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Gunrunning scandal uncovered at the ATF

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posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 11:36 AM

Gunrunning scandal uncovered at the ATF

"Project Gunrunner" deployed new teams of agents to the southwest border. The idea: to stop the flow of weapons from the US to Mexico's drug cartels. But in practice, sources tell CBS News, ATF's actions had the opposite result: they allegedly facilitated the delivery of thousands of guns into criminal hands.

CBS News wanted to ask ATF officials about the case, but they wouldn't agree to an interview. We were able to speak to six veteran ATF agents and executives involved. They don't want to be quoted by name for fear of retaliation. These are their allegations.

(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 11:36 AM
Umm...If this story can be corroborated and verified, then it ABSOLUTELY identifies what an absolute JOKE the ATF is, and even further points to a conspiracy and agenda behind their org, imho.

So they basically not only allowed "suspicious" characters to purchase huge amounts of guns that they were allegedly tracking, but actually ENCOURAGED the dealers to keep selling to them? And then just let them take them all the way to the streets and kill people?

On the one hand, you can say they were doing this as a set up, to bide their time till they got ALL of the culprits.

But on the other hand, if their actions were leading to numerous murders, then something is quite wrong with this scenario.

I actually think there was an ADDITIONAL agenda at play here---To paint the picture that "American gun dealers" are helping to fuel the Mexican drug war violence, so that they can crack down on them and the sale of more types of firearms.

Something stinks to high heavens here...
(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 11:42 AM
I live in El Paso, on the border.A few years ago the FBI invesitgated a trucking company that sent several truckloads of ammo into Mexico. There was no effort made to stop them. This never made it into the news. This is the last of my top secret info. I have no more. Watch this post dissapear. This drug war is orchestrated to fuel TPTB.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 11:43 AM
Well considering that the CIA, ATF and FBI were all variables during the 1980's gun running to the Contras, and the drug deals with Escobar, this should come as no surprise?

All these secret organizations, that work for the US people, but hide everything they do, have been involved in illegal acts since the the dawn of in theres a crooked son of a bitch! Black mail artist in the first degree!

Sickening just sickening

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 11:48 AM
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

i saw the story last night, and am still affected,, we lost an Agent with some of the "walked" guns..

i don't understand how many weapons the man in-charge let get into circulation...

one,, 3.. even 11 guns out ,, just to build a case/track path of distribution,, sure,, all good for the better good.

but over 500 potential problems "?" WTF????

heads should have already rolled off the chopping block,, by now..

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 11:54 AM
Interesting. As suspected by many. However, once again,caution in condemning an entire organization because it contains rogue elements. Sometimes too it's a sting operation that got out of control or went too far. A lot can be covered up in that kind of compartmentalized organization on a local level. Should the ATF have known? Of course. In my opinion, they should be running constant checks for this sort of thing. the reality is that at some point, resources become stretched and opportunists take full advantage. What will matter more from here on in is their actions once the rogue elements are outed and identified. Sucks that you can't even trust the "good" guys, though there don't appear to be any anywhere anymore.
edit on 2/24/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 11:55 AM
Operation Gunrunner is pretty much THE FULL EXTENT of American civilian market weapons going to mexico!

Not only that but, It's been speculated other places that some recent deaths of american Law enforcement personnel were actually caused by guns from this Operation.

On a personal note I have to explain something for those with no experience or knowledge of the gun industry in the US. It is easy enough to lose your license for things like paperwork and etc being out of order. Most people with an FFL that DO NOT have friends in congress WOULD NOT DARE to do anything even close to illegal!

The reality is if you are a class three federal firearms license holder in the current climate the ATF is actively TRYING TO GET YOUR LICENSE REVOKED! Yes you heard me right. The ATF even admits this and has programs in place basically meant to discourage small scale Federal firearms license holders from renewing their license each year.

The only people gun running right now are people like Sabre defenc3e and the big gun manufacturers...
Sabre just had the plug pulled on it for illegal arms dealing. And another big gunmaker had several executives arrested at a trade show in the last year.

Don't get talked into supporting another assault weapons ban because you think it will help what is going on in mexico or detroit or any other place with a high crime rate!

