The Paradoxical Lucid Dream

Hey everyone... just thought I'd share a dream I had last night that really has my mind boggling...

I had gotten off a bus with a group of friends in a suburb, and I was talking with one of them.

I told her that she (or maybe we?) was dreaming, and that when she realizes this, she will become lucid. I told her that when she becomes lucid, she has to stay focused and she can change her dream-scape if she does so and avoids waking up.

The paradox, is that I was not lucid- The dream went on like a regular dream, ending with me getting into a UFC-styled fight with a giant gorilla.

I was telling her about how we were in a dream and she could control it, but I failed to realize the dream myself. I was aware of it and not aware of it at the same time.

Is that not weird... or is my dreaming-self just retarded in some way?

Pretty cool...it's like an inverse lucid dream or something...strictly speaking its not paradoxical from a logical point of view but I know what you are getting at. Thanks for sharing.

I've thought before about twists on the lucid dreaming model. For exapmple, what would you call it if you thought you were having a lucid dream but were mistaken and were really awake?

Seems to me you where trying to tell yourself in the dream world that you where dreaming, ie, the rationale behind explaining this to your friend in your dream state. Wouldn't call it a paradox, but maybe a helpful in dream realization to help you dream lucidly more? Any difference in sleep post regular dream and lucid? Could be a trigger.

On side note about lucid dreams concerning myself. Have found with current lucid dreams I find myself going deeper into a dream state. Think, "Inception," multi-level dream reality. Have been experiencing this more lately. I'm lucid dreaming, realize this and go deeper down, to where I originally don't know am dreaming, but figure it out, and dive deeper down the hole. To wake up from that for me is truly mesmerizing. I've been asleep for 90 minutes in the state, but feel like it's been a whole night, and I'm bright eyed.

Originally posted by silent thunder
Pretty cool...it's like an inverse lucid dream or something...strictly speaking its not paradoxical from a logical point of view but I know what you are getting at. Thanks for sharing.

Ya I wasn't quite sure how to describe it- I thought paradoxical because my brain feels the same way thinking of this dream the way it does when it thinks about stuff like time travel.

I've thought before about twists on the lucid dreaming model. For exapmple, what would you call it if you thought you were having a lucid dream but were mistaken and were really awake?

Actually, there was a time this happened to me. Sometimes when I wake up and get out of bed real fast, I am literally half asleep, and have trouble realizing that I'm awake. One time, this happened at the very start of a dream that became lucid. My alarm clock woke me up, and I hopped out of bed and went to the bathroom, literally thinking that I was still having my lucid dream for about 10 seconds. It was pretty shocking when I realized I was awake.

A different lucid-dreaming-take I thought of, which could be somewhat of an answer to my dream, is what if you had dream where you thought you were lucid, but this was just part of the dream- you really weren't lucid, you were just dreaming about being lucid?

Trippy stuff

reply to post by I.T.S.U.


Well actually when I get into a lucid dream, it is usually because I notice something wrong with the environment I'm in. Most recent one was that I was driving in my town, and noticed how sunny and green everything was. I thought about what happened to all the snow and deadness that used to be there, and then I became lucid.

Other times, the trigger usually has to do with me realizing the architecture or map-layout of a familiar area I'm in is wrong. I am really good at remembering directions and the layouts of buildings (I have literally never been lost before), so if something is out of place, something isn't right.

I've thought that maybe the dream I just had was some kind of latent desire manifesting itself in the form that I want myself to have lucid dreams, that I tell myself I want them, but lately they just haven't been happening.

Originally posted by Monts
what if you had dream where you thought you were lucid, but this was just part of the dream- you really weren't lucid, you were just dreaming about being lucid?

Trippy stuff

What's really trippy is me finding this thread. I was just thinking the EXACT same thing like 2 hours ago. At the risk of sounding a little stupid the thing that came to my mind is, if you aren't really lucid but you're dreaming that you are, doesn't that still mean you're lucid to some degree?

