Prank call proves billionaire David Koch owns Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and the GOP, page 19

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reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 02:11 AM by poet1b

reply to post by zappafan1

Wow you post some ignorant garbage!

Once again, lets see some links to back up your claims, because I have looked at the numbers many times, and the U.S. remains the best place to invest, and U.S. workers are the highest skilled and most productive.

The U.S. work force is the GOLD STANDARD for production. Always has been, and continues to be. Just a decade ago, when other first world nations were just beginning to catch up, U.S. worker productivity accelerated, leaving foreign workers even further behind.

Back in the eighties, boomers were laughing all over themselves calling Gen X a bunch of slackers, they attended poor quality U.S. schools, and all that other nonsense. Then Gen X pioneered the internet and reinvented the world. The early pioneers were kids not yet out of college. In those days, most programmers in Silicon Valley never graduated from college, many never attended, except for a few community college classes.

Where will the next wave of technological innovation come from? Where is the current wave of technological innovation coming from?

The U S of A baby.

So what, more foreign born students take like ducks to water to the conformist propaganda taught in our colleges. They make good slaves, which is why, in the countries were they came from, most people are slaves.

Yeah, Wisconsin always been a very progressive state, and at the same time a very economically successful state. What gives you the right to slam Wisconsin with your ignorance?

www.bls.gov...

www.ilo.org...

What’s more, the report also shows that the productivity gap between the US and most other developed economies continued to widen. The acceleration of productivity growth in the US has outpaced that of many other developed economies: With US$ 63,885 of value added per person employed in 2006, the United States was followed at a considerable distance by Ireland (US$ 55,986), Luxembourg (US$ 55,641), Belgium (US$ 55,235) and France (US$ 54,609).

reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 08:22 AM by zappafan1

reply to post by poet1b

I'm not doing your research for you; I do that enough. The info on first link you provide is over ten years old, and therefore irrelevant. The vast majority of new jobs today are service industry jobs, as has been pointed out many people, even on the alphabet news channels.

Your second link is from, no surprise, a union source. Ha Ha Ha Ha.

True, America has a lead in productivity, but it has stalled somewhat, because of the service jobs, and because the youth of today have virtually no work ethic.

It's not "conformist" propaganda being taught, it's socialist.

you wrote: "....Yeah, Wisconsin always been a very progressive state, and at the same time a very economically successful state. What gives you the right to slam Wisconsin with your ignorance?"

I live here, and my family has lived here since 1880. The term "progressive" means now exactly what it meant when it was a code word in the 1950's.... "Communist"

From your previous post, read it again; I never said that teachers set the curriculum.

So, you come from a Blue state, which means you've been indoctrinated from youth; at least you admit it.

You have friends???

Well, I do have a soft spot, albeit a small one, for the unfortunate (although I give a great deal to charity,) so later I'll find some of the info for you and provide links. However, I have a business to run (I actually work for a living, and get dirty, too,) so It'll be later this evening.

And, it's time the colors of the two parties switched, as the Left is more in line with the "Red" mentality. I've seen it happen over the past 50 years. So sad.

edit on 3-3-2011 by zappafan1 because: Added content

reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 01:37 PM by Daughter2

Originally posted by zappafan1
reply to post by poet1b

Well, I do have a soft spot, albeit a small one, for the unfortunate (although I give a great deal to charity,) so later I'll find some of the info for you and provide links. .
edit on 3-3-2011 by zappafan1 because: Added content

I can't argue with you when you say you only care a little about the unfortunate. Most rich people don't care - even upper middle class has very little empathy. The "charity" to the rich doesn't always translate into providing for the less fortunate. For example, the Koch brothers give a lot to the ballet and do things like lend their art for display. Maybe this is charity to the IRS but they do nothing to provide a safety net.

Part of this is about ethics and part about money. Part of my ethics believes, society should provide a safety net for all people. I don't think people should starve, be homeless or go without medical care. And I think it's ethical to force people to give to this safety net. (Just as I think it's ok to force people to pay for a road they might not use). I would feel this way regardless of whether the overall wealth was made greater.

