It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why Good and Bad Can't Really Exist

page: 6
18
<< 3  4  5    7  8 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 04:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by Manula
I guess its in your path to live like that. Just remember, when you make choices you are trying to discern whats best. You have to judge between choices. Whats the best choice? You are choosing then, you must analyze and choose.


No, again, I don't think like that. "Good," "better" and "best" are related words. They teach you as much in English classes. There is just different. If "best" really existed, we would all be trying to be the same person, but we're not. There is no objective "best" way to live or think. That's only a judgment your ego passes to make you feel special.


We live in a world where you have polarity.


Where you have polarity, you mean.


Thats why we have free will. To choose between the two sides.


Free will is freer than that. My free will chooses not to even engage in the pissing contest that you call "good" and "bad." It's not my problem that you have engrained the words so far into your psyche that they're a necessary crutch for your way of seeing the world.


Will i choose fear or love?
Will i choose to help people or to harm them?
Will i choose to see the bright side of life or the dark side.


You will inevitably see both of them, because you have yet to realize there is no real distinction. As long as you look for one, you will always see its opposite too, and I explained this in the OP. You are setting yourself up for constant struggle in polarity, trying to be "good" and separate it from the "bad" when really you are just confused and there is no objective difference or clear dividing line, in the real, objective world.

The poster above tried to explain it too. Read his post.


We can accept the existence of the two sides and not judge them


By recognizing two sides, ie "good" and "bad," you already passed judgment. Sorry.


understanding that there is no darkness without light. In fact, we wouldn't understand what good feels like if we haven't felt bad.


Exactly. "Good" requires "bad" to exist. So if you take one, you take both of them. The only way to truly get rid of "bad" is to stop recognizing it as a real thing in nature. It isn't. It's a product of your mentality, by believing that "good" exists out there in comparison to the "bad." That's just your choice. You choose to experience "bad." I don't. I don't experience "good" either. Everything is more complicated than that, and "good" is a horrible adjective anyway.


I understand, good and bad cant live without each other.
But you have to choose.


You only have to choose when your brain can't handle thinking without them. Yours apparently can't. I have yet to call anything "good" or "bad" to make a point in this entire discussion and yet what can you do that I can't?


Thats the name of the game: to choose.
We have free will to choose.
One day, in other dimensions free will will be gone, there will be nothing to choose, there will be only light love, but now, in 3D, we have to choose.
For me its the end of this discussion.
I wish you the best (not the worst) whatever that is.


By wishing me "the best" you inherently also are wishing me "the worst" situations somewhere in my life just so I would be able to recognize the polarity you live in. I don't want anything to do with any of it. Keep struggling against something that doesn't exist. You only have so much energy to waste before you die anyway.




posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 07:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by bsbray11
Okay, it still could refer to anyone and my point would be the same.


No... it could not refer to “anyone” when it was referring to me.


Originally posted by bsbray11
Come on man, move past the word games to the substance of your argument, whatever that's supposed to be.


The substance of my argument was made very clear in my first comment. In short: All those who have been victims of evil (and I provided a fictitious example), believe evil (bad) exist. Those who believe evil (bad) does not exist can be cured of this delusion by experiencing evil first hand.

Most do not need to experience evil (bad) first hand to know it exist. They only need to see it experienced by others.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 09:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by soleprobe
The substance of my argument was made very clear in my first comment. In short: All those who have been victims of evil (and I provided a fictitious example), believe evil (bad) exist. Those who believe evil (bad) does not exist can be cured of this delusion by experiencing evil first hand.


