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Abortion, Genocide, what’s THE difference?!?!?!?!?.... do you condone murder???

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posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 05:41 PM
Back to the OP if men put something on there would be less unwanted pregnancies.

Why should a woman have to bring up a child after a one night stand.

posted on Mar, 11 2011 @ 06:14 PM
reply to post by mrphilosophias

Not being a scientist, I couldn't relate to you the PURPOSE of homosexuality any more than I can relate to you the purpose of love. Any maladaptive behavior over a length of time will weed out that behavior eventually. Either 4000+ years of homosexuality is not long enough or the behavior doesn't affect the survival of the species. Going back further, I'm confident that homosexual/bisexual behavior has been around MUCH longer. Here's a starting point if you want to research any of it.

Sexual behavior does not have to link to reproduction. There are a number of species that have sex for reasons outside of reproduction, so I'd assume that the pre-disposition for homosexual or bisexual behavior would be linked to the sexual behavior.

You comparing human sacrifices to homosexuality as a practice that has existed since recorded history seems sinister in your implication of an evil act designed to take someone's life vs a preference to be attracted to and love a member of the same sex. Your comparison is of apples to oranges though as sexual preference doesn't have anything to do with the practice of taking lives to appease one's Gods.

Here's your citation for multiple species' homosexual/bisexual activity:

With regards to your questions about productivity, productivity doesn't have to benefit you in order to be productive. It might not be useful to you, but it's definitely productive. It doesn't have to be about reproduction at all. There are activities that add to productivity that have nothing to do with reproduction. Quality of life is not just about getting the next life started. it's about living the life you currently have to your preferences.

posted on Mar, 13 2011 @ 09:06 AM

Originally posted by someone on page 1 of this thread, I forget who now...
A baby is born premature at the same age as a baby is aborted.

Now, that's just insulting to the intelligence of people here, and patently false, it negates anything else you said.

I won't be further joining this discussion, because I am male.
All males should recuse themselves from this debate, on ATS and elsewhere. If you aren't female then politely shut your opinion-hole. That's my stance, for starters.

posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:15 AM
Id like to say Hi to everyone,Its my first post and i have to say i have been reading on this forum for a long time and It seems there is a real nice bunch of people here,intellegent and open minded and sympathetic to all colours creeds and opinions.This is probably the most heated thread i have ever read on this forum.I usualy stay away from confrontation on any topic but i have chose this as my first.I am a practicing shaman,not that means anything or makes my opinion any better than anywayone elses,but anyway heres my take on it..

Life is sacred. Your own life was not created by you, it was given to you by others. When you take a life, not only do you do an injustice to that life, but to the generations of lives that came before it, and the generations of lives that will now, not come after it. There is only one exception to this rule. That is, if that person/creature/organism tries to take your life. then you have the right to defend yourself. A child in the womb is a human life. Nothing can change that. Not words, not actions, not circumstance, not emotion. It is, what it is. It is real. Our society alows the taking of that life only because we as a society have become detatched from reality.
If in the case of rape a mother does not want her child. then give your child to someone who does want it. Nothing justifies killing it. It is innocent, it has done no wrong.
Think of the people that are closest to you, brothers, sisters, family, friends etc. and the joy they bring you.Now imagine they werent there! through no fault of their own someone decided they have no right to be there, how would that make you feel?
It only takes one person to change the world, Of the millions of babys who are aborted every year how many of those could have been the next Thomas Jefferson or Martin L King, or ghandi or your brother or sister! our even your mother or father in which case you would not even exist!
Please! we are one species, never let us become detached from reality to the level where we cannot see things for what they are!

posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 01:36 AM
As an after thought id just like to leave you with two quotes.

The first one is from Vernon Howard:

"Human sickness is so severe that few can dare to look at it, but those that do, will become well"

The second is from the Hopi Indians and is always a comfort to me in these days of dread, and when i come across subject matter that depresses me.

"Everthing we do now must be done in a sacred manner and in celebration, for we are the ones, we have been waiting for."

