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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Gerizo
What you have just described is a situation and atmospheric condition when the temperature and RH are conducive to CIRRUS cloud formation too.....the contrails, once they are made, just add to the mix. Nature does the rest.
You don't deny that cirrus clouds form, right? You as much said so. Then, why is it so hard to realize the reality of contrails (also, basically, a type of cirrus cloud) contributing and adding to what Mother Nature can do on her own??
Too bad people are taken in so readily by the hoaxers who prey on ignorance and fear......
(A visit in person with someone who is an expert, and you will then verify.....because so many just don't seem to "get it" from anonymous people online who know what they're talking about....odd, since those same will believe ANY crackpot "chem"-trail pusher, even if they've never met....hmmmmm....anyway, try to find some professionals and experts. Local University, for example. Go to the library, look up some meteorology books. Prepare to learn....).
-The evidence indicates that the direct radiative effects of contrails display the potential for regional climate change at many midlatitude locations
-Their effects can be both direct, in that aircraft condensation trails (contrails) can persist to create new
or supplement existing cirrus, or indirect, wherein aircraft emissions can modify the chemistry, aerosols,
and water vapor budget of the comparatively clean and dry UT
-contrails fill a niche forbidden to cirrus clouds formed under the usual adiabatic process. The reason that contrail humidities would not be expected to exceed the Sassen–Dodd relation is that, once formed along the solid line, cirrus cloud growth tends to deplete the excess water vapor
-Obviously, the information provided here indicates that contrail-cirrus should not generally be treated as natural cirrus, particularly with regard to the dissimilar radiative effects produced by the numerous small ice particles inhabiting many contrails
- Contrails are of importance for aviation because of their visibility, and because of their potential climate impact
-Persistent contrails form in ice-supersaturated air masses. In such cases often contrail cirrus forms where no cirrus would form otherwise because ice supersaturation is often too low for natural cirrus particle nucleation
- liquid water droplets form, by condensation of water vapour mainly on soot and volatile particles in the exhaust plume. Saturation with respect to ice is not sufficient for contrail formation
- Aircraft engines emit hot exhaust gases containing mainly water vapour and carbon dioxide, and
small amounts of nitrogen oxides, hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, sulphuric oxides (oxidation products
of sulphur containing molecules included in aviation fuels), some organic material (partially condensable),
and chemi-ions (charged molecular clusters formed during combustion in the engine), soot
(organic and black carbon) and possibly small metal particles (from mechanical erosion)
-Soot particles emitted from aircraft engines contain fuel impurities (including sulfur compounds)
and have experienced strong oxidation before leaving the combustion chamber and hence are mostly
hydrophilic in contrast to pure black carbon particles [22-24]. By coating with sulphuric acid, soot
particles may become even better suited as condensation nuclei.liquid particles acting as condensation nuclei depends also on the presence of chemi-ions which support coagulation of the initially forming very small particles [4, 25]. The amount, size and composition of emitted and entrained particles influence the number of ice particles in the contrail
-Observations during SUCCESS have shown that the particles that make up "young" contrails are typically smaller and more numerous than cirrus cloud particles. The microphysical signal of contrail particles may contain clues to the evolution of contrails, and their interaction with cirrus cloud.
-...coverage remained in all three cases after 5 to 9 hours. Additional re-growth or continued dissipation is possible. Assumptions about contrails remaining in the air routes are not supported by these results. Contrail cloudiness can advect considerable distances from their source, substantially increasing the area affected by manmade clouds.
-the contrails are composed of small ice crystals that are less than half the size of the nearby cirrus clouds.