I dunno, that's never happened to me but I have had a few lucid dreams. I also had one that was partially lucid which was odd to me... Everything in the dream(s) seemed linear, as opposed to "jumping down a level." I only went through the induction process once (I have to fight the fade to black) but at times the dream would flow like a normal one with no input from me, and at other times I had full control of my own actions / thoughts and a level of control over anything I felt like manipulating, but not as much control as I usually have in a lucid dream. Not that I'm an expert or anything, I've only had about 4 fully lucid dreams.. of course not counting this one and my first which was instant fade to black.

Originally posted by Monts
I've thought that maybe the dream I just had was some kind of latent desire manifesting itself in the form that I want myself to have lucid dreams, that I tell myself I want them, but lately they just haven't been happening.

You may have hit the nail on the head. Your brain knows you want to have a lucid dream, and you know the facts about lucid dreaming, you just aren't having one. At the same time, almost like your brain was subconsciously trying to cause you to have a lucid dream (I think someone said this) It makes perfect sense, but dreaming about dreaming and what state you may or may not be in just gets confusing all around!

I can sympathize though. I've been strangely void of dreams lately. I used to remember 1-3 dreams in good detail every morning, now it seems like it's one in crappy detail, once or twice a week I haven't had a lucid dream in probably close to a year, I'd be happy with any kind of dream right now...

My advice is keep on the same path you're on. If you're dreaming about lucid dreaming, that shows that it's important to you and you're putting in some effort. IMO half the battle is devoting mental space to the concept of lucid dreaming. Think about it, review your plan for method of induction (or try a new one), meditate on it, and it should only be a matter of time before you reach what you're looking for. My inductions have been varied, mostly it has been noticing some minor "error" in the dream that I'd probably overlook even in real life, and in my best and most detailed LD I simply paused mid-dream and said "I'm dreaming!" for no apparent reason, and it took off from there.

S&F for thought provoking topic.

yes, i could give you a few options to pick from

#1. maybe like the previous poster said, you know what a lucid dream is, but have not have one, it might have been a part of you that was telling you ~**your NOT having a lucid dream right now, but as soon as you realize it you can control it.**~ unfortunately you never realized that you were talking to yourself. and so, you never gained control of it, you just woke up. But its the state between dreaming and being fully awake that is a lucid dream, many people who experience lucid dreams, it comes to them by accident, others have the intention of having a lucid dream, not going over well, but over time, they have them stronger and stronger lucidness and more often.

reminds me when i was a child i had alot of dreams like that, over time i felt more in control of my dreams, even saying "ahhh this is just a dream watch me fly." your dream reminds me of one of my VERY first times i took control of a dream, but remember, taking control of a dream, and dreaming while you are awake are not the same thing, but its all part of the same path towards enlightenment.

I was running from a swarm of bees, i was so scared then i heard this is LOUD VOICE said "freeze the picture" and i was frozen in place and a bee was on my leg, and he was frozen too. then the voice said "wake up Vlena" and i woke up.

#2 dimensional traveling , it does happen, you might have actually went into someone else dream and taught them something. There is more to us, then only this world. we actually ONLY see like .01% of everything around us. Its a fact that this world, isn't everything we think it is,
and its a fact that you have a connection to the one true all knowing source, and so is your soul. Just as you are the child of God. god is in you, and so you are like God, You are a divine human being and probably went to teach someone something you already knew, you just haven't experienced in this life, because you dont have to.

i had a dream once i traveled into another dimension, its alot easier to do then to have a lucid dream, i was there, i had no idea where i was, and a small girl came up to me and looked at me like "OMG WOW" and i was like "what the hell is she staring at me like that for." she told me i was in her dimension. and i asked her some questions, but i dont remember what she told me. she was looking at me like she would never forget me, but actually i will never forget her

and maybe you too, will never forget this dream. the best part of this world is that things both are one, and are the other too... it could be both, and it could be neither, you choose depending on your journey towards enlightenment and total control of yourself.