More riots in Europe!

Croatia is not officially in Europe... and banners like this were seen on streets:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/195304b0b518.jpg[/atsimg]

(translated: I love Croatia, no to EU)

they depict what the majority of ordinary people think about joining corrupted Europe (personally, EU reminds me of Yugoslavia but western way too much)

of course, no one in power in Croatia ask what ordinary people think (and why the mob in power stole so much money in the name of 'democracy' - our ex prime minister is in jail), and that's why people are getting to streets

To be honest i didn't hear for "Uzor" till now. Word could be translated like "example", "model" or something like that. Anyway, i googled it and i found out that this is small organization working with young people. They organised events for children like masquerade. I guess they just wanted to show support for protesters or use this protests for self-promotion??? I don't know, maybe theres also party named like that but i couldn't find anything.

I agree there have been some tendencies to some "extreme-flanked" views in the past. Its not easy to explain but ill try...
During WW2 Ustaše (extreme right-flank) formed independent country of Croatia. They supported nazi regime. At first many Croats supported Ustaše because they formed Croatian country after long, long time. But as soon as Ustaše showed their real face many Croats joined Partizans (left-flanked). At first it was movement to overthrow Ustaše and to give freedom to people. But as WW2 came to end many extreme right-flanked politicians and people joined Partizans just to be on a winning side (not just Ustaše but right-flanked Serbs, Bosnians too). Soon communism and Partizans became very similar to Ustaše and they started prosecuting and killing whoever opposed them.

Unfortunately those ideologies still live in some people today. While Ustaše and extreme right-flank is banned in Croatia some people still freely speak in favour of extreme left-flank. And to me as well to many other people, those extreme-flanked views are exactly the same! So many people that aren't really right-flanked support right-flank just because left-flank is openly supported by some politicians. And like i sad left-flank did many injustice to people in the past just like right-flank did too. Anyway i wouldn't say that any of these has any real effect on protests these days.

During this protests i saw one (1 !) person wearing nazi simbols while i saw few people with banners that had left-flanked messages (slogans). But i didn't see any problems between left and right oriented people. I really felt like everyone was united last few days. Oh and i almost forgot, today in Split there were some banners showing our ruling politicians like communists.

Also our ruling party HDZ (Croatian Democratic Union ) was considered to be right-flanked (not extremely) few years ago. At the moment we have protests against them so some people could think protesters are left-flanked but that is not true. Main opposition party SDP (Social Democratic Party of Croatia) is still considered to be left-flanked. But in media they showed only little support for protests and noone among protesters showed open support for them. I would even say protesters didn't show open support for any party at all because they blame all politicians!
So protesters are mixed and i think that's good thing. We dont really have main stream in protests. Some might say even that war veterans are the main stream but like we saw yesterday many people split up from them and attacked police. So we cant say they have "power" over the protesters.

I still stand behind what i said before. Calling protesters hooligans or extreme right/left winged is just poor attempt to break current unity of protesters against politicians.

News from protests in Split today:
One man collapsed during the protests and died on the way to the hospital. There werent any clashes with police.

P.S. I know my English isn't perfect, sorry for that.

Sounds like a lot of you guys are getting wise to the fact that left or right, they're all the same. It's the same in America, but most people still aren't aware of it yet, but awareness is growing.

Yes, it does grow!

There is currently active poll on one portal:
Who is responsible for riots in Zagreb?
* 82,04% Jadranka Kosor and goverment
* 13,11% hooligans
* 2,95% opposition
* 1,90% protesters

Total votes:4738

Poll is HERE (right column at the bottom).

reply to post by dario86


Thank you for clearing that up for us!

One must identify the "cause and effect" though; what happens when there is too much people unemployed, when the state is out of cash and information about the situation is poor? What happens when a "strong man" steps forward to "set things straight again"?

I mean, unemployment and poverty is one problem in itself, of course.
but
The social and political consequences of unemployment and poverty can be very grave and lead to yet bigger problems that are much harder to restore.
People with no money and nothing to do all day becomes very despertate and are often very quick to point fingers and blame.

Maybe the EU is the only possible way to regain stability? Closing the country now would be like putting the lid on a saucepan with boiling water, imo. Of course, the union is not perfect in all aspects, especially not now, but nationalism is never a proper long-term solution. Nationalism in this area has proven very wrong before...

But as you said, dario, we should neither point and blame at the demonstrators. The situation is critical due to poor leadership. Those in power must need know that their dancing days are over; there is actually a people out there who rely on them to do the best for everyone! This is why there was democracy in the first place.
Corruption is an evil poision but it can be fought!
Just stay away from the extreme flanks, left or right, they both give empty promisies of liberty!

