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Is the Internet Being Used (right now) to Start World War III?

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posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


I recognize you are a valuable contributor, and I appreciate you posts, just had to call you out on that one.

Bush deserved all the bashing he could get, and then some, and it can not be overstated how dirty of a politician Cheney truly was.

How did Halliburton, a oil well cement company get all of those no bid contracts for work in Iraq?

Blaming Clinton for Newt Gingriches banking de-regulation scheme is going too far. While Clinton made his share of mistakes, overall he did a pretty good job as president, and the nineties was an excellent decade primarily because of Clinton.

Obama might be in over his head, but he has been a whole lot better than Bush/Cheney. Obama put bonus restrictions on the bailouts that saved us hundreds of billions of dollar ($500,000,000,000, not sure exact amount).

Obama has increase border patrol, and is going after businesses that hire illegals.

Obama is going after the Wall Street crooks who destroyed our economy.

There are things I don't like about the liberal elites who have taken over the democratic party, but there is a difference between the two parties, just not enough of a difference.

I have watched all of these changes go down. I remember when they eliminated the usury laws, under Carter, which was his biggest mistake. You might want to consider that I am better informed than you are.

I know who JP Morgan was, and the midnight vote to create the Fed Res.

I predicted the 2008 collapse back in 2005. Heck, the writing was on the wall once Newt got his banking dereg passed.

I also know that the U.S. was deeper in debt at the end of WW II than we are today, and that with high tax rates the U.S. lowered its debt to acceptable levels, and rebuilt our countries infrastructure in a little over a decade.

The U.S. built the Apollo programs, while fighting the Vietnam war, with out creating the debt that we now owe.

We have the capability to rebuild the U.S., and it needs to be done, cut our national debt down to reasonable levels, and raise our standards of living. It has been done many times before, and it can be done again.

Let's not forget this. The PTB can be beaten, and it has been done many times.




posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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I think it is. Of course it is. Look at the tractor, the cat tracks.... tanks. Airplane, warplane. Robot, robot with gun. However all these things still have peaceful purposes. I agree that fictitious names and characters on the net abuse it, the cowardice of anononimity.
I don't know what to do. I won't have a global government, I won't bow down. We have to come together to defeat this machine, but at the end I want to go home and raise goats under my own national flag. Other cultures are different than mine, thank YHWH.
I think that we have to act. (Duh) It's dangerous, yes you might be set up. If you know the truth of the world then you already know how much risk is involved. But if we don't draw a line in the sand and take that risk then it's already over, drink your flouride and go home. Is anything worth fighting for anymore.
Watch this and you tell me.
www.youtube.com...
I put my name on it. If you look up my name you'll find whatever you want to know about me. That's my solution to the anonomous problem. Man up and show your face. I'll regret it, sure. But I was honest
edit on 4-3-2011 by crazymedskill because: forgot something



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


Appalling.

To say the least.

And these idiots, the corporation, contribute to the delinquency of minors.

As well as graduate level college students.

Obviously, honor is not in their vocabulary, now is it?

The decay of society and the fast-forwarding of the dumbing down of America is evident.

It makes me violently ill to know these people exist.

Whether we're talking about the cheaters or their accomplices the corporation writing for them.

At the very least, typing up a report, should be a basic skill as well as spelling.



Content, context, and intent are all important.

If you're not clear on that then you honestly have nothing worth saying.

At least not that I want to hear.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Proto,
I responded to you on page 17 but perhaps you did not see it. I was curious what your response might be. I disagree with you partially. I think the software bot thing is only a part of it not the main cause. Here is the post in case you decide to respond.

reply to post by hawkiye
 




Sure my friend I read your post and agree with much of what you have to say.

There is no shortage of problems in the world, attributed directly too imperfect and corrupt government systems.

Problems typically require solutions. On this I think we can all agree.

However I don't see computer software being abused by imperfect governments to paint a false, conflicting, and wilffuly dishonest picture is a solution but rather leads to and contributes towards a greater problem.

For instance Egypt now having a military government. Where I come from that's called MARTIAL LAW.

I don't really see how American Warplanes enforcing a nofly zone in Libya by first 'bombing' anti-aircraft sites on the ground which will no doubt include a lot of civilian casualties is THE WAY THE DEAD CIVILIANS WOULD HAVE PREFERRED IT HANDLED.

Call me crazy, but I sure am guessing they would have preferred a different and better solution.

Problems require solutions not just actions that lead to a greater problem.

Where I come from we call that LIP SERVICE.