This is a fallacy. Assuming I would change my beliefs just because I'm raped, is based on nothing but your own bias. You don't even understand what the OP is about.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 03:45 AM
link   
reply to post by bsbray11
 


Something’s gotta make ya believe evil exist. How about if you were strung up by the nuts? “Ok…Ok….let me down…. I believe…. Evil exist”



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 05:22 AM
link   
reply to post by soleprobe
 


For the OP all feelings are the same, There is no feeling good or bad. Do you live in earth OP?
Are you some kind of a GOD? Even Jesus suffered when he was dowm here.
I understand all the arguments the OP offers but... They are mental/abstract ideias. In earth, in this reality, we have to deal with extreme emotions, its an emotional storm, thats what we came here to do, to live this polarity world.
But the OP doesn't seem to want to be here.
There is no good and bad, all is one.
But in a 3D world like the earth, there is polarity because the creator wants to live it through us. We are all portions of the creator.
In other worlds, other dimensions, there is no polarity, there is no suffering, there is only love and light, but that is not the case of planet earth.
Is it hard to understand? Look around you. There are people loving, hating, enjoying, suffering, this world is full of polarity emotions.
Do you think you are immune?
A stab in your stomach would change that (or rape, or torture, or anything else that really hurts). I do not wish you that ok!!
I am only trying to explain my point.
The point is you are a human being, so you feel, you have emotions, some of them feel good, others feel bad. This is polarity. Google: Law of one
But its like talking to a wall. You just don´t get it.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 05:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by soleprobe
reply to post by bsbray11
 


Something’s gotta make ya believe evil exist. How about if you were strung up by the nuts? “Ok…Ok….let me down…. I believe…. Evil exist”


lolol Funny


Look OP, i understand that philosophy. But you are trying to deny something very human: we are emotional beings!
We feel good and bad. Its not a mind thing, it is an emotional thing, we feel it ok. Get out of your mind and start feeling life and people.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 09:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by Manula

Originally posted by soleprobe
reply to post by bsbray11
 


Something’s gotta make ya believe evil exist. How about if you were strung up by the nuts? “Ok…Ok….let me down…. I believe…. Evil exist”


lolol Funny


Look OP, i understand that philosophy. But you are trying to deny something very human: we are emotional beings!
We feel good and bad. Its not a mind thing, it is an emotional thing, we feel it ok. Get out of your mind and start feeling life and people.


Ok, I'm assuming you consider love, compassion, and kindness positive emotions and anger, regret, and apathy negative emotions.

What happens to yourself when do this positive and negative, good and bad stuff? You set yourself up for endless amount of suffering! Because when you divide everything into two distinct groups and label them "good" and "bad" look what you try to do! You try to move towards all the "positive" emotions and you try to avoid the "negative" emotions. And every time you experience a "negative" emotion or a "bad" experience, you suffer! Because in your mind you've made it a "bad" thing.

In your mind you've created this polarity, but it doesn't exist outside yourself and so you suffer. Knowingly or not knowingly, you create an attachment for these "positive" emotions and "good" experiences and you suffer more.

I'm a down to earth, easy going person and honestly don't experience "negative" emotions like I used too anymore, only in a very, very minor and subtle way when my old conditioning kicks in, because look: When you stop seeing everything in terms of "good" and "bad" you don't have anything to be angry about, you don't have anything to regret and you don't have anything to be upset over.

When you realize there was nothing "wrong" with yourself in the first place, there is nothing "wrong" or "bad" with anger or any other "negative" emotion, and you keep on experiencing these "bad" and "negative" emotions only because you continue to see "good" and "bad" things, you suffer.

It's actually quite funny and a bit of a paradox.





edit on 8-4-2011 by doped00 because: edit

edit on 8-4-2011 by doped00 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 11:49 AM
link   
reply to post by doped00
 


You don´t have to deny polarity to be happy.
You just have to accept it and work with it. They are natural, they are part o the game.
Negative and positive are equally necessary. Negative is the test, the lesson, positive is the reward, party time.
You don´t have to reject this to live well.
I understand you polarity integration game, you think the objective is to transcend polarity.
I think we should accept it and work with it.
It seems you are always repressing your emotions.
Feelings are wonderful, i dont mind to feel, to go to the extremes.
Let me put it this way: Do feel like making other people feel bad is something you like to do?
No? Hmmm i suspect you prefer the positive.. lolol come on man, i understand your philosophy, ive been there.
But its not real. Its just a way to deny emotions, by not choosing between positive or negative you think you will be ok, you think you will avoid suffering. You want to get out of dance between positive and negative. You can dance and still be happy because positive and negative emotions are both necessary, they both have a role to play.
Its just a question of acceptance. You fear what you don´t accept as part of life. Accept them, dont deny them.
Its just my humble opinion.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 01:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by Manula
reply to post by doped00
 