Thank you all, goodnight.

posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 02:49 PM
Well ok I believe that the only real issue belongs to the parent(s) of the child and the surgeons. If it's not really your problem, it shouldn't be the government or other peoples' business!!! Worry about your own problems and let them decide! Is it really other peoples' problem?

posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 02:55 PM
I'm going to make a larger thread on the history of abortion beliefs & laws within religion. But for now since I'm new, I cannot. Unfortunately. For now I will be brief, because the topic is large and there is a lot to say.

Firstly, I want to make clear that I believe the decision should be left up to the woman and doctor.
Secondly it is my understanding that those who are against abortion say they would ban it for moral reasons, i.e. that they believe it is murder...which, to me seems to be based on religious background.

One thing that I have always found to be contradictory, is that these "abortion = murder" people also tend to value freedom of religion in this country (as do I). However what I have not heard them address, is the fact that there are other religious beliefs aside from Christian, and not all these other religions believe that abortion = murder. Thus a ban on all abortion would directly conflict with religious beliefs of others. For example, in Jewish faith (which generally believes in access to abortion for women, except for in some orthodox communities):

Halacha (Jewish law) does define when a fetus becomes a nefesh (person). "...a baby...becomes a full-fledged human being when the head emerges from the womb. Before then, the fetus is considered a 'partial life.' " 5 In the case of a "feet-first" delivery, it happens when most of the fetal body is outside the mother's body.

for example

A passage from the Mishna quotes a Jewish legal text from the second century CE. It describes the situation in which a woman's life is endangered during childbirth. A D&X procedure (often called Partial Birth Abortion in recent years) might be used under these conditions today. However, this technique was unknown in ancient times. The legal text states that the fetus must be dismembered and removed limb by limb. However, if "the greater part" of the fetus had already been delivered, then the fetus could not be killed. This is based on the belief that the fetus only becomes a person after most of its body emerges from the birth canal.

Another important aspect, is that in Jewish faith the decision to have an abortion is up to the rabbi in consultation with the woman, thus upon an outright ban of abortion, this decision making power would be taken away and put in the hands of the government.

Other religions have various beliefs as to when abortion is acceptable. However another problem I see, is that in order for abortion to be defined as murder, and thus banned, a fetus would have to legally be considered a full person, again this goes against what some religions and their laws state.

Something else that I thought was interesting, is that, historically, the Catholic Church considered abortion acceptable throughout much of history. Only from 2nd century to 4th century did the church issue an order that abortion was unacceptable. Throughout the rest of history, the official position of the church was that abortion was okay up until "quickening" (i.e. when the baby "drops") which is when it was believed the soul entered the body. Abortion became mostly illegal under church law again in 1869, where it was still okay in order to save a woman's life, however in 1884 is was changed to reflect a no tolerance, no exception policy...some people think that it's interesting that this is right around the same time that women were starting to demand more rights under law (women's suffrage movement).

Here's a link where I got some of my information:

Lastly, the other major inconsistency that I see is when conservatives argue for a no-tolerance abortion position, that most of them also have a belief in "small government" too. (I also believe government should be left out of personal decisions and lives). I don't understand how these conservatives can argue to keep government out of the "doctor's office" (common phrase used during health care debate) and then turn around and push for laws like "mandatory ultra sounds for woman". I think that the woman and the doctor knows best, so I don't understand, how in the case of abortion, especially in cases like rape, incest, and the health of the mother, how conservatives can argue that the government should decide.

I'd be interested to hear what other people think about the inconsistencies in anti-abortion arguments based on religious and conservative beliefs.

