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Tensions Rise Over Afghan Civilian Deaths

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posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 10:53 AM

Tensions Rise Over Afghan Civilian Deaths

KABUL, Afghanistan - An investigation into claims that international troops killed scores of civilians in northeast Afghanistan escalated into a feud Tuesday between President Hamid Karzai and senior U.S. military officials who cited a report that Afghan parents have been known to discipline children by burning their hands and feet.

Karzai spokesman Waheed Omar described comments made by Rear Adm. Gregory Smith, director of communications for the U.S.-led coalition, also known as International Security Assistance Force, as being "outrageous, insulting and racist." He demanded a clarificat
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 24/2/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 10:53 AM
In a story beyond the pale one of the top U.S. Military Commanders in Afghanistan is trying to justify to its government excessive civilian deaths, based on the fact they are presumed to be bad parents!

While much of the world remains focused on popular uprisings throughout the Arab world the situation in Pakistan over the Davis affair, continued frustrations of civilian deaths in Afghanistan and the Peace Council in Afghanistan traveling to Guantanamo Bay Cuba to negotiate the release of the detainees there as part of a reconciliation process with the Taliban all point to the War in Afghanistan as being the biggest fiasco to ever confront the United States.

Our efforts seem tragically misguided, overreaching to the point of utter failure, and doomed to infamous failure on a War started on some of the flimsiest pretexts ever.

One might wonder too, if the U.S. is not looking for a hasty exit from Afghanistan in order to free up troops for protecting American Corporate Oil interests elsewhere in the Middle East as it continues to seethe in a wave of popular unrest?

I think if Walter Cronkite were alive he would likely be pronouncing the War in Afghanistan ‘unwinnable’ long about now.

(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 11:14 AM
UN: The security situation in Afghanistan has worsened to its lowest point since the toppling of the Taliban a decade ago and attacks on aid workers are at unprecedented levels, a UN envoy said yesterday

NATO forces say they have secured control of the south of Afghanistan. But just 30 minutes by car from Kandahar city, the Taliban has set up camps.

Five days ago, the invading forces in Afghanistan led by America launched brutal aerial attacks against civilian houses in Adargol, esulting in martyrdom of 70 common people.

The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) of the United States launched 118 drone attacks in Pakistan last year, but managed to kill only two “most-wanted” terrorists, The Washington Post has reported.

I heard that gadifi said it was bin ladin causing all the problems over there ...shesh using little georges lines ....It never made sense to me that US,NATO,RUSSIA military could not defeat what ever power in Afghanistan there may be ....They lied us into the war and are lying to keep us there . If peaceful protest can overthrow these dictator governments in the ME so easily then just what the heck are we doing with all our militarise ??? its mind boggling ...peace

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 12:06 PM
reply to post by the2ofusr1

Great post my friend, and it seems a pretty accurate assessment of the situation there too.

I nearly laughed out loud when Ghadafi evoked the Al-Queda boogie man in response to the uprising going on over there.

Why do I get the feeling we would all be better off without any leaders?

Thanks for posting.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 12:13 PM
Karzai is a criminal period, but this commander's logic, if it got translated correctly, is totally sickening. Thinking civilian deaths can be justified in any way is an illness in itself. To even attempt to is a huge fail.

Wonder if the people in Afghanistan might have the chutzpah to stage a revolution during a war
The way things are going, it wouldn't surprise me. They certainly have double the reason to.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Today Gaddafi is saying Obama is his friend.
Yep. Guess that's about where he left it with the U.S. on that merry-go-round.
edit on 2/24/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 12:22 PM
reply to post by ~Lucidity

The U.S. Admiral's comments to Karzai were truly beyond the pale, as he more or less said "who cares if they were civilians, they aren't nice to their children", evidently we must have been doing those kids a favor by blowing them up with American munitions and military personnel as a 'good way' to treat kids!

I used to work in the Travel Business and in Washington D.C. for a spell, and I can honestly say I noticed no shortage of truly stupid people sitting across my desk wearing General's Stars and Admiral's stripes, but this Admiral's comments takes stupidity to a new low.

Thanks for posting.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 12:48 PM
I come across articles that have a group that you never hear mentioned in msm ... Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan

Permanent Bases in Afghanistan are American Pipedream

Last week, the Head of the American- installed Regime, Karzai, admitted that Americans were planning to have permanent presence and bases in Afghanistan . According to him, the Americans perceive some incessant threats which could not be eliminated until 2014. February 19, 2011

This group seems to be neither Taliban or Karzai I think they are the true resistance .... Undoubtedly, the Americans showed their muscles, resorted to brutalities, used cutting-edge technology, economy, diplomacy and ploys during the last decade to swallow and digest Afghanistan. But thanks to the help of the Almighty Allah and the bravery of the Afghan Mujahid people, American and the invading coalition forces faced defeat, their stratagems and strategies failed. The situation now has reached a phase that every household of the Afghans opposes the invasion and wants to beat them. Similarly, the people in West and in America, loudly say that America has lost the war of Afghanistan; they do not support this war and want their troops to return back home soon.

Since the Americans have lost the chance of advancement at the military field and disappointed from the success of their war strategies, so they want to justify their presence in Afghanistan for some time by resorting to the stint of establishment of permanent bases in thecountry. They want to show to the world that they have come here for an important mission which requires their prolonged presence . The Afghans know the idea of permanent bases is a mere conjectures of the Americans because Afghanistan is not a country where the aborigines will tolerate presence of foreign troops even for a single day, nor they will be ready to sell their soil to the Americans for a few million of dollars.