It's all smoke and mirrors.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 11:59 AM
I love how it's seemingly par for the course for a government agency to manufacture a problem, incite and exacerbate the problem, complain about the problem they created, and even cause countless deaths, untold destruction, and use up how ever many billions in our extorted dollars.

And it's all just an investigation.

What more is needed to burn the whole thing down and toss all the politicians to the sharks?

Wars are fought over less evils.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 12:11 PM
Americans have become so desensitized to govt corruption. Its a sad time. How do we the people hold these criminals responsible? This whole thing will be forgotten in no time. People need to start organizing to figure out a plan of action against the rampant corruption in our govt. Something has got to give sooner or later... If we don't start doing something right away its only going to get worse at an exponential rate.

Posted Via ATS Mobile:

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 12:35 PM
This probably has a lot to do with Agentina's recent seizure of a US military flight that was loaded with guns and drugs, which the US is claiming was for "law-enforcement training".

Argentina Seized Undeclared Weapons and Drugs on U.S. Military Aircraft Last Week

The US military and the US intelligence community, the war on drugs, it's all a joke.

"We have met the enemy, and he is us".

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 12:41 PM
The paradigms driving the ATF (among other agencies) are the same absurd contrivances as those of the Feebies ...

In order to "sell" the perception of their "vital contributions", and "effectiveness" they facilitate (or some say manufacture) the conditions and elements of crime so as to appear as having fulfilled their mission and thus justify their expenses and perpetual access to funds (which can then be funneled to contractors for whom they - or their family/friends/and associates - may work someday.)

Meanwhile they do nothing more than promote (if not tragically worse in some cases) the very problems we are trying to control.

Agency-level law enforcement appears to be completely devoted to this strategy... more and more local forces are following suit... because no one in their right mind would think of reducing THEIR funding....

It's what happens when MBA's rule the world... everything becomes a marketing gimmick... and is viewed from the perspective of 'appearances.'

edit on 24-2-2011 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 01:25 PM
reply to post by DimensionalDetective

ATF agents have been complaining about this on a special forum for whistle blowers. The ATF knew what was going on and even acted to repress concerns. When the agents continued to complain they were over ridden by the ATF office in DC.

They forced gun dealers to sell guns to suspected gun runners. Then they let the guns go over the border. IT was known that it was happening and nobody cared. Then a border agent got killed and it was a big deal. I guess a border agent in America is worth more than a few Mexican cops.

Check out the web site Clean Up ATF for much more of the inside scoop from ATF agents on a list of issues. They are complaining about everything from project "gunwalker" to illegal release of trace data and more.

Phoenix Division Talking about Gun Runner

From a DEA agent at Clean Up ATF

Correct me if I have this wrong. George Gillette took a severe disciplinary hit earlier this year, and before that for some seriously inappropriate conduct involving an informant (a story today reported about an ICE AD that was fired for similar conduct). Gillette withheld evidence in the investigation of the attempted murder of one of our own Agents, SA Dobyns. He allowed and conspired to continue walking guns to Mexico and has threatened the brave agent who cooperated with a Senior U.S. Senator. How is he still an ATF Agent, let alone an acting supervisor?

This is not an isolated incident or an accident folks. The ATF is rotted at the most vital core areas. Even the agents are jumping ship. Many of them know they work for a corrupt agency and are begging Washington to help them.

edit on 24-2-2011 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-2-2011 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 01:43 PM
IMagine that..a federal police organization doing mafia stuff
like thats something new
the thing is, these guys are being payed with our tax money, and promoting violence. i think congress should dimantle the ATF..since they are proving they are doing henous illegal things, its not legal* so the ATF has no right or boundarys to serve and prtoect the law* dismantle them!

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 01:50 PM
Oh no, this is verified, this story is dead on!!

They been talking about it for a few weeks on the
radio show called *gun talk* with John Gresham
It comes on Sundays, and actually
a ATF agent and or a border guard got shot and killed by one of the
guns the ATF gave to the wrong people
to smuggle into mexico so they could catch the buyers...

