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Abortion, Genocide, what’s THE difference?!?!?!?!?.... do you condone murder???

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posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by MindSpin
 


Once again, a plant is alive. You're really all over the place, yet you accuse my 'argument' of failing? Please, show me where I once said a plant wasn't alive, or a fetus, or an amoeba, or any living thing wasn't alive. What I'm saying, is that I don't feel it is cruelty, or murderous, to abort a fetus early in development. The fetus is not self-aware, or feeling pain, since the nervous system is undeveloped. Never once did I say it wasn't technically "alive". And you didn't answer my question...how does it feel for your opinion on this matter to mean NOTHING? It's legal.

You can't dictate what a woman does with her body, and it must really piss you off.




posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by MindSpin
 


Once again, a plant is alive. You're really all over the place, yet you accuse my 'argument' of failing? Please, show me where I once said a plant wasn't alive, or a fetus, or an amoeba, or any living thing wasn't alive.


Well..you are using self-awareness as your criteria for life...last time I checked...plants don't display self awareness. Who knows...maybe they are.

And to be clear...I never said you ever said that. That is why it was a QUESTION. I'm beginning to think you may not understand the difference between a statement and a question. Which would explain why you rarely answer a question...and you take a question as an accusation. You may want to correct that flaw in your thinking...it's kind of important to be able to distinguish between a statement and a question.

I'm really not all over the place, I can repeat again my position if you would like me too. It hasn't change throughout this whole thread. You seem to keep twisting, turning, redefining, and trying to justify why one arbitrary feature such as "self-awareness" is the best determination of life. I'm fine with my biological view point until you, or someone else, can prove it wrong.



What I'm saying, is that I don't feel it is cruelty, or murderous, to abort a fetus early in development. The fetus is not self-aware, or feeling pain, since the nervous system is undeveloped. Never once did I say it wasn't technically "alive".


So you do believe that abortion is stopping "LIFE"...right? Because that is what it sounds like you are saying.

But since it isn't painfull or "aware"...to you...it is justified...correct?

My position doesn't rely on these philosophical concepts...abortion stops LIFE...end of story.

And it appears that you agree with me that abortion stops life....YAY.


And you didn't answer my question...how does it feel for your opinion on this matter to mean NOTHING? It's legal.

You can't dictate what a woman does with her body, and it must really piss you off.


I'm well aware it is legal...doesn't really matter to me.

I married a women that believes abortion is murder, we will teach our kids the same (from the biological stand point of it). That is really the only thing that matters to me.

I'm not pissed of one bit...I reserve my right to judge any women that gets an elective abortion, who's life isn't being threatened by the pregnancy, as a selfish piece of trash that is a poor excuse for a human. That is my right...as long as that isn't taken away...I am happy.

Does it piss you off that I express my opinions??? You do seem a little pissy...so thought I would ask.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
So you do believe that abortion is stopping "LIFE"...right? Because that is what it sounds like you are saying.


Yes. It is. Just like pulling weeds from the yard is stopping life.



But since it isn't painfull or "aware"...to you...it is justified...correct?


Justified? That's not either of our call to make.



My position doesn't rely on these philosophical concepts...abortion stops LIFE...end of story.


So does swatting a fly, pulling a weed, etc. But, to you, only human life deserves protecting. I don't see it that way, we all live and die on this planet together, and the circle of life doesn't care if you have a superiority complex. A crocodile will eat you, no matter how much you try and convince him that your a human, and should be excluded from his menu because youre a higher life form.



And it appears that you agree with me that abortion stops life....YAY.


Glad I'm able to bring a delightful moment to your day.




I married a women that believes abortion is murder, we will teach our kids the same (from the biological stand point of it). That is really the only thing that matters to me.


GREAT! If only that was all that mattered to you, but judging by your below comments, you're not being honest about that.



