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Why hasn't the US made a formal apology to the Native Americans?

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posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 


I do really understand your anger. I do, I honestly don't see what can be done to undo the wrong. It is kinda of like saying I take back what I said..Once a word spoken can never be unspoken.. it is always remembered. When I was 10 years old...I refused to salute the American flag at school by not saying ..I pledge allegiance .... got to remembering all the gory tales my great grandmother told.(Creek Indian) I can tell you this..that got me in the worst of troubles with my Mom and My stepfather!!...I don't think the teacher ever liked me after that incident, she nearly shook my head off!!! My best friend backed away also. The kids started calling me Crazy Horse. The rest of the year was just about unbearable. Mom ..said you made your bed lay in it. ..I refused to apologize for what I did. And to this day ..I never did. I told My Mom I would salute the flag.. just to keep peace in the family and at school. ((My step father was absolutely livid and screaming all sort of things at me and calling my Mom's family nuts. He did not respect Indians anyway.)) Mom never talked about Indians anymore after that.
This is a quote from Sitting Bull..that I put inside a big dream catcher I made..it is hanging on my wall.
A Cold Wind blew across the prairie when the last buffalo fell..a Death Wind for my people.
edit on 28-2-2011 by ellieN because: added to




posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by DaddyBare
I know some of you none red folks think it's funny... but you just don't know what it's really like... to be shunned by your on government... a prime example is this case...

70,000 people on the Navajo Nation live without easy access to one of the most basic necessities of life. That’s the same population as Santa Fe with no running water that is safe to drink, safe to wash vegetables with, safe to bathe children in. And they are U.S. citizens.... why no public outpouring? well maybe it's because they are just some dirty dusty Indians and not like real citizens ....

if there is a second class citizen in this country then most of us red folks fall well under that fellow...
Link to a vid on the "Water Haulers"

It's not just here in the US BTW... if you want to learn how Canada treats her Native population go read my current thread about murdered women...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 28-2-2011 by DaddyBare because: (no reason given)

Gunny This is a modern day corporate capitalism. The US govt does their own thing, and there usually isnt a public outpouring for anybody these days bc everybody is so wrapped up in their own affairs. Not to mention the media is too busy pushing their agenda to help spread knowledge.

Im really confused as to why the Natives dont just go somewhere where there is running water, etc like every other race that immigrated here. Or what about those old survival skills? Just act like were not even here. Hunt, provide your own shelter, and find your own drinking water. Anything but staying in those #holes and waiting for govt help. Honostley, Im surprised to see you on this side of the fence. If anybody knows about making something of themselves from nothing its a Marine. Gunnery Sgt at that!

Respectfully



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by TheForgottenOnes
 


Well, I wasn't suggesting it was the BEST appology....or that it was an adequate one. I was just pointing out that it had, indeed been done. Sorry if it came off rudely. Not really my intention...my intention, if anything, was to suggest that sometimes places like 'Yahoo Answers' are not always the best sources of correct info. It wasn't to downplay what happened to the American Indians in any way.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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One more thing…

What the hell makes you think that there is some white man conspiracy against all the minorities? The government doesn’t give a damn about “Anyone”, not just you. What do you think the tea party movement is all about anyway? It’s about everyone taking our government back from the evil corporate billionaires who have swindled all of us, red, black, and white.

You think the “White Guy” is in control in racist conspiracy? Ha Ha Ha, give me a friggen break! It’s the power broker billionaire oil men, bankers, lawyers, and globalist corporate ceo’s that rule the world! White suburban wal-mart worker is just as screwed as everyone else.

You want to point fingers? How about 700 billion in bail outs to banking fraud with not a single banker in jail? They are the ones to blame for the shortfalls in this country ever since the days of standard oil and JP Morgan. But you racist minorities can’t handle the truth! We have all been screwed over for decades by handfuls of billionaire globalist elites, all of us have, not just you.

