Why hasn't the US made a formal apology to the Native Americans?

reply to post by superman2012

No disrespect intended but, there is nothing stopping you or your people to get back to your roots and traditions.

I think this isn't an atypical attitude when it comes to this issue. It sort of seems to make sense, that somehow, these people should be able to "get back to their roots", you know, why not?

WELL, frankly, there's a lot wrong with that attitude in my opinion. There really are too many particular instances to tackle here. I guess most know that the Native peoples who chased buffalo can't exactly reclaim that world that was lost. But what about some others?

How about the Nez Perce, originally from Oregon? This is a tribe that is a bit closer to me geographically, so I happen to know a bit more about them.

These were a rather peaceful people, so much so that they voluntarily ceded much of their land to the US to secure their much-valued peace. But in 1877, a General Howard, US Cavalry showed up with an eviction notice nonetheless. The Nez Perce had 30 days to remove themselves, and all their belongings, to the Lapwai Reservation in Idaho. No choice, and no one cared about the agreement before.

Chief Joseph, to his credit, realized there was no point in fighting, they would somehow move. A bit of background. The Nez Perce were the world's greatest horsemen, practicing advanced animal husbandry for centuries, breeding the world-famous Appaloosa breed of horse, the most intelligent ever, by many estimates.

An immense tragedy: They would have to leave their precious horses, there would be no way they could move them to the new location so quickly (which wasn't suited for this noble breed anyway).

And so the Nez Perce took what they could, and began the long journey. Along the way, there were skirmishes with white settlers, and next thing you know, the Cavalry was officially after the tribe, a mission to apprehend, and either destroy, or take into custody.

Many don't know this, but the Canadian authorities had offered refuge (just as they had to Sitting Bull), as long as the tribe could somehow make it to Canada.

Chief Joseph was forced to make that difficult decision, to make a run for Canada, in spite of his goodwill attempt to simply get to the Idaho reservation, as ordered. But once whites were killed, due to the unfortunate circumstances, those incidental confrontations, the game changed. The only way he could preserve his people was to somehow escape the Cavalry.

For 1,800 miles, they marched non-stop, praying to get to that border. But sadly, only 50 miles from sanctuary, they mistakenly judged that they had already made it to Canada, and decided to finally rest, and they made camp. Many were sick, and wounded, perhaps anyone would have done the same, after so much hardship.

Unfortunately, the Cavalry had apprehended them at that point, and hundreds died trying to escape death. The survivors were rounded up, and marched to Leavenworth, Kansas, and then on to the Oklahoma Reservation (some say, it was always the true destination). There, many would die of disease, and starvation.

After many years of petitioning Washington, in 1885, Chief Joseph and a few survivors were allowed to go back West. No, not to the ancestral lush valleys of Oregon, but instead to a desolate reservation in Washington State, the Colville. There, Joseph died, broken hearted, a man who bore a Christian name, who had attended Spaulding's missionary school, a man who had addressed General Howard as "brother", and yet, was almost exterminated, treated worse than an animal.

Today, all that is left of the Nez Perce, beyond the confusion of the pathetic modern reservation, is a genetic wonder, the living legacy to their genius, the Appaloosa. One of the most intelligent and desirable horses ever created by man.

ONLY an apology? Perhaps a declaration of humble gratitude might be considered in order as well, someday.

JR

reply to post by apacheman

Apacheman, thank you for your posts. You are well informed, well spoken, and you document very clearly many wrongs, many atrocities, and many nightmares.

I'm only part Cherokee, but my heart is more Cherokee than my blood could prove. I only ask that when you encounter white men, that you judge not the skin, hair or eye color, but the heart.

And by the way. I wrote in my book that the Apache was the greatest guerrilla fighter who ever walked the earth, either mounted or on foot.

My respect, sir.

