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Communication Techniques - New Ideas, ramblings, a Final solution

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posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 10:50 PM
OK so I was reading all the "kill switch" thread and a few other threads about what to do if there is no internet.

I think I may have come up with an idea. Those of you familiar with ad-hoc networks this would be your time. I was thinking along the lines of long-range wifi ad-hoc:

Then you have some sort of instant messenger that works with ad-hoc and is independet of the internet: m

If there is an IM client out there that is internet independent please direct me lol (i currently use pidgin)

An alternative to long range wi-fi would be to use wimax which has an even longer range than wifi. I guess making a ad hoc wimax network would be easier given the longer range capabilities of wimax.

I have posted a few links to get people started.

As time goes on, I will post a Detailed tutorial

edit on 23-2-2011 by THE_PROFESSIONAL because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 10:55 PM
ATS members need to set up a network of strings and cups between our homes, so when the internet goes down we can still talk about the NWO, 2012, chemtrails, and all of that fun stuff. Maybe train some pigeons to carry message scrolls between members homes so that we can stay informed, or if that doesn't work we can start up the pony express again and just go old school with writing letters.

posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 10:58 PM
reply to post by TupacShakur

I'm telling you this is the way man. Your computer already has a wifi card, and this will link all the wifi cards together. Try it now with the computers across the house. I was able to send a complete DVD within a few minutes across my house. It is extremely fast wireless communications

posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 11:07 PM
If they killed the internet then probably DNS and IP would be made unreliable.

What we really need is an anonymous, secure, encrypted network that utilized automated routing and packet switching. It would also need to be agnostic to transmission media.

It would have to be written from the ground up and would probably be best to use public key encryption combined with MAC addressing, somehow.

The requirement for anonymity is diametrically opposed to routing requirements. How do you route information to somewhere you can know nothing about?

Ad hoc and cellular networks are only a small part of the overall problem.

edit on 23/2/2011 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 11:17 PM
reply to post by chr0naut

No need to write it from the ground up. If you have join an ad hoc network, you can still send files and data with openPGP which is a public key system.

Just install it on your computer: pgp4win I think it is called.

Make your public key and transmit your data for instance a password to a winrar file via the openPGP software. Send the winrar file then after that. bingo

posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 11:22 PM

Originally posted by TupacShakur
ATS members need to set up a network of strings and cups between our homes, so when the internet goes down we can still talk about the NWO, 2012, chemtrails, and all of that fun stuff. Maybe train some pigeons to carry message scrolls between members homes so that we can stay informed, or if that doesn't work we can start up the pony express again and just go old school with writing letters.

It's close-minded people like you who never think to send smoke signals...that's where TPB get you...they can take my guns but they'll never take my blankets!!

posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 11:30 PM
The problem, though, with ad hoc is that the routing requirements grow with network size.

If the network is ad hoc and using IP and your netmask is set to limit to the standard then you can only have 254 nodes and after that you'd get either IP conflicts or no connections.

You need something that can route from one subnet to another. You'd have to build big IP Tables to translate between ranges & then you'd pretty much come back to exactly what we have now.

posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 11:49 PM
reply to post by chr0naut

Haha I see, hmm damnit I thought we had a good idea. I mean I guess it would have to be like someones laptop you can set to maybe like server mode or something. I was amazed when i was able to transfer gigs of data across my apartment with no internet. I was like, wow this could really be something.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 12:25 AM
Wifi is still a good Idea if you want to communicate with a select few in a secure manner. The best part about it is that it uses inexpensive off the shelf hardware and software. Off the shelf components are key for the success of any post disaster system. Do it yourself types are getting 400km (250miles) (directional, line of sight) Using low power wifi routers and re-tasked satellite TV antennas. It is a pretty good trade off.

By the way the 400km runs are being done with residential grade units such as the popular Linksys WRT54G which pushes only 100mw.

I have done a number of long range projects(mostly video over ip) with the EnGenius EOC5611P and its predecessor the EOC5610. I love them. They can do several kilometers without an external antenna, they are weatherproof, small, push 600mw, are highly configurable, support POE (so you don't have to run a power cord to it) and cost under $100.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 02:27 AM
reply to post by dainoyfb

Hey can you show me how to use a linksys router for adhoc instead of the wireless card in laptop, because taht seems like it doesnt have as much power.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 03:03 AM
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

I actually cannot. Not directly anyway. I’ve never used a Linksys router for a bridge before.

