Bodyless Dog's head brought back to life. 1940's Russian experiment.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
Makes me seriously wonder if when people die in the future they will retransplant their heads or their brains either onto machines/robots or donor bodies or something else. Seriously, we may end up doing something like this. Another possibility is we'll find out a way to repair the damaged brain/body after it has died. I have no idea how they'd do it, but nanomachines have broad potential to repair things in the body. It's all a question of: a) technology b) pain involved. If the technology isn't good enough or the pain is too high then it would never get past the ethics board. And of course the problem with this kind of research is that you learn faster if you experiment on actual animal/human bodies/brains. That invites sinister parties to do this research illegally.

There are all sorts of ethical implications involved in the idea of immortality. The same goes for the concept of transplanting the heads of recently deceased onto host bodies or some sort of robot. I doubt it is something that will ever come to pass, to be honest. Maybe one day far off in the distant future, but not in the current climate of ethical considerations.

There are many research groups devoted to studying the processes of ageing in the hopes of curbing it or at the very least, understanding it. They too would be greatly prohibited in applying whatever technologies they develop to human subjects. Firstly because I seriously doubt any ethics board would allow it into clinical trials without some serious animal studies and mountains of data (this is the case for most drugs and takes years in itself). Even then, the likelihood of it being allowed is pretty slim (in my opinion). It's just too controversial - sort of in the same way as stem cells.

Illegal research is pretty hard to do. For starters, where would you get the money? Government and industry funding is out, so I guess you'd have to be rich enough to buy all of the materials and equipment yourself. I include equipment because a university, institute or industry labs monitor the works of their staff quite closely and would quite obviously not allow illegal research to take place within their facility. Even supposing you have the money, you can't buy any of the equipment, let alone the materials (chemicals, animal subjects, etc.) without proper credentials - i.e. you cannot order such things for at home or personal use. They must be ordered through appropriate channels through the place you work. In conclusion, such research would be very hard to conduct.

I wonder what people 500 years ago would think if they knew we have heart transplants and machines to keep people alive and other technologies? Would they feel we're playing god by keeping people alive that would have been dead 500 years ago?

500 years ago we would have all been called witches and subjected to various trials by ordeal (supposing they somehow were able to enforce it).

I would have died 500 years ago after 6 months of pregnancy. I was premature. They never asked me whether I wanted to live or not. They never asked me if I liked living artificially for 3 months outside my mom. They never asked me if I wanted to absorb the burdens of being premature (people who were premature tend to have more disabilities throughout life). They're getting better at keeping premature babies health both when they're young and when they grow older, but it's a long road.

As an unborn baby, I'd say quite conclusively you would not have been able to give your informed consent. Are you suggesting people should just leave babies born before they're due to die? What a horrible notion, altruistically speaking.

It's easy to do abortion and 'experiments' on babies but not adults because adults can talk back.

edit on 26-2-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

It's not easy at all.

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Time magazine also did a report on it in here Link

He also did an experiment with attaching another head to a dog as mentioned in Time magazine Link

Well,.. these articles you're mentioning date from 1943 and 1955 !!!
Is there no recent activity regarding bringing dead animals back to life ??

Surely if you chop the head off, you chop the tongue and therefore have a floating, immobile muscle, making it impossible utilise?

reply to post by MITSwagger


perhaps you can explain what this image is supposed to prove? I see the muscle groups but in no way does it show that a dogs head can move in such a manner when it has no neck and no body to use as a lever.
Thanks!

reply to post by Kamesan


I'm not claiming hoax or not.. however I will hypothesize that it is impossible for a dog, or any animal for that matter, to flex or use tongue muscles with the nerve endings being severed at the neck. I could be wrong, but that's where I started disbelieving that video. I have to do a little more anatomy back ground checks, but for now.. I'm pretty sure that is nearly if not completely impossible.

Originally posted by MITSwagger
reply to post by TheLieWeLive

 

biology.about.com...


