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China begins war games, eyes Taiwan by 2020

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posted on Jul, 16 2004 @ 04:52 PM
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From tha AFP and Reuters, some of the highlights of the articles:



China has kicked off war games simulating an invasion of Taiwan and military chief Jiang Zemin has vowed to recover by 2020 the democratic island Beijing claims as its own, Beijing-backed Hong Kong newspapers said Friday.

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"After several months of preparations, the summer exercise of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) began," said the Hong Kong-based Ta Kung Pao newspaper.

It said the exercise started "in the first 10 days of this month" and were expected to last a week.

China has said it would use the joint sea, land and air drills to demonstrate its ability to dominate air space over Taiwan, an essential element in any invasion.

"18,000 soldiers are participating in the exercise. The objective of the exercise this time is to fight to control air space over Taiwan," it said.

Previous state media reports have said practically all the advanced weaponry China possesses would be used in the exercise, including Sukhoi Su-27 fighter jets purchased from Russia.

Nuclear-powered submarines, warships, the latest model missile destroyers and a guided missile brigade would also reportedly be involved.

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Unidentified sources were quoted as saying former Chinese president and Central Military Commission chairman Jiang Zemin had recently discussed a timetable regarding using force to achieve Taiwan's reunification in a speech at a military conference in Beijing.


www.spacewar.com...

and

www.financialexpress-bd.com... /17/2004§ion_id=2&newsid=16140&spcl=no

Keep in mind, there are currently 7 US carrier groups in the region, and Taiwan is beginning to codunct a series of exercises themselves. Next week, their air force is carrying out freeway landing exercises.




posted on Jul, 16 2004 @ 07:30 PM
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Also keep in mind the Us is in the process of selling weapons and other war systems to Taiwan to beef up their military also by 2020 will will have so many new things the Chinese will have a hard time getting by a US backed Taiwan.



posted on Jul, 16 2004 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Also keep in mind the Us is in the process of selling weapons and other war systems to Taiwan to beef up their military also by 2020 will will have so many new things the Chinese will have a hard time getting by a US backed Taiwan.


Exactly... If the Chinnese threats get worse. The US may put most weapons systems (except the Raptor, and maybe the JSF) Couple of THAAD batteries, Ageis destoryers, maybe even a nuc sub or too.



posted on Jul, 16 2004 @ 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
Exactly... If the Chinnese threats get worse. The US may put most weapons systems (except the Raptor, and maybe the JSF) Couple of THAAD batteries, Ageis destoryers, maybe even a nuc sub or too.


FredT, you want US go to war against China? If US want it, US will get it.

Due to the ignorance of you and Westpoint32, both are on my ignore list now. Debating with you like is just wasting time.



posted on Jul, 16 2004 @ 10:10 PM
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i keep telling you guys that tiawan is going to act tough casue the US is backing it up. if china wants tiawan itll have to go through the us.


"Let them come." King Theoden in reguards to the warnings of an impending orc attack on his country of Rohan.



posted on Jul, 16 2004 @ 11:06 PM
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Don't forget the "7" full battle groups in the area or soon to be so.
I figure each carrier carries about 75 planes, 50 of which are of the fighter/bomber type. Thats 350 planes ready for battle. I don't know, but I assume China has 10 to 20 times as many plus sams.
Down to the point, is it enough to take on China-NO!
Is it enough to make China REALLY think about doing anything..........?
It is also my personal opinion, if we get involved in China too, N.Korea will run wild and so will many other countries - why - How many wars can one country fight at once? Even the Mighty US forces have their limits -though much higher than any others.....still.



posted on Jul, 16 2004 @ 11:42 PM
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As much as I do love guns and jets and ships I feel that this one (referring to China Vs. Tiawan) has to be settled in a disscusion.

But if China was stupid enough to go to war with tiawan, I do believe that the United States would back em up.

Why? The United States is basically waiting to do to war with China.
Why? The United Staes doesn't want to have to deal with another big superpower problem. Kind of like cut the head off a baby snake before it gets to grow and become a bigger threat.



posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Don't forget the "7" full battle groups in the area or soon to be so.
I figure each carrier carries about 75 planes, 50 of which are of the fighter/bomber type. Thats 350 planes ready for battle. I don't know, but I assume China has 10 to 20 times as many plus sams.
Down to the point, is it enough to take on China-NO!
Is it enough to make China REALLY think about doing anything..........?
It is also my personal opinion, if we get involved in China too, N.Korea will run wild and so will many other countries - why - How many wars can one country fight at once? Even the Mighty US forces have their limits -though much higher than any others.....still.



