Has the United States Supreme Court just legalized collateral murder?, page 2

reply to post by yeahright

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So, according to that fund, and the Supreme Court's decision, all vaccine manufacturers pay a certain amount of fees or taxes into this fund, their cost is established upfront, and then any potential lawsuits or wrong-doing are paid out of the fund.

That seems like a recipe for disaster. Vaccine makers are for-profit establishments, and there is no risk associated with cutting corners or taking chances to enhance profit potential. On the one hand they are responsible to share holders and investors, and on the other hand they are not responsible to anybody for mistakes. That system cannot work in a free-market society. Usually the profit potential is weighed against the liability potential, and the product is derived in such a manner to maximize profit vs. risk. It is still a little dirty, but it has some semblence of reason. When we establish a blanket fund and blanket immunity, we eliminate all risk, and the companies only concern is profit.

Then we wonder why there are so many reports and conspiracies surrounding vaccines.

In my opinion the vaccines are only 1/2 the problem though. They other 1/2 is the way they are administered. Giving 4 or 6 shots into a 5 month old infant is bad practice. My son was only about 5 lbs at 5 months old, he was barely out of the hospital from his premature birth, and a major heart surgery, but his peditrician decided it was ok to give him 5 shots, split between both of his bony little thighs. The next day is demeanor changed, within a week he had developed Infantile Spasms with a very bad prognosis. Of course, there was no way to connect it to the vaccines, even though I did prove the Multi-Dose vials contained Thimerosal. Luckily for my child, we got him top-notch care, and we found the best Neurologist in the country works out of Shand's in Gainesville, and within a year or so my child made a full recovery. Several of the kids that shared his diagnosis didn't partake of the same doctor and have since passed on, or are battling major disabilities.

So, vaccines can cause harm, there is potential for contamination, there is potential for fraud, and there is a major problem with common practice of administering vaccines. There needs to be more harsh repercussions for these issues.

reply to post by ohioriver

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The company that released contaminated flu virus material from a plant in Austria confirmed Friday that the experimental product contained live H5N1 avian flu viruses.

That was Baxter Labs.

The interesting point is that the experimental product contained live H5N1 avian flu viruses should not have been any where NEAR that plant. cGMP protocols are very very strict. For example, labels are kept under lock and key, and not one but two people must count and sign out all labels. Unused labels are signed in and the number used, destroyed and returned are reconciled with the amount of product produced.

Given the tight security, there is no way in hades an experimental product would be allowed on the same property, much less in the same building as production material, at least not in the USA. Te experimental stuff is kept completely separate in a separate building and usually in a separate location to prevent cross contamination.

reply to post by getreadyalready

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reply to post by getreadyalready

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I think it is important for parents to know to second guess their pediatrician. And quite possibly some of the liability should be placed on the pediatricians in these cases? As much as I dislike big Pharma I do also believe the Pediatricians and physicians in general really need to have a better idea of the medications they are prescribing and the vaccines they are recommending rather than simply following the company line.

I always thought that giving physicians a greater liability for the meds and vaccinations they prescribe would be one of the better ways to help keep big pharma honest.

My daughter had quite a few medical issues and I refused to accept certain vaccines. I essentially did a risk analysis figuring the chances of getting the ailment being vaccinated for and the negative consequences of the ailment being vaccinated for. I am completely opposed to vaccines for non-lethal ailments. I really think this is something the pediatricians should lay out for each person but they are still as a group pretty much going to deny any negative consequences of vaccines.

Originally posted by yeahright
reply to post by getreadyalready

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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I disagree. Risk hasn't even been close to eliminated, at all. What's the alternative, allow everyone who ever gets a vaccine to potentially drag a case into open court? Companies wouldn't even have to lose. The cost of fighting and winning would be prohibitive. Exorbitant settlement costs would factor into the price of all medicines.

There are plenty of impediments to bringing new products to market now, with R&D costs being what they are. Want to ensure no new drugs and treatments are ever developed? Take the profit out of it.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

I can totally get on board with that argument, as long as we give the same consideration to all other start up businesses that are are strapped with costly liability insurance and legal fees and often fail before they ever start. We also have to consider an alternative for Doctors and Nurses that are choosing early retirement over exorbitant malpractice insurance costs.

So, your argument has merit, as long as it is applied across the board to all business people. It is unfair to only give this consideration to large pharmaceutical companies. If we tackle all of Tort Reform, then I can support it, but not just vaccine makers.

reply to post by yeahright

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I've been involved in some Pharmaceutical studies, my degree in Chemistry is from FSU, which takes in more patent money than MIT, and it comes primarily from pharmaceuticals. I know how the studies, the side effects, and the research goes down. My job is also involves pharmaceuticals and doctors, so I am intimately involved with how they are regulated and how the government goes about quality assurance. Unfortunately, I know nothing about the manufacturing process or regulations, so I cannot comment on those.