I reserve my right to judge any women that gets an elective abortion, who's life isn't being threatened by the pregnancy, as a selfish piece of trash that is a poor excuse for a human. That is my right...as long as that isn't taken away...I am happy.


Well, I'm sure those women really care what some anonymous dude on the internet thinks about them.



Does it piss you off that I express my opinions??? You do seem a little pissy...so thought I would ask.


Nope. If judging others anonymously on the internet makes you feel better, that's what it's here for. You're most likely a quiet, reserved little fella offline, so if this is how you vent life's frustrations, vent away.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by 27jd
 



Yes. It is. Just like pulling weeds from the yard is stopping life.

So does swatting a fly, pulling a weed, etc. But, to you, only human life deserves protecting. I don't see it that way, we all live and die on this planet together, and the circle of life doesn't care if you have a superiority complex. A crocodile will eat you, no matter how much you try and convince him that your a human, and should be excluded from his menu because youre a higher life form.


So let me get this straight...and tell me if this sounds just a little bit hypocritcal.

You are all about protecting ALL life...sentient or not. EXCEPT a human fetus


You keep accusing me of being all over the place and not being consistent...but this seems like the biggest hypocritical statment in the entire thread.

You are right...I am only concerned about Human life...my position is consistent.


GREAT! If only that was all that mattered to you, but judging by your below comments, you're not being honest about that.


You are right...being free to openly express my opinions also matters to me. I guess you got me.



Well, I'm sure those women really care what some anonymous dude on the internet thinks about them.


It's irrelevant if they care or not...it is me expressing my opinion...I don't really care what they think of it. The fact that people respond to me when I express my opinion though, is a very strong indicator that they do care.



Nope. If judging others anonymously on the internet makes you feel better, that's what it's here for. You're most likely a quiet, reserved little fella offline, so if this is how you vent life's frustrations, vent away.


Look...another assumption and strawman...you should really look into fixing this little logical flaw in your mindset.

I speak my mind in the real world just as I do here...I've told females to their face, whom I would of considered friends, my disgust of abortion after they have basically bragged about getting on. Needless to say...they didn't like my freedom to express my opinion. You see...most people only like freedom of opinions if they agree with that opinion.

Keep making your assumptions, accusations, and strawmen....don't worry about being illogical...because that seems to be the thinking philosophy you have chosen. Maybe you should look into some formal training in logic...I think you would benefit greatly.



edit on 25-2-2011 by MindSpin because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
You are all about protecting ALL life...sentient or not. EXCEPT a human fetus


Um, no. Never said that, at all. I eat lots of meat, salad, etc. Circle of life. I am for protecting any life from being killed for sport, pleasure, or just for the sake of being killed. But a mass of developing cells in a woman's womb is way down at the bottom of my list of concerns, it's a medical and personal issue for that woman. Again, I'm not in favor of late term abortions as a matter of choice. But, there are plenty of fully developed, already born humans, and animals that are killed everyday for no good reason. Maybe you should focus your energy on that.



I speak my mind in the real world just as I do here...I've told females to their face, whom I would of considered friends, my disgust of abortion after they have basically bragged about getting on. Needless to say...they didn't like my freedom to express my opinion. You see...most people only like freedom of opinions if they agree with that opinion.


Well, I'm sure you felt very powerful after telling females to their face of your disgust for them. I've never once met somebody who bragged about getting an abortion, but whatever.



Keep making your assumptions, accusations, and strawmen....don't worry about being illogical...because that seems to be the thinking philosophy you have chosen. Maybe you should look into some formal training in logic...I think you would benefit greatly.


Okay Spock. Live long, and prosper.
edit on 25-2-2011 by 27jd because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
You are all about protecting ALL life...sentient or not. EXCEPT a human fetus


You keep accusing me of being all over the place and not being consistent...but this seems like the biggest hypocritical statment in the entire thread.


I know many people who would call you evil and barbaric for distrubing a Robin's nest with eggs in it, who have absolutely no problem with a woman killing her unborn, regardless of the reason.

