Buddhism, Theravada Buddhism, etc take more of a spiritualistic kind of approach that is, they believe consciousness lives on, the realms of Buddhism are states that apply to an individual after death (Which are temporary) etc..

Just clarifying....

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
What about the electrical energy in the brain? That can't just cease to be, can it? It must go somewhere. When the brain shuts off, it's not like how a muscle simply stops using kinetic energy (say, as with the heart for example). The brain afterall, controls the heart. The electrical currents in the brain stop, so the heart stops working. But the electrical currents themselves, those energies that allow us to think and be conscious of ourselves - what happens to them? They can't be destroyed, or simply cease to be.

A computer also has a brain that's operation depends on electrical currents... when it crashes yes it will turn on, but if it shorts out, does it not stop turning on? Even if it is still plugged in?

Great you just made me prove that energy can be eliminated from a source, I mean the current is still there technically, but the computer will never work again. I think I just proven when we die, we die, the plug is pulled out and the current goes onto something else. Like chi can be equated to this when our chi leaves it goes onto something else, but does it bring conciousness with it? That's the question I can't answer for sure, but I think it does, or moreso I hope it does.