But even if you only care about $$$$, it still makes financial sense to society to allow unions and not to drive down wages. There's plenty of history to show an increase in wages actually makes society as a whole richer. When unions were at the height of their power the economy was booming. And there are plenty of countries which provide social service nets that are doing great.

I often wondered why people still want to drive down wages in spite of historical data. In fact, I wondered why business didn't stop problems which seemed so obvious. Things like the tech bubble, pension underfunding, housing bubble, and lack of independent audits - all problems which were known about far before they spun out of control.

Then I realized to the super-rich, it's not about getting richer - it's about becoming more powerful. If you want to become powerful, you put enough spread between you and the rest of the population.

reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 02:26 PM by poet1b

reply to post by zappafan1

The U.S. continues to be the most productive society on the planet. You don't like my sources, too bad, it doesn't change the fact, and anyone even moderately informed knows that what I am saying about U.S. productivity is true.

The service sector will continue to be the biggest source of new jobs, because or the simple fact that productivity has increased to the point where fewer and fewer people are need to produce the goods needed and enjoyed by society. Modern technology has gotten to the point were we can easily produce enough goods for all of us to live comfortable lives, which is why so many goods are designed with planned obsolescence. This is another subject you might want to look up.

and because the youth of today have virtually no work ethic.

Yeah, that's is, the progeny of the most productive work force on the planet have no work ethnic!

or else you are an idiot for making such a statement?

Which do you think is more likely to be true?

A better answer is, What is the cure for ignorance?

reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 04:10 PM by zappafan1

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by zappafan1

There can be no such thing as a corporate Communist collective, because there cannot be a free market Communist entity; not in the true sense of the idea.

There can not be a "free market" entity nor a Communist entity, in the true sense of the ideals, because they are both unrealistic ideals that will never exist.

Once you realize this, it will be like opening your eyes for the first time in years.

REPLY: Free market and Capitalism... The free exchange of goods and/or services between consenting people. You may correct there, since there are always those who will do nothing to achieve what they think they have a right to (simply because they draw breath,) and those who live off the backs of other people's productivity. Actually they are the pretty much the same thing, but the first are welfare recipients, and the other represents local, state and federal union workers. Both of you just don't get it, and obviously you never will. Local, state and federal governments produce nothing (except more local, state and federal jobs.) You live off of the productivity of others. I worked today, and provide goods and services for my fellow man, and I get paid to do so. I generated new wealth. Teachers, state and federal workers generate no new wealth, but instead are paid by the redistribution of the wealth of others.

I'd be willing to bet you went to some crappy college like the UWM, or UWSP.

And, no, I'm not including firefighters, police or nurses, etc.

edit on 3-3-2011 by zappafan1 because: Added content

reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 04:21 PM by zappafan1

reply to post by poet1b

"....Yeah, that's is, the progeny of the most productive work force on the planet have no work ethnic! or else you are an idiot for making such a statement?"

REPLY: Even in this small town in Wisconsin, Summer comes and there are no kids who go around to mow lawns, or to shovel snow in the Winter. On those rare occasions when someone does, they want $20 to do so. I try to hire recent school grads to help both them and myself out, and they want $12 to $14 an hour, with no work experience whatsoever. A couple I did hire I let go, because they couldn't make correct change. No work ethic, a lousy education and no idea of living in the real world.

Case in point: check your punctuation. Were you making a statement, or was it a question?

It's somewhat funny, in a way.... both my grandparents were teachers in Wisconsin. They planned to work until they had to retire, but instead quit after 15 years. Why? Because of what the unions were offering them. They quit because they didn't like the idea of getting extra pay and benefits when it came from the work of others; they said it was un-American.... and they were correct.