You want the American government to fix your racist classified problems? Then buy out our senators and presidency like the Chinese have and then they might do what you want too. Our government elitists are all about money, and I don’t have it anymore than you do so, no, they aren’t going to do what you want anymore then they are going to do what I want.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 06:56 PM
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reply to post by superman2012
 

Where on earth did you get the idea we surrendered all of our rights? Nothing could be further from the truth. We've had the devil's own time forcing recognition of them, but cede all rights? Never.


Since when is a longing for freedom or pointing out the true history hate?

I hate no one.

What I hate is injustice.

As regards to land ownership, we define it differently, one of the reasons we want our freedom. The lands I refer to are tribal lands that belong to us by treaty that have been illegally usurped, not every last inch that was stolen, merely that which was stolen after we made a binding treaty, as international law agrees we are entitled to. What's wrong with demanding what belongs to you back?

I have no reservation: the one promised was never given, my tribe received only exile as prisoners of war for 27 years.

But to suggest that to an Indian is the same as telling you to go seek your fortune and opportunity in China.

We want to develop our own economies on and in our own lands: we don't want to be you or like you, and it isn't hate, it is just being different: we aren't you, we are us, different from you.

The name for my people is the Ind'eh, but you know us as the Apache, so I use what you will recognize.

I am fully aware of my potentials and have lived my life more fully and better than most: do not presume to lecture me.

I am a combat veteran, an ex-shrimper, ex-college instructor, ex-professional dancer, worked for years as a construction electrician, fought corrupt union bosses and won. I recruited and commanded my own Civil Air Patrol Squadron as a teenager. I've owned and run businesses and hold copyrights. I've helped arrange international events for Sister Cities. I once ran a concert that over 5,000 people attended. I've lived both in luxury and in a shelter I built in a canyon.

But always as a third class citizen, no matter what my achievements.

I want to live in an Indian land surrounded by Native American people, speaking their own tongue and living in their own ways without any foreigners dictating how, who, what or when. I want to live in the lands of my grandmothers and grandfathers. I want to walk the same lands and to speak the names of the hills and forests and streams from their proper places.

Did you know that Apache placenames are of a couple of different types?

The first type requires a very specific viewpoint. To understand the name means you are standing in the exact same spot where the name was created, because the name describes the view. You stand in the exact spot where your grandfather's grandmother's grandfather stood when he saw it and named it. It binds you to the land and bears the history of your beginnings.

The other sort of name tells the history of what happened there, sometimes big, sometimes trivial, but uniquely memorable, usually imparting a moral.

Look, it's not that we hate you or that I hate you.

It's just that we and I love our freedom more and are frankly tired of having you around bossing us over our shoulders. Really, even if we have a rough start, we'll eventually be strong and prosperous on our own, providing we have the proper land base and we can control our own resources.
edit on 28-2-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by Hot_Wings
 


I take you've never read Sun Tzu?

Nor really studied any warfare much would be my guess.

I want no war with the US or anyone else, but if the US used violence against the tribes, which is what I said the first time, it would be suicidal and I stand by that. I keep telling you we are different and you keep thinking of us as poor copies of you. Only a complete idiot fights to an enemy's strength. You attack their weakness. That is the Apache way: we fought not for honor, glory, or bloodlust but to defend our homes, our families, our culture. You don't throw lives away, and you choose to fight only when you know you can win.

The kind of war it would be wouldn't involve guns or battles, and so you'd lose because you wouldn't comprehend what was happening until far too late. But I'd much rather deal peacably with mutual respect.

Your viewpoint and attitudes would seem to mirror the historical one that the only good Indian was a dead one, the only difference is that you would kill us with culture, although perhaps you might prefer bullets.
edit on 28-2-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by ellieN
 


We can't undo the wrong, but we can recover the future if we try and prevent future wrongs.

If you hold your freedom in your heart, and live as an Indian, holding true to the values and customs of your tribe, no matter the pressure, then we can save the future for a free and independent Indian Nation on this continent. Study your tribe's history and those of your tribe's allies and neighbors, learn the true histories, not just the sugared offical ones.

When my mother died, as the custom of my people dictated, I cut my braids and placed them in her hands and covered her body in pollen.