Um... actually each carrier carries 85 planes but still 350 is a good show of force but you are forgetting that Taiwan also has an air force with US jets and we would most likely send F-16 and F-15 to Taiwan incase of war plus on your second statement is it enough as a show of force I think 7 carriers each with 3 California class subs plus each carrier has 2 destroys and cruisers oh yes more than enough as a show of force.

Are you impaired in any way? 10-20 times more planes that is 7000 planes not even the US has that much which has the biggest air force in the world china has close to 350-400 jets so my question to you is what were you smoking and any war with Taiwan wont happen now cuz china doesn't have the capabilities so when they do go to war the US will be out of Iraq and Afghanistan also we have S. Korea and Japan to handle north Korea while we take care of china.


[edit on 18-7-2004 by WestPoint23]



posted on Jul, 17 2004 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by mrmonsoon
Don't forget the "7" full battle groups in the area or soon to be so.
I figure each carrier carries about 75 planes, 50 of which are of the fighter/bomber type. Thats 350 planes ready for battle. I don't know, but I assume China has 10 to 20 times as many plus sams.
Down to the point, is it enough to take on China-NO!


Hmmm, the amount of really frontline Fighters tht China has is about Equal to the CBG's strength. On paper, the PLAAF (Sounds like a malignant wart eh? Damm there a PLAAF on my butt
) has lots and lots of planes, but some were around when Eisenhower was in office. Nor are they likey to commit thier entire force of modern fighters to a giant furball over the Taiwan Straight. They have to hold some in reserve to defend the cities etc. Nor will the CBG be operating alone. Added to that, they will have to fight over or near Taiwan at least initally (as the agressor, China will have to show up to fight, they cant sit in thier reventments like the Iraq AF) and that will be pretty hard with Taiwan's fighters plus the US plus PAC 2's and 3's (assuming they are not busy shooting down missiles, or our own planes). The US could gain some measure of air superiority over the Mainland, but then what? The PLA is simply too big to take on on thier home turf. But that is really an academic question. If China leaves Taiwan alone, all of this will be just talk......



posted on Jul, 18 2004 @ 10:06 AM
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2005 NOV. is the real target date



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by zcheng
[
FredT, you want US go to war against China? If US want it, US will get it.

Due to the ignorance of you and Westpoint32, both are on my ignore list now. Debating with you like is just wasting time.


Actually, it is CHINA who is talking war to take away the freedom of 23 million people. The U.S. and Taiwan would like to avoid war, but not at the cost of the elimination of freedom for 23 million peace-loving people in Taiwan.

I get a laugh every time I hear the Chinese talk about liberating Taiwan. What exactly are you proposing to liberate Taiwan from, its freedom?



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by ludahai
The U.S. and Taiwan would like to avoid war

You sure think talking Taiwan Independence can avoid war? War can be avoided only when all Chinese people concedes that Taiwan has the right for Independence. I for one will fight and die for the territorial integrity of China.



I get a laugh every time I hear the Chinese talk about liberating Taiwan.

It will be called Unification war, just like the Great American Civil War.



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by Murcielago
Why? The United States is basically waiting to do to war with China.
Why? The United Staes doesn't want to have to deal with another big superpower problem. Kind of like cut the head off a baby snake before it gets to grow and become a bigger threat.

Exactly.
That is why China is trying to avoid war now and to delay the eventual Taiwan Formal Independence move.

I believe the preparation for eventual face-off with US/Japan/Taiwan is underway, and China has now determined that US will enter the Taiwan muddle. In recent years, a great number of advanced weaponry have entered PLA. Many more are on their way.

If there will eventually be a great war with US in the future, I think these days are not good for China at all. In a few years (5-10 years), China may able to deter US involvement in Taiwan, and Taiwan will peacefully unify with Mainland.



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by zcheng
You sure think talking Taiwan Independence can avoid war? War can be avoided only when all Chinese people concedes that Taiwan has the right for Independence. I for one will fight and die for the territorial integrity of China.


Taiwan already IS independent. The Chinese people have no say in this, just as they don't have any say in anything else that goes on in that country. Perhaps you should be more concerned with improving the situation in China rather than conquering another nation that has no desire to be ruled by tyrants in Beijing.



