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the GOV wants your gun

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posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:26 PM
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yes they are at it once again S 34, Denying firearms and Explosives to dangerous terrorist act of 2011 here is the video, he tells it a lot better that i can, does the name Se Frank Launtenberg mean any thing ? It should. www.youtube.com... and if your are wondering i am a NRA member and i do get the news letter and up to date laws and laws they GOV what to change to take away your 2nd Amendment right thought you would like to know.




posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by bekod
 


Just out curiosity,

How do you feel about the fact that the United States has 8 times more gun related crimes than any other economic counterpart?

Do you see any correlation between that fact and that the United States has some of the loosest gun regulations?

How do you feel about our loose regulations supplying Mexican Cartels with nearly four fifths of their arsenal?

I am merely seeking your opinions



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by bekod
 


here is the bill, shouldn't infringe on your rights unless you are a terrorist unless i missed something.

This Act may be cited as the `Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2011'. SEC. 2. GRANTING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THE AUTHORITY TO DENY THE SALE, DELIVERY, OR TRANSFER OF A FIREARM OR THE ISSUANCE OF A FIREARMS OR EXPLOSIVES LICENSE OR PERMIT TO DANGEROUS TERRORISTS. (a) Standard for Exercising Attorney General Discretion Regarding Transferring Firearms or Issuing Firearms Permits to Dangerous Terrorists- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (1) by inserting after section 922 the following: `Sec. 922A. Attorney General's discretion to deny transfer of a firearm `The Attorney General may deny the transfer of a firearm under section 922(t)(1)(B)(ii) of this title if the Attorney General-- `(1) determines that the transferee is known (or appropriately suspected) to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism, or providing material support or resources for terrorism; and `(2) has a reasonable belief that the prospective transferee may use a firearm in connection with terrorism. `Sec. 922B. Attorney General's discretion regarding applicants for firearm permits which would qualify for the exemption provided under section 922(t)(3) `The Attorney General may determine that-- `(1) an applicant for a firearm permit which would qualify for an exemption under section 922(t) is known (or appropriately suspected) to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism, or providing material support or resources for terrorism; and `(2) the Attorney General has a reasonable belief that the applicant may use a firearm in connection with terrorism.'; (2) in section 921(a), by adding at the end the following: `(36) The term `terrorism' includes international terrorism and domestic terrorism, as those terms are defined in section 2331 of this title. `(37) The term `material support or resources' has the same meaning as in section 2339A of this title. `(38) The term `responsible person' means an individual who has the power, directly or indirectly, to direct or cause the direction of the management and policies of the applicant or licensee pertaining to firearms.'; and (3) in the table of sections, by inserting after the item relating to section 922 the following: `922A. Attorney General's discretion to deny transfer of a firearm. `922B. Attorney General's discretion regarding applicants for firearm permits which would qualify for the exemption provided under section 922(t)(3).'. (b) Effect of Attorney General Discretionary Denial Through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) on Firearms Permits- Section 922(t) of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in paragraph (1)(B)(ii), by inserting `or State law, or that the Attorney General has determined to deny the transfer of a firearm pursuant to section 922A of this title' before the semicolon; (2) in paragraph (2), in the matter preceding subparagraph (A), by inserting `, or if the Attorney General has not determined to deny the transfer of a firearm pursuant to section 922A of this title' after `or State law'; (3) in paragraph (3)-- (A) in subparagraph (A)-- (i) in clause (i)-- (I) in subclause (I), by striking `and' at the end; and (II) by adding at the end the following: `(III) was issued after a check of the system established pursuant to paragraph (1);'; (ii) in clause (ii), by inserting `and' after the semicolon; and (iii) by adding at the end the following: `(iii) the State issuing the permit agrees to deny the permit application if such other person is the subject of a determination by the Attorney General pursuant to section 922B of this title;'; (4) in paragraph (4), by inserting `, or if the Attorney General has not determined to deny the transfer of a firearm pursuant to section 922A of this title' after `or State law'; and (5) in paragraph (5), by inserting `, or if the Attorney General has determined to deny the transfer of a firearm pursuant to section 922A of this title' after `or State law'. (c) Unlawful Sale or Disposition of Firearm Based Upon Attorney General Discretionary Denial- Section 922(d) of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in paragraph (8), by striking `or' at the end; (2) in paragraph (9), by striking the period at the end and inserting `; or'; and (3) by adding at the end the following: `(10) has been the subject of a determination by the Attorney General under section 922A, 922B, 923(d)(3), or 923(e) of this title.'