Pretending that doing anything is better than nothing, and well even though it doesn't appear to have solved the problem, and things have in fact gone from bad to worse, and no one yet has a solution, but everyone is prepared to believe that was a solution to said problem, well...sorry.

I don't see this working out real well for the people and how could it with things like dishonest governments spreading their propaganda and lies to everyone everywhere in any way they can.

So proto says steady, let's sort it out and look for some real solutions.

The great thing about a real solution is there is not a way in the world they can stop it from happening if it's actually a real solution.

Because of the propaganda war it's hard to find honest and knowlegable parties to formulate a solution, which is why I declare the use of said software unsportsman like, and am throwing a penalty flag on the play.


edit on 4/3/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 





Problems require solutions not just actions that lead to a greater problem.

Where I come from we call that LIP SERVICE.

Pretending that doing anything is better than nothing, and well even though it doesn't appear to have solved the problem, and things have in fact gone from bad to worse, and no one yet has a solution, but everyone is prepared to believe that was a solution to said problem, well...sorry.

I don't see this working out real well for the people and how could it with things like dishonest governments spreading their propaganda and lies to everyone everywhere in any way they can.

So proto says steady, let's sort it out and look for some real solutions.

The great thing about a real solution is there is not a way in the world they can stop it from happening if it's actually a real solution.


I think you are overlooking something here and assuming this was more of an ad hoc protest perhaps incited by the software bots etc. with no thought for what would happen if the government was toppled which it was. If they were following Gene Sharps book he emphasises the importance of having am over all strategic plan. From what i gathered from some of the news interviews and research the protesters do have a plan. However they took a calculated risk in trusting the military and it appears it may be a mistake. But I promise you it is not over and this was just the first step in their plan. The fact that they were non-violent minimized the casualties. Another point of Gene Sharps book. Had they not cooperated with the military they likely would have had something similar to Libya.


These kids have a revolutionary Youth council they are not just protesting willy nilly they have a plan they are trying to follow. I suspect they are talking with the military now to resolve issues and hold them to thier word. Also how do we know the news reports of the military crack down were correct in that they were cracking down on protesters and not cracking down on on other radicals who were trying to take advantage of the situation? Also the group they cracked down on was much smaller. if their are no elections held they will have millions in the streets again.

Also despite the attempt of the Muslim brotherhood trying to take control they were no Muslim banners in the square according to one of the leaders of the youth council, they did not want this to be a call for Muslim fundamentalism. This is a good sign.

There is a hunger there for freedom. The youth in the more developed middle eastern countries love western culture and hunger for freedom. I did some work for a young Iranian Gal who was brought here by here Tyrant husband but lucky for her he died and she told me the young people there hate thier governments and love the American ideals of freedom etc. She said there is a huge under current among the young people in Iran. She said the protests in Iran last year were brewing for a long time and it was not operatives inciting it. The Youth have been clamouring for it for decades. I suspect it is the same on the other countries. too.

I think the US interfering with the no fly zone etc. is an attempt of our corrupt leaders to take control also and the Libyans who have declared thier freedom have told us to stand down. But as you said If there is a true hunger for freedom nothing will stop it. it may have some set backs but it will break through eventually despite the meddling of us and other countries and factions trying to take advantage of it.

This is more then an incited uprising with no rhyme or reason. I am under no illusions it might fail and the people might end up worse off. However I will support anyones bid for real freedom by those brave enough to stand up for it.
edit on 4-3-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 02:28 AM
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I think we got 'em!

if all of us check the pattern of my posts on this thread, we see how the bot(s) played right into our hands!

they took the minnows ---- hook line and sinker!

but of course, that was part of their plan ... to test all possibilities ...


the perfect play, except we are going to allow them to KNOW ........ THIS time!

interesting responses by my good buddie and great attempts at "provocation" by "the live one"!


I'm glad Proto figured it out while still responding with normal logic to the "on topic" posts while appearing to "ignore" the gibberish between the lines!

a good learning example of multitasking!

the "dead giveaway" by the poster in question was on p22 -- it wasn't gibberish and looks "more genuine"! A deliberate mistake? who knows? www.abovetopsecret.com...

crimvelvet's information about the agriculture cartel and how it has gone "international" is "golden" to say the least! They definitely are playing a role in the worldwide turbulence.

Epiphron's suggestion to "fight fire with fire" was a great opportunity to actually attempt an "all-in bet", as they were probably expecting that very thing! First it was a nibble, then a strike!

and the "Heads-Up" (to me) by Illusionsaregrander was a perfect "stairway to Heaven"!