I'd never thought much about the custom or its purpose. But after I cut my hair I discovered that when you wear your hair in long braids, you tend to stroke it as you think. After you cut it, you come up short on your stroke and remember the one you cut it for.

It is not too late yet.

We will be free!

I'm glad you did what you did, and I'm proud of you for not apologizing



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:27 PM
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This isn't a conspiracy, actually, so I don't know why it's even on this site. Anyways, while I believe there were many wrongs, and Custer (and many more) got what he deserved, the premise is just wrong. I was born here so I'm a native American. I have many Indian friends, and they absolutely HATE being called that. The proper term is American Indian. However, how far back do we go? American Indians were not the first ones here, just as in every country the people/race/culture currently in the majority were not the ones there originally. Are we to give France back to the Visigoths? Hmmm, not a bad idea; at least they had balls and knew how to fight and win.

Lots of lies have been perpetrated pertaining to the early settlers and Pilgrims, such as how Columbus brought diseases to America that killed off many American Indians, but that has proven to be false. Just as the settlers killing off almost all of the Bison is false. Actually, it was the efforts of white people who started breeding Bison to save the species. So, what to do? We shouldn't have to pay anything, just like the reparations wanted by Blacks; we didn't do it, and none of the Blacks alive today were slaves.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by bhornbuckle75
reply to post by TheForgottenOnes
 


Well, I wasn't suggesting it was the BEST appology....or that it was an adequate one. I was just pointing out that it had, indeed been done. Sorry if it came off rudely. Not really my intention...my intention, if anything, was to suggest that sometimes places like 'Yahoo Answers' are not always the best sources of correct info. It wasn't to downplay what happened to the American Indians in any way.
I understand, and thanks for replying back, after doing some looking, other than the apology you posted, which I had seen before posting this thread, I just needed to ask this question, you didn't come off rudely, I appreciate your post



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by Hot_Wings
 


Where have I said white guy?

Always I say Americans, because it was the Americans who fought us, and they were multiethnic.

Whenever blacks have tried to enlist my support in solidarity against a historic common foe, I ask them if they are proud of the record of the 9th US cavalry, the Buffalo Soldiers.

Those recently freed slaves and sons of former slaves worked hard and fought hard to bring my people into slavery. So American to me isn't necessarily a color.

If you want to read "white" for "Americans", that's your particular guilt trip, although I can't really blame you for the error.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by superman2012
 

Where on earth did you get the idea we surrendered all of our rights? Nothing could be further from the truth. We've had the devil's own time forcing recognition of them, but cede all rights? Never.


Since when is a longing for freedom or pointing out the true history hate?

I hate no one.

What I hate is injustice.

As regards to land ownership, we define it differently, one of the reasons we want our freedom. The lands I refer to are tribal lands that belong to us by treaty that have been illegally usurped, not every last inch that was stolen, merely that which was stolen after we made a binding treaty, as international law agrees we are entitled to. What's wrong with demanding what belongs to you back?

I have no reservation: the one promised was never given, my tribe received only exile as prisoners of war for 27 years.

But to suggest that to an Indian is the same as telling you to go seek your fortune and opportunity in China.

We want to develop our own economies on and in our own lands: we don't want to be you or like you, and it isn't hate, it is just being different: we aren't you, we are us, different from you.

The name for my people is the Ind'eh, but you know us as the Apache, so I use what you will recognize.

I am fully aware of my potentials and have lived my life more fully and better than most: do not presume to lecture me.

I am a combat veteran, an ex-shrimper, ex-college instructor, ex-professional dancer, worked for years as a construction electrician, fought corrupt union bosses and won. I recruited and commanded my own Civil Air Patrol Squadron as a teenager. I've owned and run businesses and hold copyrights. I've helped arrange international events for Sister Cities. I once ran a concert that over 5,000 people attended. I've lived both in luxury and in a shelter I built in a canyon.

But always as a third class citizen, no matter what my achievements.

