More riots in Europe!

reply to post by bigyin


I agree. There is also no reason why we cant say enough is enough and refuse to pay back all debts.
Ecuador and Venezuela did it to the IMF, so why not every person ?

A clean slate and a fresh start not based on Monday, but instead Energy.

G

reply to post by orinoco4


There are many eco village style projects happening now
Also woofing is becoming more and more popular to get these eco villages build and sustainable.
www.wwoof.org...

Land is very very cheap as soon as you move away form the big cities.
Its easy to pay it back because the well designed energy systems are able to push energy back onto the grid using the FIT (Feed In tariff). In mayeb 2 to 4 years the whole thing is paid off and you debt free and living for no one put your self.

g

reply to post by gedw99


Just to be clear, I don't condone not paying back debts. If a person takes a loan they should pay back what they owe. I am against hyped up interest rates. I'm against the scams and con tricks pulled by banks to create money out of thin air, and selling bad debts to unwary customers.

If you got a loan to buy a house or a car either pay back the initial amount or give the goods back.

And as for these bankers recieving unimaginable amounts of money in bonuses for simply doing their job needs to be stopped and the money clawed back.

reply to post by bigyin


I agree that you have a moral obligation to pay back for anything you take.
But think about the contradictions of what you are saying:

1. Have huge companies that take for free from the environment paid it back to the environment ? They call it an "externalities". Its off balance sheet transactions. The reality that money is backed by energy. Currently Oil So when they are taking from the environment they are "inventing" money.
2. Many banks make money for free using arithmetic trading at millisecond speeds and also lend moey to you that THEY dont have using Fractional reserve lending. They did NOT have to work for that money but they are allowed to charge you interests for it.

If you cant see this logic yet then wake up and smell the roses.

You have to question how the systems is designed to always keep the small person down and always allow the corporations and banks to get a free ride.
I dont have a problem with ingenuity, but the problem is that they are getting a free ride from people you yourself, me and everyone else that works for a living.

Originally posted by donhuangenaro

Originally posted by Echtelion


The Greek insurgents get it right, I wonder why Croatians and Serbians don't seem to get along too much with this crowd. Maybe it's just the language barrier.

...it was the information barrier/manipulation that make us go against each other, and the consequence is that we don't trust Serbians any more and vice versa...

will this make us come close together?

I doubt it... a lot of people on both sides are still hating each other for what happened here recently...

Yes, it's funny: there are still many people in both of these countries who hate each others although they are in much worse shape than before breakup of Yugoslavia, at least majority of ordinary people. Unfortunately they don't see who benefited the most. They don't ask themselves how come that they are much poorer than before and how come their elite became so rich. They don't ask themselves where did their millions come from. It shows you how easy is to manipulate people and to turn their misery and unrest toward anything puppet master(s) wants to...

reply to post by gedw99


I know how it works and what the problems are.

All these types of scams should be outlawed.

There still needs to be simple and honest forms of lending money to individuals so they can go about their business.

I think this Henry Ford quote could also summarize what is going on:

It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

source

reply to post by freethinker123

If you read first post you will see that i wrote about 3 protests. First two protests didn't have anything to do with war veterans but still they did call people to support war veterans on Saturday 26.2. Second protest was also violent and police said that it was provocated by 5 (five) hooligans. If you watch few videos you will see that many older people fought with police too and that more than 5 persons was involved.

Third protest was organised by war veterans (and fourth, today in Split) but war veterans did not fight with the police.

Media is trying to show this as nationalist / rightist protest and maybe even i would agree in the past but not today...why? Because right winged parties ("Pravaši",HSP, HČSP...) had their protests not so long time ago and almost noone supported them. Not even 100 people came! They protested against EU, against prosecution of war veterans, against gay pride and so on...but noone supported them!
Of course they did support this protest of war veterans but they didn't organise it. Right winged parties don't have any real power in Croatia! Not anymore!