You don´t have to deny polarity to be happy.
You just have to accept it and work with it. They are natural, they are part o the game.
Negative and positive are equally necessary. Negative is the test, the lesson, positive is the reward, party time.
You don´t have to reject this to live well.
I understand you polarity integration game, you think the objective is to transcend polarity.
I think we should accept it and work with it.
It seems you are always repressing your emotions.
Feelings are wonderful, i dont mind to feel, to go to the extremes.
Let me put it this way: Do feel like making other people feel bad is something you like to do?
No? Hmmm i suspect you prefer the positive.. lolol come on man, i understand your philosophy, ive been there.
But its not real. Its just a way to deny emotions, by not choosing between positive or negative you think you will be ok, you think you will avoid suffering. You want to get out of dance between positive and negative. You can dance and still be happy because positive and negative emotions are both necessary, they both have a role to play.
Its just a question of acceptance. You fear what you don´t accept as part of life. Accept them, dont deny them.
Its just my humble opinion.



"You don´t have to deny polarity to be happy."

The only polarity is in your mind. I'm not denying polarity because their is no polarity to deny.

"Negative and positive are equally necessary. Negative is the test, the lesson, positive is the reward, party time."

Again, you're creating polarity in your mind. I think in an earlier post you said something about the Law of One. If so, you've subscribed and trapped yourself in an ideology, a dogma of sorts.

"I understand you polarity integration game, you think the objective is to transcend polarity."

I'm not transcending polarity because their is no polarity to transcend. The polarity exists in your mind.

"It seems you are always repressing your emotions"

On the contrary, I am able to experience a full array of emotions without needing to judge and deem some "positive" and others "negative." And, because I don't judge reality, the very "negative" emotions that you say are a test, cease to exist, once you stop judging reality.

"Let me put it this way: Do feel like making other people feel bad is something you like to do?
No? Hmmm i suspect you prefer the positive.. lolol come on man, i understand your philosophy, ive been there."

I don't and can't make anyone feel "bad". It's impossible. That "bad" you speak of, is in their minds. People think and make themselves feel "bad", but, again, that "bad" is an illusion. It doesn't exist except in your mind. Reality provides the stimulus, you provide the response. And, in your response to reality, when you stop judging, there is no "good" and no "bad", no "positive" and no "negative", there just "is".

I don't know how else to say it other than you are judging reality and in your very judgement, you are creating "good" and "bad", you are creating polarity. But, like I said, when you stop judging reality, the "negative" emotions you deem are a "test", cease to exist.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 02:08 PM
link   
reply to post by doped00
 


Its not a question of judging, its a question of feeling.
I understand what you are saying.
Nothing feels like a challenge, nothing hurts you, nothing is joyful, you dont feel? I know. You always feel the same. Peace and quiet. Thats boring... You are not living, you are witnessing life. Don´t be afraid to live it because you have nothing to fear but your own actions.

Why do you do stuff?
An example: you go to the cinema because you enjoy it. You dont go the discos because you dont enjoy it.
Here you are judging. Cinema is alright, disco is not allright. Is this cause of pain? No. Its just making choices in life. You have to do this. You dont do this? How do you choose what to do?

edit on 8-4-2011 by Manula because: to add more ideas



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 05:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by soleprobe
Something’s gotta make ya believe evil exist. How about if you were strung up by the nuts? “Ok…Ok….let me down…. I believe…. Evil exist”


That's like converting someone to Christianity by torturing them until they tell you Jesus is Savior. If we were back in those times I have no doubt you would fit right in with that crowd, just by what you say here.

Argument by torture is obviously a fallacy.

Can't you think of a more mature argument than that? And btw, your example is unrealistic. Show up at my door and try to string me up by my balls and you'll see for yourself. I don't appreciate all the veiled threats coming from you in virtually every post. If you're going to do something then do it, don't just talk about it like you would actually know what would happen.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 05:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by Manula
For the OP all feelings are the same, There is no feeling good or bad. Do you live in earth OP?


If your posts are just going to consist of insults then I'm going to ignore you.

