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Jared Loughner the alleged Tucson shooter - So many questions - so few answers .

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posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 07:06 AM
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www.latimes.com...


Attorneys for the suspect in the Tucson, Ariz., shooting rampage joined prosecutors in trying to bar the release of autopsy reports for the six people killed in the Jan. 8 attack.


Does anyone know the law in Arizona as to whether or not autopsy cases are released to the media before the trial starts? Most cases involving murder probably doesn't take 7 months, that's just a guess. But anyone have any knowledge or links? If they are worried that these reports will taint the jury pool, is it normal to release the reports, or is this a special request to block the reports? If they had the trial yesterday these problems about tainting the jury pool would be solved. They have the evidence, they have the confession letter, what's the hold up?

So now the prosecutors and defense both want the autopsy reports to be hidden. I always thought the jobs of the prosecution and defense were to argue with each other, not agree with each other. I guess it's a given that the Judge would bar the release of the reports if both sides want it that way.
edit on 3-3-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 08:29 AM
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I wonder if in 40 years Loughner will be facing parole like Sirhan Sirhan saying "I don't remember anything" and the parole board saying "rejected, not remorseful enough".



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by filosophia
I wonder if in 40 years Loughner will be facing parole like Sirhan Sirhan saying "I don't remember anything" and the parole board saying "rejected, not remorseful enough".


I think Loughner will be dead in 2 years max , IF that is Loughner they have in solitary confinement .
From what were being told it looks like we will never see hard proof of anything .



posted on Mar, 3 2011 @ 09:33 PM
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The autopsy results will be released Monday:

www.ajc.com...
Bruce Parks, Pima County's chief medical examiner, said he intends on Monday afternoon to release the autopsy reports that his office produced in the case.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 07:20 AM
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Originally posted by starviego
The autopsy results will be released Monday:

www.ajc.com...
Bruce Parks, Pima County's chief medical examiner, said he intends on Monday afternoon to release the autopsy reports that his office produced in the case.




WELL found bro ! I guess we wil see what gets revealed , assuming its not falsified .
Remember they have to account for every bullet and we know Giffords only got shot once .

Peace



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 08:50 AM
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www.latimes.com...

This is a strange one. But first I'd like to point out the title "Loughner asks judge..."

But Loughner is not saying this, his prosecutors are. The first line of the article states "Attorneys for the suspect in the Tucson, ..."

Loughner didn't speak at his hearing, and his attorney Judy Clarke put in the plea of not guilty.

But back to the article. The article says that the attorneys for Loughner are asking the judge to prohibit confidential medical records to prosecutors. Let's see how the judge reacts. So far

-The judge allowed the new mug shot to be released despite pleas for the suspect's privacy.
-Both sides want the autopsy report hidden, Judge Burns has not ruled on that yet
-Now will the Judge rule in favor of the suspect's privacy or ignore it and allow the medical records that may prove he is certifiably psychotic.

The article is also wrong about how many were wounded.
edit on 4-3-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 08:56 AM
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www.nytimes.com...

This article says that a medical examiner is planning on releasing the autopsy reports unless ordered by the judge not to do so. I don't think the judge has made a ruling yet on that, but they better act quick before the autopsy reports get leaked to the media. So far both the prosecution and defense want these reports kept secret, so for the media to get that would be a huge disaster for their MKULTRA case, I'm expecting a quick decision from the judge, but if not we can at least get some information on the victims and how they died. Most importantly how many bullets were fired and if they came from the same gun.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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www.sify.com...

I spoke too soon on that last post. The judge is allowing the autopsy reports to be released to the media. That seems like a big surprise to me, considering both sides wanted it to be blocked.
edit on 4-3-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 09:03 AM
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www.bloomberg.com...