War veterans supported ruling party HDZ (which was considered to be right winged) just year or two ago but like i already wrote, that is not a case anymore. So i think i eliminated all right winged parties. My point is: i don't believe that right winged parties are behind this protests.

Also my opinion is that first two protest had more left winged people then right. I have to agree that last one (and the biggest one) could have more right winged people. But like i wrote before, i believe it doesn't really matter. Because noone is trying to get another party on the top instead of HDZ. On all those protests i only heard shouts against current prime minister Jadranka Kosor and government. I didn't hear even single shout in favour of any other party or ideology.

True, while fighting police many protesters did shout things like "Fight for your nation" but i didn't see that like right or left winged shout. I saw that like shout from and for all people in Croatia.

Little bit more about war:
It's still very hard topic to talk about. I never pointed my finger and said who is guilt and who is not. But in this case i stand on side of croatian veteran Tihomir Purda. War is a bad thing itself but i believe there are those who fight from moral and honorable reason and those who want blood. In case of Vukovar im on the side of Tihomir Purda. Many, many band things happened from both sides but i do believe that croatian soldiers who defended Vukovar are good people. They defended their city when almost everyone else "forgot" about them. Personally i believe Vukovar was lost because politicians sold it.
Maybe i am wrong about Purda and Vukovar but i am sure that protesters didn't attack police because of him. They attacked police because they are unhappy with everything else in this country.


@Douriff
I understand what you want to say. Well we can only hope protests will become more oganised. I hope we meet on one of them

@gedw99
Thats sounds very interesting. I Would like to read more about it!

Originally posted by stirling
Teach em all how to do the Mussolini dance says me.....
Good luck my friend. the whole situation is not what it seems.
Be careful out there.....
s

Stirling, just one historical fact about your post, taken from Wikipedia

This article is about the Nazi puppet state. For the nation which gained independence in 1991, see Croatia.
The Independent State of Croatia (Croatian: Nezavisna Država Hrvatska, NDH) was a World War II puppet state of Nazi Germany,[4] established on a part of Axis-occupied Yugoslavia. The NDH was founded on 10 April 1941, after the invasion of Yugoslavia by the Axis powers. The state was technically a monarchy and Italian protectorate from the signing of the Rome agreements on May 19, 1941 until the Italian capitulation on September 8, 1943, but the king-designate, the Prince Aimone of Savoy-Aosta, refused to assume the kingship in opposition to the Italian annexation of the Croat-populated Yugoslav region of Dalmatia.[1][2][3] The state was actually controlled by the governing fascist Ustaše movement and its Poglavnik,[note 1] Ante Pavelić, which in turn were primarily under German influence. For its first two years up to 1943, the state was also a territorial condominium[5] of Germany and Italy (which exercised significant influence only in areas occupied by Italian military forces). Additionally, central Dalmatia was annexed directly into Italian territory as part of the irredentist agenda of an Italian Mare Nostrum (Our Sea). Italian influence collapsed in 1943, with the ousting of Italian fascist leader Benito Mussolini. Racial enemies of the NDH were Jews, Serbs and Roma people, against whom large-scale genocide campaigns were conducted in places such as the Jasenovac concentration camp.[6][7][8]

reply to post by donhuangenaro


Would revealing to the public the whole NWO plot behind the war would improve things, and even make people unite?

The whole world is beginning to erupt in mass protests. It boggles the mind that the MSM (I watch CNN) can make time for entertainment news and features on the latest goat stampede in Wherever U.S.A.. That they make time for any of this drivel while the most real and important events are unfolding at an ever increasing and alarming rate is absurd. They continue to expose themselves for the propaganda arm of whoever is in charge of things that they really are. What a joke.

And their forced smiles, as they dish out the infonews, are wearing thin. even for them.

Sadly this post of mine is somewhat offtopic, but I think we have an understanding.

reply to post by dario86


Good luck to you lot..... hope you get what you want over there.... corrupt Governments are everywhere..... and ruthless leaders....