. (d) Attorney General Discretionary Denial as Prohibitor- Section 922(g) of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in paragraph (8), by striking `or' at the end; (2) in paragraph (9), by striking the comma at the end and inserting `; or'; and (3) by inserting after paragraph (9) the following: `(10) who has received actual notice of the Attorney General's determination made under section 922A, 922B, 923(d)(3) or 923(e) of this title,'. (e) Attorney General Discretionary Denial of Federal Firearms Licenses- Section 923(d) of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in paragraph (1), in the matter preceding subparagraph (A), by striking `Any' and inserting `Except as provided in paragraph (3), any'; and (2) by adding at the end the following: `(3) The Attorney General may deny a license application if the Attorney General determines that the applicant (including any responsible person) is known (or appropriately suspected) to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism, or providing material support or resources for terrorism, and the Attorney General has a reasonable belief that the applicant may use a firearm in connection with terrorism.'. (f) Discretionary Revocation of Federal Firearms Licenses- Section 923(e) of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (1) by inserting `(1)' after `(e)'; (2) by striking `revoke any license' and inserting the following: `revoke-- `(A) any license'; (3) by striking `. The Attorney General may, after notice and opportunity for hearing, revoke the license' and inserting the following: `; `(B) the license'; and (4) by striking `. The Secretary's action' and inserting the following: `; or `(C) any license issued under this section if the Attorney General determines that the holder of such license (including any responsible person) is known (or appropriately suspected) to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism or providing material support or resources for terrorism, and the Attorney General has a reasonable belief that the applicant may use a firearm in connection with terrorism. `(2) The Attorney General's action'. (g) Attorney General's Ability To Withhold Information in Firearms License Denial and Revocation Suit- (1) IN GENERAL- Section 923(f)(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after the first sentence the following: `However, if the denial or revocation is pursuant to subsection (d)(3) or (e)(1)(C), any information upon which the Attorney General relied for this determination may be withheld from the petitioner, if the Attorney General determines that disclosure of the information would likely compromise national security.'. (2) SUMMARIES- Section 923(f)(3) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after the third sentence the following: `With respect to any information withheld from the aggrieved party under paragraph (1), the United States may submit, and the court may rely upon, summaries or redacted versions of documents containing information the disclosure of which the Attorney General has determined would likely compromise national security.'. (h) Attorney General's Ability To Withhold Information in Relief From Disabilities Lawsuits- Section 925(c) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after the third sentence the following: `If the person is subject to a disability under section 922(g)(10) of this title, any information which the Attorney General relied on for this determination may be withheld from the applicant if the Attorney General determines that disclosure of the information would likely compromise national security. In responding to the petition, the United States may submit, and the court may rely upon, summaries or redacted versions of documents containing information the disclosure of which the Attorney General has determined would likely compromise national security.'. (i) Penalties- Section 924(k) of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in paragraph (2), by striking `or' at the end; (2) in paragraph (3), by striking the comma at the end and inserting `; or'; and (3) by inserting after paragraph (3) the following: `(4) constitutes an act of terrorism, or providing material support or resources for terrorism,'. (j) Remedy for Erroneous Denial of Firearm or Firearm Permit Exemption- (1) IN GENERAL- Section 925A of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (A) in the section heading, by striking `Remedy for erroneous denial of firearm' and inserting `Remedies'; (B) by striking `Any person denied a firearm pursuant to subsection (s) or (t) of section 922' and inserting the following: `(a) Except as provided in subsection (b), any person denied a firearm pursuant to subsection (t) of section 922 or a firearm permit pursuant to a determination made under section 922B'; and (C) by adding at the end the following: `(b) In any case in which the Attorney General has denied the transfer of a firearm to a prospective transferee pursuant to section 922A of this title or has made a determination regarding a firearm permit applicant pursuant to section 922B of this title, an action challenging the determination may be brought against the United States. The petition shall be filed not later than 60 days after the petitioner has received actual notice of the Attorney General's determination under section 922A or 922B of this title. The court shall sustain the Attorney General's determination upon a showing by the United States by a preponderance of evidence that the Attorney General's determination satisfied the requirements of section 922A or 922B, as the case may be. To make this showing, the United States may submit, and the court may rely upon, summaries or redacted versions of documents containing information the disclosure of which the Attorney General has determined would likely compromise national security. Upon request of the petitioner or the court's own motion, the court may review the full, undisclosed documents ex parte and in camera. The court shall determine whether the summaries or redacted versions, as the case may be, are fair and accurate representations of the underlying documents. The court shall not consider the full, undisclosed documents in deciding whether the Attorney General's determination satisfies the requirements of section 922A or 922B.'. (2) TECHNICAL AND CONFORMING AMENDMENT- The table of sections for chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking the item relating to section 925A and inserting the following: `925A. Remedies.'