I am all for keeping the boarder secure,
thats what most Americans want, but
it looks like ATF is not helping, they are

edit on 24-2-2011 by hillynilly because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 01:51 PM
I have to say I'm saddened by how little attention this subject has gotten on ATS. From the very beginning of the Gun Walker scandal threads have popped up here pretty regularly. None got much attention outside of the usual gun topic posters. I figured it was due to the early stages of the investigation.

Here we have a main stream news report confirming our government is criminal as hell and these criminal actions are resulting in peoples deaths and being used as a foundation to pose further restrictions on liberty and still it's quiet in here.

I guess non-issues like a camel on a comedy show and UFO fantasies are more interesting than real in-your-face instances of your government kicking you in the teeth and giving you the finger.

Im sure it doesnt help that there isnt some line of imaginary partisanship to fuel another pointless sheep v. sheep tirade of left/right stupidity.

Everybody loves the smoke but by the time flames are shooting through the roof the corwds have dispersed.

What a shame. Especially on ATS. Unless ATS is a lot more like TMZ than I ever thought it was.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 02:01 PM

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Unless ATS is a lot more like TMZ than I ever thought it was.


I have to agree though... how can this be met with such indifference?..... maybe people are scared to criticize the ATF since doing so gets you labeled as a potentially self-radicalized threat by the almighty and all-knowing think-tanks of the establishment..... for whom the ATF represents order, law, and safety....

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 02:41 PM
I find it amazing that you hand people the tool to hear the story from the source and nobody listens. For a while we have been discussing this and nobody listened. Now they are handed the resource to hear what agents are saying and they don't listen. I guess ATS really doesn't care.

Do we really need another Chemtrail or 2012 thread when a conspiracy with easily found facts sits in our lap. Maybe people need to wake up and realize where the real threat is coming from. There is a federal agency that has been caught red handed forcing business owners to break the law. They have been caught red handed giving away guns to cartels. They have even intentionally stone walled and obfuscated to keep the Senate from excercising proper over sight.

From Sen. Grassley to Eric Holder regarding the briefing his committee recieved,

I appreciate the staff briefing that Department of Justice (DOJ) and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) officials provided on February 10, 2011. However, the briefers focused on general issues related to challenges in successfully prosecuting gun trafficking cases. They refused to answer specific questions about the facts and circumstances that led me to request the briefing.

Specifically, they refused to say whether the approximately 103 weapons seized according to the Jaime Avila indictment were the only seizures related to the nearly 770 weapons mentioned in the indictment. They refused to say whether the third assault rifle purchased by Avila in January 2010—the one not found at the scene of CBP Agent Brian Terry’s shooting—has been recovered elsewhere. When asked whether ATF had encouraged any gun dealer to proceed with sales to known or suspected traffickers such as Avila, the briefers said only that they did not have any “personal knowledge” of that.

These people are endangering the lives of American citizens and Mexican citizens. Then they basically thumb their nose at the senate and the citizens. They operate as if they are above the laws of man and nature. Yet all ATS can muster is a an apathetic sigh. So much for holding "the man" accountable and all of the other rhetoric typed on these pages.
edit on 24-2-2011 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 02:52 PM
reply to post by MikeNice81

My guess is there's some comfort in the absurd comical concerns that draws people in. Makes it almost fun to worry about 2012, alien organ harvesters, old men in the woods of california worshiping sticks, etc...

When a real violation such as this pops up it's scary to them. Nobody is going to be suffering at the hands of martians anytime soon but here we have documented proof and witness testimony of real-time tyranny and the prospects are understandably frightening.

It's like knowing the people are your street are being killed house to house. Each shot is a little louder than the last and it's only a matter of time before they reach your house. Some people flee, others grab their rifles and meet the threat head on and still others just turn the volume up on the TV.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 03:04 PM
No surprise there... The u.s government is the worlds largest arms dealer...

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 03:06 PM
this is a prime example of what happens when
there is no over sight to a clandestine agency
who operates on a loose leash.

This happens in ALL US Agencies,
not just the ATF.

There needs to be a national agency
similar to Internal Affairs for cops, who
police the bad elements out of our

I would like to introduce USBIA
(United States Bureau of Internal Affairs).
They should even be able to police the
CIA. And they report directly to a Congressional
Committee and they have subpoena powers
over anyone including National Security Clearance

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