Here in CA, there are so many indian casinos...the biggest on in my area, cache creek, has a HUGE gaming floor with minimum BJ tables of 25 dollars, constantly packed. I've heard they have over 100 billion dollars in their vault, and that they the total monetary flow in and out of the casino each year is over a trillion dollars. This is from a senior accountant who happens to be a close family friend. Obviously this isn't typical of a Indian casino, but this one is the main service for the bay area and asians love to gamble...

If that isn't damn repayment I have no idea what is, the Cache Indians have as little as 100 living blood members....YOU do the math on that one folks. Yeah, each one is technically a damn billionaire.


However, most live in complete poverty, and what we did to the indians is truly on the level of the most brutal treatment of human beings in history. We didn't treat them as human beings, we treated them as animals. One more ugly event in America's history, but what can you expect we grew from the British Crown, the most disgusting piece of trash that has ever infested the earth.

With all of the opportunities that many of the Native Americans are afforded, how much more is required till they help themselves? Many of the individual languages of the different tribes are in danger of dieing off, as they are not taught to their children, many of the different traditions of the smaller tribes are slowly dieing off like the languages, so they are not helping themselves, or choosing to make things better for themselves. Many who have casinos, do not share the wealth with the other tribes, and having lived in Arizona, many of the old prejudices that the tribes have for one another was very apparent with the other. Yes they are a proud people, but here is the question, if you know something is bad for you or a group, why do such and bemoan the condition that you put yourself into? There is nothing to stop the Native American tribes from bettering themselves, nothing that prohibits them from keeping what rituals and culture they have, to include teaching their children their own tribal language and customs. We can not force Native Americans to stay on the reservations, and they have more opportunities these days to excel than many, so what more is needed? A formal apology is given, benefits are also given, far better than the people who do not live on a reservation. It is time to let the past remain in the past, and to move forward.

Many millions ran south of the border. Those who stayed were lucky to survive. Tell em yourself the next time you see an illegal/Native American walking down the street.

reply to post by Shamatt


Why would we apologize? We haven't done anything no one in this generation was back then so why apologize about somethin that is out of reach...we dont have to answer for those crimes whoever commited them do...so why dont u do what other people on this thread said to do...GET OVER IT

I wish I wasnt a god damn white man. Native Americans dont pay taxes and they get government checks every month. Its really lame.

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
I'll keep this short and sweet (it's my first thread made)
au.answers.yahoo.com... this is the best quote i could find to answer this...sorry its a yahoo answer

Ahem, what's wrong with yahoo answer as a source?

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
It wasn't till after WW1 when we were "considered" citizens. It wasn't till after WW2 when we had voting rights, in the 1960's and 70's they sterilized 25% of ALL native american women between the ages of 15 to 40. And before the 1970's it was illegal to practice our ceremonies, and speak our languages.

Yep, that about sums it up. Maybe you forgot the Wounded Knee occupation and uprising?

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
So no, we've never got an apology (obviously we deserve it), and we don't ask for reparations. What I know many want is just for the Americans to one day say "yep, we commit ed a genocide, we ****** up, we're sorry" but I doubt it will ever come.

You know, the "apologies of America" comes to mind and also this:

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
Coarse American sttitude towards us still hasn't changed much. As you can see, some obviously think that their ways are better, and that we should just drop everything and "assimilate". Well, no; I'm sorry but I like where I am, and if you don't like that then **** off. Simply put. Besides, I've already lived in other parts of the country, so I've seen enough.

Right, I am with you, although "assimilation" within reasonable limits is acceptable to me. Let me explain: I grew up in a foreign country and I had to assimilate to that country and it's culture and all that. Yes, I almost lost my initial cultural identity, but I gained so much more. I am multicultural and proud of it and yes, I am living proof that multiculturalism works, despite what conservative politicians in Europe want to make us believe.

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
I have heard of apologies in the works but have yet to hear something definate

Hopefully, the mods that be will forgive me another shameless video plug, which hopefully will work with bbcode and all that:
Well, America a "mea culpa" (Latin for apologies) is in order, I think. Hopefully, I will see it in my time. I am not very optimistic about it, but as they say here "hope dies last".