I want to live in an Indian land surrounded by Native American people, speaking their own tongue and living in their own ways without any foreigners dictating how, who, what or when. I want to live in the lands of my grandmothers and grandfathers. I want to walk the same lands and to speak the names of the hills and forests and streams from their proper places.

Did you know that Apache placenames are of a couple of different types?

The first type requires a very specific viewpoint. To understand the name means you are standing in the exact same spot where the name was created, because the name describes the view. You stand in the exact spot where your grandfather's grandmother's grandfather stood when he saw it and named it. It binds you to the land and bears the history of your beginnings.

The other sort of name tells the history of what happened there, sometimes big, sometimes trivial, but uniquely memorable, usually imparting a moral.

Look, it's not that we hate you or that I hate you.

It's just that we and I love our freedom more and are frankly tired of having you around bossing us over our shoulders. Really, even if we have a rough start, we'll eventually be strong and prosperous on our own, providing we have the proper land base and we can control our own resources.
edit on 28-2-2011 by apacheman because: (no reason given)
You are in a true sense of the word, the smartest man who ever has posted on this thread, I give you...no I stand up and applaud you!! My husband, when he went to Australia for the first time, had been asked so many questions, "what are you?" and he always said "I'm Native American and white" and I remember the shock I got when almost every single one of them said, "You're a red-indian? I thought you were all extinct!" seeing the sadness in his eyes, was more than I could ever want to see in a lifetime



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 




...we'll eventually be strong and prosperous on our own, providing we have the proper land base and we can control our own resources.


You've made some great posts apacheman, it's clear you feel this issue in your bones.

I have to say though, I have to agree with some of what the "opposition" is saying in regards to what looks like an "impossible dream".

Your quote above, for example.

Will a "land base" (a "true" nation basically) prove to be the "solution" to Native American problems?

I see others bringing up the Palestinians, and the gypsies. To me, it seems like these could be peoples to look to, if you want to see what kind of a "future" you might enjoy, essentially surrounded by your enemy. And you would not merely be surrounded, you would be infiltrated, and perhaps then even molded into the last thing you would ever want.

Years ago, I was a middle manager at a company that tried to practice minority hiring, and I had a full-blood Native American woman working for me, literally her first job off the reservation. Incredibly intelligent, a woman in her forties, I could give her six things to do, and she would actually remember them all, while a couple of the younger crowd that I had to put up with might barely remember two things, before coming back with their blank stares.

It was she who taught me about the "real" world of the reservation. Her tribe actually enjoyed the benefits of having a prosperous casino (which is where her clerical experience came from). The problem was, the Indians, like everyone else in the world it seems, were utterly corrupt, and she seemed to literally "hate" her own people, at times, when relating her stories.

The way she told it was that the mafia controlled almost all Indian gaming in the US. Yes, Indians got jobs at the casinos, but where was all the money going? She was in a postion to see what was going on, tons of cash, literally piles of green bills, in suit cases, going into limo trunks, limos driven by Italians, and Jewish guys calling the shots (in her opinion, who knows what she saw). She was disgusted of course, since she lived in a horrid little trailer, drove a heap of a car that barely ran, and had never been paid more than a slave wage, even after having worked at the casino for ten years.

Worse than knowing the whole game was a joke on her people, was the knowledge that tribal leaders were in on it. Only a handful of Native Americans were apparently benefiting, in her words, actually only ONE family within her tribe. Imagine. Yes, this is all perhaps "hearsay", but since that time, I had looked into it some, and indeed it does seem like the mafia is in more places than most would care to admit.

Long story, but I'd like to ask, how long do you think some new "sovereign" nation would remain immune to such a massive power structure as organized crime? Some also know that organized crime works together with the big intelligence services of the world, our CIA is deep in the drug business, etc.

I don't see a sovereign NA nation standing anymore of a chance than a Palestinian one. I realize that it is a popular notion, that the Palestinians "should" have their land, etc., but with all the dark forces arrayed against them, even "if" they had a land of their own (by all appearances), who would still be calling the shots somewhere in the background?

