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Jared Loughner the alleged Tucson shooter - So many questions - so few answers .

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posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:24 AM

Originally posted by filosophia
reply to post by Getsmart

hey man, doom has a message for you. doom = GhostViking on GLP, look for the thread on Brian Hewlett
I thought that was him! I have been trying to read through that thread over there. Thanks! (I know this was not addressed to me, but I had to jump in anyway!)

posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 03:14 AM

Originally posted by filosophia

hey man, doom has a message for you. doom = GhostViking on GLP, look for the thread on Brian Hewlett

Hi, Thanks Filosophia ! Went there to join in, and will contribute. GS

posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 04:52 PM

Just an update to add...........

posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 12:32 PM
It's my suspicion that John McCarthy Roll is perhaps more of the target than Gabrielle Giffords, and that there is forensic evidence that Roll died at the scene of internal bleeding. Here is some more information on a thread I started

posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 10:12 PM
reply to post by filosophia

Hi Filosophia,

I just joined your new thread, we'll see how it develops. Some folks at Godlikeproductions did some research on him so you might want to run a search there. Also I met Doomzilla over there so I am less shocked at his banning from here at least no longer being shut down in our ongoing discussions. So I'll post here again even though the OP got the boot.


posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 08:23 AM

All of Arizona's federal judges recused themselves from the case because one of the victims, Judge John Roll, was their colleague.

According to NPR, all of the arizona federal judges recused themselves from the case. According to, there are 25 federal judges for the state of Arizona, and because they all knew Roll, the job has been given to Larry Burns, district of southern California.

So what's the story with Larry Burns?

NPR calls him a no-nonsense judge, but he wanted a psych evaluation just because Loughner smiled. Is that no-nonsense? I think that's the opposite of no-nonsense: someone can smile and get their trial postponed

edit on 15-4-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-4-2011 by filosophia because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 08:20 PM
Hi Filosophia,

Your instincts are right that we must focus on Judge Roll, and your interest in him brought me to do some more research. I have recently come to a major BREAKTHROUGH in the Giffords Shootings, but since ATS has unfairly banned the original OP of this thread, namely Doomzilla, I have posted this important SCOOP in another forum where he had to seek refuge.

This is clearly to the detriment of ATS members worldwide who, because of said action, must now go outside of ATS to find this information and continue on with their Truthseeking research. So that they are not entirely shut out of the loop, I am offering a link to the announcement of that Breakthrough which came first in that other forum instead of ATS, and this only so that members here who also miss our former ATS friend Doomzilla might join in with him in discussing there the incredible revelation that...

Judge Roll was Adolf Hitler's biological son !

Link to outside thread presenting evidence to this fact


edit on 16-4-2011 by Getsmart because: World War Two has not yet ended ! ! !

posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 08:55 PM

They are very similar looking. And it's interesting how very little is known about his parents except he was raised Roman Catholic. And the rabbit hole gets deeper !

They must have been worried about him for some reason and had to take him out, and the Giffords drama was a distraction. Now the are trying to ignore the issue almost as Giffords is not recovering like they hoped and very little is shown of her. And with the trial being pushed back to September (if not 2013 like the defense wants) people will lose interest by then. I think they have to balance the public not getting too interested with the need to pass gun legislation while the story is hot. One thing for sure though is that the only thing we can trust is the media is not telling us the full story.

posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 09:11 PM
reply to post by Getsmart

great research getsmart, I knew just because the media was ignoring it that Roll had to have played a deeper role (whoa, word coincidence) then they originally intended it to be. Since I'm on the topic, let's not forget how mnemonic and symbolic the elite are. Loughner is the "loner", Roll plays a deeper "role", Gabrielle Giffords (GG, masonic symbol), and of course Christine Taylor Green born on 9/11. There's so much interlocking conspiracies going on, and yet their only explanation for Loughner's shooting was he was "crazy" I think I need more than just a glib explanation.

posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 09:22 PM
More about this in the thread in Godlikeproductions:

The Kelly Twin Astronauts Mark and Scott are CLONES of Benito Mussolini !


PS. ATS lost the prime Scoop on this news too. For more info check the above link to that other forum, and for general info about Clones check my signature link.

posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 10:12 PM

Originally posted by Getsmart

This may be an even more striking similarity than Roll and Hitler. The chin is a 100 percent match. The shape of the skull is an almost perfect match, and unlike the difference in nose between Hitler and Roll, the nose between these two are very similar.

I posted in the other place that Roll may not be dead. Out of many articles on his funeral, not one picture is shown of him in his casket. It just makes me wonder if instead of killing Roll, they faked his death in order to get him to work in the secret government while everyone thinks he is dead. Read my other post for more details, but you'll find it very hard to find a picture of him in a casket.

posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 10:19 PM
Hi Filosophia,

The rabbit hole gets DEEPER YET.