By the way, you'll have to pick two or things you want me to provide links to. If you're a state union hack(s), I'm not doing any more work for you than I have to; I already do enough. Finding links is no problem, but I already pay for your rent/mortgage; food, health/home/car insurance; home energy.. you get the idea.

edit on 3-3-2011 by zappafan1 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 05:01 PM by poet1b

reply to post by zappafan1

More idealistic nonsense.

Local, state and federal governments produce nothing

Please feel free to move to a productive state without a government.

So you don't see any value in teaching, what about standards, or patents, roads ect.? Do you have the slightest clue how this world operates?

So kids don't want to work for what you are willing to pay them, they must be lazy. Or possibly you must be a cheap bugger?

You don't pay squat for me, why would you claim that you do? Sounds to me like you are just another self demanding fool who thinks he has the right to dictate what others may earn, or how they participate in the market system.

This is why you support the government interfering in how people negotiate their wages.

I have already made it clear what facts you need to provide links to back up. You are the one trying to make a point, if you can't back it up with evidence, then you have already wasted your time.

reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 06:55 PM by zappafan1

reply to post by Daughter2

"....Most rich people don't care - even upper middle class has very little empathy"

I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination. I live quite happily on a net of $30K and I give 20% to charity every year.... and don't take the tax write-off. Why should I benefit for doing something charitable?.... kind of defeats the principle donations. The upper-middle class has no empathy? .... you mean like teachers and school execs?

"....I think it's ethical to force people to give....."

REPLY: So, at least you admit to being a Marxist. It's up to the individual to provide their own safety net, and to think otherwise is un-American. There are no people in America who don't have access to medical care; none. Zip. Zilch. Nada

"...there are plenty of countries which provide social service nets that are doing great."

All of the socialist/Communist countries are in the crapper. Those ideas never work and never will. anyone with a calculator can figure that out. Eventually you run out of other people's money, just like what is happening to the country right now; and in Greece, and in.... fill in the blank.

reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 07:16 PM by zappafan1

reply to post by poet1b

Listen, you'll never learn what the real world is like, and you have no idea what reality is all about. If you work for the state, and get your money from the state, I help pay for everything you do and everything you have in your pitiful life. Governments exist on money they steal from people at the point of a gun (you think that'[s not true? .... don't pay your taxes and see what happens.) Actually, perhaps it's you who couldn't live without government, but people who live in the world can. If 95% of government vanished, America would prosper beyond it's wildest dreams.

You are a sorry excuse for a human being, who leaches off the backs of other people's labors. Without our productivity you wouldn't have an income; at least not while you're working for government.

You don't realize it, but the cover has come off of the eyes of America, and they see Democrats, unions and socialism for what it is. The coward Dem senators have shown that they prefer to back the unions in opposition to the majority of Wisconsin's working families. They're preventing democracy from happening. Why is it Dems are always so proud of Democracy, unless it results in a decision they don't like?

The end result of all this? .... it is the beginning of the end for the stranglehold unions have had in America. It is the end of the Socialization of America, which is what the SEIU and Trumpka is all about. Unless you're in the categories of workers I mentioned in an earlier post (police, EMT's, firefighters, nurses, etc), get a real job and earn your own money, instead of leaching from the work of others. One can only hope you've decided not to breed; that will save America from more who think like you. You may be a citizen, but you are not an American.
By the way, I took the test when I first saw it a few years ago; I got 88% correct. You?

I gave you the choice to pick a few of the things you wanted links to, but you ignored it, just as you've ignored much of what I wrote, instead choosing to make your little points here and there. Epic fail (probably just like your students.)

It's been fun, but as Spanky used to say: ".... they'll never learn." Goodbye. Ignore.

PS: Re-elect Walker.

edit on 3-3-2011 by zappafan1 because: Added content

edit on 3-3-2011 by zappafan1 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 08:12 PM by Blackmarketeer

@zappafan

Germany has a "cradle-to-grave" social government and among the higher paid workers in the world, and it's economy is one of the strongest in the world, and in much better shape than ours.