I still stand behind what i said before. Calling protesters hooligans or extreme right/left winged is just poor attempt to break current unity of protesters against politicians.

Its the western way to do that

Cant have a population agreeing with those who are protesting and joining them now, must make them fear the protesters

Like I said its the western way

Where there is a clash, media concentrates on the violence, never mind the fact its not even a majority of the protesters part of that voilence (often hired thugs) they do that to scare the population

Lets look at the recent protesting in the UK with the students, media concentrated more so on Charles and Camilla where there was alittle clash, meanwhile 50,000 students continued to protest peacefully...Did the media cover that? No

Population ends up divided divided divided, confused confused confused

Thanks for posting this news. Once again, showing that ATS is possibly the best news source on the internet right now.

Reminds me of the saying, the revolution will not be televised.

With humanities technological capabilities, we could all be living decent life styles. Working and contributing together, we have more than enough capability to provide food and shelter, and reasonable living conditions for everyone.

The problem is those who just have to have more than everyone else, and are willing to do what ever to get their way.

reply to post by dario86


dude those places are not Europe they are 3rd world countries

reply to post by dario86


Star and Flag, an Excellent first thread/introduction.

Thank you for getting this news out. Otherwise we would never know.

The Media here in my country, the USA has been owned by the bankers for a hundred years. I think it is the same in most countries.

The banker/politicians have set up a massive economic failure here in the USA too. It will hit after about a year from now when the new laws take effect.

I am not sure if the Elite are stirring up the trouble in the all different countries on purpose or not, but I would not be surprised if they were. As some one else said it looks like we are headed towards the end game.

Just remember the politicians are nothing but PUPPETS you want the ones BEHIND the puppets.

Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it. - President Woodrow Wilson 1913 en.wikiquote.org...

I hope for the Croatian people, that they are able to get the riotous portion of this protesting under control. One of the most outstanding models for change is the recent Egyptian protest and its outcome. It was mostly a calm unity of the people against the regime that they no longer wanted. They banded together and won the day.

Very seldom does violence win the day anymore. The police are better armed and armored than the people and they are trained to work together in a more calm and defined manner. They will win most fights. So, you have to take that power from them. Do not fight. Unless the leadership tells them too, most police will not attack people standing in peaceful demonstration.

I hope for the sake of your country and your countrymen and your future that the Croatian people learn to stand unity in peace and bring about the change that you so desire.

As for the media, they will always announce how wonderful it is for demonstrators in other countries, but will certainly demonstratize it in their own. It is agenda driven and usually politically controlled dis-information to show unrest in the home nation. That lends reason to extreme retaliation.

Welcome to ATS and be at peace.

Originally posted by dario86
I still stand behind what i said before. Calling protesters hooligans or extreme right/left winged is just poor attempt to break current unity of protesters against politicians.

witnesses report innocent people were beaten by police, women included too... police just took on random people without thinking...

do you call innocent women bystanders hooligans too?

pathetic

Policija je reagirala brutalno, uz pretjeranu uporabu sile. Neka predsjednik pogleda snimke i pročita Kodeks policije. Mlatili su sve što su stigli. Žena pored mene je dobila pendrekom po ramenu a samo je mirno stajala na mjestu. Kad su krenuli u čišćenje Radićeve, pendrečili su sve do Trga tko god im se našao na putu. Nisu stali. Ako to nije pretjerana uporaba sile, onda ne znam što je.

translation: "Police reacted brutally with exaggerated use of force. Let the president watch the videos and read the police codex. They [police] beat up everyone they encountered. A women beside me got beaten with police baton just because she stood there peacefully. When they started cleaning up the Radich street, they used they batons on anyone on the way. If this is not exaggerated use of force than I don't know what it is."


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Originally posted by soundmatrix2009
reply to post by dario86

 

dude those places are not Europe they are 3rd world countries

Dude, education? :-)
2nd.

Originally posted by leaualorin
reply to post by dario86

 

I don't know ...
but isn't it STUPID to fight with those morons that ACTUALLY DEFEND THE BIG CRIMINALS?

I PROPOSE TO HUNT DOWN THE LEADERS IN ORDER TO BE KILLED!

Fighting those that protect the BIG CRIMINALS/"LEADERS" is not a solution at all!