I have just unearthed another incredible instance of Cloning in the Giffords Shootings.

Gabrielle Giffords herself !

Eva Braun and Gabrielle Giffords

For the implications of the above, see the link to the thread in Godlikeproductions posted above.


posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 12:04 AM
At least this will interest intelligence specialists with access to image analysis equipment who can verify for themselves in 3D rendering whether these identifications hold water, having at their disposal thousands of source images and dedicated software designed to compile and cross reference them in order to establish formal identification. For the laymen here is another image showing the strong similarities in appearance of Giffords and Judge Roll.

Side by side like in the old days... or NOT

Actually, this might not be the case. It seems the two sisters not only looked a good bit alike, but often their respective photographs have been mislabeled as being on and not the other.

Eva and Gretl at the Kehlsteinhaus

Let us take a harder look, because in all logic no proper Nazi would wish for Eva to be married to Mussolini, right? And what do we get? A fairly accurate match for Eva's sister Gretl, who is said to have lived to East Germany under the name of Herlind Kasner who had a daughter named... Angela Merkel. Here we shall see photos of Herlind Kasner as an older woman, Gretly Braun as a young woman and we will note that the above mentioned photograph which was compared to Eva Braun was actually a picture of Gretl mislabeled, as is often the case on the Internet, as being her more famous sister.

Frau Herlind Kasner and a young Gretl Braun

Merkel with her ageing mother

Yet we must consider John McCarthy Roll with his wife Maureen, and determine whether they might be somehow related to anyone we might know. Here they are juxtaposed with Adolf's long time friend Leni Riefenstahl.

Leni and Adolf overlooking John and Maureen

John and Maureen above Leni and Adolf


edit on 17-4-2011 by Getsmart because: to err is human, unless you're an error nazi.

posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 08:00 AM
Lol, this thread takes a strange and very surprising turn.
Well I am open to new ideas, still they seem a bit far fetched from me.

So Judge Roll is Hitlers son ??

From the Federal Judiciary Center:

Judges of the Districts of Arizona
Roll, John McCarthy
Born February 8, 1947, in Pittsburgh, PA

From Wikipedia: Adolf Hitler committed suicide by gunshot on 30 April 1945 in his Führerbunker in Berlin.

So this version could not be true in your history.
I know, there are rumours around that A.H. fled to Argentina on a submarine and all.

So to back up your claims you'd have to show real strong evidence for:
- Hitler survived WWII
- He made it out of Germany
- He received a son in Pittsburgh just 2 years after his escape
- Roll really being his son

Can you do that ?

And about the Twin astronaut clones:
Scott Joseph Kelly (born February 21, 1964)

Can you show me any evidence that cloning technique was available in 1964 ?

Nothing against your story, it's great fiction, but without evidence - fiction

posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 10:19 AM

Originally posted by svetlana84

Can you show me any evidence that cloning technique was available in 1964 ?

Nothing against your story, it's great fiction, but without evidence - fiction

Hi Svetlana,

Thanks for taking time to post your reply. You are quite correct, anything which we cannot believe as possibly being true requires evidence, otherwise it remains purely fiction. This is in fact true for everything, we need some form of mental trigger before we accept an idea and let it influence our thinking, fortunately. Yet in this story the case can easily be reversed. You will note that not unlike yourself, I like to further investigate matters before believing anything I'm told.

1. How do we know that Hitler died? Burnt remains that could hardly be identified as the true Hitler especially as he had several known doubles, wasn't the suicidal sort, and also the body was discovered by the Russians whereby Stalin testified several times to the allies that he was convinced that he survived had fled to Argentina. Furthermore only a few short years ago his alleged skull was examined and found to be that of a woman. Assuming Hitler died in the bunker means that you are ready to accept conjecture and fantasy of a staged death story as truth. I call that fiction. The case for Hitler's survival is at least as valid as that of his death, as can be read about here further starting at this posting:

Hitler's FBI files saying he was not dead and was hiding in Argentina

2. Who was Judge Roll's father? Well, we don't exactly have any information substantiating any paternity. His Wikipedia page, and this despite his highly visible public profile and recent surge in notoriety, has a Personal Background section stating "This section requires expansion.[5]" and with a very short line pulled from a recent newspaper article based upon one journalist's statement.

[5] Swaine, Jon (January 9, 2011). "Arizona shooting dead: Judge John Roll". The Telegraph. Retrieved January 9, 2011.

Can we believe a single word that this War Correspondent, as a single unverified source without cross-referencing, has to say about this case - when we learn on Jon Swain's Wikipedia page that "French journalist Denis Robert, who unveiled the "Clearstream affair", wrote in 2006 in his book "Clearstream, l'enquête" that he believes Jon Swain was working in 2005 for Hakluyt & Company Limited, a private intelligence firm based in London with close links to MI6."