So Judge Larry Burns is allowing the autopsy reports to be released to the media, but he won't unseal the search warrant? If the FBI needs to make an additional investigation they could more than likely get another search warrant. What does the secrecy of the search warrant have to do with the case? That is I think highly unconstitutional since search warrants are part of the bill of rights, where the items or persons wished to be confiscated must be indicated as to where precisely they are, so that means not snooping around or going through his computer hard drive, and now the search warrant is "sealed" for some mysterious purpose? No way, that is unconstitutional.

"he would consider a new bid to unseal the records and indicated he would lean toward disclosing them, with some information redacted."

Makes no sense, if they must wait for March 8 while the jury meets why redact after this meeting?
edit on 4-3-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by filosophia
 


Lets talk about the autopsy , What do you expect to see ?

Obviously this is where the alleged rifle could come into play but thats assuming they haven't tampered with the facts .
To many things seem fake about this case ,
Which is why I think they may falsify them and make sure they concur with the official account .
Will be able to clarify that all shots did not miss ?



posted on Mar, 5 2011 @ 07:14 PM
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Thanks Doomzilla for posting this thread. I've done some keyboard sleuthing since the Giffords Shooting and have come to a number of conclusions - which will have to suffice until more filters through about what really went down. Here are in summary my preliminary comments.


1. Jared Lee Loughner is either not a real existing individual, with much of his past history and official entourage fictionally created and 'maintained' over time, or he has been replaced by doubles. One person in the doppelganger forums who suggest he never really existed has counted SIX separate Jared Lee Loughners who cannot be the same individual. As for myself I have noted that the person arrested is not the person detained. Whether either of them was originally born under the identity of Jared is not known.

Amateur Forensic Analysis of Jared Loughner Mugshots


2. NASA is involved, directly or indirectly. NASA was founded by the NAZI scientists tied into the occult, proponents of turning the world over to a Super Race, involved with 'non human' entities as per Hitler's own admission, censoring Space Information, and either concealing or faking an Alien Presence and possibly both. The NAZIS were involved with extensive shocking research on Twins. After World War Two NAZI scientist Josef Mengele went on to create entire villages of twins in Latin America. Giffords husband Mark Kelly is one of two identical twin NASA Astronauts. His twin brother Scott Kelly was alone manning the International Space Station when the event occurred.

Nazi angel of death Josef Mengele 'created twin town in Brazil'


3. The CIA was created by the Dulles brothers along with James Angleton and Frank Wisner Sr. They founded this Intelligence Agency which replaced the OSI, transposing to the United States Hitler's Chief Military Intelligence Officer - Abwehr General Reinhard Gehlen - and his entire network of Nazi Intelligence Operatives. Hitler's Spy Organization penetrated permanently the United States government through this means, before moving back to the I.G. Farben headquarters building in Frankfurt to run the CIA's international operations. Today this organization is not run by the White House but by an Above Top Secret Nazi Continuum Agency called the DVD which is appropriately headquartered at Dachau in Bavaria, the site of the very first NAZI "concentration camp for political prisoners' according to Heinrich Himmler .

After WWII, in parallel to his work on twins, Josef Mengele and a number of Nazi Psy-Ops Scientists spearheaded the CIA's MK Ultra Mind Controlled Assassins program, known as Manchurian Candidates. The Giffords Shooting bears all the hallmarks of an MK Ultra scripted incident. We will also note Jared's alleged Youtube videos ranting against Mind Control, and there is also a characteristic 'double blind' swap of the actual mind controlled killer - who might be compelled to speak under hypnosis - for a different person who has been brainwashed to believe they are murderer but who has nothing relevant to reveal making them the ideal patsy to take the fall.

JOSEF MENGELE, DR. GREEN, AND THE AMERICAN MIND CONTROL NETWORK


4. James Angleton, not content with helping create the CIA with the NAZIS and creating the BND run by the same gang of former NAZI war criminals, also designed and founded Israel's MOSSAD. This cannot be understood if you believe even half of what those running the world from behind the scenes feed to the public. That the same people furthering the NAZI movement are at the apex of the Israeli regime points to the fact that there is a great subterfuge, and that something treasonous has been perpetrated against the Jewish people which is dangerously contrary to the interests of the Israeli citizens. This situation is similar to the NAZI Infiltration of the US Administration and Spy agencies. A Zionist Infiltration of most of Israel's institutions, of the Israeli Knesset and Supreme Court as well as the Mossad, has compromised the national security of that nation. We can note a generalized betrayal of the populations of these nations by those usurping positions of power, tantamount to HIGH TREASON.