I would also like to add one more thought since I've heard several people say "I don't think abortion should be used as a form of birth control", that this phrase is actually a myth used by anti-abortion activists to put a "women who have abortions are just sluts" spin on the whole thing. Simply put abortion is rarely, if ever used as birth control simply because the procedure is a terrible one that is both extremely hard on the woman physically and emotionally. No one wants to go through that type of emotional and physical hardship just for the sake of "birth control" when there are plenty of other methods of birth control that don't involve surgery or emotional pain; condoms, the pill, family planning, etc. However I should also add, that anti-abortion activists are also trying to limit access to contraceptives, in some cases eliminate them, which again makes no sense, because the less access people have to contraceptive the fewer accidental pregnancies meaning fewer abortions, and you would think that these people would want fewer abortions. Again, I don't understand the logic behind their thinking. Maybe someone else here does?

posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 02:57 PM
reply to post by heavymetalgolfer

Sure it may be wrong on some levels and it's probably not something I would ever do, but who am I to say it's wrong if other people have abortions? It's not my problem and it's none of my flippin' business.

posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 03:20 PM
In response to the OP, yes, I condone murder, seeing that's the way the OP has chosen to phrase it

Years ago, my opinions would have been radically different. But that's because then, I was young - I was still under the influence of religion - I was idealistic - I was inexperienced

I'm a lot older now and have lived, experienced and observed for many decades

Basically, babies (future adult humans) are parasites. They demand the parents sacrifice decades of earnings, energy, money, time and worry on their behalf

That's all Life demands of humans - that they replace themselves with other humans. After that, Life doesn't care what happens to the parents. They're a spent-force. Life has no further use to them. If parents manage to construct a life beyond the demands of parenthood, then that's of no interest to Life. All Life wants is for people to replace themselves

Big Business thinks similarly to Life. Big Business desperately wants consumers to create new consumers who'll continue buying after the older consumers have gone into the ground

Once parents are old and have lessened disposable income, neither Life nor Big Business has any use for them

Once people are not spending on consumer items for themselves and their families ... once people aren't paying into insurance schemes - once people aren't paying high medical and aged-care fees ... then neither Life nor Big Business has any use for them

Parents are required (if they're to be 'good' parents) to sacrifice their youth, their income, their time, their energies and more to the next generation, their children. It's all-consuming, if the job's to be done right. When the children are ready to fly the nest and embark on their own journey, the parents are generally past the age to follow the dreams and ambitions they harboured when they were young. They're usually middle-aged. Employment opportunities are no longer seeking them. Their bodies have succumbed to gravity and age. They are way past their prime. They're required to formulate plans befitting their age and reduced abilities, opportunities, etc. etc.

So, children are parasites. They live off the host-parents

This claim that life is sacred is just mumbo-jumbo to keep people compliant, scared and unthinking. It's intended to make them do what best suits those who control their lives and the lives of their children and grandchildren

No. Life is not sacred. Look around. Read the news. Watch tv and youtube. Do you see life as sacred ANYWHERE other than as claimed by religion and those who make their living .. a GOOD living.. from peddling religion ?

See those priests and rabbis and mullahs and Popes 'blessing' troops as they head OFF to war (to kill and be killed) ? See them 'blessing' the corpses of dead soldiers when they're returned home, mass deliveries, after they've been killed ? Yes, you've seen them. But did you THINK about what was happening in front of your eyes ?

Did you see the priests and rabbis and mullahs and Popes claiming ' Life is sacred ' when they were encouraging soldiers to go to war to kill and be killed ? No. You did not. Nor did you see those of the religion-industry stating ' Life is sacred' when they were mouthing platitudes at the mass burials of soldiers' corpses in military and other cemeteries. No. Those employed in the religion-industry rarely if ever confront government. Instead, the religion-industry and governments work hand in glove -- like prostitutes and pimps. They work together. They assist each other, They support each other's lies and tall-tales. Without religion to tame humanity, governments would have been toppled centuries ago. And to repay the religion-industry for acting as police officers, government gives the religion-industry financial rewards aplenty in the form, for one, of tax-free status

Do you see God claiming ' All life is sacred ' ? No. You do not. You do NOT see God preventing wars. You do NOT see God preventing people from drowning, or being eaten by sharks, or being battered to death in their own homes. You do NOT see God holding back tsunamis or earthquakes or floods of mud, or landslides, or plagues. You do NOT see God catching people before they splatter on the ground after falling or jumping from cliffs or tall buildings. You do NOT see God saving children from murderous, depraved paedophiles. You do NOT see God sparing parents such devastating grief that they die from it or kill themselves because it's too much to bear