I don't find some of the statements Hot_Wings is saying appealing at all, but the point made about how we're all in this "boat" is true to some extent. There is a bigger picture, and perhaps we should find ways to be allies, against a greater foe, one that really doesn't give a damn what color we are, or about our traditions. No, this doesn't mean that Native Americans don't have real issues, and continue to suffer injustice, but so do many others around the world.

Maybe, we've all got bigger problems.

JR



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by TheForgottenOnes
 


My thanks for your respect.

I know that sadness.

When I served in the Air Force in the Far East, many times when I was asked what sort of person I was the person I was talking to would literally jump back away from me when I told them Apache. I figured it was from watching too many westerns.

Then they'd tell me no way: we were all dead.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:02 PM
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JR MacBeth wrote: "... I don't see a sovereign NA nation standing anymore of a chance than a Palestinian one. I realize that it is a popular notion, that the Palestinians "should" have their land."

REPLY: There is no Palestinian land. There is no occupied land. Who taught you that? The Arabs started three wars against Israel, and lost all three so they are conquered lands.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by zappafan1
JR MacBeth wrote: "... I don't see a sovereign NA nation standing anymore of a chance than a Palestinian one. I realize that it is a popular notion, that the Palestinians "should" have their land."

REPLY: There is no Palestinian land. There is no occupied land. Who taught you that? The Arabs started three wars against Israel, and lost all three so they are conquered lands.


I wouldn't want to derail the thread with all that, I was just bringing up a popular notion (right or wrong), based more or less on the idea that the Palestinians are being treated unjustly, and that somehow giving them a state, would be a "solution" to their problems. People could argue either side, but my real point is a sovereign nation must operate in context, and sometimes that makes such a thing impossible (again, right or wrong).

I'm guessing you would agree that giving the Palestinians a state might be a problem for a lot of reasons, and I'm pretty sure the Israelis would mostly agree.

JR



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by JR MacBeth
 


I believe her, I've seen some reservations run by one family, but you have to understand they can't and don't do it alone: the BIA and other government agencies (MMS and BLM) frequently interfere with tribal politics to control contracts.

In an independent nation, they wouldn't last.

Not all casinos are controlled by the mafia: I know of one event where some such types attempted to strong-arm the tribe. They were buried deep and remote, and so was the follow-up crew. That one is still free as far as I know.

My best candidate for freedom is the Navaho Nation, followed by a union of southwestern tribes. Of course, the US would lose most of Nevada, Arizona, and New Mexico, but they don't really own that much of them anyway: most of those lands are federal trust lands, held in trust for Indians.

I guess for all their talk, Americans don't comprehend what freedom is and how dear it is: I'd rather live as full citizen in a third-world free Indian Nation than as a third or fourth-class citizen the US, which is fast turning into a third-world craphole anyway.

Thing is, I don't think it would be that bad, we are different, have I mentioned that? We don't do things the same way and value things differently, so we will have different results from the same starting point. For one thing, we tend to value cooperation over competition and conflict. That's a huge difference. In time our old ways will reassert themselves, adapted to new times. That's what vibrant cultures do.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by Vash



So no, we've never got an apology (obviously we deserve it), and we don't ask for reparations. What I know many want is just for the Americans to one day say "yep, we commit ed a genocide, we ****** up, we're sorry" but I doubt it will ever come.


So let me get this straight? you want a Apology? Right? From who? Are we going to Raise the Dead so the people Who did these things can say there sorry?

Ever heard of continuation of governance? Willy Brandt, then Chancellor of Western Germany apologized to the Polish people for the atrocities committed by the Nazis. No, we cannot raise people from the dead and make them apologize. They would not anyways, because in their mind it was all right, 'cause the Native Americans were savages to them. But the US government sure can apologize to the Native American Nations; and I definitely think they should. Go Obama, apologize and may be you get a chance at another 4 years in power.


Another example, I would like to mention is Mike Doukakis apologized to the families of Sacco and Vanzetti and cleared their names of the crime they were convicted and executed for. So, no it is not unheard of that politicians and/or governments apologize for the crimes and the sins of their forefathers, especially when those include genocide. Do you get it now or would you like me to elaborate some more?



