Why Do You Still Believe in 2012?

And for those who were wondering how could humanity's consciousness could shift in one day...

It is possible. Let's say a big event happen, Nibiru, alien landing, disclosure on human history, a new economics system...There are a lot of things that can shift humanity's consciousness over a single day.

Oh dear god, if NASA is denying it then it must be true!


Head for the hills!

Well timewave zero for me, The mayan calendar just backs it up. Fractal time is winding up tighter and tighter now as it approaches the singularity. All i say to doubters is, WATCH now as events around the world pack in hard and fast with no let up, accelerating as we move forward. Everything that is our "civilization" is going to unravel.

Originally posted by [davinci]
reply to post by Xcalibur254

 

Sorry, but for 3 days last year NASA's web page ran a story about how most solar systems are binary so it was reasonable to assume that ours is too.

The story was COMPLETELY removed from their archives.

So no one is allowed to make a mistake? If you told me that every crow you ever saw was black, so it's safe to assume they're all black I'd probably shrug my shoulders and agree because every crow I ever saw was black as well. I don't think I know anyone, personally, who has seen a white crow. It's a safe assumption. Now, when I make such an assumption it would be wise to also note that since you've not proven this, I should also be open to the possibility that you're wrong. So when evidence that goes against your assumption is provided I should have every right to change my mind. I should be allowed to accept the truth.

Add to this the fact that there is a TREMENDOUS amount of money being spent to build or deploy planetary and orbital observatories not just survey the southern hemisphere but in many cases to do so in spectra beyond visible light.

Oh, so we've completely forgotten the northern hemisphere now? Is that so? What about the fact that we're currently building a northern hemisphere observatory?

www.spacedaily.com...

The RCC is one such organisation spending millions to study GOD's work in the universe, but only what HE did in the south.

Hmm... I can't find any credible news source saying they're exclusively focused on the southern hemisphere. Care to provide me with some evidence?

Odd coincidence that there are histories from several cultures over time that talk about an object approaching from the south and causing global havoc.

They all mention non-existent gods and a global flood too. Doesn't really prove those things.

It's odd that you mention that the solar max is going to be weaker than thought, the last I checked on this the word from physicists and NASA scientists was that they had screwed up the math and things were going to actually be much worse then predicted.

Yes I did read about this. It's interesting news. Right now I'm not sure what to think. If you're a conspiracy theorist you'd expect this kind of thing to have never been announced... which makes me really question what is being said. I'm currently awaiting further information. It's an oddity to me at the moment.

Is there any advantage to clouding the waters?

Who is clouding the waters? All I'm saying is that we have absolutely no reason to panic. But we'll see. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm man enough to admit when I could be wrong. I guess the future will tell.

Originally posted by [davinci]
Do some research on this topic perhaps.

Yes, 2012 is the end date for the Mayan calender at which point it resets and starts over. The calendar is meant to track, for the Mayan's, a time of change. Too many focus on the world ending without realizing that it is actually 'the world as we know it'.

THINK for a minute...why do you create a calendar? Is it not possible that there is a recurring series of events that someone in history decided might be worth tracking? Given the Roman Catholic Church's willingness to destroy the historical records of the 'godless heathens' it encountered it is more then possible that the ancients left us a vast amount of information which has been systematically collected, hidden or just flat out destroyed.

We just got lucky and some of the Mayan histories/artifacts survived this policy and remained in the public eye.

Look around, in the last year NASA has stated that we may be part of a binary system, there may be an object out in the Oort cloud, there is a high possiblity that we will suffer catastrophic solar flares, there is a possible pole flip in progress, our solar system is approaching the galactic plane...

These are not ancient 'savages' or religious fanatics; this is current science using state-of-the-art tech discovering that there is something going on beyond 'Dancing with the Stars' new season.