-After examining the bulk of the mass spectra, we have found numerous examples of aerosols containing a variety of chemical species, including ammonium sulfate (and/or bisulfate), ammonium nitrate, sodium sulfate (and/or bisulfate), sulfuric acid (most notably while following the 757), calcium nitrate, and sodium bicarbonate
Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by MathiasAndrew
well take it with a grain of salt , some do know how to push ones buttons , and thank you ,any ways this is one video we all need to see or shall i say, a series of them wn.com... and then this, how reliable???? but i will post nonetheless en.wikipedia.org...
and then there is chaff, www.freepatentsonline.com...
ok so now why all the hub bub well what are breathing? air or CHEMICALS???? www.carnicom.com... www.nogw.com... " this is safe and harmless spray, you can let your kids play in it" add from 1940-50's DDT like this add for DDT www.whale.to...
edit on 1-3-2011 by bekod because: added linkedit on 1-3-2011 by bekod because: added info. and word edit.edit on 1-3-2011 by bekod because: (no reason given)edit on 1-3-2011 by bekod because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Seagle
I feel so, so sorry for you. A bit of puzzlement, as well.....
....you open that post with the usual rants that "contrails can't persist", then you post text from your sources that SAY EXACTLY THAT!!!! Did you not actually read those statments? They mostly discuss the effects of persisitent contrails on climate. It is something that many climate scientists are interested in.
But, none of them are of any other opinion, but that the contrails that form, and can (sometimes) persist, are nothing other than contrails. Water vapor that condenses into liquid, and nearly instantly then freezes to form ice crystals. That is it.
It is truly amazing, how simple this is, and how ridiculously over complicated the "chemmies" have made it out to be.....well, THAT is how they fool the ignorant and gullible, and keep their hoax going.....so sad.
edit on 1 March 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)
that is all that i am saying any thing could be a chem trial
Also disclosed is a related method of forming such articles, comprising chemical vapor depositing the oxidizable metal coating on the substrate and contacting the metallized substrate with a sol gel dispersion of the inorganic electrically insulative material which then is dried under suitable conditions to form the microporous layer on the substrate. When utilized in a form comprising fine diameter substrate elements such as glass or ceramic filaments, the resulting product may usefully be employed as an evanescent chaff. In the presence of atmospheric moisture, such evanescent chaff undergoes oxidation of the oxidizable metal coating so that the radar signature of the chaff transiently decays.
you were saying???? the above is from the link posted, some just do not read.
There are two types of chaff, aluminum foil and aluminum-coated glass fibers. The foil type is no longer manufactured, although it remains in the inventory and is used primarily by B-52 bombers. Both types are cut into dipoles ranging in length from 0.3 to over 2.0 inches. They are made as small and light as possible so they will remain in the air long enough to confuse enemy radar. The aluminum foil dipoles are 0.45 mils (0.00045 inches) thick and 6 to 8 mils wide. The glass fiber dipoles are generally 1 mil (25.4 microns) in diameter, including the aluminum coating which is 0.12 f 0.06 mils thick. A new superfine glass fiber chaff is being manufactured that is 0.7 mil (17.8 microns) in diameter.
The materials in chaff are generally nontoxic except in quantities significantly larger than those any human or animal could reasonably be exposed to from chaff use.
The potential for chaff to affect soil and water is remote. Levels of use and accumulation would have to be extremely high to generate any significant adverse effects. Laboratory tests of chaff, using a modified toxic characteristics leaching procedure, indicated little or no potential for adverse effects on soil.
No adverse impacts on biological resources have been identified. Since chaff is generally nontoxic, toxicity-related impacts on wildlife are not anticipated.
then on the flip side
he glass fiber dipoles are generally 1 mil (25.4 microns) in diameter, including the aluminum coating which is 0.12 f 0.06 mils thick. A new superfine glass fiber chaff is being manufactured that is 0.7 mil (17.8 microns) in diameter.
The FAA has placed more stringent restrictions on DOD use of any type of chaff that operates within the bands used by air traffic control radar and navigational systems. In taking the more conservative approach to air traffic control and flight safety, FAA has limited or placed restrictions on the locations, altitudes, and/or time periods within which specific types of chaff can be employed.
Originally posted by bekod
so let see all of you explain this pat www.freepatentsonline.com... that is if you can note the date.