All the other posters -- jackflap - poet1b - ImaginaryReality1984, and everybody else who has contributed here continued "on topic" with unbelievable information!, while some of us "played the game" .... not chess either .... this was just a game of checkers with a side game of tic tac toe to stimulate the boredom!

i was hoping Josephus23 was going to get involved, but He has come late I see --- the game would have been - and still could be - livelier with His input!

Perhaps a game of No-Limit Poker (with REAL money) would be a better choice in the future?

Three-Dimensional chess may be OK too!


Julius Caesar would be proud! the perfect result to the perfect setup!


Let's see what else happens!!!!





edit on 5-3-2011 by xuenchen because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 05:27 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


I HOPE, and suspect, your are right.

In truth, that is what seems to be happening.

The words have been spoken, the song has been sung. The people of the world have just begun.

Our hopes and dreams are starting to merge as one.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


It would be nice if protestors actually had a plan, but alas my friend all they really have is an idea, and an abstract one at best.

To give you a notion of whats the difference between an idea and a plan, let's look at that fun game the Powers that Be use the U.S. Military for called "Regime Change".

It starts out with a lot of intelligence on the ground and indentifies things like where are the resources, you will need those to feed and sustain a popultion so identifying where they are is a really big element, where are the government buildings and ministries, these are the building blocks of the society, getting their people out and your people in is essential. What does the grid look like, you need a good map so you can mark all these things and devise routes to gain control of them efficiently, where are the broadcast centers, radio, tv, cellular phone, internet etc, where are the power stations and substations, where are emergency fuel and grain supplies.

You will want to control all these things.

You are going to want to figure out how many people you need to control these things, and yes, you really are going to want people who know how to run an electrical grid taking over the power station and people who know how to run a cellular grid taking over the phone companies, ect. etc.

You of course are going to want suitable transportation to both take these over and for key personnel to get around back and forth once they have.

You are going to want a heirachy of a clear chain of command and secure communications so they can converse back and forth with one another on progress and then to run the show when you take over.

Ideally you have written some kind of constitution or plan for government that you can post on every telephone and light pole and public building etc.

Your going to need some cash, well lot's of cash to pay people and bribe people to get it all up and running.

You need to have some very identifiable leaders to both run it and put a face to it all.

That's more or less a plan.

The War Department would spend months to years formulating and mapping out such a plan and pulling all the elements together and then staging them.

Going down to the square to carry placards and signs and sing and make chants is more or less an idea.

A very general idea, that is designed to rid the people of something at best, but not to create any real viable substitute at all.

Hence you have Martial Law now under a pretty guise of a military dictatorship and if you want to say that's an accidental or unforseen byproduct then what you are basically saying is the planning on the part of the people SUCKED!

Now when it comes to real planning, the kind our military does lets throw in another real portion of their plans, get the people to protest and agitate, and cause chaos and make the government spend precious time and resources dealing with them!

Get them ideally to want what you want, or at least enough of them to stick on CNN to sell that to the American people and now you can justify a take over with your very real plan, because the people who you tricked and manipulated into protesting and putting pressure on the government that both they and you want to get rid of had no plan to sieze control and run the country at all.

In part because you helped make sure there never was a plan developed by them by infecting their conversations with propaganda and bots, and told them they didn't really need a plan, just to go out and do what's convenient for you to your plan!

What would be a bad idea is yet more nations following this disasterous blueprint by making up pie in the sky stories about how great and noble it is to throw a great big monkey wrench into the existing order, without any plan at all for a new order, and order period.

It is what it is, and bottom line, without planning, leaders, coordination, chains of command, clear objectives, ones that put you in control of the renewable resources that sustain a urban population you haven't won anything but 10 seconds of fame on CNN.

It really is simple, and if you need fairy tales to summon the courage to do something equally ill thought out, you will end up with the same or worse bad results.

Pretty simple.


edit on 5/3/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


You just hit the nail on the head Proto....

This was the EXACT reason for one of my posts in another of your threads.
Revolutions are never "true revolutions", but merely reactions.

It would be a revolution if the people had a plan in place for AFTER the revolt.
As sad as this sounds, this would be much more effective if treated with the calm demon-like demeanor of a corporate takeover (bad analogy).

As it is currently, the people have been purposely provoked and angered because both their and their family's mere survival have been put at stake. This causes a fight or flight instinct and when someone is in this mental framework, then they are reactive and much easier to manipulate or control.

We are reduced to using our most basic of all brain functions, some would call it the reptilian brain, and we lose our connection to our gained evolutionary advantages.
Mostly the use of reasoning and logic, all due to our highly developed frontal lobe.