Now look at what is going on here on Earth...Large numbers of volcanos returning to life across the global, earthquakes every where, storms are getting more severe (even worse then admitted since both hurricanes and earthquakes have had thier ranking system adjusted...under the original system we'd be seeing ALOT more Cat 5 hurricanes and mag 8-9 earthquakes being reported).

Now look at the calendar.

Check out Wikipeadia concerning natural disasters over the years as a starting point, you will see CLEARLY that every 3600ish years there are series of disasters that hit our world in rapid sequence.

According to some quick math, we are in the window now ( there is a discrpency of about 50 years; we are either 10 years into the window or 40 years before it...the fact that western calendars have changed so many times over the centuries/millenia makes it hard to accurately place where we are in the cycle. On the other hand, since most of the changes have made the calendars LONGER it is safe to assume that we ARE in the period now).

I started down the 2012 path decades ago because I wanted to see what believers were talking about.

What I have found shows me there is substantially more to this story then is being told. To find out info you have to look for it, and look hard. In the end any person with an open mind cannot hold any other opinion then MAYBE.

The problem is, in todays society of instant gratification, few people can be bothered spending hundreds of hours searching for clues or facts.

There are large numbers of both, if you look.

Very nicely put. It's a shame both debunkers and even some believers don't take this advice.

Everything is always a big "maybe" since nobody can really predict a future event, merely look back at what happened in the same time periods of history and make guess work BUT.....to say it's nothing to worry about and it's a load of bunk is being ignorant of the potential (in which case, since it's debunked in your mind, leave the subject well alone, what more do you have to gain from jumping in constantly after making up your own mind that it's bogus?)

To jump in with little evidence and saying it's real is also unhelpful because like good presentations, you need all the materials you can acquire otherwise it gets passed off as a "nothing to see here" discussion.

Originally posted by aletheia
The world as we know it will not come to an end, a brown dwarf star will not wreak havoc on the Earth. Period. 2012 will come and go just as any other year. If you believe otherwise you seriously need to learn something called the scientific method.

Here is a little Wiki link for you:
en.wikipedia.org...

So why do you believe? Why do you focus on this negative fantasy? Why not spend your time and effort focusing on something positive and grounded in actual reality? Go enjoy life, spend time with friends and family, volunteer to help the homeless! Anything but worry over superstitious silliness.

funny... people like you hop onto ATS and within a month are thinking they've got all the answers from all the right sources.

I strongly recommend that you chill for a few more months.. do a TON more research.. then start drawing some conclusions...

many people actually think of 2012 as a transition .. an evolutionary leap that human's bodies will take with the mass activation of our pineal glands.. check out David Wilcox's "2012 enigma" on youtube.. or his new "event horizon" presentations...

neither of them have anything to do with cataclysms or doomsday...


many many people understand this 2012 shift to be something positive not negative. about the second coming of christ (but understanding christ as plural.. as US ALL not just one dude in a beard and gown..) meaning we evolve to a higher body that has more abilities...

also...so why do you trust nasa anyway??
do you actually buy into the idea that the government doesn't lie?

I applaud you on using the Scientific Method. That's a very valuable thing to have learned... I'm glad you're past the fifth grade like the rest of us...


now stop being condescending and go catch up on your 2012 reading before you come crying back here smugly with your "NASA said so NASA said sooooo!"


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reply to post by prevenge


I've been a member here for about a year... give or take.

reply to post by aletheia


When I started looking into this idea I focused only on what has been said in the last 50-100 years by scientists. I based my research on what was being said TODAY about this possible event by those who SHOULD know.

When I started looking at the rest of history however things quickly lost thier simplicity.

There is more to our history then is taught under government approved school classes, or investigated by funded researchers on government authorized archeology digs. The fact is that this entire topic is off limits to mainstream science. It's not just that there is no funding; anyone who starts down this path finds themselves marginalized and in most cases unemployed as well.

Why is that?

When long term, painstaking research is done, it becomes apparent that this topic is governed more by agenda then the search for truth. You have to realize that if this was openly admitted as being real then our system would collapse.