Originally posted by zilebeliveunknown

Originally posted by stirling
Teach em all how to do the Mussolini dance says me.....
Good luck my friend. the whole situation is not what it seems.
Be careful out there.....
s

Stirling, just one historical fact about your post, taken from Wikipedia

This article is about the Nazi puppet state. For the nation which gained independence in 1991, see Croatia.
The Independent State of Croatia (Croatian: Nezavisna Država Hrvatska, NDH) was a World War II puppet state of Nazi Germany,[4] established on a part of Axis-occupied Yugoslavia. The NDH was founded on 10 April 1941, after the invasion of Yugoslavia by the Axis powers. The state was technically a monarchy and Italian protectorate from the signing of the Rome agreements on May 19, 1941 until the Italian capitulation on September 8, 1943, but the king-designate, the Prince Aimone of Savoy-Aosta, refused to assume the kingship in opposition to the Italian annexation of the Croat-populated Yugoslav region of Dalmatia.[1][2][3] The state was actually controlled by the governing fascist Ustaše movement and its Poglavnik,[note 1] Ante Pavelić, which in turn were primarily under German influence. For its first two years up to 1943, the state was also a territorial condominium[5] of Germany and Italy (which exercised significant influence only in areas occupied by Italian military forces). Additionally, central Dalmatia was annexed directly into Italian territory as part of the irredentist agenda of an Italian Mare Nostrum (Our Sea). Italian influence collapsed in 1943, with the ousting of Italian fascist leader Benito Mussolini. Racial enemies of the NDH were Jews, Serbs and Roma people, against whom large-scale genocide campaigns were conducted in places such as the Jasenovac concentration camp.[6][7][8]

Good find, zielebeliveunknown1

Yougoslav, especially around the actual region of Serbia, made a long, painful, but victorious war against the Nazi occupation. They were able to repel the armies of Nazi Germany, almost by themselves.

THe fight against the Nazi occupation, and the Croatian collaborators.



A pro-Western documentary that's still a good intro:


This is a struggle that should be taught in history classes in the West... but instead the mainstream media LIED to us for years by showing Serbs as a bunch of Nazi invaders during the '90s.

How funny that NATO divided and bought the country by the exact same design than the Nazis did!

Go Croatia you deserve better. Maybe this will be the inspiration so the people here in Macedonia will realize that they can change the things too.
The funny thing is that we are a country away from Croatia and I didn't hear anything in the news so far.

I just mentioned Ustaše and Partisans to explain why we have right and left flank in Croatia. I don't see any other reason to bring up this part of history in this topic. I tried to explain that this protests in Croatia are against politicians that steal from people.

If you plan on discussing on WW2 and which nation or flank killed more people please open a new thread.
Thanks

reply to post by dario86


Thanks for the reply Dario. Yes, I realise the protests held before were not mainly rightists. The reason why I mentioned the one in Zagreb was because it was the biggest.
One of the main aims of the war veterans was the Purda case we mentioned. I would not call him a war veteran, rather a suspected war criminal until he is tried before a court, but its probably not useful to go into this case right now. The point is that Kosor and her government have been accused of not doing enough to stop Purda's extradition. That is one reason why they are being attacked by the right.
When you talk about whether its right wing parties that organise it, or that right wing parties don't have power, that does not make any difference - if the aims of a protest are right wing, then the protest is a right wing protest. Traditionally left wing protests will be about jobs, complaining about the econony etc. Right wing protests will have more flags flying, will carry flags of both war veterans and convicted war criminals, or right wing figures of the past will be praised. Of course the football hooligans always wait until it gets darker to make their own 'form' of protest when rightist inspired protests occur.

Look I'll be honest with you, I have blood from the region. I know the mentality of people in the Balkans, I can understand very well what people are shouting in the youtube videos and know the history of what flags people are carrying.