So the 'All life is sacred' BS is a hangover from the old days, when each religion was attempting to exhort its followers to out-breed all the other religions. The 'All life is sacred' nonsense was to brain-wash people into having children they hadn't planned and didn't want. It's a hangover from the days when there was a MUCH lower world's population and when people were dying like flies from rampaging plagues. The religion-industry wanted to grow populations. Business -- including the religion-industry -- needs customers, paying customers. The world wants fresh input of consumers to replace all those who die each minute around the globe. And THAT is why you've been programmed to believe 'All life is sacred'

Life isn't sacred to governments or to Big Business or to the VERY BIG religion-industry. MONEY is sacred to them !

If you want to sacrifice your life to raising future consumers who'll enrich Big Business, governments and the religion-industry, then go ahead. But don't try to con everyone else on behalf of business, government and the religion-industry. Because to them, life is cheap. It's the cheapest thing on the planet, in fact. People are regarded as dispensible - as throw-away items - as cattle who'll both breed and allow themselves to be milked and fleeced in the process

In the end, all those lives end up the same way - as lifeless corpses. All most of them will have achieved is to breed the next generation of future-corpses, who'll also be required to breed the next generation and be milked and fleeced in the process

Smart people KNOW that all life is not sacred at all. It's only life. And life is cheap and self-perpetuating

Ants, dogs, cats, crows, maggots -- everything breeds - breeds life. Humans are not special, not different. By breeding replacements for themselves, they're simply and unthinkingly obeying Life's ruthless determination to exist

posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 05:03 PM
Dock9, i think you have a seriously warped view of the world - "Children are parasites" When i say life is sacred im not talking about comsumerism or big business or religions view of things,or popes or governments.Im talking about empathy on a human level.

"In the end, all those lives end up the same way - as lifeless corpses. All most of them will have achieved is to breed the next generation of future-corpses, who'll also be required to breed the next generation and be milked and fleeced in the process " I realy feel sorry for you!!

Your view of the world is very dangerous one,and i hope you never gravitate to a position of serious authority.
If i read what you have written and saw that it was signed of by Joseph Mengler, or Joseph stalin or Mau it wouldnt shock me as much!!

posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 06:51 PM
reply to post by kevinunknown

While I totally respect your feelings towards abortion I have to disagree. I disagree for one reason - Over population. I know this is harsh and every person on this planet is precious and I'm happy I had a chance to experience it. And, I know who's to say we take that right away from someone else that is unborn.. But we are seriously messing with mother nature - god forbid some huge disaster occurs, many people will die b/c of Over Population. In fact, I think over population is the biggest problem we face! Why? Because every year an additional 100mm people are born. Approx. 100mm die and 200mm are born. Every 10 years or so an additional 1 billion people on this planet - again, every 10 years an additional 1,000,000,000 on this planet requiring and needing more and more resources. More food to eat, more shelter, more energy to use. This is why the energy production of oil will never meet demand. Drill all you want, supply can never meet demand unless the world stops having babies. This is just an example. But I'm sure you understand what I'm saying. Never in the span of Human civilization have we seen such growth and it will come back to haunt us!! whether its next year, or in 100 years.. it will come back to haunt us and destroy us! now if we feel we have the right to control animal populations like deer, bear, fish, etc... then why the heck can't we control our own? And I believe in God. I think its more important to protect the life on this planet already then the unborn. I know that sounds cruel and I'm not saying it as disrespect... I respect your opinion as you should mine.. And, I'm sure you will disagree..

