Key to free thinking - Unlocking the Political spectrum

Everyone here knows of the Left-Right paradigm. Infact even most here are locked into it.

"You crazy hairy lefty loony"

"You up tight conservative"

:Bloody Liberals etc etc etc etc

OK here is the back story.

First a disclaimer - Although some of the names here some consider to be questionable, other not. this is in know way an avocation of their stances. Just the message I saw, and thought about, whilst trying to unwrap the spin.

Here Goes.

I was watching a vid on You tube, by Alex Jones. In fact the latest that pop up as soon as you go on his channel. There is he crying about Glenn Beck and his watery sell-out mission to expose the NWO - except that it's lie according to AJ and only he has the "truth". OK, with me so far?

In this, I linked onto a Glen Beck Video that included a part AJ was talking about, regard George Bernard Shaw, Eugenics Fascism etc etc. The Concept that GB was stating is that Fascism, in the sense on Adolf Hitler and his Nazi Mates, are in fact COMMUNIST, the spin by GB being, look the LEFT is in fact FASCIST, not us good conservative people. HOWEVER, the academics giving the evidence in the documentary actually made good points - i.e. If the Nazi party were in fact RIGHT wing, then why were they called National SOCIALISTS!

Here are both vids just to be impartial

Alex Jones - Alex Jones

Glenn Beck - Glen Beck

This got me thinking. So far all we are used to is the 2-D linear spectrum of Politics. Left Centre Right.

So I look it up on wikipedia

this is what I get

Wikipedia

Hmmm Interesting, A Bi-Axial spectrum, Hmmm not at ALL what I am used to, further down, a more detailed but rather spartan charts. But hang on Fascism is on the RIGHT!, how can that be, GB just told me that Fascists are communists!!!!????

Ok So I look up Fascism on Wikipedia. That tells me that "Scholars" generally put fascism on the right of the spectrum, but that there is confusion as while their nationalistic views are right, their economic views are left!!

So what is really going on here.

Then it hits me. A lack of imagination, due to "right" brained people. So I decide to get some left brain thinking going on here.

Imagine the spectrum to no only be linear, or bi-linear, but cyclical (just like nature, of which we are all part) But ALSO 3 dimensional, not only 2. After all this is a 3, 4 if not more dimensional world. But for the sake of argument, lets just settle on 3 for now.

So, I have just spent the last 3 hours, drawing up this chart, cyclical in nature. and 3 Dimensional.

Just to add a personal note, for the last few months, I have been saying of my personal stance

"You know, I think I am soooo far right wing, I have come back to be left wing!!" I didn't even know what I meant. But know I think I do. The duality of people cannot pigeon hole them into one area. Just like the Yin and Yang, I have found that it is possible to be a Liberal Fascist, Of Fascist-Libertarian, and not only that but with the inverse polarity of the spectrum. So on one side you have the Liberal-Fascist (on the Right) - the ELITE and the Libertarian Fascist on the Left (Proletariat) so you end up with a yin yang counter balance affair.

Just to note that by Fascist I am not referring to racist, this is very different, and I am referring to this in the political ideology of it, and nothing more. (so PLEASE, I do not want this to degenerate into a race battle OK??)

So anyway after long though, and struggling with names of positions this is what I came up with,

Just to describe it

Centre Circle - Mainstream spectrum
Outer Circles - Intermediate, hardline positions
External Circle - Extreme Positions
Fringes - This is where people start to die!!

However I did say that this was a 3D make, so think of it like a sphere, where, as I said above, it is easy of you go far enough out, you come back around the other side!! SO from being a Social Moralist could be east to come into Orthodoxy!! who knows? it could happen! But simply I am saying it is possible for the "edges" to blend into one another just as where there is a separation in the outer areas, these could bleed into each other more, than say the mainstream would. That is why they are grey and not black. But by no means should a black line be taken as a complete demarcation.

By no means am I saying this is the be all and end all, I just hope that it starts people thinking about their true positions, and how it can be easily shown with a little research MS Paint and a bit of thought. that what we are told by TPTB, is a load of steaming horse poo!!.But In fact I accept that this might even say more about me personally than anything else! :

OK, so have a look, make suggestions for change, if you disagree, that's great, please speak up.