It will be called Unification war, just like the Great American Civil War.


The only people who will call it a Unification War will be the ChiComs. Everyone else will call it a war of agression against a smaller, peaceful, democratic nation.

China has no legal or historical claim to the island nation of Taiwan.



posted on Jul, 19 2004 @ 11:40 PM
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""Taiwan already IS independent. The Chinese people have no say in this, just as they don't have any say in anything else that goes on in that country. Perhaps you should be more concerned with improving the situation in China rather than conquering another nation that has no desire to be ruled by tyrants in Beijing.""

Finally someone from Taiwan can try and make Zcheng shut up.



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 01:23 AM
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Originally posted by Murcielago

Finally someone from Taiwan can try and make Zcheng shut up.


The ChiComs love to talk about how their Taiwanese compatriots want to be liberated. That is so laughable! Even my pan-Blue (KMT and PFP supporters) have no desire to be so "liberated."



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by ludahai
China has no legal or historical claim to the island nation of Taiwan.


Can you post the constitution of Taiwan today? Can you tell me what territories it governs?

What's the name of your Independent Taiwan? Is is Republic of China, or something else? Why not Change your name to Republic of Taiwan for example? Why not ask the self-wounded CSB to announce the name of Independent Taiwan to the world?

Even better, you can announce your Independence of your Home. In that case, you will be the president.



posted on Jul, 20 2004 @ 12:39 PM
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If there will eventually be a great war with US in the future, I think these days are not good for China at all. In a few years (5-10 years), China may able to deter US involvement in Taiwan, and Taiwan will peacefully unify with Mainland.


Yeah right 5-10 years us will have 150+ raptor s and in ten years it will have the JSF plus in 5-6 years the US will get the DDX destroyers and more new planes and bombers that are top secret the only way chin can reach US level in 10 years if the US stops all research and production of everything and just freezes for 10 years



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 04:21 AM
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Originally posted by zcheng

Can you post the constitution of Taiwan today? Can you tell me what territories it governs?


The process has begun to change the constitution that was imposed on Taiwan by the ruthless Chinese KMT (I am sure we can both agree how terrible they were.) Taiwan is a new democracy, and will soon have pan-green control of the legislature as well as the executive. Once that happens, the people of Taiwan can truly assert their own constitution.


What's the name of your Independent Taiwan? Is is Republic of China, or something else? Why not Change your name to Republic of Taiwan for example? Why not ask the self-wounded CSB to announce the name of Independent Taiwan to the world?


Taiwan has been self-governed, regardless of what its official name is, for more than five decades. The name was imposed by Chinese occupiers. However, now that the Taiwanese control their own country, a DEMOCRATIC process will be used in changing both the name of the country and the constitution. However, the democratic process is often slow, but it is inherently better because the people have a say, unlike in China.

As for the "self-wounded" CSB. Generally, people in countries run by the rule of law like to see evidence first. Of course, since CHina is not run by the run of law, but rather is run by rule of the thug, such niceties mean nothing to you.


Even better, you can announce your Independence of your Home. In that case, you will be the president.


However, Taiwan is independent. China has no claim. Please identify the legally binding treaty by which Taiwan was given to China after the Qing Dynasty ceded it in perpetuity!



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 04:36 AM
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Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by Murcielago
Why? The United States is basically waiting to do to war with China.
Why? The United Staes doesn't want to have to deal with another big superpower problem. Kind of like cut the head off a baby snake before it gets to grow and become a bigger threat.

Exactly.
That is why China is trying to avoid war now and to delay the eventual Taiwan Formal Independence move.

I believe the preparation for eventual face-off with US/Japan/Taiwan is underway, and China has now determined that US will enter the Taiwan muddle. In recent years, a great number of advanced weaponry have entered PLA. Many more are on their way.

If there will eventually be a great war with US in the future, I think these days are not good for China at all. In a few years (5-10 years), China may able to deter US involvement in Taiwan, and Taiwan will peacefully unify with Mainland.


Dont you guys have anything better to do?...like killing and oppressing peaceful Tibetan monks (not to mention your own people). You wonder why Taiwan doesent want to be part of your communist cesspool. China cant even feed its own people...millions are starving and that is with the U.S. sending over tons of foods. China likes to talk real big but if things went down, you would be put in your place.



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