Wikipedia: Jon Swain

We have no idea of who his father was, and only indirect reference that his mother's maiden name might have been McCarthy, of whom we know strictly nothing.
No information = nothing to believe.

Given the very unusual void in John Roll's paternity, this opens up the left field wide for speculation, at least until we learn something substantial and verifiable. Little is known about his wife Maureen, not a maiden name, only slim references to their marriage 4 decades earlier which should have left more traces. Do the alleged 3 sons and 5 grandchildren really exist? Who knows when the only person affirming this is perhaps an MI6 agent of deception.

3. It was never said by anyone that "Hitler received a son in Pittsburgh". Such is a supposition based upon interpretation, given that any number of sons are born without the presence or reception by their father, and it even happens that sons may born without the knowledge of their father. Also we know of his birth only from his Wikipedia page, and we all know how this can be a sticky matter subject to falsification, if we keep up on current events and notice that even in the case of the current President of the United States of America we find that Donald Trump refuses to accept as evidence the dubious documents provided and is undertaking a full investigation into Barack Obama's poorly documented birth as Barry Soetoro.

4. The only way to know whether John Roll is actually genetically related to anyone, whether it be Adolf Hitler whom he closely resembles or some other potential parent, would be by DNA analysis in double blind fully controlled and reproducible lab testing, something which isn't about to happen, leaving here again the entire left field open to speculation versus accepting as fact whatever unverified reports are found "in print".

5. Was human cloning feasible back in 1964? Or even earlier for that matter? Here again it depends upon what you are prepared to envisage. For example, many people here at ATS will agree that there is considerable testimony from reliable sources that much of the most advanced high technology is kept secret in government labs, to be experimented with and used for defense purposes long before it ever becomes public and has any civilian applications. When this pertains to rocket science, propulsion systems, artificial intelligence, anti-gravity or nuclear fusion everyone agrees that this is most certainly logical and highly likely.

But as soon as we consider biology, it appears that only biological warfare is granted that logic, anything pertaining to genetics is not considered imaginable as being kept secret from the general public. Yet there is much testimony of various programs designed to create the perfect soldier, a superior fighter with greater capabilities, higher mental skills and a stronger physique. We all know that such goals would be best met using genetic engineering or gene therapy. And we accept that the former is acceptable to prevent disease in our future newborn children, that the latter can be used to treat patients in hospitals, that all such technology should and does exist at the service of the general public, yet that no government agency has ever explored such domains?

Furthermore, we know full well with extensive documentation that the Nazis during World War Two had a very large genetic research project with labs in various concentration camps and unwilling subjects in the thousands to experiment upon. They were obsessed with identical twins and with what they referred to as "twinning" which means "human cloning" some 70 years ago. We also know that most of these scientists were imported to the United States at the end of WWII and that they went on to work on their former projects in different capacities leading research teams for government task forces in their respective realms.

For one, Carl Clauberg who was notorious for having invented artificial insemination was brought over during Operation Paperclip to continue his work, and he can be seen to the right of this photograph found at the Wikipedia page on that subject marked by the number 18.

Click on him at the far right of this picture.

This means that there is every likelihood that US Government Agencies or their corporate shell companies conducted advanced research and experimented with "twinning" - given that the same Nazis who had done so earlier were given "carte blanche" to pursue their research unhampered and with lavish funding.

While this grants no measure of certainty or any hard evidence that this was accomplished at that date, we can nonetheless speculate that Human Cloning might have been successfully done at a much early date that we have been led to believe. One indication of this can be found in recent scientific evidence that it is far easier to clone Humans than other mammals, due to specific characteristics found only in human DNA which make humans far less likely to be subject to genetic deficiencies when cloned. So why are we told today that we still cannot clone people?

Given that we have all been told that Dolly the sheep, a more difficult mammal to clone than a human, was successfully created some years back, we can assume that a crack team of the leading cloning specialists with all the resources of the United States government would probably have been able to achieve similar results with humans at a much earlier date.

So there you have it. I am not suggesting that any of this should be taken as solid fact or tangible evidence of anything. As conspiracy theorists we are forced to question everything and to project multiple threads of logic until plausible theories can be explored, to be either proven false or considered as "maybe possible" until we some day find further fact to support or deny their validity.

My analysis points to an array of converging probabilities which, when taken together, can grant the illusion of reality. This of course doesn't make them so, but it does offer an option for interpreting events which I intend to explore in their various implications, in case there might be some underlying truth. I hope this answers your concerns.


posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 12:04 PM
Getsmart, i like your phrase:
"we need some form of mental trigger before we accept an idea and let it influence our thinking, fortunately. "
And I like to be challenged. Seeing your posts, you are like minded.