In the case of a disaster, government would have to manage, not control. People would focus on preparing for thier survival instead of buying useless crap they don't really need. Our entire civilization would shift it's focus and the 'elite' would not be able to hoard money/resources for themselves...everything would be diverted towards the survival of as many as possible.

Humanity would band together in a way that no one in power wants us to.

I know you seemed irritated by people who go for the quick fix searches and you researched for decades yourself but I'd be very interested to know at least the basis of your findings and what we could/should do since it's supposedly a year and a half at least away.

reply to post by curious7


The easiest is find high ground, at least a mile above sea level.

The second option is to get underground.

The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a single event that needs to be prepared for. It looks very much like there are several things that can happen based on several different cycles over differing amounts of time.

The 3600 year cycle ALWAYS involves floods, earthquakes and volcanos. All of these events can be explained by gravitational stresses on the planet. Survivng histories (including the Christian Bible) talk about an object passing by us...the names are different but the idea is the same.

I can see how the story of Judgement Day could come from such an event...a object appears in the sky, the world is thrown into massive geologic turmoil (the specifics based on where/how close the object comes) most die, some live. Not hard to see how early peoples could view that as a GOD judging those below from the sky above.

This would also explain a coverup as this has, over time become a major component of servel religions.

The next thing is the duration...although a passing object may come and go relatively quick, the effects on the planet would have both a build up and wind down phase.

3-7 years seems to be the recurring theme.

Preparation?

Barring a rapture/trancendence type event for some, you need to be ready to live without vitually all of the modern worlds advances, possiblly for the rest of your life.

The biggest problems are not finding the information, but trying to interpret ancient writtings and descriptions into what is meant in today's language.

The best thing to do is be aware that this MIGHT be real. Learn what the signs are (like current natural events) and then be ready to go, NOW, when there is no longer any question. Make preparations either by getting things ready, or just research what you will need so you are ready to roll in a short amount of time.

I'm already late leaving for work, gotta leave it there for now.

What about a self fulfilling prophecy? I don't have any evidence to support and I stress this is all conjecture, but with all the world talking about 2012 why hasn't the human element been introduced into these discussions? who's to say in 2012 some secret organisation (not the mystery ones like illuminati, known ones like ANON or Wikileaks etc) don't release information on nukes or systems, that some other secret organisation (aka terrorist organisation) take advantage of and use for revenge? thus initiating WW3.
I know it's all fantasy but the point i am trying to make with that is Humans could find a way to make 2012 a year of destruction because they have been told it will be. theres a psychological term for self fulfilling prophecies but it's slipped my head now.

You can read up more on Wiki here : Self-Fulfilling Prophecies

reply to post by [davinci]

Look around, in the last year NASA has stated that we may be part of a binary system, there may be an object out in the Oort cloud, there is a high possiblity that we will suffer catastrophic solar flares, there is a possible pole flip in progress, our solar system is approaching the galactic plane...

If Tyche exists, the object suggested by people not in NASA, we would not be in a binary system since it is a planet sized object. xcaliber254 addressed the other issues.

The problem is, in todays society of instant gratification, few people can be bothered spending hundreds of hours searching for clues or facts.

It's true that there are a large number of facts and they point away from 2012 claims.

Large numbers of volcanos returning to life across the global, earthquakes every where, storms are getting more severe

Volcanic activity has been stable over the past 40 years. Earthquakes are not more common.

Storms more severe? How is that being measured? Is the measurement wind speed, dollars, people affected, rain amount, or what?

reply to post by [davinci]

Check out Wikipeadia concerning natural disasters over the years as a starting point, you will see CLEARLY that every 3600ish years there are series of disasters that hit our world in rapid sequence.

This claim has been made a number of times and each time I've looked into I see nothing. Explain to me how you came to this conclusion.

reply to post by [davinci]

For 3 days last year NASA's web page ran a story about how most solar systems are binary so it was reasonable to assume that ours is too.