They sincerely believe this makes perfect sense.
edit on 25-2-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by 27jd
 



Um, no. Never said that, at all. I eat lots of meat, salad, etc. Circle of life. I am for protecting any life from being killed for sport, pleasure, or just for the sake of being killed.


Well...it kind of sounded like that was what you were saying...here is your quote.

"But, to you, only human life deserves protecting. I don't see it that way, we all live and die on this planet together"

Maybe you should more clearly articulate your thoughts as to not convey ideas that you don't mean...just a thought.


But a mass of developing cells in a woman's womb is way down at the bottom of my list of concerns, it's a medical and personal issue for that woman. Again, I'm not in favor of late term abortions as a matter of choice. But, there are plenty of fully developed, already born humans, and animals that are killed everyday for no good reason. Maybe you should focus your energy on that.


Well, since this is a thread about abortion...I think I will focus on the topic.

It's sad that you would discriminate a very very young human life...that is just sad.


Well, I'm sure you felt very powerful after telling females to their face of your disgust for them. I've never once met somebody who bragged about getting an abortion, but whatever.


It was in the sense of "Oh well...if I get pregnant it's no big deal...happened before and it is easy to take care of".

I feel powerful whenever I am able to express my opinions...it's a lovely freedom we have...you should embrace it rather than trying to supress it.


Okay Spock. Live long, and prosper.


Oh I get it...logic is bad



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
It's sad that you would discriminate a very very young human life...that is just sad.


I wouldn't. I don't have a womb, it's not up to me to discriminate or not. I've already stated long back that, if it were up to me, there would be a way to extract the embryo, and grow it elsewhere. But, at this point that is not possible. Until then, women have the right to decide what goes down in their bodies. There's no way to stop it, abortions have been performed all throughout our history, outlawing it would only drive it underground and probably make it even easier to get done.



I feel powerful whenever I am able to express my opinions...it's a lovely freedom we have...you should embrace it rather than trying to supress it.


I'm not trying to suppress your opinion. It's just wrong is all.




Oh I get it...logic is bad


Where did you get that from? It was just a little humor, pull the stick from out thy rear.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by ALadInsane
Two big oversights in the OP's post.

1) You are effectively saying women should have to give birth to children conceived via sexual assault otherwise be deemed a child killer in your rather ignorant blanket coverage of all cases. You are labelling the woman, a victim of crime, as a higher risk than her attacker. This displays a complete lack of common sense.

2) Genocide and abortion are massively different and to compare the two is an example of utter stupidity. Genocide is the systematic destruction of a specific ethnic, racial, religious or national group. In other words, a planned destruction of one particular group in society. Abortions are no such thing. By likening abortion to genocide you are saying there are forces at work to attempt to abort all pregnancies to somehow eradicate them completely. People get pregnant every day (and please don't use that in any kind of argumentative response as reproduction is necessary in order for the human race to survive so it's a pointless argument) so you would never be able to carry out an act of genocide. You are labelling all unborn babies as a group in society, being targetted specifically by another.

Do you realise how utterly ignorant and naive what you are actually saying truly is, in both instances?

You've compared two completely different things and bracketed them as the same in an attempt to ruffle feathers on here, without thinking about what you are actually saying.
edit on 23/2/11 by ALadInsane because: (no reason given)


Here's what I would add to that short list.
3) You're still a Catholic
There is no argument anymore.

On a side note...

edit on 25-2-2011 by Goal Shack because: mis-embed on video



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
reply to post by Shikamaru
 


You never attempted to engage anyone besides the OP.

I wasn't going to get in the middle of your discussion with the OP.


If you want to discuss something with me or someone else....address it to them. I've made my point very clear...if you want to refute it...feel free to do so.


You know I came back to check on my posts as usual, and I couldn't help but notice your reply. I just wanted to make it clear, that I never wanted to speak with anyone else. I never even stated that I wanted to speak with anyone else. I wanted a direct response from the OP. Since I never got one, I gave up.

