How the evolutionists will win.

As much as I am enjoying this discussion, I have to ask if we have drifted off topic.?

reply to post by six67seven


I'm sorry, but I don't normally engage in this sort of childish behavior, but I have to ask you some things in large text:

Have you ever bothered to read a book by Darwin or Huxley? Have you ever bothered to read ANY single piece of literature about evolution? Hell, do you even know what evolution is? (Hint, you can look in my signature, I decided to put a definition for people spreading this sort of moronic disinformation). You, and others like you, who make such ignorant and/or dishonest accusations about the theory of evolution are part of the reason why scientific progress is inhibited in the USA and other western nations.

Evolution is the change in allele frequency over time. It is descriptive, not prescriptive. Evolution doesn't have a preferred course. Evolution doesn't have an end goal. Evolution merely works towards survival. Survival of the fittest is dependent not on an objective metric of fitness, but upon many variables. It's why the 'fittest' walruses are blubbery and the 'fittest' cheetahs are sleek, two entirely different situation. What's the 'fittest' person for modern society? Well, which nation, which culture? Honestly, the idea that you could apply evolution and end up with genocidal ideas is insane.

The ideas of eugenics and selective breeding predate evolutionary theory. Hell, selective breeding was around before the written word in husbandry and agriculture.

You? You're someone who doesn't understand science. You're someone who wants to throw the label of legitimate science onto something horrific. Hell, I don't even care if these guys exist or not, it's not the factor here. Evolution is science. It is beneficial to our understanding of the world and we can actually apply it in various ways to save lives.

Please, read a basic first year college text book on the subject.

As there seems to be a an incredible lack of knowledge when it comes to the theory of evolution...watch this:

Evolution

It's a playlist and explains pretty much everything you need to know. It also makes abundantly clear why the OP is hogwash.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
I'm not aware of anyone claiming they're god.

I do.
I claim that you're god too.

reply to post by six67seven

Consider the elitists.

Let’s define this so we’re all talking about the same thing. Wiktionary gives the definition as:

Someone who believes in rule by an elite group.

This is functionally similar to definitions found via dictionary.com, but not incredibly descriptive. Wikipedia, naturally, expands on this a bit:

Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals, who form an elite — a select group of people with intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight or those who view their own views as so; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.

I would posit that elitists exist in nearly every demographic – people, in general, believe that they would be best ruled by like-minded individuals.

I think the consensus is that the elitists are atheists and/or evolutionists.

And whose consensus would this be? Was there a poll taken? Or is this just your personal opinion? Also, why are you conflating atheism and being a proponent of evolution? Once you get outside of the United States and Turkey, a majority of the populations of developed nations both subscribe to the theory of evolution and are theists. Also, there’s no such thing as an evolutionist. It’s as silly and bigoted as calling someone who subscribes to the theory of gravity a “gravitationist”.

Consider the power that Stalin, Hitler and Tse-Tung had over their respective nations and people.

Interesting that you would pick these three examples, as they were covered fairly recently in a thread in the O&C forum. Stalin, while an atheist, was not a proponent of evolution. He was ultimately a follower of Lamarck’s theories, which had been roundly rejected by biologists. Hitler, while he did pervert the theory of evolution to further his agenda, was not an atheist. He was a Christian and generally followed the later anti-semitic writings of Martin Luther. And I would liken Mao to Hitler – while he may have used a perversion of the theory of evolution to further his agenda, he wrote about God quite a bit in his poetry.

They all were fans of Darwin and Huxley and in love with eugenics, evolution and control.

Obviously not all fans of Darwin, given Stalin’s following of Lysenko and Lamarck. Eugenic is, at best, politics masquerading as pseudoscience. And, given that you’ve chosen three totalitarian dictators, love of control is a given. They also all liked uniforms, but that doesn’t make uniforms an inherently bad thing.

Those people are gone but their ideas remain. Their supporters/followers were suppressed and dispersed when they were defeated but they only went into hiding, found protection, and kept silent to avoid persecution - their ideas never left them. We can see them today all over America. They have infiltrated yet another nation. A Christian nation full of vulnerable people whom were just enjoying their freedoms.

There were Nazi-sympathizers in the United States before World War II even started. There were Stalinists in the United States while Stalin was still in power. There were Maoists in the United States while Mao was still in power. This is a function of the United States being a free country. While the United States may have been founded by men who were theists, the words God and Christ are mysteriously absent from our Constitution, so calling it a “Christian nation” is contentious at best.