. (k) Provision of Grounds Underlying Ineligibility Determination by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System- Section 103 of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (18 U.S.C. 922 note) is amended-- (1) in subsection (f)-- (A) by inserting `or the Attorney General has made a determination regarding an applicant for a firearm permit pursuant to section 922B of title 18, United States Code,' after `is ineligible to receive a firearm'; and (B) by inserting `except any information for which the Attorney General has determined that disclosure would likely compromise national security,' after `reasons to the individual,'; and (2) in subsection (g)-- (A) the first sentence-- (i) by inserting `or if the Attorney General has made a determination pursuant to section 922A or 922B of title 18, United States Code,' after `or State law,'; and (ii) by inserting `, except any information for which the Attorney General has determined that disclosure would likely compromise national security' before the period at the end; and (B) by adding at the end the following: `Any petition for review of information withheld by the Attorney General under this subsection shall be made in accordance with section 925A of title 18, United States Code.'. (l) Unlawful Distribution of Explosives Based Upon Attorney General Discretionary Denial- Section 842(d) of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in paragraph (9), by striking the period and inserting `; or'; and (2) by adding at the end the following: `(10) has received actual notice of the Attorney General's determination made pursuant to subsection (j) or (d)(1)(B) of section 843 of this title.'. (m) Attorney General Discretionary Denial as Prohibitor- Section 842(i) of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in paragraph (7), by inserting `; or' at the end; and (2) by inserting after paragraph (7) the following: `(8) who has received actual notice of the Attorney General's determination made pursuant to subsection (j) or (d)(1)(B) of section 843 of this title,'. (n) Attorney General Discretionary Denial of Federal Explosives Licenses and Permits- Section 843 of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in subsection (b), by striking `Upon' and inserting `Except as provided in subsection (j), upon'; and (2) by adding at the end the following: `(j) The Attorney General may deny the issuance of a permit or license to an applicant if the Attorney General determines that the applicant or a responsible person or employee possessor thereof is known (or appropriately suspected) to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation of, in aid of, or related to terrorism, or providing material support or resources for terrorism, and the Attorney General has a reasonable belief that the person may use explosives in connection with terrorism.'. (o) Attorney General Discretionary Revocation of Federal Explosives Licenses and Permits- Section 843(d) of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (1) by inserting `(1)' after `(d)'; (2) by striking `if in the opinion' and inserting the following: `if-- `(A) in the opinion'; and (3) by striking `. The Secretary's action' and inserting the following: `; or `(B) the Attorney General determines that the licensee or holder (or any responsible person or employee possessor thereof) is known (or appropriately suspected) to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism, or providing material support or resources for terrorism, and that the Attorney General has a reasonable belief that the person may use explosives in connection with terrorism. `(2) The Attorney General's action'. (p) Attorney General's Ability To Withhold Information in Explosives License and Permit Denial and Revocation Suits- Section 843(e) of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in paragraph (1), by inserting after the first sentence the following: `However, if the denial or revocation is based upon an Attorney General determination under subsection (j) or (d)(1)(B), any information which the Attorney General relied on for this determination may be withheld from the petitioner if the Attorney General determines that disclosure of the information would likely compromise national security.'; and (2) in paragraph (2), by adding at the end the following: `In responding to any petition for review of a denial or revocation based upon an Attorney General determination under subsection (j) or (d)(1)(B), the United States may submit, and the court may rely upon, summaries or redacted versions of documents containing information the disclosure of which the Attorney General has determined would likely compromise national security.'. (q) Ability To Withhold Information in Communications to Employers- Section 843(h)(2) of title 18, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in subparagraph (A), by inserting `or in subsection (j) of this section (on grounds of terrorism)' after `section 842(i)'; and (2) in subparagraph (B)-- (A) in the matter preceding clause (i), by inserting `or in subsection (j) of this section,' after `section 842(i),'; and (B) in clause (ii), by inserting `, except that any information that the Attorney General relied on for a determination pursuant to subsection (j) may be withheld if the Attorney General concludes that disclosure of the information would likely compromise national security' after `determination'. (r) Conforming Amendment to Immigration and Nationality Act- Section 101(a)(43)(E)(ii) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(43)(E)(ii)) is amended by striking `or (5)' and inserting `(5), or (10)'. (s) Guidelines- (1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall issue guidelines describing the circumstances under which the Attorney General will exercise the authority and make determinations under subsections (d)(1)(B) and (j) of section 843 and sections 922A and 922B of title 18, United States Code, as amended by this Act. (2) CONTENTS- The guidelines issued under paragraph (1) shall-- (A) provide accountability and a basis for monitoring to ensure that the intended goals for, and expected results of, the grant of authority under subsections (d)(1)(B) and (j) of section 843 and sections 922A and 922B of title 18, United States Code, as amended by this Act, are being achieved; and (B) ensure that terrorist watch list records are used in a manner that safeguards privacy and civil liberties protections, in accordance with requirements outlines in Homeland Security Presidential Directive 11 (dated August 27, 2004).