While it is true that revolutions are the repeat of old events, meaning to revolve, I do think that Reich described the situation a bit more succinctly with his use of the word reaction instead of revolution.

Because when the people's anger and reactions are complete, they will be left with a military with more power (aids the West), a puppet dictator like the LIAR Obama (aids the West), and the temporary satiation of feeling victory, similar to the election of Obama (aids the West).

Great points Proto.

We do not need to merely PEACEFULLY revolt, but we need a plan of action in place for what to do after the people take back what is rightfully theirs, but we need it before the people take back what is rightfully theirs, or we will be left with another plan given to us by TPTB.

Cheers.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Let's say a large group of concerned citizens get together and really work on a plan to take over a tv station, or radio station with the express goal of restoring a free and democratic society. Their goals are good, their methods are non violent but do require action. At some point, if their plan leaks then they will all be rounded up, arrested and labelled as terrorists.

This is the problem, any plan against the government makes you a terrorist, even if your plan is to restore the various laws your country uses to protect peoples freedoms. So even though you are standing up for democracy, trying to protect the people from abusive laws and government actions, you are the terrorist.

This sort of means that violent and unplanned revolution is often the only way for people to change their government.

Of course people will say we have the right to vote to change things, but history shows us that the party with the most funding tends to win the election, and that's because the propoganda influences most voters. So essentially the rich, through political donations are actually voting multiple times rather than each person having one voice and one vote.

I can understand how most political activists feel rather frustrated in their efforts.
edit on 5-3-2011 by ImaginaryReality1984 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


You are correct plotting against the government(s) will get you in hot water here or anywhere.

Yet the truth is there is a huge criminal class both in the United States and throughout the world, who run and make decent livings off of black market enterprises by doing two critical things.

1. Ignoring the law
2. Conspiring to get away with ignoring the law

They take their 'chances' to live and thrive in many cases 'outside' of the paremeters of the system because they know two things.

1. The system conspires to keep people from living idependently on their own terms
2. There is often an added profit to be had because the price can reflect the 'risks' involved.

Here is the long and short of it, because there is no real mechanism to change a government that is corrupt and tyranical the only class of people who can conspire effectively by coming up with a real plan to change it is the "Outlaw".

This is how the Magna Carta came about, a group of English Outlaws defying the King and planning out a new system and then using their combined determination and force of arms to force the King to accept that.

They all took a chance just like any criminal does, does for ADDED rewards.

If you want to be a law abiding citizen then you pretty much do have to comply with the edicts of the government that make the laws.

Yet millions of Americans have no problem ignoring the law when it comes to day to day survival or getting rich.

So there really is no shortage of people who have the 'potential' and psychological makeup and predisposition to function in a capacity of actively planning to 'improve' our government system to the chagrin of the existing system.

Proto says no pain no gain, no risk no gain.

Want a safe comfy life taking your chances with the powers that be, absolution from the state for obeying all 600,000 of it's edicts, and crossing your fingers they aren't going to poison or radiate you with the products that they sell for you to consume or use, or just create a scenario that they drop bombs on you, so you can get that ticket to God's heaven?

Go for it.

Want to change the world, dare to be different and let the chips fall where they may.

Ultimately yes, some people are going to have to go to jail, others will have to die, because the people who have power are rutheless, cunning and murderous and will stop at nothing to maintain power.

They will when it suits them task you to give them your last full measure of devotion.

Shame on you if there is nothing you would give your last full measure of devotion for, for those you love and care about and yourself.

This is our world and it doesn't stop being that way just because people wish it so, they have to make it so, and yes my friend, that's going to definately be against the law.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


Actually the way to do this would be to start a grass roots NGO. They can engage in political activity and dissent while not being labeled as seditious.

Granted there are ways around the issues at hand, like NGO's, but they are fraught with complications, purposefully.
This is no different than making a church a 501c3 organization.

It stopped them from making their flock politically active.

Church's were the bully pulpit for politics before NGO's, but only a church is disallowed from being political active openly.
Other NGO's have the expressed purpose of being political active.

A person with the correct knowledge of Admiralty Law versus Common Law would be able to skirt around these issues of treason and sedition.
edit on 3/5/2011 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by Josephus23
 


Another excellent post Josephus, it's great to have you here and joining in. You were sorely missed.

I think a hostile corporate takeover is the best and most fitting analogy since ours is a corporate government that caters to the corporations that control the resources and infrastructure.

So the people need leverage and a plan, the leverage to take over the corporation, and a plan on how to better run it.