posted on Mar, 14 2011 @ 07:02 PM
reply to post by auraelium

You make such solid points. Usually when i disagree or when you see people disagree on other threads you see an explosion in tempers. which, kind of like in this thread. You are right. You are 110% right. I agree, we have to defend an innocent baby iin the womb. I will even go as far to say that I even believe that life is created when its conceived. But, I have to be realistic. Yes, any of these babies can cure cancer, save the worlds problems.. but the more babies we have, the more problems we have. i'm blessed to have had a chance to experience life on this earth.. and a baby should be no different.. but honestly, if i wasn't born, i wouldn't know.. But that's the point you are making.. We don't know b/c we are so innocent in the womb. But if we are going to make a case against controlling animal populations b/c they over crowd and cause disruption.. the same rules apply to humans. I'm not thinking it in the context of Religion.. But more so if God truly did create man, he also created all life.... I think its hypocritical to kill off deer, bear and other wildlife b/c they interfere with humans b/c they are so overly populated but its the human race that is so dangerously over populated..
You are right. eveyr life is precious but this pace will, it surely will come back to haunt us whether in 100 years or tomorrow.. its dangerous. every year an additional 100,000,000 people are born - doesn't that scare you?? All these millions of abortions every year doesn't even come close to the sheer volume of babies being born.. I'm looking at it from a logical perspective.. whether I am right or wrong.. I'm thinking of what this over population problem is doing to our planet b/c every baby requires more food, more water, more shelter and more energy! All more and more resources to be used.. then all of a sudden when there is no water to drink, no energy resources to burn and use, no land to grow food.. it will be a calamity. that maybe far in the future but I feel its totally pragmatic..

posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 03:19 AM

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
Back to the OP if men put something on there would be less unwanted pregnancies.

Why should a woman have to bring up a child after a one night stand.

Why should a man have to support a woman's choice after a one night stand? Here I thought everyone supports equality..

Men and women should have the same reproductive rights, since women, white knights, manginas and feminists all say to men to keep it in our pants, why should women have it any different?

posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 06:04 AM
reply to post by korathin

I agree. But the solution is not to ban abortion. The solution is that man who doesnt want a child should have a choice to opt out of child support entirely, if he proves that woman can have an abortion, but only she doesnt want to. That means only the woman wants to have a child, so only she should pay for it.

posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 06:20 AM
it's not your body,your kid, your financial responsibility, etc.

don't tell me how to run my life.

posted on Mar, 15 2011 @ 01:13 PM

Originally posted by korathin

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
Back to the OP if men put something on there would be less unwanted pregnancies.

Why should a woman have to bring up a child after a one night stand.

Why should a man have to support a woman's choice after a one night stand? Here I thought everyone supports equality..

Men and women should have the same reproductive rights, since women, white knights, manginas and feminists all say to men to keep it in our pants, why should women have it any different?

You are missing the point, the woman is the one who is going to be dealing with the overwhelming effects of the pregnancy, not the man. It's having an effect on her body, not the man's. As another person already said, if men were allowed to get pregnant having an abortion would be considered a religious sacrament. Additionally, especially in a lot of 3rd world countries, the men there outright refuse to wear condoms, I have read investigative reports where women in Africa were beaten for trying to demand that the husband or man wear protection. So it's not always up to the woman whether or not the man acts responsibly, nor should the woman be blamed & punished because the man was acting irresponsibly. Another issue is, that throughout history women who have premarital and casual sex have been called "sluts" and told to "keep their legs shut", punished and demonized, while the men who have sex with them are considered "studs". I don't agree with telling either gender to "keep it in their pants". But to say that women should not be supported or given access to abortion simply because they had premarital or casual sex, is just as backwards as the antiquated "women = sluts, men = studs" double standard. Furthermore, it is perpetrating the idea that women go around behaving like "sluts" and then casually have abortions afterward. This could not be farther from actual reality, women simply do not do this, because frankly, who wants to put themselves through the trauma and risk of having an abortion after each time you have sex, it just doesn't make sense, and in reality it doesn't happen that way. It's the exact opposite, the decision to have an abortion is one that is full of heartbreak and not considered lightly. And so yes, if men were smart about it, they would be supporting women, women's rights and access to abortion. It's been shown that in countries where women have more rights, and more economic and social equality, that the country is more prosperous as a whole, and there are less social problems (think about who gave birth you all the MEN on this planet, WOMEN!)...if you support women, then you are also directly supporting all of the children that those women raise, male & female...if you treat the woman as subhuman, then you are also having a negative effect on her children. But then again, in this country at least (u.s.a.) I find that it's very hard to come across good, decent, honest, respectful men. They do exist, but are few and far between...I guess it's a reflection on the nature of our toxic, greed ridden, empathy-less, society, where people are taught to only care about them-selves and to worship the almighty dollar.