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
what could be further from the truth?

...not sure what you meant by that... are you saying that white australians did not commit genocide against the aboriginals?... surely thats not what you were referring to...

...are you saying that the premise of your op is not false?... its been proven false several times (which proves you did not research your topic), so surely thats not the case either...

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
I know the truths through the ones that have experianced it

...no... you know the truths of those you've met who have shared their truths with you - but - their experiences / opinions do not apply to all ndns...

...just like with all large groupings of people, ndns are very diverse... even among one small tribe, there would be differing opinions / reactions to your op...

...concerning your statement which i replied to previously - let me clarify... you made a generalization about all ndns and thats automatically false... however, your statement was false anyway because there are people all over the world (including white folks) who are in tune with Earth and nature and who would be devastated if the homelands of their ancestors were taken from them...

...do you understand now?... hope so...

Originally posted by JR MacBeth
reply to post by superman2012

 

No disrespect intended but, there is nothing stopping you or your people to get back to your roots and traditions.

I think this isn't an atypical attitude when it comes to this issue. It sort of seems to make sense, that somehow, these people should be able to "get back to their roots", you know, why not?

WELL, frankly, there's a lot wrong with that attitude in my opinion. There really are too many particular instances to tackle here. I guess most know that the Native peoples who chased buffalo can't exactly reclaim that world that was lost. But what about some others?

How about the Nez Perce, originally from Oregon? This is a tribe that is a bit closer to me geographically, so I happen to know a bit more about them.

These were a rather peaceful people, so much so that they voluntarily ceded much of their land to the US to secure their much-valued peace. But in 1877, a General Howard, US Cavalry showed up with an eviction notice nonetheless. The Nez Perce had 30 days to remove themselves, and all their belongings, to the Lapwai Reservation in Idaho. No choice, and no one cared about the agreement before.

Chief Joseph, to his credit, realized there was no point in fighting, they would somehow move. A bit of background. The Nez Perce were the world's greatest horsemen, practicing advanced animal husbandry for centuries, breeding the world-famous Appaloosa breed of horse, the most intelligent ever, by many estimates.

An immense tragedy: They would have to leave their precious horses, there would be no way they could move them to the new location so quickly (which wasn't suited for this noble breed anyway).

And so the Nez Perce took what they could, and began the long journey. Along the way, there were skirmishes with white settlers, and next thing you know, the Cavalry was officially after the tribe, a mission to apprehend, and either destroy, or take into custody.

Many don't know this, but the Canadian authorities had offered refuge (just as they had to Sitting Bull), as long as the tribe could somehow make it to Canada.

Chief Joseph was forced to make that difficult decision, to make a run for Canada, in spite of his goodwill attempt to simply get to the Idaho reservation, as ordered. But once whites were killed, due to the unfortunate circumstances, those incidental confrontations, the game changed. The only way he could preserve his people was to somehow escape the Cavalry.

For 1,800 miles, they marched non-stop, praying to get to that border. But sadly, only 50 miles from sanctuary, they mistakenly judged that they had already made it to Canada, and decided to finally rest, and they made camp. Many were sick, and wounded, perhaps anyone would have done the same, after so much hardship.

Unfortunately, the Cavalry had apprehended them at that point, and hundreds died trying to escape death. The survivors were rounded up, and marched to Leavenworth, Kansas, and then on to the Oklahoma Reservation (some say, it was always the true destination). There, many would die of disease, and starvation.

After many years of petitioning Washington, in 1885, Chief Joseph and a few survivors were allowed to go back West. No, not to the ancestral lush valleys of Oregon, but instead to a desolate reservation in Washington State, the Colville. There, Joseph died, broken hearted, a man who bore a Christian name, who had attended Spaulding's missionary school, a man who had addressed General Howard as "brother", and yet, was almost exterminated, treated worse than an animal.