Now look at the elitists in the news today and that are the topic of many a thread here on ATS. The Rothchilds, Rockefellars, Morgan family, Bush family, Soros, Kissinger. The entire Bilderberg group. Understand that a person's belief system will determine their behavior. It is my opinion the elitists that claim a religion only do as a front, so not to lose their followers/people whom look to them for leadership, when in reality they are easily being controlled. I believe the elitists, or a majority, are evolutionists at their core. If they truly were people of traditional faith, how can they justify the world in which they live and will soon leave behind?

In answer to your question, look to the actions of the second Bush – he believed he was being guided by God and Christ and, therefore, that his actions were infallible. Perversions of faith have been used to further political agendas just as much as perversions of the theory of evolution.

The NWO is founded in evolution. Their beliefs allow them to promote the idea of eradicating 95% of the world's population - leaving 500,000,000 people as the Georgia Guidestones state along with the known eugenicists within the NWO and American elitists like Ted Turner and Bill Gates. No one founded in religion would think of such an idea, although I believe evolution can be considered a religion, but that is besides the point.

You could make the same argument that a group of people who truly believed they were the chosen of God and that the rest of the world’s population were, at best, heathens, blasphemers, and idolaters would have little problem eradicating them. God did it with Noah, so why couldn’t they reason that they’re just carrying out the will of God by doing it themselves?

Communism and Nazism are both rooted in evolution, are part of the NWO and have crept their way into America, our schools/universities, politics and culture without much resistance.

You claim to love a free United States, yet you don’t seem to be in favor of the introduction of new ideas. Do you want to regulate which ideas can be discussed in order to “protect” the United States?

If America falls (eaten by Communism, fascism, a combination or whatever) and the NWO succeeds, then their beliefs will be forced upon the people. Many will die. America is still the only Christian nation in a position of great power. They know America must lose her sovereignty. If so, Christianity will be eliminated probably along with the religions of the Middle East, as we see the fracturing of nations there. The elite will take over in the chaos much easier and faster than if infiltrating the system over decades. Sure America and other parts of the world will have small pockets of Christians I would think, but with the technology today, I find it to believe that any organization against the machine will succeed. I believe if the elitists take over, then the evolutionists win. The winners write the history books. Evolution will become the major religion of the world in a few generations with the elite pushing their agenda and traditional religious groups being killed or held in camps til death.

By your list of the elite earlier in this post, the United States fell to the NWO a long time ago. I suggest you do a little more reading regarding what communism and fascism really are. They’ve become popular buzzwords in our very partisan and contentious political system, and you seem to be throwing them around without really thinking through what they involve. Yes, there’s civil unrest in the Middle Easy, but you can hardly make the case that this is weakening Islam as a whole. The power structure may shift between different Islamic sects, but this is no different from people from different sects of Christianity being elected in the United States.

I feel evolutionists may applaud their belief system taking over but they should realize it will only be by force. They should also realize that this does not prove evolution once and for all. They should realize that it will not prove the elite are more evolved than anyone else, only that they believe themselves to be. That is my theory of evolution.

Evolution isn’t a belief system. It’s an observable fact and a scientific theory. It doesn’t need to be proved by winning anything, the evidence proves it. If power-hungry megalomaniacs choose to use it as a tool to further their agendas, the theory is no more to blame than a hammer is when it’s wielded to smash someone’s skull.

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by MrXYZ
I'm not aware of anyone claiming they're god.

I do.
I claim that you're god too.

Sounds like a sermon by Rev.Pete of ATC.

The concept of evolution was originally conceived by an atheist right? The is likely where the stereotype of all evolutionists are atheists has stemmed from.

When I think about God having created the universe, I always think about who created God. It is a chicken and the egg situation. When I think about the big bang, I then think about what created the big bang? You could think in circles your entire life but it wouldn't do you any good. I have eventually accepted the fact we will never be able to comprehend the complexities of the universe as it is and that the only true solution would be to have a creator.

Atheism is a belief, and Chistianity is a belief. They are both based on faith and cannot be measured or experimented on. Anyone who thinks they can scientifically dispove one belief with another belief is fool.

I myself am a creationist/christian/evolutionist and I also feel that we are being marginalized.

On a seperate note, if you want to be an informed person stop picking sides and go read all the stuff you don't want to hear and forget about all your biased opinions.

reply to post by six67seven

If God exists and he created the universe, you're damn right we should talk all about the rules in the bible, as they would be the most relevant rules on earth.