Originally posted by VashHow many Years and years ago did this Horrible mind numbing event happen? Wait thats right i was not alive and neither where my parents or any one i know or have ever spoken to .. So why would any one ever say there sorry for something they never did?

Oh, about 200-400 years, give or take some. It does not matter anyways. You are right that you personally nor your parents and family nor anyone alive today was responsible for those horrible crimes - and make no mistake, genocide is the worst crime there is. However, that does not mean that the US government does not need to apologize.

Originally posted by VashThe sins of the Father Etc etc you know the Saying.

Yes, it's a silly saying based on bible verse. And your point is?


Originally posted by VashBesides most Indian casino's make more money then i have ever dreamed about having and instead of Bettering there Reservations where they don't pay tax's or have to deal with the US government in there butts about everything.. What do they do with it? How about right here in Oregon.

Right, however, casinos are a recent development and about the only income for many tribes. None of your business what they do with their hard earned cash. Did I ask you how much you earn and what you do with your hard earned cash?


Originally posted by VashA friend of mine who is native american works at a casino in Oregon .. He got fired.. And the casino paid him 3 grand a month for a YEAR .. WHY!! WTF when i quit a job i don't get paid 3 grand a month for a year so everything will be Peachy damn keen! Hell How many Jobs pay 3grand a month for doing nothing but sit on your ass ?.

None, of your business why. It's a business in a capitalist market; they cannot do whatever they want with their money. Regarding your last question, I know of at least one: pensioner, that's what I am. Also, helps if your born rich ... tough luck there. I don't sweat it though; I earn minimum pension, but I am happy with little money. "Money can't buy you ... love" for example, to quote my favorite band.

Originally posted by VashIN the end they will Never get a apology because frankly Its in the past its forgotten its Done and over with No amount of complaing bitching Whining or demanding something be done will ever happen..
Its just how the world is.

I think there is a saying also that goes something like this: People who do not learn from the mistakes of their past are doomed to repeat them. In essence, history repeats itself, if we, the people, do not learn from the mistakes our forefathers made. And forgotten, no, you wish this was forgotten. Ask a Lakota, if he has forgotten Wounded Knee or ask a Cheyenne if he/she has forgotten the Sand Creek massacre. Why do you think Custer and his men were wiped out, none left standing alive and the dead brutally desecrated? The answer is - among other atrocities - the Sand Creek massacre.

Originally posted by Vash
And honestly Worse things in history have happened Take for instance The nuking of japan. Or how many wars did the native tribes of the past wage on other tribes? where murder and War where common place..

You are right about the nuking of Japan; I think we are still waiting for an apology in that case, too. About the wars of native tribes against each other, to the best of my knowledge there was never genocide involved - at least not in tribes of Northern America (the Aztecs are a different story all together). Again, to the best of my knowledge war was inevitable for most tribes in Northern America, but it was fought according to rules, never was genocide committed, and prisoners of war were treated harsh, but after a while they were either given the choice to integrate into the tribe or to return to their own tribe. No, you cannot compare the territorial wars of the Native American tribes to genocide; it's not even apples and oranges.

I don't know what your problem with Native Americans is, but you remind me of something a Native American wrote in a book. He reports talking to a white American about this very same topic and the white American asked him: "that's all fine and dandy, but what did you do with the land when it was yours and before we stole it from you? Nothing, you left it to lay bare, did not cultivate it enough and generally and frankly speaking you just were in the way of progress" something along those lines, no actual direct quote. So, the Native American thought a while about this and then commented: "And what did you do with the land?" Raped and pillaged that's what the white supremacists of that time did and still do today. And then he remembers some river with a Native American name that was polluted so much that it became inflammable (true story that river burned for a while after someone dropped a cigarette butt in it). "Indeed," he said, "no Native American would have come up with the idea to create an inflammable river.



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by apacheman
 




I'd rather live as full citizen in a third-world free Indian Nation than as a third or fourth-class citizen the US, which is fast turning into a third-world craphole anyway.