Try not to fight, and just have fun with it.



PS, Sorry about the graphic quality, I did say I did it on MS Paint!!

Key to free thinking - Unlocking the religious [mental] prison!!

politics/pantomime is the next step!!

Gaddafi: Barakeh Obama is friend
Drudge Report.



Libyan leader praises US president: 'He is of Muslim descent, his policy should be supported, as he now leans towards peace'

Seems to me Politics is a thing to stay out of these days...

reply to post by Caji316


That's a good start, first two replies completely off topic!!

Thanks guys!!!

reply to post by JakiusFogg


Depends if you want to look at the mickey mouse puzzle or the bigger picture??..

We've all wasted enough oxygen since JFK warned us 60 years ago!!

reply to post by WHOS READY


Well if you care to actually read an understand the post, then you will see this is an attempt to see the bigger picture.

maybe I should have created another alignment where we can put the trolls!

reply to post by JakiusFogg


i aint trollin bruv..

think of it like this,, the only reason we have the political system we have is because the elites/secret societies/vatican have used it,, its easy to manipulate, divide and conquer and all that..

here's an insight- www.abovetopsecret.com...

their politics systems are nothing but a pantomime.. we are better than their narrow mindedness!

the first step is to break out of their religious/mental prison!!

reply to post by WHOS READY


Ahh yes but everyone has a personally position of belief, which is in fact what a political spectrum is all about. Even you yourself have a political position. Like myself not a "traditional" one. But this is a start to understand,.as I said in the OP, that what TPTB show you as is their system, is horse crap, and is vastly wider than the majority of the people are led to believe.

My attempt here is as a cartographer, charting new land. to give the true scope, form and shape. Even chaos confirms to laws of nature, even if we don't understand what they are.

Re-read the post, and don't jump to conclusion about the content.

I like it. This whole left / right thing always leaves me confused with so many topics. The map you have made is 2D one, but I can start to imagine how it may manifest into a 3D picture, but will need another political spectrum to give it coherence and meaning. It is good to see how all these different political ideologies and structures relate, well done

Time to bump up.

Dont wnat it lost so quick, as there are lots of people on here I feel need to start to open there eyes to this possibility.

As regards 2D v 3D. OK yes the pic itself is 2D, but have made attemps to demonstrate 3D ishness with the bleeding from the opposite around the edges.

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
Everyone here knows of the Left-Right paradigm. Infact even most here are locked into it.

"You crazy hairy lefty loony"

"You up tight conservative"

:Bloody Liberals etc etc etc etc

OK here is the back story.

....................


"You know, I think I am soooo far right wing, I have come back to be left wing!!" I didn't even know what I meant. But know I think I do. The duality of people cannot pigeon hole them into one area. Just like the Yin and Yang, I have found that it is possible to be a Liberal Fascist, Of Fascist-Libertarian, and not only that but with the inverse polarity of the spectrum. So on one side you have the Liberal-Fascist (on the Right) - the ELITE and the Libertarian Fascist on the Left (Proletariat) so you end up with a yin yang counter balance affair.

Absolutely agree with you. I often put myself into a conservative's shoes, or I try to. I do it all the time. I do this out of respect. I'm a liberal. But I respect conservatives and their opinions. So sometimes I wonder if I'm wrong about what I believe. Sometimes I will go anonymous on the internet and pretend I'm a conservative. Why do I do it? Because I'm not sure that my liberal views are right and also because I want to understand what it's like to be a conservative and how other people respond to them. I guess I want the chance to be something I never was.