Google Video Link


5. Numerous people among those involved in the Giffords Shooting were / are involved in the CIA's Mind Control programs, namely through Cornell's department of 'Human Ecology' which is apparently short for how to recycle the human mind? This is the case of both persons who allegedly brought 9 year-old Christina Green to her sacrificial death 119 days after her 9th birthday on 9/11. Giffords herself studied 'Regional Management' at Cornell which coordinates very well with the UN's Agenda 21 where the USA will become regionally administered under a forthcoming global totalitarian government. The presence of a Frankist Sabbatean OCCULT ritual child sacrifice - namely the murder of a child born during the earlier 9/11 sacrificial killing - may be revealing of who has "SIGNED" this crime? Itbrings together in a single event the NAZI founded NASA through Giffords' twin astronaut connection and the NAZI founded CIA MK Ultra brainwashed assassin program. Giffords also happens to Chair the Congressional Space Management Commission with oversight of all Spatial Affairs including NASA and the rest of the Aerospace Industry with commercial spaceflight currently undergoing massive privatization.

Did the Sabbatean/Frankist Global Elite Kill JFK?


6. This incident also brought into play two controversial persons politically speaking. Both Giffords and Judge Roll whose life ended during the event - shot either by the pistol wielding gunman or by another person positioned with a sniper's rifle on the roof of the Safeway store (the Sheriff's department reported finding the rifle, critical information which wasn't relayed by the press). Giffords had recently succeeded in obtaining half a billion dollars in funding to protect the Arizona border against incursions from the Mexican drug cartels. Tucson where the event took place is directly North of the most controversial border in the USA. This is something which would have been a problem for the CIA which imports drugs from Latin America through this border for distribution in the USA and Canada. Judge Roll was himself successful in opposing measures to ban gun ownership, something which is part of the New World Order plans to disarm and corral citizens into submission. He was also aware of certain areas of corruption in the Democratic Party, making him somebody several parties could have been motivated to assassinate.

Sheriff's Deputy Rich Kastigar: a rifle with an extended magazine was found at the scene


7. Pima Community College where it has been alleged that Jared Lee Loughner attended school is also a place which is highly suspect. Dean Nancee Sorenson who has now become Vice-President of Pima Community College might be related to a key witness in Jared's classroom. Lynda Sorenson was a former prison psychiatric employee and was working in a mental institution at the time she was Jared's 52 year-old classmate. Her actions in class were cited as having contributed to Jared being cited by the college police. It is conceivable that she was part of a scheme to frame Jared with trumped charges to create a factitious history of mentally instability. She conveniently kept a record of her findings in 'email chronicles'.

Lynda Sorenson Chronicled Jared Loughner’s Behavior In E-Mails

Nancee Sorenson at Pima


8. Pima Community College Math teacher Ben McGahee is himself not very apt at communicating convincingly nor composed in his television interviews about Jared. He seems contrived in his testimony, extremely nervous as well as being quite cocky. He blatantly lied on television about Jared having alluded to Mayhem Fair as revealing a will to harm others in violent acts. Ben McGahee brought up this concern with campus police who promptly informed him that it was merely a harmless reference to a Music Concert Tour called by that exact name, scheduled to come to Arizona a few weeks later. He nonetheless failed to explain this in his TV interview, instead implying Jared was calling for mayhem. Ben McGahee deliberately misrepresented the truth, an act commonly called "telling a lie". This is why in court you are asked to tell "The Truth, ALL the Truth, nothing but the Truth. Ben McGahee told some of the truth, omitted important facts and also added his own spin to the story.