Good point, but understand that the "big criminals" usually hide in their posh flats or villas in some safe locations. If it'd be about attacking them directly, a city center is an unlikely place where to find them. Protesters would be better hanging out in Switzerland, southern Germany or on the Mediterranean coast if they wanna have a shot at fame.

But if protesters succeed to break their defenses (the Police forces, mainly), then the elite are likely to fudge their pants.

War

Originally posted by Precognition

Originally posted by soundmatrix2009
reply to post by dario86

 

dude those places are not Europe they are 3rd world countries

Dude, education? :-)
2nd.

no help there, he thinks ignorance is knowledge

reply to post by soundmatrix2009


There wouldn't be rich countries if they don't powerabuse little countries. When you say 3th world countries you just repeat what they want you to say and think. And they are enemies of people.

@Raud
You are right but i don't think Croatia is ready for Europe union right now. Not because of people but because of government. From outside it might look like they improved the "system" for EU standards but its full of holes and problems. I think that first our politicians have to change and then Croatia can enter EU. Also at the moment about 55-60% of population is against joining EU. We will see...

@Ellen15
You are absolutely right. I watched many videos about student protest in UK but how did it "end"? Did politicians listened to their requests or?

@poet1b
Thank you! I hope that time is coming soon and this revolutions around the world might lead to it. I hope....

@soundmatrix2009
Well that's your opinion. Just keep in mind that guy named Nikola Tesla lived here and you can thank him for commercial electricity

@crimvelvet
Thank you! I know what you are talking about but i would say its a bit too much for most of the people. But we can see progress in almost all countries around the world. We are getting there

@wheresthetruth
At this moment i would say that some violence is needed because our politicians were "untouchable" for pretty long time now. But sure, mostly it should be calm. Noone would like to see people getting seriously hurt.
Thank you, i already love this site

reply to post by dario86


EU standards, you mean, for example the standard that you cannot sell vegetables in EU if they are not of an exact size, shape and color prohibited by EU 'high' standards?

link

The regulations covering the size and shape of 26 types of fruit and vegetable are expected to be abolished today by EU agriculture officials in a move that should make food cheaper and more fun. It will reduce the waste caused by an estimated 20 per cent of farm produce - such as curvy cucumbers or crooked carrots - being rejected for not meeting EU standards and should bring prices down at a time when household budgets are under heightened pressure.

The rules will remain in place in ten cases, including apples, pears, citrus fruit, strawberries and tomatoes - items representing three quarters of all fruit and vegetables sold in the EU.

yes, they have abolished that rule after decades of ruining 3rd countries agriculture... beware of the curved, killing cucumber

video released on official croatian police youtube chanel:




@dario
it is important to say that peaceful protesters were also trying to stop this fraction of violent people going up to st Marco square
protest were announced and given permit for the major square area, not for the other parts of the city. organizers didn't want protests to turn violent.

for others to get clearer picture:
The violent fraction vent up through the narrow street where met by police - in direction of relatively small st Marco square where buildings of parliament and gvmt. are situated opposing each other. Between two facing buildings there is a small church. Those rather narrow passes between buildings and church are not given permit for public gatherings. There is an ongoing debate about this issue in the parliament. However, the rioting protesters insisted to break to that particular part of the square as to complete a symbolic act of taking over. (Protests were (the other night) allowed some 100 m away from that particular part of the square)
For me this makes no sense. One of the rioters even attack and spat on the journalist (female).

Most people here never heard for Croatia. I will tell you what I think.

Cro is great country and living here is great if you don't live in city. Living in some Croatian city is like living in any other city on globe - painful (but ok some people like living unhealty).

Croatian story starts with world plan to separate communistic Yugoslavia that was 3th world military force until 1990.

World USA and EU leaders founded HDZ political party that leaded through world with our "ex brothers" in Serbia. It is hard to accept, but Serbians and Croatians are so similar that we speak language that both countries understand perfectly well. Imagine - people NOW speak same language and hate each other - madness.

After war, we had ruling HDZ party that did EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to destroy countries wealth - it started by selling all banks, then other vital industries like telecommunications. Every capital investition like building highways was carried by foreign EU or USA companies.

It was nothing more than classic modern infiltration and stealing of national wealth like we can see wherever USA or EU comes to help build democracy. Divide and conquer.

It would be great if HDZ is not so dumb - they could really do better things on nation manipulation but they are all dumb like.. GW Bush - remember that donkey? Well everyone in HDZ are like him - epic morons.

Well, I can also say that not much people would say story like this. People don't know so much - but they know that everybody in HDZ are corrupted.

policeman hitting a young man in the head after they cuff him...