Conservatives, I feel, want freedom and fairness, but not equality. There's a difference between a fair game and an equal game. A fair game is where the rules are strict and enforced and both sides have a chance to win it just depends on how they play and a little bit on luck (bad days, good days). An equal game is one where both do well regardless of their skill. How much effort matters depends on the amount of leftism involved. Anyway, I think liberals want freedom too, but they generally feel we're our brothers keeper so they definitely fall more towards eqaulity in the sense that they want to see both sides win as opposed to the idea that the best man should win. So, straight away, freedom is allowed up to the point that it would handicap an equal game for both sides. I think these differences are the biggest differences between right and left. I don't think either is really right or wrong, it simply depends on your philosophy and goals in life. It's kind of like yin/yang.

There's greed and stupidity on the right and left and in the middle. These are universal.

reply to post by jonnywhite


Thx johnny, funny you should mention the yin / yang, as that is what I was thinking at the time of making.

Did you see the diagram? any changes you would make, or something you don;'t agree with. Would like to get to a point where we could get a con census on this, or a more or less definitive map.

unless thinking 4th dimensionally, and they the whole thing would be mutable.

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
Time to bump up.

Dont wnat it lost so quick, as there are lots of people on here I feel need to start to open there eyes to this possibility.

As regards 2D v 3D. OK yes the pic itself is 2D, but have made attemps to demonstrate 3D ishness with the bleeding from the opposite around the edges.

I don't understand what you say. You say it's like a sphere. Ok. So I picture the liberals living in China and the conservatives living on the other side of the planet in Argentina. How can one living in China somehow live in Argentina? How can one that lives in Argentina somehow live in China? That's where I'm confused. How can a liberal become a conservative by becoming an ultra liberal or vice versa? Try to explain that better. I can't picture it happening unless they dig through the earth.

It's funny that in 2011 the vast majority of people are still conditioned to vote either one of two ways in America that of a Republican or Democrat, if people truly opened them selfs up to a three dimensional sense then this would not be, we would have at least three or more legit parties that had a chance of winning, so of course your thesis on free thinking has merit but at what point do we stop going back and fourth between two parties ie two dimensional thinking to voting for a different party meaning going three dimensional????

When poeple figure that out they will have evolved and have waken up...

reply to post by jonnywhite


That is indeed corrrect. If you go far enough to the extreme of the spectrum, you get to a point (as I put on my diagram) where people start to die.

I.e. Ultra liber, will NOT accept the view point of anyone else, and in ultimate defence of this will become authoritarian in order to maintain their view points.

I don't have 3-d graphics on my computer, so spherical it is, but also not only that, i.e. on the surface, but from the core outward, where the further you move to the outer layers, the more blurred the line is between extremes.

its like the old addages,

There is a thin life between Love / hate, or Genius / Madness

reply to post by King Seesar


You have a good point.

The concept of Left v Right and Authoritarian v Libertarian as the 2 polar opposites on this scale could well be limted. However as we live in a dualistic world it's an easy concept to grasp

I have attempted to present this is a true 3D sprectrum view, however it is true that this still uses a dual polar axis, even if bi-axial.

Which other opposites could be considered?

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by King Seesar

 

You have a good point.

The concept of Left v Right and Authoritarian v Libertarian as the 2 polar opposites on this scale could well be limted. However as we live in a dualistic world it's an easy concept to grasp

I have attempted to present this is a true 3D sprectrum view, however it is true that this still uses a dual polar axis, even if bi-axial.

Which other opposites could be considered?

Well when it comes to basic good vs evil the yin and yang theory could be applied however when it comes to different topics such as politics it's not so simple because there's always a middle ground a grey area which represents three dimensional thinking, if we were truly to dumb down our selfs to two dimensional thinking we would only see two colors black and white we would never have been able to grasp the concept of many colors, and more people need to apply this theory to dimensions and you will see there is more.

reply to post by King Seesar


I am thinking, that being the case, then instead of left right, being spherical in nature, the spectrum should be NSEW on the Y Axis and Auth / Lib on the X Axis

So that each slice of the apple if you like as it gets further out to the fringe the area gets smaller, where as in the middle there is further scope for diversification. yet with the Yin Yang concept that it is possible to flip poles the further out you go

The question now then is what political traits would occupy the NSEW

Maybe

N = Egalitarism
S = Eliteism
E = Conservatism
W= Socialism

I think we're making progress