It's apparent to me that the OP was more than a little over your head. As long as you are so obviously disturbed by my arguments, I'm not even going to try to explain it to you anymore.


I understand all the arguments the OP offers but...


No, you really, really don't. Or else you wouldn't still be insisting that your views are objectively valid.


Do you know what the word "objective" even means? As opposed to "subjective"? Are you going to prove what "good" means objectively, as in some definition that everyone on Earth would agree with? Or are YOU God and you get to pick whose opinions are right and wrong now, and pass judgment over everyone?



But its like talking to a wall. You just don´t get it.


Ditto.

Answer the questions I just asked you above.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 05:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by doped00
What happens to yourself when do this positive and negative, good and bad stuff? You set yourself up for endless amount of suffering! Because when you divide everything into two distinct groups and label them "good" and "bad" look what you try to do! You try to move towards all the "positive" emotions and you try to avoid the "negative" emotions. And every time you experience a "negative" emotion or a "bad" experience, you suffer! Because in your mind you've made it a "bad" thing.


This is never going to register as long as this person thinks that your argument is also "bad." It's the same circular reasoning that Christians use, and by the Jesus references I have a feeling this is also someone of the Christian faith. No offense to Christians but that religion is also not based on objective arguments, but a lot of subjective views. I'm not here to argue with peoples' opinions if they are going to disregard any real standard for objectivity. All you can do is agree to disagree.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 05:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by Manula
Its not a question of judging, its a question of feeling.


Do you think with your emotions?

That may be your real problem.

Emotions are fine but you're not supposed to think with them. God gave you a brain for that.

You keep saying you understand, but you don't. If "good" and "bad" are arbitrary and mean different things from one person to the next (which they do), then there really is no such thing as an objective "good" and "bad." It's purely your opinion. And you should already know that opinions and facts are two very different things. Thus the fallacy of your entire viewpoint. You are confusing opinions with facts and think that your emotions justify you.


And no, threatening me with torture doesn't suddenly mean you're making sense. Pain is not the same thing as "bad." Again, there are some people who actually enjoy pain. It's called sadism. People even incorporate it into sex and some people can't even orgasm unless there are whips and chains and all the rest. I really can't understand why in the hell you think torture is a logical argument for anything except your own obsession with suffering.
edit on 8-4-2011 by bsbray11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 06:18 PM
link   
reply to post by bsbray11
 


I think i made you feel "bad" lol


Really, your point is "good" and "bad" are subjective concepts? Of course they are. Is that all your saying?

I´m not Christian by the way.
You must be very rational.
You will never reach enlightening using only rational thought, you must disconnect the mind, meditate, open the gates to intelligent infinity.

PS: having bad dreams in Guantanamo? lololol

Cheer up man its only a philosophical discussion



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 06:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by Manula
I think i made you feel "bad" lol


Nope, as wrong as ever. Even if you made me frustrated, which you have not, that would still not mean the same thing as "bad." "Bad" is a stupid, meaningless word.


Really, your point is "good" and "bad" are subjective concepts? Of course they are. Is that all your saying?


Yes, essentially it is.

Now all you have to do is finish carrying out the thought in your head. A subjective position is the same as an opinion. "Good" and "bad" are opinions. Objectively, they are meaningless. And you're trying to drill them into my head as apparent facts of life by bringing up one example of torture after another, which only proves that your polarized mentality has fixated you on suffering. You are only proving the point I am trying to make.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 06:33 PM
link   
reply to post by bsbray11
 


What about this: this text belongs here: www.nibiruancouncil.com...

Polarity Integration means the integration of two opposites. In our universe the “game for soul evolution” is called Polarity Integration and what we are here to integrate are the two opposites, Light and Dark.

The Light can be described as love, joy, bliss and all the emotions connected with the upper chakras. The Dark can be described as fear, anger, blame, shame and all the emotions connected with the lower chakras.

The Light represents the “reward”, joy, happiness, bliss. The Dark represents the “lesson”, the challenge. Emotional/physical pain, and the emotions of fear and anger are what we must learn to value as part of the lesson.

