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Wow!! I know its already been said but man this is an amazing thread, one of the best ops Ive read since joining ATS, if I could flag this thread a thousand times over I would because everybody everywhere needs to read this!!
I hope you dont mind but Ive saved your post to my computer, not to use as something of my own creation you understand, but because its so inspiring.... Ive been going through my own kind of awakening to concepts you have touched upon but have found it hard putting into words, so thankyou
Stop? What about my house payment? My car? Food? Money? STOP. When I raise my fist to the air and shout, “HAIL ERIS, ALL HAIL DISCORDIA!” I am not giving my reverence to a goddess – but rather to my fellow brothers and sisters who are suffering under an illusion of false rule...
Racism – illusion, created by the Elite: control is easily enforced on a population split on issues.
Politics – illusion, created by the Elite: control is easily enforced on a population split on issues.
Religion – Again, read Malaclypse the Younger's words above. It can have the same influence as Racism and Politics, but yet – I will not diminish anyone’s belief system because I respect everyone’s beliefs in their deity or non-deity. His words do not dismiss religion into the spectrum of illusion, but rather supports their reality because of them being beyond reality (make sense?). Religion is either true, or not true.
War – illusion, created by the Elite: Hey, they need to have some fun every once in a while right? Yeah, that and they need to make money, you know – that illusion created from an earthly resource. Think about this in the case for war: Poor people from one country go fight the poor from another country all because of some illusion to a resource.
Money – Illusion, created by the Elite: Some special people have lots of it, most of us don't... it's based off of a sparkly yellow rock... what more evidence does anyone need? Wait... I thought we were special too? Hmmm. Anyone seeing the picture yet?
It's not all bad. I don't believe in "fear", either, since the way I see it, those two emotional constructs are inextricably linked. Each is nothing more than the other turned inside out.
Yup, I've pretty much given up. That's always subject to change providing that a light pops on at the end of the tunnel at some point. It's not so much dread as I'm just tired. Folks could be so much better off if they learned to work together to build, rather than trying to take and destroy. I've got serious doubts that will occur any time soon. I've grown tired of watching them want something someone else has, and decide the way to go about doing business it to attack and take. I've grown tired of watching them decide their opinion is the only valid way, and thinking they have to force the others to come around to their way of thinking. Spirited debated and the exchange of ideas for consideration is one thing, a healthy thing, but arm twisting and a pop in the yap to gain compliance of thought is quite another.
The deal in Greensboro nearly set me off. I don't like unions, not even slightly.
I'm not singling them out, just using them as an example.
I have a son as well. I sent him away so that he won't be in the middle of this mess when it hits. Emotions and having to worry about who else I have to look out for are not luxuries that I think I can afford at the moment. I believe it's about to get unbelievably bad, and he has a much better chance of making it where he is. I myself stand a much better chance of making it through if I don't stand in danger of breaking down and losing it over every little thing, and if I have freedom of motion without having to look out for him.
People in general are pretty vindictive. They allow things to get so far out of hand as a collective that emotions like "anger" or "fear" take over, then they get that urge to kill, to strike out at what they perceive as their oppressors, to crush rather than avoid or ignore. It's mostly the anger demanding an outlet, independent of rational thought. Conversely, the would be oppressors are generally motivated by a lust for power, which exhibits also as "fear", but fear tempered with hubris rather than honest anger. Before you know it, one "side" or the other strikes out, and it only takes one spark to start a raging brush fire. Whether you're among the "attackers", the "defenders" or just the innocent bystanders makes no difference at all once the conflagration starts.
I won't be among the attackers, but I won't balk at defending, either. Someone has to look out for the bystanders, since most of them are not emotionally able to look out for themselves. That's why they are bystanders. Common sense tells them they just want to be left alone, but the opposing camps will usually not allow that.
At some point, I think, a critical mass will be reached where those who have reached that realization will have a strong enough majority to make the encroachers or attackers irrelevant, but that time is not yet. Humans as a group are still too fearful. I further believe that there will always be among us those who try to take by force, or convince through force, but at some point they can be made irrelevant, not dangerous enough to really bother with.
Yes, they all want the same thing - security. That most often manifests as a quest for power or riches. Further, that power seems not to be satisfactory to them unless it's power over others. It seems few are content to just have power over themselves, which, if you think about it, is the only real security there is.
I could be wrong here. It could just be simple greed, but again I think greed is based upon the perception that there is something they need to fear. They seem not to realize that all the "stuff" they amass is what will hold them in bondage. They become slaves to it, yet always and ever seek more.
I can try to guide them, I can try to teach them, but ultimately the guidance and learning will have to come from within themselves. All I can really do is provide concepts for folks to ponder and consider - most of which will be rejected out of hand. When the ground is fertile, the seed takes root. Otherwise it just withers, and you look to the next season. The planting goes on every season regardless, and what grows, grows as conditions allow. You can water it, you can fertilize, but ultimately it's out of your hands. All you can do is try to foster the right conditions.