The people do in fact have leverage though it is hard to employ, refusing to buy their products, pay their taxes, and work for them will in fact make their position untenable and obsolete.

It will also of course create a lot of hardships amongst the people and a very difficult period where those that still have within the system, are not going to be particuarly well disposed to those have nots who want to change it.

Honestly I find by ignoring every rule the government makes works out for me just fine, but that's me I am the life long rebel, who has taken the life long risks, not the Johnny Come Lately to the Ballroom thinking about taking his first dance.

In reality the huge blackmarket criminal underclass doesn't bother to openly rebel because they privately rebel already, and long have, by making their own choices of how to live and make a living and accepting that there are as always consequences for every action.

One of the big problems here is the notion of 'security' that all govermnets try to sell, obey our laws, do what we say, and you too could have a house with a white picket fence in a nice quiet neighborhood with no crime, where everyone will smile at you and wish you a pleasant day on the way home from your nice job in one of your 2.3 cars to sit down with your wife and 2.5 kids for a lovely meat and potato dinner, God will love you and give you eternal rewards and in the meantime the State will protect you and not throw you in jail.

Unfortunately the State never provides the level of security it is selling people on the notion that they can and they should want, in part because they don't even try to, because a totally secure society would not allow for the excessive government and without a real element of chaos and fear to sell government programs with, it could not be overly intrusive and corrupt and above all it couldn't be profitible and all controlling.

So ultimately government conspires to never deliver the very thing it promises to get people to turn to it, submit to it and rely on it.

When people get beyond the notion that government should or could protect you from every random act in a universe full of infinite possibilities then they can start making some 'good' choices about what level of government and what kind of government really serves the people instead of the corporations who simply use government to formalize their control of all the resources needed to sustain life, which is in fact their leverage over us the people.

Hostile corporate takeover sounds about right to me!



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Let's say a large group of concerned citizens get together and really work on a plan to take over a tv station, or radio station with the express goal of restoring a free and democratic society. Their goals are good, their methods are non violent but do require action. At some point, if their plan leaks then they will all be rounded up, arrested and labelled as terrorists.

This is the problem, any plan against the government makes you a terrorist, even if your plan is to restore the various laws your country uses to protect peoples freedoms. So even though you are standing up for democracy, trying to protect the people from abusive laws and government actions, you are the terrorist.

This sort of means that violent and unplanned revolution is often the only way for people to change their government.

Of course people will say we have the right to vote to change things, but history shows us that the party with the most funding tends to win the election, and that's because the propoganda influences most voters. So essentially the rich, through political donations are actually voting multiple times rather than each person having one voice and one vote.

I can understand how most political activists feel rather frustrated in their efforts.
edit on 5-3-2011 by ImaginaryReality1984 because: (no reason given)

Please do not be offended by my post, I apologize in advance but this is important and one of the reasons we are int he predicament we are in.

Firstly, good posts by a few here. Secondly, we must recognize certain "words" for what the legal meaning IS. As Bill Clinton once put it, define "IS". Funny. Anyway, the first word is "Citizens", and not citizens. Capital "C" makes it a noun and not just an adjective describing an alleged human being. A citizen is one of the United States and NOT an American national. An American national and State Sovereign is a Citizen.

Then we have the term "terrorist". What is the legal meaning of that? One who terrorizes? Well, if we take over a station and speak the truth, as is our natural born right, then we are educators and NOT terrorists. The "government", or the policy enforcement officers, who express the use of force by verbal or paper form, are then the terrorists. Lets call the kettle black here. They are stating that they will remove us or stop us from voicing the truth by the use of force or restraint or detainment. THAT is terrorism.

Many things have happened in the past 250 years that few people understand. If they were to look at it with an objective view, they may see it, "the plan." TPTB will incite a few things here and there for reactionary purposes, then they will adjust their plans or agenda to best suit the next phase. Adjustments always need to be made with anything. Problem, reaction, solution.

I think the interent did not turn out they way that they, TPTB, thought it was going to work, it backfired, now they are scrambling to save themselves. I find this most humorous. The one thing they thought was going to give them ultimate control has exposed so much more. The problem is that most living souls can't see it, the chemicals in the food and water have worked to a degree to dumbdown the populace and made them unable to comprehend themselves or their existence as the power BEHIND the "government".

So then, voting does not matter. You do not NEED to register anything nor register FOR anything. When you register to vote, you are giving consent for your vote to be changed, sound illegal, of course it is, but who really knows how everyone voted? When you register your car, your gun, your home or anything else like your children, you are giving the control TO the "corporation/government". This is a well known fact by many.