Please do not insult my intelligence. Man, this is why I am starting to hate ATS. Because of post's like yours. Did you even watch the video? The Blood they pump is of the dog's. They are able to apply oxygen as well. Why do you insist that the brain does not control muscle function? it does not matter if it is your Toe, Finger, Eye, Anus, Kidney, Liver. it's all controlled by the brain. Your misconception is that of believing your stomach is where your immune system comes from.

What are you talking about? Your intelligence? I said it was possible, just that the video looks fake. Read what I wrote before thinking I'm attacking you or your intelligence. I took my share of Anatomy brother, I'm not talking out of my rear end. I just don't believe the video, not that they couldn't have done this, I believe it's very possible.
The brain indeed does control motor function, but it can't when there is no muscle present. How can a dog flex it's neck when it has no neck?
The stomach reference was about how you could give the dog the nutrition it would need to survive with out a digestive system, I'm guessing you would have to figure out how to get it into the blood before it recirculated into the dogs head.

...and I thought the stomach is where the immune system came from? Where did I write that?

Go ahead hate ATS because you yourself didn't read all what I wrote. Geez. It is I who feels like his intelligence is being insulted.

This:
head-transplant.html

If true, is disgusting. A monkey head attached to another body. That's basically the same thing as the dog's head connected to wires and pumps. The only difference is that the blood supply and other things are coming from a live animal rather than artificial organs.

You know ... faith, pleasure, imagination, beauty, intelligence, knowledge, these are just things we use to hide from the truth. The truth is that the world we live in is ugly and disgusting. Everyone dies. Most people are forgotten. Most people are used. The few rule over the many. That's why we're so consumed by our lives because we don't want to face the truth: this is hell. This is prison.

No matter how much we surround ourselves with fake things, the ugliness will still exist. There's no way out of this. There's no after life. There's no cure for death or crime or human nature. This is a roman arena. Every man for himself. Work with others only so much as you have to. Since no one can change this it's the only choice we have. We can only hope to enjoy the fakeness for a short period of time. So live big and live wild. Your time will come. But know this: we're all losers in the end. This is to say that where we go in the end, death, is not something exclusively for us. It's for everyone. Losing this game of life and passing for eternity is probably the most normal thing anyone can do.

Everytime I see a pretty girl I see an old lady dying and moaning in pain. Everytime I see a man enjoying the fruits of his labor I see a man on the streets who failed time after time and now rots in disease and insanity. Everytime I see a man who researches the universe and preaches the glory of knowledge I see a man preaching insanity to others and denying that the universe even exists. Everytime I see someone that tells me things are ok and life is good I see that things are not ok and life is not good. There is no good. There is no bad. There's just what we have. It's what it's.

What's funny is everyone has their answer. But NO ONE has changed or made untrue the truth. And they will run a mile in 3 minutes to prove that they have the answer. But the truth still remains.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
This:
head-transplant.html


You know ... faith, pleasure, imagination, beauty, intelligence, knowledge, these are just things we use to hide from the truth. The truth is that the world we live in is ugly and disgusting. Everyone dies. Most people are forgotten. Most people are used. The few rule over the many. That's why we're so consumed by our lives because we don't want to face the truth: this is hell. This is prison.


What's funny is everyone has their answer. But NO ONE has changed or made untrue the truth. And they will run a mile in 3 minutes to prove that they have the answer. But the truth still remains.

edit on 26-2-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-2-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

The truth you speak of, is only one perspective of this "truth". I'm not saying you are wrong, but I am saying there is much more to understand. If there is one Truth, then it is a kaleidoscope with many perspectives.

I don't live a perfect life, but I try to stay aware. I have been in many bad situations in my life, but I always held onto the positive aspects during those times. To learn a lesson, it takes humility (not arrogance). More and more are opening up to this fact. If we all continue to spread these negative affirmations, then we will naturally live in this "hell" you speak of.

There is much to be done to better this world, and none of it is in vain. Many of us are jaded at times, as to whether even giving a helping hand to a man on the street is even worth the effort of reaching into your pocket. Well it is, Africa is condemned to torture by the powers that be, but money is not needed to turn this reality into a "heaven", love is.