Interesting word there... "if".

I am not going to run around in circular debate about this. Offer scientific formulation that God exists so that you actually have a fact to base the theory of creationism off of. Not saying God doesn't exist - but science is about facts that lead to theories about other things... SO, people have a case for evolution because it can be based upon the fact that there have been genetic differences between early man and modern man which shows we have evolved as a species. There is no evidence of us being created by a God or gods... nothing.

Originally posted by centrifugal
The concept of evolution was originally conceived by an atheist right? The is likely where the stereotype of all evolutionists are atheists has stemmed from.

No, the concept of evolution came from many Christian sources. Darwin explored the concept in depth, researching and putting together his theories in "The Origin of the Species."

Darwin himself was a Christian for his first forty years, and then gradually became an agnostic.

In his autobiography written in 1876 he recalled that at the time of writing the On the Origin of Species the conclusion was strong in his mind of the existence of God due to "the extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capacity of looking far backwards and far into futurity, as the result of blind chance or necessity. When thus reflecting I feel compelled to look to a First Cause having an intelligent mind in some degree analogous to that of man; and I deserve to be called a Theist.

In 1879 John Fordyce wrote asking if Darwin believed in God, and if theism and evolution were compatible. Darwin replied that a man "can be an ardent Theist and an evolutionist", citing Charles Kingsley and Asa Gray as examples, and for himself, "In my most extreme fluctuations I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God.— I think that generally (& more and more so as I grow older) but not always, that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."

As you see, Darwin was not advocating atheism, and did not see evolution as proof of the non-existence of god.

It's possible that, out of all the scientists currently contributing to evolutionary theory, more are theistic than atheist. Proof that mankind evolved may be jarring to Christian literalists, but many Christians are not literalists, and there are many believers in other religions for whom the literal interpretations of creation stories are not canon.

When I think about God having created the universe, I always think about who created God. It is a chicken and the egg situation.

I believe time is an illusion, possibly created by god, and thus, if there is a god, there always was a god.

When I think about the big bang, I then think about what created the big bang?

Darwin wondered about the same question, and argued for the possibility of god as original creator.

In November 1878 when George Romanes presented his new book refuting theism, A Candid Examination of Theism by "Physicus", Darwin read it with "very great interest", but was unconvinced, pointing out that its arguments did not rule out God creating matter and energy at the beginning of the universe, with a propensity to evolve. If theism were true, "reason might not be the only instrument for ascertaining its truth".

You could think in circles your entire life but it wouldn't do you any good.
I have eventually accepted the fact we will never be able to comprehend the complexities of the universe as it is and that the only true solution would be to have a creator.
Atheism is a belief, and Chistianity is a belief. They are both based on faith and cannot be measured or experimented on. Anyone who thinks they can scientifically dispove one belief with another belief is fool.
I myself am a creationist/christian/evolutionist and I also feel that we are being marginalized.

On a seperate note, if you want to be an informed person stop picking sides and go read all the stuff you don't want to hear and forget about all your biased opinions.

You state which side you're on, and then tell other people not to pick sides?

Opinions are not biased just because they conflict with yours, neither are yours unbiased just because they are yours.

I've studied both sides of the debate. I have an unshakeable belief in god, yet I've had to acknowledge, after examining the evidence, that there is ample physical proof of evolution and no physical proof of god or creation.

When creationists stop attacking education standards by trying to force science teachers to teach a religious belief in science class, I can assure you I'll find activities other than posting in this forum more deserving of my time.



All external text is found, with sources, in:
Charles Darwin's religious views

I believe the elites are only in their position of power because of suppressed knowledge. Knowledge=money=power. They all play a key role with one another, because generally speaking, in our system, you have to have at least one to get the other. Most of our society spends their money to get knowledge, to make more money. They already have all 3. If they were really all about our own good; they would provide free knowledge. But the problem then is you break the cycle. Free knowledge would tremendously decrease the money flow, and ultimately, their power. I think that is a lot of the effect that we are seeing now. For instance; I thought for the longest that I was middle class... I have a nice home (that I rent-but is now in foreclosure lol) I have nice things, and can generally go out and do things from time to time without feeling totally 'strapped'. Well... according to the numbers, middle class is between $25,000 and $100,000... I don't know about you guys, but that is a WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENCE when you are standing on this playing field! We come in at about 60K/year, now adjusting for inflation, etc... 20 years ago, my parents made about the same, and we have a whole lot more than my parents had then! I think this is mostly because of our increased communications, plus little helpers like Craigslist and ebay, help us 'low enders' get some 'high ender' stuff, that makes it seem like we are doing better than what we really are.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by six67seven

 

I'd say evolution is winning.