From my experience, I do not think it would be difficult to have similar quality assurance standards from a Taco Truck guy, to a Stock Broker, to a Medical Doctor, to a Pharmacy Tech, to a giant Pharmaceutical Company. The Taco Truck guy is affecting people's health with his practices, he falls under merchant laws, city ordinances, health inspection codes, zoning laws, worker's comp regulation, etc., etc. He has an enormous overhead just to sell some $0.50 tacos, and he still runs the risk of being sued or fined or closed down or robbed or wiped out by a tornado. His profit potential is on par with his overhead and risk. The Pharmaceutical Industry has an enormous upfront investment, but also an enormous profit potential, they have the same risks and regulations as the Taco Guy, and their costs are on par with their profit potential. They are showing massive profits year after year, so they are doing OK for themselves.

In my opinion, Doctors....and especially Nurses, get the biggest shaft in the whole deal. They make good livings, but they are not elaborately rich, they have enormous risk potential, exorbitant insurance costs, strict regulations, and duties to report just about anything in their life to numerous oversight boards and regulating entities. They are literally being run out of business, but the drug companies can manipulate facts, take calculated risks knowing there is a danger, and get away with it? They can turn huge profits, and then claim immunity when something goes wrong? It isn't fair. Like I said, the fund is useful for the families of victims and accidents, but the immunity for the companies is not fair, unless we can apply it across the board to all business people.

Perhaps every industry needs a bulk fund to protect them from litigation, and then we wouldn't even need Tort Reform, we would make Torts obsolete?

reply to post by getreadyalready

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reply to post by yeahright

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I agree, the title of "collateral murder" is overly dramatic, and I do not think the law or the ruling are doing anything near that. At worst, I think it is an unfair business practice, but nothing near murder.

I also agree that the intent of the laws is to provide the best healthcare possible. There is no secret genocide or depopulation agenda at play. The vaccines help exponentially more people than they hurt, so I agree on the intent of the law when it was written.

I disagree with the Supreme Court's ruling, because it serves as a precendent that will result in "blanket" immunity. No attorney will take on a case knowing that any settlement will probably be overturned on appeal because of this precedent and interpretation, so the result is no new lawsuits. This may be an argument against the entire judicial system relying so heavily on precedents rather than an argument against this particular ruling though.

reply to post by yeahright

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I think the bad part is not the ruling itself, but that the ruling upheld the law, and the law establishes a set fund for all pharmaceutical companies to pay into, and that fund is like an insurance against lawsuits.

They get blanket immunity. It doesn't necessarily harm the consumer at the outset, but it sets up a system where the companies that take the most shortcuts and risks get the most profit. The competition to survive as a company means taking more and more risks and shortcuts, and since your have a set fee for liability, there is no negative repercussion for that risk taking. It rewards the companies with the worst practices, because all the companies pay the same fees. The litigation system has an element of unknown liability, so the risk is amplified and the incentive is to limit that risk. With this law, the risk is eliminated and the incentive is to maximize profit and beat your competitor to the marketplace. Thereby rewarding the shadiest business practices with the highest profit.

reply to post by marg6043

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Complain complain complain!

It really won't matter how much we complain because making vaccines mandatory for every person will happen. It will happen under the pretense of public health and that it hurts others if you don't get vaccinated.

I've already seen the argument that when not enough people are vaccinated that gives the disease time to adapt and begin to effect the vaccinated people. Making yourself a carrier (as the argument goes) because you don't have a vaccine makes you a public health hazard and dangerous. Therefore everyone who isn't vaccinated is posing a serious threat to the public health of everyone and will need to be forcibly vaccinated in order to save society as a whole.

I disagree with this completely. I think people are turning into weaklings and being protected from everything under the sum makes us more vulnerable every generation, thins out and weakens us a species. We grew up in adversity and in peace we will die.

www.tetrahedron.org...

check out the vid inset on flu vaxx on this page. I love Dr Horowitzs books and materials on vaccines and other issues.

here is a list of articles on vaccines on the tetrahedron site www.tetrahedron.org...

reply to post by Angelicdefender2012

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the sUPREME cOURT justifies the existance of itself over and above the population in a few cases ..this being one. The good of the many is supreme to the good of the one. No matter how many the one adds up to.

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