Thing is, I don't think it would be that bad, we are different, have I mentioned that? We don't do things the same way and value things differently, so we will have different results from the same starting point. For one thing, we tend to value cooperation over competition and conflict. That's a huge difference. In time our old ways will reassert themselves, adapted to new times. That's what vibrant cultures do.


Yeah, you're absolutely right about the country going down hill. I think that the American future won't be all that different than the British one. They had their empire, we supposedly have ours, and in the not-too-distant future, the more fortunate among us will barely live as well as the Brits, who really are more of a "second-world" nation, in many ways. The US, sponging off the entire world, through oil-linked USD hegemony, is no recipe for a "sustainable" future.

I hope you're right about your people being "different", but from where I stand, people are ever the same, and I don't really mean that in a good way. Going back thousands of years, we all seem to have the same problems. We are very corruptible, we may know the right thing to do, but we more often choose the wrong. Some religionists chalk it up to our "fallen natures", but whatever you call it, people aren't that noble, regardless of ethnic extraction.

Can Native American cultures adapt to new times? I certainly would like to think so. I think some will do better than others. Perhaps, as you point out, the large Navajo would do well, but would they? Stuck between the US, and Mexico, how would such a thing play out, if they somehow made an independent nation in that region? Maybe, under the right circumstances, it could work, but I think, with the whole world marching to a global "culture", and eventually a global "One World" government, such a thing has probably passed probability, sad to say.

I'm not sure how many used to watch the old Star Trek spin-off, the one with the female captain, but her first officer was a Native American by the name of Chikotee (sp?). Yes, it was a while back, but interestingly, even in the sci-fi imaginary world, the Native Americans literally had to go to another planet, to finally get their "freedom"! Sort of a stark statement, perhaps the actor who played in that role was involved in that formulation, I don't know, but it underscores a "hopelessness", and yet, paradoxically, an enduring hope that somehow the old dreams might come true.

I wish I still had some idealism like that. I guess I'm getting old, because I'm not that hopeful for humanity in general.

Well, what ever happens, in the meantime, the preservation of culture is probably where you might get the most bang for the buck, in my opinion. I'll mention another people, the Irish, who have succeeded in doing just that. When I was there, I was actually surprised to go into a small town, and when school let out, the school kids came around the shops, and I heard them speaking...Gaelic! No one told me! I had no idea that they had done this, but one of the shop clerks explained that they had put Gaelic back in the schools some years before, and now all the children spoke it fluently! Their language had been almost forgotten, replaced literally by the language of their oppressors, and yet, at the very brink of losing it all, they came roaring back.

I guess anything is possible.

JR



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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I got just a few comments to make, more like repeating some things

1. Native genocide happened 30 and 40 years ago, I'm sure your parents were alive back then, stop saying that just because things happened 200-400 years ago, doesn't mean it didn't happen as recently as 30 years ago, forced sterilization of female Natives, rough estimates are 25-48% of all native women were sterilized, that is genocide in its own respect, the American government just killed bloodlines, people, children, maybe Presidents and future leaders were destroyed with the flick of a scalpel

2. Who cares if the Natives were killing settlers? it was self defense, if some foreign country came in, made treatys with the US and repeatedly broke them, took you out of your homes, raped, murdered, and tortured you, your mom, wife, kids, aunts and uncles, wouldn't you get fed up? and start fighting back?

3. I can't wait for someone bigger and badder than the US to come along and treat you like savages, then maybe, 400 years later, they will be having this discussion on wether or not they should apologize to the New Native Americans ie: all of todays people, for genocide



posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by TheForgottenOnes
 

There are a couple of reasons why, if you get a formal apology, it will be meaningless.
1. The people who treated the "Native Americans" poorly, and who should apologize, are long gone.
2. The "rights" issues are because the tribes were considered "Indian Nations" and therefore not part of the United States. You can't be not subject to the United States and vote, etc.

p.s. I am offended by the term "Native American". I was born in Chicago and 13 generations of my ancestors were born here. I certainly am a native American!



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