So, because the interent did not accomplish what it was intended to do, they must use FORCE now, by means of disinfo agents and provocators to get the masses wound up and in fighting mode, physically.

We see this in the Tea Partiers, they are controlled, a mass of sheep following a leader to cause chaos and ambiguity everywhere, who knows what to believe anymore? Mitt Romney is the King of all this, he has benefited most from it all, Ron Paul has contributed some but I am not sure how deep his cover is?

Only time will tell what the outcome will be. I will wait patiently.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by daddio
 


Ultimately we would have to know what the Powers that Be precise plan for the internet is/was before we can determine whether or not it's working out for them.

I do see it as doing two things for them at the very least.

It helps them to further program and confuse people through propaganda.

It helps them to identify who is not confused and accepting the propaganda.

This is of course above and beyond the way it has allowed their businesses to communicate instantly and process transactions and run huge control grids, distribution, processing, spying, banking and war systems through it, as well as deliver some key government services.

Seems like it's working out pretty well for them to me so far, in a process that well involves ordering and identifying ellements and ordering them some more.

After all that is pretty much what computers do.

Personally I don't feel people are ever well served operating off of and reacting to assumptions based on hopeful or wishful or thinking born through not having all the pieces to the puzzle.

I don't honestly know what all the Powers that Be envision the internet doing for them, so there is no way to say they are winning at and through it's use, or losing through our use of it.

Presently they are in a better position to direct force and resolute actions through it's use, since after all they control the laws, military and police, prisons etc.

If I had to guess I would say they have the upper hand, but it always serves them to let others imagine that they are in control.

If you follow Von Clausewitz thinking, you want to...

a. let your enemy imagine they are in control
b. martial your forces in a centralized location

As far as military resources go they do have their forces martialed pretty much in the Middle East, their Central Command, and by all accounts if they are using the Internet as an Offensive Weapon to create instability there, then yes they are in fact following great strategy and doctrine, and in essence operating in a vacum of impunity if you imagine that you are in control and they are not.

Some food for thought my friend.



edit on 5/3/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by daddio
Please do not be offended by my post, I apologize in advance but this is important and one of the reasons we are int he predicament we are in.

Firstly, good posts by a few here. Secondly, we must recognize certain "words" for what the legal meaning IS. As Bill Clinton once put it, define "IS". Funny. Anyway, the first word is "Citizens", and not citizens. Capital "C" makes it a noun and not just an adjective describing an alleged human being. A citizen is one of the United States and NOT an American national. An American national and State Sovereign is a Citizen.


I'm in the UK so i'm afraid this entire argument of yours doesn't refer to me in the same way. I don't mean to be rude but it's a good idea to remember this is an international website rather than presume everyone is an american. As for using citizen rather than Citizen, it's an internet forum and not a legal document, calm down lol.


Originally posted by daddio
Then we have the term "terrorist". What is the legal meaning of that? One who terrorizes? Well, if we take over a station and speak the truth, as is our natural born right, then we are educators and NOT terrorists. The "government", or the policy enforcement officers, who express the use of force by verbal or paper form, are then the terrorists. Lets call the kettle black here. They are stating that they will remove us or stop us from voicing the truth by the use of force or restraint or detainment. THAT is terrorism.


I was not saying such people would be terrorists if they overtake a radio station, i am simply pointing out how they will be painted and dealt with. If anyone did such a thing then they would be branded as terrorists, arrested and imprisoned for a long time. On the news it would be "terrorists take over station" and not "liberty activists take over station to defend your rights and freedoms".


Originally posted by daddio
So then, voting does not matter. You do not NEED to register anything nor register FOR anything. When you register to vote, you are giving consent for your vote to be changed, sound illegal, of course it is, but who really knows how everyone voted? When you register your car, your gun, your home or anything else like your children, you are giving the control TO the "corporation/government". This is a well known fact by many.


I disagree, there are many good reasons to register all of those things. Not all aspects of government are bad and we must remember to keep that in mind. Registering to vote for example is needed to reduce electoral fraud.

Of course keeping a paper and pen voting system is also key to avoiding fraud, i know too much about computers to trust an electronic voting system.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I agree that people will have to end up putting their freedom at risk to achieve change, however i am pointing out one very clear difference between past revolutions and any modern one. In the past you could conspire without any real difficulty, now we have so many systems in place to track, monitor and log absolutely everyone and everything that any form of organised plan would be exposed rather quickly. This is why terrorists work in splinter cells, they recognise you can only trust maybe 4-5 people with any plan before the risk of exposure simply becomes too great.