Compassion is the goal of the game. Compassion is the integration point, the middle point of the two opposites. When the soul reaches true compassion, it feels acceptance for both sides, judging neither as inherently good or bad. Achieving compassion or integration means that a soul sees the value in both the Light and the Dark, and chooses to have both in balanced portions, as part of itself.

Each soul in this universe is playing the Polarity Integration Game in order to achieve spiritual evolution and eventual reunion with Divine Creator, the Source, All that Is.

One of the great challenges of the Polarity Integration Game is finding the value in the Dark. The Dark is the schoolhouse, and the classes are the lessons we desire to learn in order to achieve a balance of both within ourselves.

The other great challenge is our belief that we want to stay in the Light. The Light is like a vacation spot on a tropical island. It is a getaway from the stress and strain of spiritual growth. We were never meant to stay there because staying in the Light would be polarizing to that extreme.

Polarizing to either the Light or Dark stagnates spiritual growth. It also eliminates the ability to procreate since the physical form is then partially emotionally shut down. It takes a balance of both polar opposites to be able to procreate without a problem.

In order to achieve our goal, we all play roles that are Dark and roles that are Light. Otherwise, we could not integrate because we would not have the experience of these opposites.

We achieve our spiritual evolution by incarnating on different planetary schools. Planetary schools have varying degrees of free will and, thus, provide different levels of empowerment. Earth is a planetary school with total free will, thus enabling souls incarnating here to experience the full extent of their creations and choices. Planets with this degree of free will are called “Grand Experiments.” There have only been two others in our universe.

We, the people of Earth, have now reached the end of our planetary game. We must now open up our memory banks to recall the rules of the game.

We have the codes of compassion in our DNA and higher dimensional tools are being given to us to enable us to achieve compassion. Nibiru has returned to fire those dormant codes and open up our memory.

Will we achieve integration? The choice is ours, and if we do, our planet will shift upward dimensionally and the remainder of the universe will follow suit.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 06:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by Manula
What about this: this text belongs here: www.nibiruancouncil.com...

Polarity Integration means the integration of two opposites. In our universe the “game for soul evolution” is called Polarity Integration and what we are here to integrate are the two opposites, Light and Dark.

The Light can be described as love, joy, bliss and all the emotions connected with the upper chakras. The Dark can be described as fear, anger, blame, shame and all the emotions connected with the lower chakras.

The Light represents the “reward”, joy, happiness, bliss. The Dark represents the “lesson”, the challenge. Emotional/physical pain, and the emotions of fear and anger are what we must learn to value as part of the lesson.



All this is just glorified opinions. You've just taken the concepts "good" and "bad" and given them some mythological spin.

How about Taoism? Ever read the Tao te Ching?

Or, this is a philosophy forum, so how about actual rigorous logic? Are you averse to straight logic?

All I'm asking is how you would objective define "good" and "bad," or even "light" and "dark," in terms that everyone would agree with. Many people enjoy anger and pain, and who are you to judge them as "darkness"?

If "the dark" represents some challenge, then it's only a challenge for you and not for me. How can you tell me that I haven't learned this lesson already by avoiding the duality you create for yourself altogether?


Compassion is the goal of the game.


Prove it. I don't think it's nearly that simple. Everything has its place in the universe, or else I don't see why it would exist in the first place. I don't believe in accidents, either.


Compassion is the integration point, the middle point of the two opposites.


I would sooner say that the "middle point" is perfect equilibrium, and completely non-discriminatory. Real compassion is pure and unconditional, and not judgmental in the least. It takes everything around it just the same. Real compassion for all things is not the same as being pitted in an eternal struggle against "darkness," against which it has obviously passed some judgment. It's the pompous position of judging things as "good" that has pitted itself against the opposite it perceives as "bad," rather than the true middle position of taking it as all the same.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 07:06 PM
link   
reply to post by bsbray11
 


That text is not mine, just wanted your opinion about it.

Good and bad are indeed subjective. I agree.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 07:10 PM
link   
reply to post by bsbray11
 


And one more thing. For me what is important is to accept everything life brings and try to give good use to everything, learn, help, evolve, enjoy etc etc
I think we can agree on this



new topics

top topics



 
18
<< 3  4  5    7  8 >>

log in

join