Just a side note, and this goes more to the OP and those who support him than anyone else here, but In general though, I have found that when talking to the white male christian privileges class (dominant class on this planet) that they have little or no understanding of what historically oppressed groups like black people, gay people, women, indigenous people's have to put up with on a daily basis...even in this good 'ol u.s. of a. It maybe a white guys perception that racism isn't an issue anymore because we have a black president, but then go and ask a black person who will tell you that 40% of black males are jobless, that a majority are or will be in their life's part of the prison industrial complex, that there's rampant racism in police department and so called "justice system", that they are still paid much lower than their white counterparts for the same job, and so on and so on...s/he will also tell you that they still see examples of bias and racism every day. The same is true for other oppressed populations, look at the legacy of colonization in this country, it have decimated native culture. Women have their fair share of crap that is thrown at them daily, from cat calling on the street, to the threat of sexual violence (again can come from random people on the street, or people you know), they also only get paid 75cents for every dollar a man makes for the same job & work. And again, when you hear men talk about it, they like to cherry pick ridiculous examples like "well my girlfriend has me on a leash: therefor women have it best" to which if you actually took a look at how society really functions you would realize how ridiculous this sounds (maybe akin to "well black guys are better athletes, so they have it much better than me!"...again absurd. But I still hear comments like this all the time, and I'm sure I will get some in response to this. But just in case there are any so called "minorities" reading this, please speak out, there's a connection between the oppression of all groups, (and we can now include the poor too) For more on what I'm talking about (and to those "non-minority", before you reply to this and argue AGAINST what I'm trying to say) first read this:
edit on 15-3-2011 by meeneecat because: added another paragraph instead of double posting.

posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 05:41 AM
i only condone murder if you eat the corpse afterward then it's called "hunting" look at rotten website there is a picture of a guy eating a fetus with veggies on the side. oh and stem cell research has has uses for dead fetuses. one time i answered my phone saying "town abortion clinic no fetus can beat us." see? dead fetuses have their place in nature be it bad jokes spare parts or a pacific island delicacy. no matter what social control laws fanatical Judea christians can muster, it's the mother's decision to spend $6.00 or $8.00 on a pack of trojans or to just have a prom night dumpster baby. maybe she should keep the kid to adopt it out or sell it on the black market. in this day and age finding an intact hymen on a 17 year old is like passing a camel through the eye of a needle.
edit on 16-3-2011 by rockoperawriter because: nyeah

posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 02:25 PM

Originally posted by kevinunknown
. Although I am Catholic, I hold these views independently of my religion. I just think it is wrong; I don’t need to bible to tell me murder is wrong, so I don’t need it to tell me abortion is wrong.

Sorry Kev but it seems a bit rich for a Catholic to preach about abortion when Catholic teachings contribute so much to the abortion issue. Buy telling the poor uneducated African villagers that using a condom INCREASES the chance of catching AIDS, your institution adds to the problem tenfold. Lets not forget also the wholesale murder of pregnant women during the crusades and the inquisition - often by cutting out the foetus/baby whilst the mother was alive. People that live in glass houses should'nt throw stones, as the old saying goes.

posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 08:49 PM
Wow. A lot of strong opinions and statements in this thread!

Whatever way you look at it.. abortion IS ending a life. It shouldn't be done willy nilly and defiantly shouldn't be considered a casual method of contraception or the easy way out. To those who want abortion because they can't handle the responsibility of motherhood - give the baby to someone else! HOWEVER to call people 'trash' or 'murderer' is just plain wrong...

I'm especially surprised to hear men with such strong an opinion - Shame on you! I hope you feel the same way about yourself whenever you ejaculate... those sperm cells are just as much alive/conscious as a developing fetus. I guess the issue is WHEN does that developing fetus become a human.... when is it a conscious/feeling being that should be given rights and protected?