With the Engenius it is easy because it has a setup menu built in for configuring it as a router, bridge, access point, etc. I’m not sure if any of the Linksys products do.

I know the Linksys can be used as a bridge (because that is how some of the range tests were done). It used to be done by updating the router’s firmware with a third party hack basically as described in This description from 2006.

It would surprise me if there are not Linksys products that have a bridge function built into the firmware but you’ll have to find out which ones.

Seriously though why don’t you get a EOC-5610?

Barring that try Googling "wrt54g bridge". There looks like there's lots of advice online about doing a setup.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 03:11 AM
Here is a PDF describing the 400km wifi experiments where they used a linksys wrt54g. It may have some ideas. I haven't read it but it looks like they were using some neat software to work the bridge.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 07:20 PM
As the other dude has pointed out, there is a limit of 254 nodes in a network controlled by your normal off the shelf router.

There is two ways to get more than 254 computers on the network.

If you stick with off the shelf routers, you can go with a branching star topology, then you can have the core router with 254 connected nodes. IP to Those nodes can be computers, or they can be other routers. A router and all computers connected to it will appear as one connected device to the upstream device. Each router can serve an IP range of to

So, that gives you a core router connected to 254 downstream routers, that serve 254 computers each. That yields a maximum of 64,516 connected nodes in a two tier network.

If you hook a router to a second tier router then you can go beyond that. Each one of the third tier networks could serve an IP range of to A three tier system would expand the maximum number of connected devices to 16,387,064.

All upstream IP’s will be addressable by any lower tier node. Your access to other branches of the star are limited by the port forwarding they do in each branch.

At the third tier node, you can enter 192.168.1.X to get any computer on you’re third tier router. You can enter 192.168.0.X to get any computer on the second tier router that your third tier routers runs off of. You can enter 10.0.0.X to get access to any computer or router that is connected to the tier 1 (core) router.
If the router connected to the core router at port forwards port 80 from one of it’s connected computer to it’s wan port, then anyone on the network typing in that ip address will see the web page that the computer on it’s branch is serving.

All that is with off the shelf routers.

The connections to the routers can be wireless or wired. The only thing that has to be enforced is that there is no cross connection between branches. That is because off the shelf routers that you can get at your local best buy do not support multipath routing. So it always has to connect to the greater network via the WAN port. A single point of contact.

If I get enough gumption in a little while, I will type out the basics of laying out a L3 switched network.

edit on 24-2-2011 by Mr Tranny because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 07:25 PM
reply to post by dainoyfb

Oh cool, thanks, yea i also googled "use router as access point" lots of good information as well. I have a spare router lying around, its the old 802.11b format, but im gonna test it out see if my range gets longer.

posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 07:27 PM
reply to post by Mr Tranny

Yea that whole 254 connections things sucks until you layer it like you said. I know there is someone out there who has the brains and know how to do it. Im gonna look into it in my spare time, which is hardly any lol.

posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 07:07 PM
All right……. A multi subnet switched network.

First things first. We must get some L3 managed switches for the backbone. The zyxel, Netgear, HP, D link, juniper,or cisco, brands would be fine.

Zyxel or netgear would be preferable considering that they have DHCP servers built into the switch. Most of the others just have DHCP relay agents..

A single L3 switch will cost around $500 and UP but each switch will support a lot of computers. You don't have to have an L3 switch for every switch in the network. Just the ones that connect subnets.

If your L3 switch does not have a DHCP server Set up each cluster of computers around a simple network switch/hub with their own DHCP server on that network segment. Or you can manually configure the IP of each computer so that all of them fall in the same subnet, but none of them are identical. An old router attached to the main network switch for that segment would do. You don’t have to actually send information through the old router, just set it up so that it can handle IP allocations on that segment. In fact, if you set it up so that you actually send data through it (from one lan port to another), then it may screw up stuff because it will try to route some of the information to the wan port.

Set each DHCP server in the network so that it’s range doesn’t overlap with any other DHCP server. (IE) 192.168.0.X, 192.168.1.X, 192.168.2.X,…..(on and on) All with a subnet mask of

Now that you have each subnet set up. You can hook them to the L3 switches. Hook one port of the L3 switch to each hub/switch of every subnet that will be in the larger network. If a particular subnet will be a heavy bandwidth user, then we can get into trunking, but I won’t.

If your switch supports auto DHCP allocation of each port via the connected DHCP server on that port, then good. Go with it. If not, then set each port of the switch to an IP that is within the subnet of the network connected to that port. (ie) for the 192.168.0.X, network. Make sure that the IP you assign to the switch port is outside the range that the DHCP server can assign for that network segment.