If the SHTF, the terror from the government will be a sight to behold, but it won't be limited to the government as a source. There are a LOT of scared, angry folks out there who will lash out mindlessly. I expect it will be six weeks, or maybe a little more, before it settles out enough to tell who's who, and actual "sides" crystallize. Even then, there may be more than one side - there are always at least 3. "That" side, "this" side, and those caught in the middle, which BOTH of the other sides OUGHT to be worrying about protecting, but rarely ever do.
EVERYONE matters. Everyone. Even those who would impose themselves on the rest, even the "elites", even they matter.
I'm free. You're free. We are all free. We are born that way, out of the Kaos if you will. What could be freer than complete lack of both order and disorder? I think Buddhists refer to that as "Nirvana", but Kaos works as well. It has just come to be associated in the popular mind with disorder, for some reason. This freedom can never be taken. we can't even willingly give it up. it just IS, and always will be. It's non-transferrable, because everyone has their own, to the exact same degree - complete freedom.
Originally posted by hypersonic02
Yeah. .i agree. When I ws a young boy i ws so puzzled about religions..and people sticking with them blindly..
When I used to told them why do you follow the religion without giving a second thought.?
Evrybody used to scold me..
Now i'm in 20 years old, i don't like any religions due to the fact that they want us to follow bible, geeta, or koran with blind faith. .
And another thing i'v noticed that most of the masses are paralaysed. .they only think about their celebrity idols, they wish to be like them,
they don't want to miss their soaps and serials. .remembers evry minute details of the games like football, cricket, baseball woteva. .
Likes to do shopping, roaming aimlessly. .
But what they don't do is to have a deep thought about themselves. .where are we living..who are we..why we are born here..why only few people rules us?
Originally posted by kroms33
Ok, I don't want to call you out on anything – but you are making yourself sound like a “Vulcan.”
I mean, what emotions do you have left? Sadness? I mean, you are nearly claiming to be non-human.
Wait – I see, my bad.
You don't 'believe' in these emotions... but yet – you can not deny them. I am sorry, I can not selectively choose to not believe in something that has been proven to exist through researching components of emotion and its elicitors, neural processes, hormones and expression.
When I speak of illusion – I speak of the truth that is veiled behind the elitist mentality.
The reason it does not occur, is because we do not let it. We have always been suppressed by some kind of power, be it money or government – it has always prevented people from working together.
My main concern is how they remove the elitists from power. No one has to twist anyone's arm to do it – people just have to opt out of their dead system and get on with our own lives.
If everyone opted out of their system and starved them, they wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Sure, they would create false flags such as “Terror Attacks” to try to reunite their system and way of thinking with humanity – they would do anything they could to stop human equality... it is their enemy.
What you have to come to terms with is why you do not like unions. Such as, are they a key part of the story behind why the elites have turned their backs to humanity and divided us? I really think you need to come to terms with what you don't like and figure out why you believe the ways you do.
Well, wouldn't it be said that unions were formed out of the evil doings of the elite?
You do not know me – but yet you read my words. Hopefully some of the emotion is conveyed within my text. I feel corruption is everywhere, from an office building and it's workers right down to the guy slaving away to help feed his family on a construction site. I worked in an office building as a Network Admin and Telecom Admin for over 6 years. I have witnessed the brutality of corporate America behind the lines as the CEO pulled out a box of Kleenex and put it atop his desk and smirked wickedly at me stating “Another one bites the dust.” I have seen the backstabbing from within and the chess games people play with other people. Now, I don't do that any more, and I see the same evil and corruption that consumes the trade that I am in. People do not care on either side of the spectrum.
I am currently a construction worker, who is in a union. The union is corrupt – yes, and I will not justify the idiotic measures that both sides of the issues take, it is illusion. While unions do fight for workers rights – and it is because of them that certain laws are in place to make sure workers are treated correctly in the work place, one has to wonder what corrupted them in the first place?
Look, it is a political game – both sides share equal amounts of hate and equal amounts of claims and counter claims... it is ridiculous.
Now, I am in the middle of a rock and a hard place – because of the economy that has been created out of the greed of the elite... but yet it is focused not on the greed of the elite, but unions. Currently, I am without work – as are many of my fellow tradesmen, so what now? Who carries the blame, my union? No – the banks.
See, we are all being forced to fight each other here... and I don't think it is right. Why fight at all? What is always funny to me – is that many of the people who are anti-union are anti-illegal immigration... but yet, when I signed up to become a union member I had to be a citizen of the USA, of which I was born. See the conflict and the illusion?
See, I can't send my son away. I don't have any other place to send him. I have to protect him – and until my last gasps for air, I will. I love the little guy so much – I never thought I would be able to love someone so much... this opened my eyes. I saw the world different.
I worked harder to attain more stability – but yet my work was still unnoticed. People do not care. My job became my life – and now that I see how meaningless and pointless my contribution towards society is, I wrote this thread.