I don't think abortion should be completely banned.... BUT defiantly reviewed as to when is acceptable to do so. I think they should only be granted in certain situations and done on a case to case basis within the first few weeks after contraception... for reasons such as health concerns for either mother or child, rape victim etc. Not purely for the mothers convenience, to avoid getting stretch marks or a couple who 'changed their minds'.

I'm infertile and would love nothing more than to start my own family. I feel sick at the thought of lives being wasted and thrown away for no good reason. Those people should stop abusing the system, but for others abortion is the right option for them. These people are not murderers and I'm sure its something that will greatly affect them... its not like they go thru a drive thru and casually get the baby sucked out on their lunch break. I'd imagine the whole process is traumatic, embarrassing and possibly painful - both mentally and physically.

posted on Mar, 16 2011 @ 11:08 PM

Originally posted by windword
Oh aren't we altruistic when it comes to a woman's unborn fetus!? We promote war, and make examples of our enemies whether in effigy or in "shock and awe". (Hiroshima anybody) As we make killing machines from robots, and watching war porn on TV, you are on your soapbox about our uteri! How convienent it is to confuse unborn human life with exisiting human life. And I don't believe human life really IS more sacred than any living creature. (Help me out PETA) How pious of you!

When I was 17, my parents became aware that I had a boyfriend and was not a virgin. My parents disowned me and threw me out on the street. I moved in with my older boyfriend. I got pregnant and in California, at that time, was a legal reason for my employer to fire me. My "born again" christian parents tried to force me to have an abortion, as I was only 17, because of shame. I refused. I applied for unemployment, because I lost my job, and was denied because pregancy was considered a choice, and I was therefore, disqualified. So, I went on welfare.

I can't tell you the negative and shamefull stigma that followed me and my daughter for years; The dirty looks for using food stamps at the store; The brutal repremand from nurses and doctors. Teachers and parents who treated me and my daughter like dirt. I couldn't believe the shunning hatred my daughter had to endure in gradeschool.

When I walked in on my daughter's father having "sex" with my daughter, I left him. I was 19. When I found out I was pregnant, again with his fetus, I opted to terminate. I knew I couldn't bear to go through that again, and, I didn't want to be connected by another child to this man. I made a choice for life. My life and my daughter's life.

I don't care why somebody seeks to terminate. I have already endured more judgement than you could ever put out on this treaad. I think everyone has the right to choose life, their life!

We have fought against nature from the beginning of time. We will not be victimized by nature. We made clothing, shelter, medicine, learned animal husbandry and agriculture. We created dams and aquafiers. Learned to make energy and vehichles that could fly! Remembe the arguement: "If god wanted us to fly, he would given us wings?

I reject ALL religious arguments on this subject as pious and judgementaly imbigious and hypocritical. If life is so sacred, why are people trying to deny health insurance and vital human resources. Why don't we work on helping the living and not worry so much about what a woman decides is best for her current life situation.

Sorry if this is disjointed, but this attitude by the OP makes me soooo mad. Stay away from our uteri!

Although I respect your opinion and I'm sorry for what you have endured. That man had no right to do this to your daughter but I disagree with ending a life that has done nothing to anyone in this universe but of consequence from others. I would rather you have given it up to adoption.......give it a fighting chance is better then no chance at all IMO. And maybe someone out there who might have taken care or wanted a child for there own reasons just couldn't on there own. Maybe you could have helped some one by this regard and given them a chance for a life that they could never possess. But I don't judge you or condemn you for your action and I think its horrible what you have endured and gone through in you life and wish you well. But as you said, " I think everyone has the right to choose life, their life!" This is exactly why I don't believe in abortion. Everyone has this right.......let them in there future life they can choose.

To put it blunt, " Life is hard for me as my parents lived in a poor up bringing, but I am so glad for my lively experience and I got a chance to experience everything that I have regardless of the good times or the bad. As I'm am so glad that my parents did not abort me.....even if I would have not known if they did.......I'm simply glad I live......I am.

I'm sorry if you don't agree with me but this is my belief be it wrong or right.

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