I simply do not believe any modern movement could form a plan for overtaking and restoring any western democracy. I believe when people finally get fed up we will see more riots like the UK's poll tax fiasco or the LA riots in the US. I don't want that to happen i just think it's the way it will go down.

Of course there is the distinct possibility nothing ill ever happen. Even here in the UK the student protests have simply dwindled without anything changing. At the start it was big, it looked like the government would be forced into changing their minds and then within a couple of weeks it died right down. It's like peoples anger only lasts until they have vented their frustration and then the only people who remain are the well informed ones who actually care.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Great points once again my brother...

The most entertaining aspect (another bad analogy) to this entire debacle is that we DO have the leverage to take back what is rightfully ours.
And that leverage is us, we thee people.
Contrary to popular myth, the entire US money supply is backed by something.
It is not completely worthless fiat currency like everyone believes...

It is backed by tax dollars that are the gain of the sweat and labor of The US American Worker Bee.

That is why we have a birth certificate (which is a contract of employment with the Corporate Federal Government by way of the state btw... this revelation might make you question the whole Obama birth certificate debacle. Birth Certificates are contracts with both the state and federal governments that "voluntarily" make you an employee/citizen of the US Federal Government Corporation, an employee who has deceitfully agreed to be taxed without question. If Obama's BC is really lost, then he technically is not contractually obligated to pay taxes. His long form BC is somewhere, probably in Kenya).

And a social security card, which is the instrument used to force us to violate our 5th Amendment rights each year when we declare our earnings, can only be obtained through a legit birth certificate (I mean, according to UCC contract law....we have to sign off on the gub'ments ability to rape us of our tax dollars through a wholly unconstitutional un-apportioned tax that covers the treasury bills and notes sold by the completely independent arm of the IMF known as the US Treasury Dept., and most of these T-bills and notes are bought by the privately owned Federal Reserve).

My Birth Certificate, which was forcibly signed by my parents containing my mom's maiden name rather than her married name technically making me a ward of the state, and my Social Security Card, are yet two other contracts whose true ramifications I was too young to understand when I signed my name on the dotted line at 8 YEARS OLD FOR CHRIST"S SAKE.
(is it not illegal for a child of that age to enter into any type of contract?.... I guess that is why they make the parents do it by surrogate BEFORE the friggin' child even leaves the hospital)

We still have the power to take this back Proto. We have the leverage because we greatly outnumber them.

Ultimately they depend upon us, not the other way around.
But man they sure do have some killer propaganda that makes us think otherwise.

And as far as a plan.

We already have one.

It's called the first 13 Amendments to the US Constitution.
Oh yeah.... And repeal every signing statement from the time of Abe Lincoln, who first declared martial law in 1863, and we have been living in that same state ever since.
(tell me peanut gallery, did you know we have two flags in America: one for peace and one for war. Link to explanations and examples. When is the last time you even heard that we flew a different flag when we were not at war? Because the horizontal stars and bars is a WARTIME flag only, and it is consequently the only US flag, other than the admiralty flag, that we have ever known. Seems to me like we have been at WAR since, well, at least since my birth)

Take away the state of emergency, or martial law, and all those signing statements lose all validity and authority.

If we are to make this world great then WE are the chosen generation to endure the suffering necessary to restore order. Sorry folks, but that is the cold hard truth.

Don't think about what we are in now, but think about the trends, think about what our forefathers left for us, and embrace our duty as Americans to restore balance to our republic and we will be as venerated as the founding fathers.

Always remember. TPTB are WAY more afraid of us than we are of them.
They use fear to keep us at bay, and so far it has worked like a charm.

"We have nothing to fear but fear itself" - JFK

The only way to take back what is ours is to work within the system. It still can be changed. The internet is no longer a viable resource of grass routes movements, but we now have been given the truth.

The problem has now become, what do we do with it?
edit on 3/5/2011 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by TinfoilTP

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by xuenchen
 


Very interesting connection ianchattan joined and made his first post to this thread on 3/1/2011.

TinfoilTP (swich the P with the T and you might have Protoplasmic Traveler) also joiined and made his first post to this thread on 3/1/2011!

ianchattan has only made posts to this thread.

TinfoilTP has primarily only posted to this thread except for a couple of Libyan and Iranian threads.

Judging by the quality of ianchattan's post, and the frustration in TinfoilTP's posts I would say TinfoilTP is not happy with the overall quality of the HB Gary software.