If people loved each other as I love my son and my wife, with unconditional measure – the world would become such a beautiful place. I have not lost my faith in people – if I had, I never would have posted my beliefs.
True. And that is why I stated that people need to stay out of it. Do not become part of the illusion of Order and Disorder by partaking in it – but starve both of them completely. Become Chaos by being completely out of their picture.
Of course they won't allow it. It is in their programming under the illusions they follow to not leave the innocents out of the fray. I mean think of it!!! More recruits for their minions.
Sure, there is potential for an army of Discordians – minions of us awakened, but yet what harm would we do? Why would we hurt? The only things that would hurt are bankers wallets when they realize the world around them has changed, and the politicians pride since they no longer rule. Sure, they will lash out – false flags and all.
If the USA erupts into violence – this will no longer be a safe place for my family and I to reside. I will move and become a refugee. I do have a feeling though, if it does go down – people will be forced to stay here, and forced to take a side. Sick really. We all play right into the illusions they give us. Over a damn rock.
You and I write online books do we not? LOL
....let us talk about the human being as a social animal. Even if we do not like other people, we have to live together. Natural law is such that even bees and other animals have to live together in cooperation. I am attracted to bees because I like honey--it is really delicious. Their product is something that we cannot produce, very beautiful, isn't it? I exploit them too much, I think. Even these insects have certain responsibilities, they work together very nicely. They have no constitution, they have no law, no police, nothing, but they work together effectively. This is because of nature. Similarly, each part of a flower is not arranged by humans but by nature. The force of nature is something remarkable. We human beings, we have constitutions, we have law, we have a police force, we have religion, we have many things. But in actual practice, I think that we are behind those small insects.
The queens are developed from larvae selected by worker bees and specially fed in order to become sexually mature. There is normally only one adult, mated queen in a hive.
Some thoughts on "Discordianism".
I think it's important to note that in the "Illuminatus!" novels, Hagbard, the leader of the "Discordians", his non-violent "Demonstration" ultimately fails.
In the end, in order to save the world, Hagbard is forced to intervene and kill all of the Illuminati, even though he initially swore he would never do such a thing.
Is there some sort of hidden lesson there? I don't know.....
"You're the fifth Illuminatus Primus," said George.
"Right," said Hagbard.
"But you were working against the others. While they were a worldwide conspiracy infiltrating every other organization, you were infiltrating them."
"That's it," Hagbard said. "Every golden apple has its own worm eating away at its core."
"They never were the real Illuminati at all. You're part of the real Illuminati."
"You've got it. You've got it all."
All of the men who saw the apple in whatever form, began to fight and kill one another for possession. Tanks smashed into on another head-on. Artillerymen lowered the barrels of their guns and fired point-blank into the center of the melee.
"What is it, Wolfgang?" said Winifred imploringly, her arms thrown in a panic around his waist.
"Look into the center of the battle," said Wolfgang grimly. "What do you see?"
"I see the thrown of the world...." etc etc...
Originally posted by kroms33
I think you missed the point - no hidden lesson at all. *whips out copy of The Illuminatus! Trilogy*
Didn't Eris kill off the Illuminati, and wasn't Hagbard part of the Illuminati?
The implications of the book are beyond measure, which is why - when you claim that Hagbard killed the Illuminati - it actually wasn't him, nor was it any Discordian that killed them, nor was it the Discordian movement.
How can you understand the full implications and philosophy of the book if you don't have the basic facts straight?
And yes, Hagbard was the Fifth Illuminatus Primus - but he was also the leader of the Discordians and working against the Illuminati the entire time. Playing double-agent.
The point is, he started out trying to fight the Illuminati using only peaceful resistance and knowledge - but then ends up killing them all himself!
If you don't know this, then you need to go back and read the book again.
How can you understand the full implications and philosophy of the book if you don't have the basic facts straight?
They would be nothing, nothing at all, and likely wouldn't even have a clue as to how to go fishing themselves. If the rest of us are "nothings", "peasants", "peons" in their worldview, their very inability to function at all without us makes them what? Something less than that.
Originally posted by cupocoffee
reply to post by kroms33
Okay, it's important to understand that there are two different "Illuminati" groups in the book.
One group is the "Evil" faction, the ones who want to kill everyone and become immortal. Hagbard is part of that group, he is the Fifth Illuminatus Primus, but he is actually a Mole and working against them the whole time.
Then there is an even higher and more powerful order of "Illuminati" which Hagbard is also a member of, who are essentially "Good".
Hagbard starts out as a lower level member of the A*A*. The A*A* have a strict philosophy of NON-intervention in human affairs. They teach Hagbard that it is impossible to get involved in human politics without eventually resorting to violence and killing and thus ing up one's own Karma.
Hagbard disagrees with his superiors and starts his "Demonstration". His goal is to show his superiors in the A*A* that he can fight and defeat the Illuminati using non-violent methods.
That is the correct plot of the book. That is the philosophy. You cannot get involved in politics without violence and killing, the two go hand in hand.
The parallels with current events are staggering of course