The Americans should know, neither the rulers of the stooge regime nor the hand-picked parliament is entitled to trade on the destiny of Afghanistan with any one-- still less to be in a position to implement it. Had they enjoyed such mandate and representation of their people, Afghanistan would not have become a center of toils and threats for the foreign invaders. These stooge rulers sold Afghanistan to G. W. Bush ten years ago ostensibly for 5 centuries, but the past decade is witness to the fact that the Americans never have had a sleep of solace even for a single night but, contrarily, every inch of Afghanistan has become an oven for them. This exposes the fact that this country has some other vanguards who are able to force the 150,000 men strong foreign invaders to pull out and meanwhile besiege the surrogates in their official buildings to the extent that they can’t walk freely one meter out of their premises. Their scope of authority and activity is limited to the said buildings, being merely able to implement their say there.

Observers believe, the establishment of permanent bases in Afghanistan is an American pipedream and is not practicable. The regional countries unmistakably realize the goals and objectives of America behind their prolonged presence in Afghanistan. Naturally, the regional countries will not accept this notion but rather will oppose it. Even they will forge an alliance against it if they find the chance to do so and will make efforts to deal a dashing and crumbling blow at America.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 12:49 PM
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I think if Walter Cronkite were alive he would likely be pronouncing the War in Afghanistan ‘unwinnable’ long about now.

There are some serious leadership missteps going on over there. Take for instance a Dateline investigation I watched one night on the Battle of Wanat. A platoon of very patriotic and brave Airborne soldiers from Chosen Company, get the name, were told that they have to move their operations. They were two weeks away from going home and none of them thought that it was a good idea.

The place they were going was basically a fish bowl. They were supposed to create fortifications in the bottom of this fish bowl. A civilian contractor was supposed to be there with heavy equipment to help fortify the kill zone that was to become their base. The contractor nor the equipment was there.

They had been told by a pro American Afghan in the days prior to moving that the Taliban were massing for an attack on their current position. When they moved they were told that the Taliban would be following them. When they arrived at their destination they had nothing.

A severe shortage of water kept them from fortifying their new outpost for a few days. What feeble defenses they were able to create were done with hand tools. When one of the soldiers wrote home to his Dad who was a retired Colonel, he told him that the place was no good and that he had a bad feeling about it.

They called in to their superiors and told them that they needed supplies and air support. They told them that they needed drone surveillance aircraft as well. They received nothing.

They were in a kill zone. With mountains all around. So they sat like targets and waited until a massive assault that lasted four hours killed nine of their members and wounded just about everyone else. It was a blood bath just like one of the soldiers who wrote home had predicted.

The retired colonel demanded an investigation and the military surmised that everything was done correctly and no one did anything wrong. The father kept pushing and another investigation was launched. The parents of the men killed were flown to Washington to confront the very Commander who ordered the platoon to move into the new location just two weeks before they were to leave.

The outcome? Nothing. Very tough pill to swallow.

In the days before one of the fiercest battles in America's eight-year war in Afghanistan, Army Capt. Benjamin Pry argued for more surveillance flights to help his beleaguered unit of fewer than 50 soldiers. Since moving into a new outpost on July 8, 2008, they had struggled with shortages of water, fuel, food and heavy machinery to help defend against an enemy attack that they believed would eventually come. Lacking excavating equipment, the troops dug fortifications by scraping the rocky soil with spades and bare hands. Then on July 12, headquarters commanders diverted drones — remotely operated planes outfitted with cameras to spot enemy movements — to another area. Pry argued so hard to undo that decision that he said he breached professional etiquette. Still, he was unsuccessful.

The 254-page unreleased study challenges the Army's official battle investigation, which had concluded that leaders displayed "sound military analysis" and that no blame could be placed on commanders. Cubbison noted suspect decisions by commanders, who allowed an understaffed platoon to plant itself in hostile territory without adequate support. In the Wanat battle study, Cubbison concluded that: • No senior commander visited Wanat before establishing it as an outpost, and it was "highly questionable" whether these commanders exercised due diligence when they ordered a platoon to move there. • The lack of heavy equipment to fortify defenses and the lack of intelligence support directly contributed to the casualties suffered last July 13.

In early July, American military intelligence learned that a force of 300 foreign and local fighters had massed around another remote base, named Bella, but the Americans completed a planned pullout before they could be attacked. Bella had been occupied by Chosen Company, part of the Second Battalion of the 503rd Infantry, and Chosen had just finished a 15-month deployment in one of the most rugged and dangerous parts of Afghanistan. Like the rest of their brigade, they were literally days from going home.

The assault on Wanat began just before dawn with a barrage of rocket-propelled grenades and heavy machine-gun fire. There were 45 American and 25 Afghan soldiers at Wanat—a relatively large force—but they had erected almost no fortifications around themselves. Instead, they were relying on concertina wire and a ring of armored Humvees to keep them safe. Judging by the sequence of targets in the first few minutes, the American military believes that the Taliban probably had a detailed plan of the base; it also believes that both local police and a district governor were complicit in the attack.

The fight lasted four hours and didn’t end until aircraft showed up and started strafing the perimeter of the base. Nine Chosen Company soldiers were killed and 21 were wounded. Over half the Americans at the base had been hit. It was the single costliest firefight of the war.

Here is a link to the actual Dateline Story.

Dateline Story - A Father's Mission

So when we couple the gross negligence and utter lack of concern for our troops in this story, it is not far fetched to believe that the civilian casualty rate is soaring. The regular soldier will be blamed for that of course and not the people who told him to do what he did.

Then I sit back and think, the Taliban huh? The Taliban. Resources.

Taleban in Texas for talks on gas pipeline

A senior delegation from the Taleban movement in Afghanistan is in the United States for talks with an international energy company that wants to construct a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan to Pakistan. A spokesman for the company, Unocal, said the Taleban were expected to spend several days at the company's headquarters in Sugarland, Texas.

Makes you wonder how many more people have to die before this is figured out.

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