Jared Loughner's Teacher Ben McGahee Feared for His Life


9. The Chief of Police of Pima Community College happens to have a last name which is identical to that of a border town close to Mexico directly between Tucson and Nogales. Commander Manny Amado might be from Amado Arizona, close to the border? This is where the Cartels bring in the drugs to the USA for delivery to a dedicated CIA task force.



We can legitimately ask ourselves if he was born there and whether he has any connections with the Mexican Drug Cartels or the CIA drug runners. If so, may he have been involved in masking a Political HIT against Giffords, a lawmaker whose legislation was making trouble for their business? Analysis of the frequency, absence of valid basis and attitude of this officer and his campus police force 27 strong can be established by studying the incident reports which never led to his arrest or condemnation for any infraction. Note that Jared is each time described as having BLUE eyes, something to be remembered when looking at the Mugshot of the man arrested for the Giffords shooting, whose photo was released immediately after the incident.

Jared Loughner's Pima Community College Police Incident Reports


The list just goes on and on. It becomes fastidious to count all the inconsistencies, countertruths, implausible fabrications and contradictory false testimony about this incident and its peripheral epiphenomena. It has all the earmarks of a bad crime novel, and as such is considered to be potentially entirely fabricated with many aspects of the case either staged or invented. Making what is true and what is a lie difficult to ascertain, especially if almost nothing actually happened as it is said to have happened.


What gives? Who knows? We can bank on only one fact: we'll probably never get to the bottom of this rabbit hole.


GS



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 06:28 AM
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reply to post by Getsmart
 


Great research GS .
If you remember what I said about the internet evidence I said that its possibly fake and planted .
I'm in the process of locating an episode of 24 that shows a guy being set up and framed using fake internet activity .
Will post it here when I find it .
Peace to you GS .



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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www.washingtonpost.com...

So Loughner kills 6, wounds 13, most people would add that up to be 19, but not the feds, they add it up to be 49+46=95


employing a novel legal argument, prosecutors persuaded a federal grand jury to indict him on 46 new charges, on the theory that the shootings occurred on protected federal ground, as if it happened in Congress.


Didn't the shootings occur at a grocery store? So grocery stores are now protected federal ground? I would think all areas in America are protected by the law, but this is more double standards to have normal ground and protected ground, shouldn't it all be protected ground?



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 09:05 PM
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www.washingtonpost.com...

count 5:


Jared Lee Loughner, did, with premeditation...kill John M. Roll


Hold on a second, I thought Roll was an unintended target? No one knew he would be there? And the video supposedly shows Roll jumping in front of another man, taking a bullet for another man. So, that wouldn't be premeditation then, right?



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by Doomzilla
reply to post by filosophia
 


Lets talk about the autopsy , What do you expect to see ?

Obviously this is where the alleged rifle could come into play but thats assuming they haven't tampered with the facts .
To many things seem fake about this case ,
Which is why I think they may falsify them and make sure they concur with the official account .
Will be able to clarify that all shots did not miss ?


well considering they are saying he used a glock 9 mm, the autopsy should reveal that everyone killed or injured was done with a glock 9, otherwise the entire case falls apart. But I'm guessing the autopsy will be heavily redacted.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 09:14 PM
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www.washingtonpost.com...

so basically what this looks like is this

count 1: JLL kills Person X
count 2: JLL used a glock 9 to kill person X
count 3: JLL kills person Y
count 4: JLL used a glock 9 to kill person Y
etc, etc

So in other words they are charging him with the murder or injury for each person, plus the use of a glock 9 for the murder or injury of each person. However, if 6 people were murdered and 13 were injured, isn't that only 19+19=38? Where the get 90+ is beyond me. It's also a bit odd that the jury seems very, very sure that he used a glock 9 mm to kill these people, giving him over 20 counts of using this particular weapon. On what proof? Did they see the autopsy reports already? How do they know he used a glock 9?