More to the point, evolution is about winning.

The whole premise of power and those who hold it is - winning.

The winners' belief is that it's just evolutionary, it's not right or wrong, it's not good or bad, it's neither fair nor unfair.

It's just the way it is, deal with it, I'm stronger than you, I win.

Finished.

Who cares what their mouths say, actions speak louder. Their power is selfish greed and lust for wealth and admiration, and they use it to protect themselves from those who would bring them back down to earth: all us normal people. They are tall poppies grown by Lady Money.

"what I see is a leaning tower that coward demons built to hide in"

They use her to build protective structures around them, structures that licence and justify their greed, their decisions, their power. Otherwise known as Law.

Their towering Temple consists of the Bank, the Court and the Security Wall.

Money is their goddess and mistress.

The Security Wall enforces the perimeter of the Court, and the Court protects and surrounds the Bank. This is how they protect that inner room where their goddess lays. With her they lay to birth their power, and to uphold it.

But that's just how it is ::shrug:: It's neither here nor there, they say. It's just the way it is ::shrug::

It's how it's meant to be - it's all evolutionary,

Where power is proof by potency.

It's all poo to me though.

reply to post by six67seven


Actually Hitler didn't support Evolution. Hitler, in order to prove his nonsense about the Master race used all sorts of pseudoscience that was more related to Lamarkism than Darwinism. It wouldn't matter if Hitler had accepted Evolution. Simply because an evil person accepts something has no bearing on whether or not that thing is true. You are attempting to show that Evolution had some affinity with evil people in history and thus creating some sort of guilt-by-association fallacy where the accuracy of Evolution is determined by whether some despots believed it or not.

A Christian nation full of vulnerable people whom were just enjoying their freedoms.

Correction, a nation of many faiths where Christianity happens to be the religion believed by the majority of citizens. In no way is this a Christian nation in any sense other than that a majority of residents here have chosen to identify by the label Christian.

I believe the elitists, or a majority, are evolutionists at their core

This is the same fallacy you committed earlier. Who accepts evolution has no bearing on whether or not its true. What makes evolution true is the evidence we have to back it up.

If they truly were people of traditional faith, how can they justify the world in which they live and will soon leave behind?

Why does being a person of faith make someone inherently better? Last I checked willful gullibility was not a virtue. You are assuming that faith and tradition are inherently good things that, if left behind, will lead us to ruin. Yet society has made great progress in the past centuries much of which involved leaving tradition and commonly accepted religious doctrine behind. Slavery for instance was supported by the Bible but social progressives, many of whom happened to be Christians of a different flavor, eventually brought slavery down.

although I believe evolution can be considered a religion, but that is besides the point.

How does anyone logically get from: Species change over time due to genetic variation to Therefore we can murder people. There is no logical link from evolution to eugenics.

America is still the only Christian nation in a position of great power.

There is separation of church and state, the Constitution is an inherently secular document, this is not a Christian nation.

I believe if the elitists take over, then the evolutionists win.

Honestly I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. You have yet to establish any link between evolution and eugenics, have yet to establish that an NWO or Elite even exist and have yet to define what you mean by evolutionist. If you mean someone who accepts evolution than I am most definitely an evolutionist because the evidence points toward evolution as the source of bio-diversity. The truth of Evolution hasn't had any negative effects on my morality, in fact it's made me more moral because I see just how social a species we are and just how much we share in common with animals (rather than the Christian idea of having dominion over them, I see them as evolutionary relatives who share many attributes with us humans).

I feel evolutionists may applaud their belief system

Evolution is a scientific theory backed by over 150 years of gathered evidence including fossils, genetics, behavior and morphology. We've even observed evolution directly. It is not a belief system.

That is my theory of evolution.

No offense but you are the single most misinformed person about Evolution I have ever encountered, ever. Pick up a middle school science text-book sometime, go to a museum, sift through actual peer-reviewed science on the subject. Maybe then you'll see the mountains of evidence for evolution and how it has nothing to do with eugenics or justifications for world government.