Back some 20 years ago a study of 140 nearby star systems with solar type stars showed that 2/3 were binary. Since then more information has been collected about stars of all types. Most stars are not in binary systems.

The story was COMPLETELY removed from their archives.

It's more likely that you having search problems. That happens to everyone and does not mean that the material is missing. It simply means you cannot find it.

Solar max prediction is definitely down and has been that way for well over a year.

Odd coincidence that there are histories from several cultures over time that talk about an object approaching from the south and causing global havoc.

Can you give some information on this? I personally unaware of any such claims regardless of the direction of approach.

for evey supporting fact there is also one that counters it.

I don't believe that is correct. It can't be a fact. Do you mean evidence to support claims? The so-called evidence used to support an incoming planet is based on vague notions and misrepresentations whenever I have examined any of these so-called facts. More direct studies such as gravity studies and EM studies show that there is no incoming planet.

Who's right? Can't say, but the good news is this actually is something that can be resolved by just waiting it out.

Tell that to the Millerites. The issue can be resolved right now by looking. Every time these claims have failed there has been waffling and the date gets changed. More waffling and more changes.

reply to post by curious7

Everything is always a big "maybe" since nobody can really predict a future event

There are lots of things that can be predicted and done well. Ancient civilizations got pretty good at predicting eclipses. They were able to do this with simple instruments and keen thinking. Incredibly accurate predictions are possible today. Occultations of stars by asteroids can be done with great accuracy. Tide tables are printed up a season in advance. Lots of accurate predictions can be made.

reply to post by [davinci]


Frankly I find all of your claims in the post fantastic and well removed from reality.
1. People are not marginalized by researching. They are rewarded for it.
2. The claim that research is controlled by agendas is a silly Hollywood style theme for making B movies.
3. When have collapses been due to new discoveries?

Marginalized researchers are those that follow lines of thinking that they can see are false, but do so to promote personal agendas. Marginalized researchers find themselves in that position because they stop publishing or doing research.

reply to post by [davinci]

The 3600 year cycle ALWAYS involves floods, earthquakes and volcanos. All of these events can be explained by gravitational stresses on the planet. Survivng histories (including the Christian Bible) talk about an object passing by us...the names are different but the idea is the same.

I've looked for the 3600 year cycle and it does not exist. Sorry.
Gravitational stresses do NOT lead to earthquakes and volcanoes. The evidence is very much against that suggestion.
There is no evidence for a global flood.
Since earthquakes happen all of the time and there are active volcanoes all of the time of course it is possible to say ALWAYS.
I suppose to claim histories you consider myths to be history. That is what Velikovsky did to write up his Worlds in Collision. It was a good idea to try, but turns out to be wrong.

The best thing to do is be aware that this MIGHT be real.

Actually the evidence is stacked up heavily against this claim. An unknown planet entering the orbits of the known planets is not possible. Gravity studies have eliminated that possibility. Instead of worrying about the demonstrably impossible, people should spend their time dealing with the possible.

Stereologist, I'd like you to produce some evidence of your claims as you demand from everyone else.

I am in the consciousness shift boat - to the people that are thinking "its not like everyone's mind will suddenly change" - it hasn't been sudden. Its taken million of years. Its happening right now and the rate is increasing all the time. Just look around you, notice the changes within your own lifetime.

IMO the reason it seems unlikely is because we are IN it right now. Its harder to see when you are in amoungst it.

The other explanation as others have mentioned is that a sudden event could occur which instantly changes the world's mindset. Don't believe me? Just look at 9/11 - regardless of how/who/what/why it was carried out, it effectively instantly altered the global consciousness. It could happen again.

reply to post by Cecilofs


What do you mean by a consciousness shift? This term is rather vague and seems to be used for different purposes by different users of the term.

Since you bring up 9/11 you can always tell us how your use of the term fits with 9/11.

NASA is a front for TPTB - quite a bit of disinformation. Not a reliable source. I know I am an Honor physics graduate.