Especially interesting i found the point about the Nazis "twinning" did not know that, and i will research a bit on this.
Besides; a lot of scientists (apart from cloners) are very interested in twins. Since all science with humans, be it psyche or body matter have the problem, that not a single individual is the same as another.
Even close brothers react different to substances, feelings etc.
So Twins are interesting to study because they offer the "same setting".

Back to your answer, i agree on the remains of Hitler have not been fully proven, and there IS room for speculation.

Before i read your post i wanted to re-post in a jokingly way, feels a bit silly now, after your serious answer.
But I will anyway, the worl needs some humour these days:

I have found another eerie bloodline connecting the dots from Nazi-Youth to the Catholic church to German politics, straight to the shire:

Left: Wolfgang Schäuble, german finance minister (and shot at in the 90ies by a "loner" - hint, hint.
Middle: Ratzinger, german pope, and fomer member of the Hitlerjugend (Nazi-youth)
Right: Gollum, very cool guy, as long as there are no rings around.

We should write a book together!
With full respect.

posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 02:03 PM
My dad suffered a severe brain injury from a stroke, and he woke up a -month- afterwards... not a week. and even then, he wasnt putting a thumbs up until a month after that. I don't think a bullet blast to the head can lead to such a recovery as giffords.

posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 07:50 PM
We have not seen video evidence
We have no witnesses pointing him out in a line up
We have no pictures of Giffords' recovery
We have no pictures of a deceased Roll
We have 2 mug shots and a handful of court drawings, none of which resemble the same person.

In conclusion, we don't really have anything nor even a shred of evidence to suggest Loughner acted alone or acted at all, nor do we have any evidence that the supposed victims are even dead. For all we know the entire thing could be a fabrication.

But try telling that to the blood hungry mob that wants nothing more than to fry Loughner because the media told them he was guilty.

So who is more realistic, the majority of people who think he is guilty, or the minority of people who know they have been lied to.

posted on Apr, 17 2011 @ 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Neveos
My dad suffered a severe brain injury from a stroke, and he woke up a -month- afterwards... not a week. and even then, he wasnt putting a thumbs up until a month after that. I don't think a bullet blast to the head can lead to such a recovery as giffords.

Hi Neveos,

Thanks for sharing your experience, and I hope your father's doing better. This event in the news since January has been presented as nothing short of miraculous, with Obama being present when Giffords allegedly first opened her eyes, as if he were raising Lazarus from the grave. She is said to be recovering at a record pace, possibly because she is a Saint and a Martyr? We will note that her fan, who brought a young girl to be killed at that occasion, speaking of her in very unlikely terms, Suzi Hileman was found to recover in only days from 4 separate gunshot wounds. This makes for a unique event, with another victim being released within hours and then getting arrested a few days later for trouble making. Who can realistically believe that anything went the way we are told? It is even hard to believe that the shootings took place, or maybe even that many of the protagonists were actually real people, and not merely a media fabrication.

I will agree that the medical evidence is not supportive of a crime scene's investigative rigor and authoritative communication. The doctors involved read off or recite rehearsed rhetoric with emotive connotations unbefitting of such a solemn occasion. The fuss around the entire event with orchestrated funerals trimmed with Sci-Fi Angel figures and mystical flags and coached ceremonies was far from a genuine family's grieving. It was a Media Circus from beginning to end, and the Loughner trial is yet another sequel in that frenzy. I doubt that Jared Lee Loughner ever really existed. Any number of fake witnesses can be drummed up, especially if PIMA is an institution deeply penetrated by the CIA to help coordinate its Drug Import Operations from across the border south of Tucson.



posted on Apr, 18 2011 @ 11:00 AM

Originally posted by Getsmart

. This event in the news since January has been presented as nothing short of miraculous, with Obama being present when Giffords allegedly first opened her eyes, as if he were raising Lazarus from the grave.

Yes, the Biblical parallel is quite apparent when you lay it like this. Could it be an allegory for Obama's next run? Will he ditch Biden and choose the Giff, as his VP? Is Sarah Palin that big of a threat they would stage something like this for this end??

She is said to be recovering at a record pace, possibly because she is a Saint and a Martyr?
More miracles, more roping in of Christians to the voter base? Or, are the religious similarities part of some type of ritual, possibly. I believe each thing that happens IS part of a ritual, when this is the case. As in all of the elements seem to give strength to the ritual, and thus more power to those orchestrating the ritual.

We will note that her fan, who brought a young girl to be killed at that occasion, speaking of her in very unlikely terms, Suzi Hileman was found to recover in only days from 4 separate gunshot wounds.

Who else had four wounds while hanging on the cross?

Interesting points to ponder.

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