Today, all that is left of the Nez Perce, beyond the confusion of the pathetic modern reservation, is a genetic wonder, the living legacy to their genius, the Appaloosa. One of the most intelligent and desirable horses ever created by man.

ONLY an apology? Perhaps a declaration of humble gratitude might be considered in order as well, someday.

JR

Sorry, I should have made myself more clear. By getting back to their roots and traditions I wasn't suggesting time travel. I was only trying to make a case for getting back to the core family values that every culture has. I don't care about horses and their grand tradition...only people getting back on track. Clear now?

ps- I am Canadian so your welcome for offering asylum

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
what could be further from the truth?

...not sure what you meant by that... are you saying that white australians did not commit genocide against the aboriginals?... surely thats not what you were referring to...

Interesting, though slightly off-topic. Of course, genocide happened in Australia, too, in early 1900s it happend in Turkey, too. But let's get back to Native Americans.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...are you saying that the premise of your op is not false?... its been proven false several times (which proves you did not research your topic), so surely thats not the case either...

Does not surprise me at all, if indeed that's the case here.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
I know the truths through the ones that have experianced it

Pontius Pilate: What is truth? Had Jesus stumped I think ... And yes, truth is mostly individual and subjective and rarely pure and objective.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...no... you know the truths of those you've met who have shared their truths with you - but - their experiences / opinions do not apply to all ndns...

Exactly, though I prefer to call them Native Americans, because they sure are not Indians, 'cause those live in India.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...just like with all large groupings of people, ndns are very diverse... even among one small tribe, there would be differing opinions / reactions to your op...

Definitely, and see above, too.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...concerning your statement which i replied to previously - let me clarify... you made a generalization about all ndns and thats automatically false... however, your statement was false anyway because there are people all over the world (including white folks) who are in tune with Earth and nature and who would be devastated if the homelands of their ancestors were taken from them...

...do you understand now?... hope so...

Right, generalizations are mostly false, especially when it involves people. Good point about the white people all around the world. I am one of them. Yeah, I hope too, that TheForgottenOnes understands now.

As soon as anyone in a position of authority apologized, there would be lawsuits. Even if most Native Americans didnt want reparations, a few would. That would lead to class action lawsuits which would cost way too much money.

Originally posted by croweboy
As soon as anyone in a position of authority apologized, there would be lawsuits. Even if most Native Americans didnt want reparations, a few would. That would lead to class action lawsuits which would cost way too much money.

I don't believe that the majority would file a lawsuit. Would you rather eat a chicken once or it's eggs indefinitely?

Originally posted by WalterRatlos
I prefer to call them Native Americans, because they sure are not Indians, 'cause those live in India.

...well, thats you, walter...

...ndn = indigenous or indios... has nothing to do with india... my father wouldve chewed your butt out for calling him a native american... his mother was ndn... her parents were ndn and on and on... we like that term... we dont care what it means to you...

...did you know there was a HUGE debate back when the government decided we needed a nicer name than american indian?... some ndns approved of the native american term... some didnt... some didnt care either way... my father said it was another bs trap cuz anyone born here is a native american but not all native americans are ndns... he was right but that happened occasionally, lol...

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


what am I wrong about? I would sure love to know, thanks

reply to post by TheForgottenOnes


Thats human nature in general, every country has gone through some major crap, every leader that's taken out and replaced will eventually have some greedy power hungry bastard that ruins democracy. Democracy only lasts 200 years and America is up, actually we have been up for quite some time now. We need a new terrorist to make things right again like I don't know George Washington.

So no, we've never got an apology (obviously we deserve it), and we don't ask for reparations. What I know many want is just for the Americans to one day say "yep, we commit ed a genocide, we ****** up, we're sorry" but I doubt it will ever come.

So let me get this straight? you want a Apology? Right? From who? Are we going to Raise the Dead so the people Who did these things can say there sorry?