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by Getsmart
 


if a rifle was found, that is proof positive that Loughner did not act alone with a glock pistol. The autopsy ought to reveal this, which is why it is so odd that the autopsy reports are being released (despite the pleas from both the defense and prosecution to bar the autopsy photos). Perhaps Judge Burns is not entirely "in the know" so they'll have to fake the autopsies in some way. Expect some sort of nonsense from these autopsy reports, and if they are being released so soon, there will be more than likely some type of mistake made due to the haste of having to fake the reports so quickly.



posted on Mar, 6 2011 @ 09:52 PM
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www.washingtonpost.com...

I could start a thread just on how ridiculous these counts are, but I'd rather keep all the information in one thread to dissuade the antagonists.

From the report:

Causing death through the use of a fire arm: counts 7, 10, 17, 20,23, 26,29. If you count that, it adds up to 7. 7 counts of causing death. But he only killed 6, so what gives?

Apparently count 7 and count 17 are the same!

count 7: murder of John M. Roll
count 17: murder of John M. Roll

The wordings are identical. So they are basically doubling up counts of murder against Loughner, which is obvious from the front page since 7 people did not die.

It seems like the charges are so ridiculous that even a pre-law student could most likely get most of these charges dropped. Why, if Loughner is charged with murdering federal employees, and facing the death penalty, would the jury care so much about charging him over 20 times with the use of a glock 9, and specifically mention a glock 9? It must be to set a precedent against semi-automatic pistols. otherwise, why not just go with the big charge of MURDER which results in death penalty, and forget these minor counts that are duplicated over 20 times. That seems like a distraction from the obvious charges that would lead to the death penalty.

In addtion: count 15 is either a lie or it means the "official media story" of Roll is a lie


intimidate and interfere with John M. Roll. because he was and had
been participating in and enjoying a beneit, service, privilege. program, facility, and activity
provided and administered by the United States


The wording is very vague, did Roll participate in the event? Or just enjoy it? Because the official story was that Roll was there unintentionally, not on official business (Obama even mentions this which worried prosecutors that they may not be able to charge this since he was there for personal reasons rather than federal reasons). So someone is lying: if Roll was there on a whim, then he was not on official duty. Furthermore, if he was there on a whim, it could not be premeditated which these charges seem to claim.

Again, why complicate matters when Loughner obviously (supposedly) murdered people and therefore would deserve the death penalty? Why place 90+ charges against him, most could be easily dismissed due to the redundancy of the counts, and why risk getting the charges for Roll dropped if Roll was there on personal whims rather than official business?



posted on Mar, 7 2011 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by filosophia
 


Like you say its confusing . They are saying that some of these counts will probably get thrown out so I dont know why they didnt stick to tangibles .
I thought the autopsy results were due today ?
Loughner is due on court on wednesday , I bet he/ Clarke pleads not guilty again .



posted on Mar, 7 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by Doomzilla
 


I don't see any autopsy results either, I'll keep checking today

Prosecution wants Loughner's handwriting sample

www.waff.com...


Attorneys for Jared Lee Loughner have told a federal judge that their client shouldn't have to provide a sample because he's willing to look at the writings and perhaps agree that he wrote them. They also have argued that compelling Loughner to provide a writing sample violates his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.


So guys, if Loughner was replaced, it would make sense for the attorneys to not want a handwriting sample so that the plant/double could just say that he wrote the letters (the letters were in a locked safe so why bother writing a confession and then putting it in a safe?). The attorney says it violates his fifth amendment to produce handwriting samples, but only if he chooses to remain silent. If he is willing to agree that he wrote the letters he is waiving his fifth amendment right by speaking. Makes no sense.

They are also trying to keep records sealed shut of him talking to psychologists, this could be an agent talking to the duplicate Loughner giving him the top secret plans for what he is supposed to say. Otherwise, if the psychologist thought he was insane why shouldn't the court be able to look at that, since it happened in prison and was not his personal doctor. I'm thinking this "psychologist" perhaps had a "talk" with Loughner or the clone and told him the next steps of the plan.




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