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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the GOV wants your gun


I don't have a gun.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:37 PM
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I’m good with US citizens having weapons, any type. The coming revolution collapse whatever you want to call it….
When guns were taken from Australians violent home invasions went to crazy levels, and they regret them ever being taken away.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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Your figures are innaccurate,they were shown to be a hoax already.
The Cartels cannot obtain the kind of weapons they are carrying on the US civilian market...period!
Or perhaps you know a US gun shop which sells SK handgrenades, or machine guns from around the world in all calibers....?
I thought not.
The weapons which they are getting in Mexico come from international arms trafficking,and are military in nature.
Civilians can not get these to re sell to the cartels, they have to buy them from the BATF, the DEA, the Mexican army, and the deserters from same.
These are baseless figures that were fraudulently issued by the BATF i believe and misconscrued by the MSM.
It would apeear that Mexico has far greater gun crimes going on than the US.With weapons that are not available in the states.
There is evidence of BATF incompetance, and collusion with the narco traffickers too.
Wake up!



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceAssassin
 
could you post a link to the actual doc, my zoom does not work on ATS, thanks



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by stirling
 


Very interesting. Would you mind pointing me to your source? This would clarify a lot for me.

My searches only result in DEA, BATF, and blog statistics. Granted I have not taken much time to research, but your suggestions would be appreciated as anyones would be.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by Steve8511
 


Funny you should say that back a while ago I read an article that said that the murder rate jumped like 600% after they took everyones guns.Actually it also said that ,that is what happened every time a country has taken citizens guns away.Because then only the criminals have guns and they know you don't.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceAssassin
 


these days if you believe in "mainstream conspiracy theories" or belong to a militia your a terrorist.

Then again I'd love to see them try and take guns away from the militia's. It would be an act of monumental stupidity



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by Marulo
reply to post by bekod
 


Just out curiosity,

How do you feel about the fact that the United States has 8 times more gun related crimes than any other economic counterpart? "The laws are made for law abiding citizens if you are not law abiding the law means noting to you unless that law makes you one"

Do you see any correlation between that fact and that the United States has some of the loosest gun regulations? "No, i think they are strict enough"

How do you feel about our loose regulations supplying Mexican Cartels with nearly four fifths of their arsenal? "These weapons are full auto and of Mil type we can not own, sell, buy, with out an FFL License" not very many have one and if the do sell to the gen public then they are in a world of trouble, only to be as a collector, gun smith, or police mil sales"

I am merely seeking your opinions "my opinions are in (" ) marks



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:50 PM
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If they outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns and
i will be one of them



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by bekod
yes they are at it once again S 34, Denying firearms and Explosives to dangerous terrorist act of 2011 here is the video, he tells it a lot better that i can, does the name Se Frank Launtenberg mean any thing ? It should. www.youtube.com... and if your are wondering i am a NRA member and i do get the news letter and up to date laws and laws they GOV what to change to take away your 2nd Amendment right thought you would like to know.