You seem to be under the belief that "social" programs like health/welfare or even public schools/teachers are somehow destroying this country. That's just not true. Corporatism has decimated this countries economy, and we sat idly by while corporate elitists infiltrated the government and bribed/influenced their way to better and better paydays while we got by on less and less.

The German middle class is very strong, and very well off, and as I mentioned above, they have a "cradle-to-grave" social program. So how come you never hear of Germany "being broke"? Conversely, how many German companies have billion-dollar valuations per-capita compared to America? We have a large number of companies worth billions of dollars, YET we struggle to get by, our economy is shrinking while the work force is shifted to China or Mexico or India, our tax base is so eroded we can barely maintain our civil infrastructure and we do nothing for the social welfare of our middle or lower classes.

Social programs aren't whats breaking this country, nor is it the teachers, or unions, what we have done is allow criminals like the Kochs and the Kenny Boys and the Ebbers, Lesars, and on and on. Look at the corporate boards of these billion-dollar titans, and you'll see who has reduced the USA to a paltry shadow of it's former self.

Walker gutted nearly one billion from public education in Wisconsin. Man, I'd hate to have to send my kids to a public school there, in fact why not get rid of public schools altogether and everyone can send their kids to private schools, or privatize the schools? That way, someone like you Zappafan with your meager 30,000 a year pay check (face it man, you're at the lower end of middle class, and most would probably say you're poor) - someone like you couldn't even afford to send a kid to private school. That's the direction we're heading in now. We'll be just like India, the rich kids go to private schools, the poor kids live in the streets and learn how to beg. That would suit the corporate masters just fine, then they won't have to go "offshore" for cheap destitute labor, there will be plenty of that here.

reply posted on 3-3-2011 @ 09:30 PM by Daughter2

reply to post by zappafan1

I couldn't help to notice the tones of your posts. Using terms like "pitiful life", "get a job", "leach", "pig".

Dehumanizing terms. Terms which degrade people and put them in a lesser class.

Is this what you REALLY think of people who do things for the State like filing, answering phones, creating spreadsheets.

I think it is....

I think it's how most of the very rich think too. By very rich I'm not talking someone who makes a 100,000 a year - but the Billionaires of the world.

It's great you let the world know your view.

edit on March 3rd 2011 by Daughter2 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 4-3-2011 @ 11:21 AM by poet1b

reply to post by zappafan1

I dont' work for the state, or government, why would you assume I do?

Oh yeah, so you can call me a sorry excuse of a human being.

There is a reason men form governments, sorry you don't get that.

When you find that place where society prospers without government, please send me a post card.

reply posted on 5-3-2011 @ 02:51 AM by VitriolAndAngst

reply to post by zappafan1

ZappaFan -- I really can't REPLY to your "critique" of my comments -- because you are pretty much ENTIRELY wrong. It would be a Herculean task to correct all the non-facts you put forth. I do however, recognize them as Fox News and "Republican Truths" I've heard bandied about the internets -- just not so many in one place.

>> The one "take away" I would like to give you; Frank Zappa was a genius -- both in music and in his understanding of what is going on in the world. Did you listen to the song with the line; "I'm the Slime oozing out of your TV Set"? I think you are 180 degrees away from the perspective of Frank Zappa -- he was anti-establishment and always preached that the commercialization of our Media, created an incentive to "make us stupid." Capitalism thrives in ignorance and creates demand -- it does NOT, try and give us something better or more efficient if it can sell us something like a Pet Rock -- preferably with a trademark and DRM so that you cannot transfer ownership of the Pet Rock because you never really take ownership of it.

The #1 statistic that defines where "teachers" are not performing well? Zip Code. If you find the Zip Code of a neighborhood that is poor, and has minorities and transients -- well, it's going to have LOW test scores. And so the "No Child Left Behind" standardized testing, pulls more money away from teachers who need help. When kids come to school hungry, and with distressed parents at home -- the last thing they are motivated to do is take a test.

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