How many Years and years ago did this Horrible mind numbing event happen? Wait thats right i was not alive and neither where my parents or any one i know or have ever spoken to .. So why would any one ever say there sorry for something they never did?

The sins of the Father Etc etc you know the Saying.

Besides most Indian casino's make more money then i have ever dreamed about having and instead of Bettering there Reservations where they don't pay tax's or have to deal with the US government in there butts about everything.. What do they do with it? How about right here in Oregon.

A friend of mine who is native american works at a casino in Oregon .. He got fired.. And the casino paid him 3 grand a month for a YEAR .. WHY!! WTF when i quit a job i don't get paid 3 grand a month for a year so everything will be Peachy damn keen! Hell How many Jobs pay 3grand a month for doing nothing but sit on your ass ?.

IN the end they will Never get a apology because frankly Its in the past its forgotten its Done and over with No amount of complaing bitching Whining or demanding something be done will ever happen..

Its just how the world is.

And honestly Worse things in history have happened Take for instance The nuking of japan. Or how many wars did the native tribes of the past wage on other tribes? where murder and War where common place..

reply to post by apacheman



That was one of the best posts I have ever read. My children are half Oneida,and other various mixed decent. I had my oldest read your post,to understand what it means to be Native American,and to lose your heritage.My children's grandfather often talks to them about what it means to be part of a tribe,and growing up on a reservation. I have a new found respect for you. It is sad on what little rights are left for Native Americans,ALL the tribes,and what has been done. No amount of "Apology" can bring back what has been lost. Again,great post.........

Originally posted by Vash

So no, we've never got an apology (obviously we deserve it), and we don't ask for reparations. What I know many want is just for the Americans to one day say "yep, we commit ed a genocide, we ****** up, we're sorry" but I doubt it will ever come.

So let me get this straight? you want a Apology? Right? From who? Are we going to Raise the Dead so the people Who did these things can say there sorry?

How many Years and years ago did this Horrible mind numbing event happen? Wait thats right i was not alive and neither where my parents or any one i know or have ever spoken to .. So why would any one ever say there sorry for something they never did?

The sins of the Father Etc etc you know the Saying.

Besides most Indian casino's make more money then i have ever dreamed about having and instead of Bettering there Reservations where they don't pay tax's or have to deal with the US government in there butts about everything.. What do they do with it? How about right here in Oregon.

A friend of mine who is native american works at a casino in Oregon .. He got fired.. And the casino paid him 3 grand a month for a YEAR .. WHY!! WTF when i quit a job i don't get paid 3 grand a month for a year so everything will be Peachy damn keen! Hell How many Jobs pay 3grand a month for doing nothing but sit on your ass ?.

IN the end they will Never get a apology because frankly Its in the past its forgotten its Done and over with No amount of complaing bitching Whining or demanding something be done will ever happen..

Its just how the world is.

And honestly Worse things in history have happened Take for instance The nuking of japan. Or how many wars did the native tribes of the past wage on other tribes? where murder and War where common place..

edit on 27-2-2011 by Vash because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-2-2011 by Vash because: quote problems! GRRR

All I've been trying to say is these things happened 40 years ago, I'm sure your parents were alive back then, it is estimated that 42% of Native American women were involuntarily sterilized, without their knowledge... is that right? when they were worried about the blacks down south getting equal treatment, they were also thinking about how to kill the Natives off, that in my books, wether technically it is or not, is genocide even in the 70's they were trying to kill a race of people, and they have almost succeeded. physically, no, but mentally, yeah, Natives are gone

reply to post by TheForgottenOnes


yeah we messed with them pretty damn bad and even worse then them not complaining they helped us win ww2 by having one of the only Unbreakable codes at the time thanks to the nice Navajo code talkers some of the most decorated vets in the pac theater that werent white were indian but as for an apology i think that was attempted with the tax free stuff and the casinos not saying tis right but i think thats what we considred an apology at the time?