If they want my guns, please explain why I can go into any warlmart, sporting goods store, gun shop or gun show and still buy pistols, shotguns and military style weapons and the ammunition to go with them. Wouldn't you think they would stop gun sales if they really wanted to "take my guns".

I'm also a lifetime NRA member.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by Steve8511
 


Well that is certainly an interesting development. Banning guns is certainly not an option these days. Makes me wonder what sort of environmental and genetic factors cause crime.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceAssassin
 





here is the bill, shouldn't infringe on your rights unless you are a terrorist unless i missed something.


With Napolitano calling everyone a "terrorist" who voices an opinion it sure as heck WILL infringe on my rights!



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by bekod
 


Thank you for your feedback.

Although would you mind clarifying your response to the first question? I do not quite understand



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 06:56 PM
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reply to post by stirling
 

how true some of the things people believe, just because they are told so and are not willing to search on the web net for them selves, it would be nice to be able to have a full auto just think what this county would be like, wonder if it would be like Mexico? what is the country that you can have a full auto Swiss or Norway ?



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by bekod

Originally posted by Marulo
reply to post by bekod
 


Just out curiosity,

How do you feel about the fact that the United States has 8 times more gun related crimes than any other economic counterpart? "The laws are made for law abiding citizens if you are not law abiding the law means noting to you unless that law makes you one"

Do you see any correlation between that fact and that the United States has some of the loosest gun regulations? "No, i think they are strict enough"

How do you feel about our loose regulations supplying Mexican Cartels with nearly four fifths of their arsenal? "These weapons are full auto and of Mil type we can not own, sell, buy, with out an FFL License" not very many have one and if the do sell to the gen public then they are in a world of trouble, only to be as a collector, gun smith, or police mil sales"

I am merely seeking your opinions "my opinions are in (" ) marks
most country's are more civil than we yes i am saying that if we sent all of our bad people to the UK they the UK would not stand a chance, most of your bad men do not have guns let a lone us them for what i have been able to find, or could it be that all your LEOS carry Full AUTO?.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by Steve8511
 
yet you are to feel safe knowing you can not defend your self or your property, i feel for you, there is no NRA down under?



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by Marulo
 





How do you feel about the fact that the United States has 8 times more gun related crimes than any other economic counterpart?


I feel that it was a mistake to open the doors of the mental institutions and kick the inmates out on the street.



Mental healthcare experienced a revolution at the mid-point of the twentieth century with the availability of the first anti-psychotic medications..... In this heady environment, a social movement came into being with the goal of deinstitutionalizing the mentally ill. This movement found expression in critical state and federal supreme court decisions supporting patient rights. Numerous state hospitals were shut down as a result, and previously institutionalized patients were released to live in society with the assistance of the newly created community mental health centers (CMHCs) built in most communities as a result of the 1963 US Federal Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act. The CMHCs continue to be the dominant source of front line care for most schizophrenic patients in America today. Only the most severely disabled patients are maintained in state institutions anymore.

.... the initially adequate funding for the CMHCs has eroded over the years to the point where many struggle to simply provide minimal critical service... www.mentalhelp.net...



...in O'Connor v. Donaldson, 422 U.S. 563, 575–76 (1975), the United States Supreme Court has suggested that inability to take care of oneself cannot be considered a sufficient finding of dangerousness unless survival is at stake...

The United States Supreme Court decisions of Youngberg v. Romeo, 102 S.Ct. 2452, U.S.Pa.,1982, Mills v. Rogers, 102 S.Ct. 2442 (1982) and Rennie v. Klein, 102 S.Ct. 3506 (Mem), U.S.,1982, have been widely interpreted as holding that federal constitutional safeguards involving a person's right to refuse psychiatric medications...


Now compare that to the exponential rise in U.S. incarceration rate. GRAPH

The rise corresponds to the release of mentally ill people and has nothing to do with gun ownership at all. Actually Gun ownership has gone DOWN as the U.S. incarceration rate has risen!



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