We certainly do seem to have the sockpuppet (ianchattan) and the meat puppet TinfoilTP, in what is very likely an effort to see if even the discerning minds on this thread can be fooled by the use of this software.

I believe we are getting a little mini-demonstration of how this software works.

I think they want us to piece that together, and to conclude that the software does not work very well and we should not be alarmed or concerned about it.

Whoever sits at the other end you can quote me "I am flattered really I am, but I absolutely am going to expose you all, and stop the Shadow Government's plans".

Pass that up the line please!

Thanks!
edit on 4/3/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)


They say paranoia often accompanies dillusion. Are you in denial that plain ordinary people from these middle east countries used facebook, twitter, and cellphone photo technology all by themselves? According to you, that had to be accompanied with shadow governments and cyber zombies. You give no credit to what the real ordinary people over there have done and ignore the facts such as the despotic leaders had no clue it was coming evidenced by their shutdown of the internet after it was too late.
How does this fit your paranoia? Were the old despots not in with the NWO? Are the new rebel leaders NWO? If they have control of everything, why would they create chaos or raise the price of oil? According to your theory they control everything anyway so what are they trying to control when there is nothing left they do not control?

Turning any dissenters here in this thread into cyber zombies was desperate but expected.



the old despots were installed by TPTB in past generations.

decades ago, the North African oil infrastructure needed to be upgraded with populations to do the labor under foreign contractor rule.

the Saudis were preparing for a major demand increase to be provided primarily by the U.S. by agreement.

oil production upgrades on several fronts were necessary to provide redundancy as the Middle East was a battle ground (by design) in the 60's and 70's.

to satisfy the populations, dictators were installed by creating problems and solutions popular with the target nations.

hence we now have outdated technology that needs another upgrade and expansion.

the same nations will now get "new" and popular Leadership. the "popularity" will be dictated by the media outlets that will convince all of us that these new leaders will be "selected" by popular demand!

destructive measures (military actions, book burnings, etc) will allow new technology to become useful and profitable. chaos = opportunity.

TPTB board of directors are now taking applications for open positions.

to pay for all this, the price of oil will rise and fall as predicted. profits will be made on both tidal waves.

future money funnels will provide whirlpool profits to all involved ...

you see, TPTB are simply "refinancing" and "consolidating", a classic MBA restructuring plan.

all major players are merely "seat holders" in TPTB board room. some may actually be "stock holders" with "proxy power".

most "leadership" are simply managers and directors that maintain the changing scenery.



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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I've seriously been looking into this stuff and I've come across some things that are disheartening. We must realize how in depth and complete the PTB have sutdied the possibilities and reactions of human beings. I have found that it was broken down into mathematical formulas and tested.


A QUANTUM MODEL OF CONTROL FOR MULTI-AGENT SYSTEMS



ABSTRACT - The major unsolved problem of social interaction, studied with social psychology from the 1920s and game theory from the 1940s, is to distinguish a group of individuals from its disaggregate. Apparently, social interactions cannot be simulated efficiently with traditional methods. The failure to solve this problem efficiently likely will preclude agent autonomy, especially with multi-agent systems using reinforcement or adaptive learning for control. In contrast, the quantum perturbation model has made progress in understanding social interaction with field evidence and a mathematical model of the two factors of action and observational uncertainty based on the entangled members of a group. We have extended our findings to organizational and argument theory. We begin to extend our work, a work-in-progress, to control theory. Keywords: Quantum agents, perturbations, organizations



INTRODUCTION - Computational social models predicated on traditional social learning theory (e.g., game theory) assume that action information I and observation I are equivalent — similar to the assumption of perfect I in game theory, where interdependence is crafted through the configuration of arbitrarily valued, forced choices. The general result of these models underscores the value of cooperation (Axelrod, 1984; Nowak, et al., 2000) to forcibly seek consensus in decision making; the greater value of an individual compared with a group rational perspective (Stroebe and Diehl, 1994); and the lack of trust from the competition or conflict inherent in the majority rule of democratic decision making (Worchel, 1999).


This is from a PDF that I downloaded and saved on my computer. It is called Challenges In Social Simulation. It was created by Argonne National Laboratories. This is a Department Of Energy laboratory I believe.

The thing is, I didn't find it on their web site. I found it by doing a search for Social Engineering on this site. I'm sure you'll find it if you do the same. There is some really interesting stuff there.

Notice that they base this all on game theory. I was replying back to a poster yesterday who I believed to be making money off the wars that are ongoing and told him as much. He replied back to me and told me that he makes his money off of gaming but he was in the military as well.


edit on 5-3-2011 by jackflap because: Spelling



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