That last Zagreb protest does not represent normal people in my opinion, it represents right wing goals. If the protest was to do with complaining about HDZ government, about mistaken economic policies, about lack of jobs, about concrete cases of corruption (Sanader for example) then I would be in the crowd. But I will not join a crowd where convicted war criminals are celebrated, in Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia or anywhere else. I hope you understand I am not attacking you, I still support the right to protest.

Originally posted by freethinker123
reply to post by dario86

 

...Traditionally left wing protests will be about jobs, complaining about the econony etc.

That's what it is all about! Yes it happened during war veterans protests but like i wrote before, group of mainly young protesters split up during the war veterans protests. I don't think they attacked police because of Purda.
People that were on first and second protest that had nothing to do with veterans also came on third protest. If it were only about Purda then it would be calm protest of 5-10 thousand people. But war veterans also demand prime minister and government to step down so more people showed up. War veterans ask that from government because they don't like prosecution of other war veterans but people ask government to step down from hundred more reasons.

Also you have to consider that in same time a lot of people gathered in other croatian cities and they protested against government because they are poor and not because of Purda. At the same time like protest in Zagreb, protests happened in about 5 more cities and protesters showed support for Purda only in one more city.
(note that war veterans organised one more protests yesterday 27.2. in Split, but that's the day after the one in Zagreb and in other cities).

So i would even dare to say that those were 2 protests in the same time in Zagreb. One mainly to show support for croatian war veterans, other to try to overthrow government (because bad econommic state).

I know you are not attacking me Everyone has their opinion and thats how it should be

Problem of this protests was that they weren't organised very well. And protesters didn't put their demands "on paper" yet. But i hope that will change soon as new protests are scheduled for this week

oh...and i almost forgot
History of flags? If you mean on flags that have emblem that starts with first white square and not the red like in official flag today? That's historic emblem of Croatia that dates long time ago before NDH and WW2. That same emblem is on the roof of church on St. Mark's square. Like i already said all right-winged simbols from WW2 are banned in Croatia.

It has every possibility starting in the UK aswell.
£100 billion cuts, 500,000 job losses, thousands of frontline service jobs axed, overstretched weak military, slow economy, no industry.
The tinderbox is lit.
The clock is ticking for a continent wide revolution the drugs are wearing off. We just have to be careful who wins...

tick tock tick tock...

Wow Good read. I am of Croatian parentage living in Australia and neither myself or any of my family here had any idea that something like this was happening. Upon sending messages to overseas relatives they did indeed confirm this to be all true.Nothing of this has made it to local media.....OP please keep us updated !!!

Originally posted by Echtelion


This is a struggle that should be taught in history classes in the West... but instead the mainstream media LIED to us for years by showing Serbs as a bunch of Nazi invaders during the '90s.

How funny that NATO divided and bought the country by the exact same design than the Nazis did!

edit on 27/2/11 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)

so, you believe the serbian sources, the same serbians that mutilated almost 8000 people in Srebrenica?

you disappoint me... Ustashe were bad, yes, but Serbian Chetnicks were worse and collaborated with Nazis too:

source

Last week, the Serbian daily Blic published another contribution to the long-running efforts of anti-Communist Serb nationalists to rehabilitate the Nazi-collaborationalist Serbian Chetnik movement of World War II. Such efforts represent an affront to the Serbian anti-fascist heritage and to all those who survived the Chetniks’ crimes. I am therefore publishing here an extract from my book Genocide and Resistance in Hitler’s Bosnia: The Partisans and the Chetniks, 1941-1943, Oxford University Press, Oxford, 2006 (pp. 156-162) that illustrates the anti-Semitic and genocidal character of the Chetnik movement.

photo from the source showing chetniks posing with nazi soldiers:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2c24b0e54c59.jpg[/atsimg]

yes, I agree that you should learn your history better

but let's get back to the topic, what is happening now in my country has nothing to do with chetnick or ustashe, that is ancient history...