Once you get the backbone switch set up to each subnet then you can set up the VLAN interfaces for each port/subnet. Sometime you have to set up the VLANs before you can assign the IP interfaces for each VLAN. Then……. Turn on routing/RIP for all subnets. That way. A packet coming from subnet….192.168.0.X, that has a destination IP of, can be routed to the 192.168.24.X, subnet.

When you have more than one L3 switch you can place a trunk/backbone connection between them. It can be a single GbEthernet, or it can be multiple aggregated links forming one logical link. Then you turn on RIP for the whole network and let backbone router 1 find out which subnets backbone switch 2 has access to, and send the data destined for those subnets that way(to switch 2).

The connections between networks can be wireless, DSL, Ethernet, or fiber.

If you was really good at setting up a DHCP server then you could set up DHCP relaying on the L3 routers and have all DHCP provisioning done by one computer. Each subnet would have a pool of IP’s to use. The DHCP server would figure out which subnet the computer is on, and from what pool to assign it an IP from depending on which port the switch told it that the computer was on. If the switch got the DHCP request on port 34, it would tag that information onto the DHCP request and forward it to the DHCP server. The DHCP server would look at the request and see that it come from port 34 and go…… “All right, port 34 is subnet 192.168.45.X. The next free ip in that subnet is, so I will assign that IP to the new computer.” Then the DHCP server will send the conformation to the switch which will forward it to the new computer, and everything will go on as normal.

Each one of the 254 computers/nodes on the subnets may be actual computers, or they could be routers, that are serving hundreds more computers. They could be connected to the subnets via wireless, DSL, ISDN, fiber, or Ethernet. Or even dialup for that mater.

Of course, if you go to all that, then you may as well go for a DNS server that everyone in the network can point to so that you can type in human readable addresses for the most accessed pages on the network. Things like which will tell you how the network is laid out and where to find the most active sites on the network.

Now, one may ask, where am I going to get all that crap when the SHTF?……. Well…. If you live in a big city that has large businesses and buildings, then it’s already all around you. The example network I laid out is already a common feature of most large buildings. They already have heavily integrated privet networks. Normally they are laid out so that they have a single, or redundant connection to the internet. If they did shut down the internet, it wouldn’t affect the privately owned systems.

If an internet shutdown did happen, the privately owned networks would still operate fine. You could still access any web page that is hosted in the building proper (on your privet network).

To link those buildings to expand the user base would just entail setting up DSL, wireless, or fiber connection between closely spaced buildings. The switches capable of handling the routing are already in place, you just have to coordinate the subnets, and build the data links. People close to the core group of buildings could gain access via wireless access points which will expand the range and user base of the network island. If any one of the buildings had a dial up provider in it, then people could call into that provider to get access to the local network island that has built up.

If you had access to fiber, or DSL service provider assets then you could quickly lay out a MAN (metropolitan area network)

Some cities already have MANs that are isolated from the internet with a few points of contact to it. Those would still be functional after an internet shutdown. You would just have to find the IP addresses of the websites that are hosted on the MAN in your city. If you want to set up one that other people in the city could use, then set up the server and spread the word about the IP your web page/server has.

The possibilities are only limited by the hardware you can find.

posted on Feb, 28 2011 @ 02:33 PM
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

I actually like this idea, brilliant for your group and the plethora of mobile devices around (android / win7 phones / tablets) that could also take advantage of this.

getting your own chat server up and running is pretty easy (look to irc) or look to c# and codeplanet for a bunch of pre made peer to peer chat applications (its sooooo easy!)

and best thing of all you could have a centralised data center in a secure location with your files / media on to boost moral. Given solar chargers are pretty efficient now charging a tablet would be easy!

kudos for the novel approach sir! stuff like ip address distribution you can avoid by running a DHCP server on the "server" laptop, just like windows server does for any intranets.Folk connect to your network they get given an IP address using your subnet mask just like a normal network. Mind you, are you planning on giving several 100 people access to your network?!

- this has got me thinking now!! time to whip up some code to see what's capable! - it'd be like having your own secure(well secure-ish - not many folk know how to packet inject to hack a wifi network) intranet, you could even hand out login id's to people to access specific areas of your network! but you'd have to call it something epic!!

not to mention remote surveillance, control of other systems! - hmmmmmm just because the fits hit the shan doesnt mean we can't be geeky still!!

edit on 28-2-2011 by MarkThorson because: (no reason given)

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