¬Collapses¬

reply to post by ShadeWolf


Oh, I don't believe that USSR scientists didn't try it on humans. There were plenty of research facilities were people were taken to and they never came back. When Soviet Era ended there were human skeletons found many of them had traces of experiments performed on people. Like skulls missed upper part - probably scientists doing research on human brain.

Mad geniuses could do anything in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. No mans or animals life was more important than science.

I got nothing but it made me think of this scene.

Quite a disturbing video, sometimes I regret my curiosity, only sometimes though. You've been warned, as long as you read threads in reverse that is.

Some people are saying it's real, some are saying it's fake. Does anyone think 'Mythbusters' would give this a go? I don't see anything anywhere else on the net that can debunk this experiment, although I would have been happier (so to speak) if there was an overhead angle included in the filming of this cruelty, I do hope it really was only basic motor functions that reacted and not the central nervous system.

Freaky.

Just because something is POSSIBLE does not mean it's RIGHT.


Do we just do these now because we CAN?

You know, they work of this particular Russian scientist (and I'm not so much talking about this experiment as I am others) was at the forefront of medical science. He created the very first prototype for the modern heart-lung machine (a necessary tool for cardiopulmonary bypass). If it weren't for him, it's quite possible that the heart-lung machine we see and use today wouldn't even exist. Why should this man be ashamed himself? He was a world leader in open heart surgery. Many people who would have otherwise benefited from the work that followed his pioneering studies would be dead, if not for him. Certainly, he may have crossed some ethical boundaries with the decapitated dog experiment, but that was only one small experiment using his patented autoinjektor. Much of what he did involved resuscitating whole dogs up to (I think) 15 minutes after they were declared dead. Many of those dogs went on to live normal lives thereafter.

So. Decapitated dog experiment. Wrong? Ethically speaking, yes. Is Sergey Bryukhonenko a monster? Far from it.

The guy responsible for the monkey head transplants was quite an outspoken individual. He genuinely was aiming for the betterment of mankind through instigating organ transplantations. Generally he was perceived to be somewhat extreme and his experiments a touch on the unnecessary side. Most people of the scientific community do not agree with his work, revolutionary though he thought it was (I guess a head transplant is pretty revolutionary).

Again, ethics committees do not allow these sorts of experiments anymore. Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia pretty much had a morally deficient free-for-all in terms of science. A lot of good did come out of it, but mostly the experiments were too grotesque to even consider repeating.

I will come back to you all with links to Bryukhonenko's studies. Last night I found a German article that referenced his decapitation work, which is sufficient proof for me that this isn't a hoax. It is quite likely that the video was a restaging of events. I'm quite sure these experiments did take place. Currently on my phone, otherwise I'd link what I found.

It's real.

Some of you guys call hoax in every thread. I'm not even sure why you frequent this site if you aren't at least open to the possibility that reality is not what you think it is.

reply to post by MITSwagger


good thread,but the japanese under shiro ishi's supervision did this in the 1920s.

reply to post by Caji316


If your going to claim its fake prove it, im sick of people saying its fake and having nothing to prove it! its getting to be abit rediculous, i do agree this is slack, i hope that it was not be headed for experimental purposes but seeing what the government did to cats with '___' i wouldnt be suprised, spirits,serriosley, a spirit is not what makes you live, go back to bible class,it actualy sounds possable to if you know your science.

reply to post by IThinkImWilliamCooper


i totaly agree with you there, as you can see from my previos post haha, dont scream HOAX! if you have nothing to back up your claim, get off the site if thats all your capable of.

Interesting documentary:

www.vbs.tv...

Dr. Robert White has successfully transplanted full heads of monkeys and dogs onto new bodies. He has also kept severed dog heads alive and responding well after the "death" of the body. Can a human head/body transplant be that far away?

reply to post by MITSwagger

I would like to see them try to do that with dogs tail.

reply to post by TheLieWeLive


all the digestive system does is put nutrients and water into the blood. if you put these nutrients in using a machine you could keep the head alive.