I can't possibly refute anything because there's nothing to refute... You know I had a little understanding of your thinking earlier but now, I think you're just looking for a negative to compete with... sad. lol. Truth is, I don't care much about your point, because as you yourself pointed out... I was speaking to the OP... not to You.


Have a great day.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by SevenBeans
I know many people who would call you evil and barbaric for distrubing a Robin's nest with eggs in it, who have absolutely no problem with a woman killing her unborn, regardless of the reason.


If you did it just to be an a-hole, you would be evil and barbaric. Just as you would be if you got an abortion simply because it made you feel good somehow. If there was a reason you felt the nest needed to be disturbed, and it was on your property, that would be your choice to make.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
If you did it just to be an a-hole, you would be evil and barbaric. Just as you would be if you got an abortion simply because it made you feel good somehow. If there was a reason you felt the nest needed to be disturbed, and it was on your property, that would be your choice to make.


Like I said these people wouldn't care at all what the reason for the abortion was, they would have no problem with it regardless. On the other hand, no possible rationale for disturbing a Robin's nest with eggs in it would change their opinion that distrubing it was barbaric (I suppose if you were starving and that was the only food you could get they'd find it acceptable, but that's about it).

Incidentally, the unborn of many species enjoy far greater legal protections than unborn humans.
edit on 25-2-2011 by SevenBeans because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by 27jd
 



Until then, women have the right to decide what goes down in their bodies.


I agree...they have a right to decide about their OWN bodies. Problem is that abortion is affecting another human life...you have even agreed to this point.


There's no way to stop it, abortions have been performed all throughout our history, outlawing it would only drive it underground and probably make it even easier to get done.


Easier???


You're a funny guy.



I'm not trying to suppress your opinion. It's just wrong is all.


Ah...nice that you have decalred that my opinion is "wrong" without actually proving it is wrong.

You even agreed to my definition of life...after a lot of trying to dodge it...you finally agreed to it.

But I guess if YOU say I'm wrong...I must be



Where did you get that from? It was just a little humor, pull the stick from out thy rear.


Oh I see...it was just your way of deflecting...gotcha.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Shikamaru
 


Well if you don't want to partake in a discussion...I agree...you should just leave the thread.


If you want to have a discussion...feel free to address my argument.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by SevenBeans
 


Well, then I'd say they're just extremist hypocrites on the other end of the spectrum.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
Obi-Wan Kenobi



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by MindSpin
 


Whatever man. I'm done beating my head against the wall with you. We can agree to disagree, I have work to get done.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by MindSpin
 


Whatever man. I'm done beating my head against the wall with you. We can agree to disagree, I have work to get done.



Ah yes...the ever so popular dismissal and self declaration winner while running away tactic. Always satisfying.


Have a good day.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by kevinunknown
 


may i ask that since you view abortion to be murder if you would also support retroactively prosecuting anyone who got an abortion and anyone who took part in the abortion process as child murderers?


In an ideal world, yes I would.

Unfortunately however this would never work so I would have to say not, we should not retrospectively judge these murders in this work, they will however be judged in the next world I hope

Out of about the last 20 or so pages of this thread, that is the only comment that I feel warrants a response, everything else is a bunch of people repeating over and over again: what if its rape?, the mothers rights supersede the child, oh look eugenics, you know nothing you’re a man, ah your catholic and biased. And so on. All of these points and the controversial use of the word genocide has all been addressed by myself in the first 10 or so pages. I am not repeating myself just to satisfy a bunch of child killer defenders.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by MindSpin
And it appears that you agree with me that abortion stops life....YAY.


I find so many things odd about the completely incogruous argument being put forth but something else really really stands out.
The best thing about many of the pro life men on this board is how much joy they seem to get in discussing abortion.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by MindSpin
And it appears that you agree with me that abortion stops life....YAY.


I find so many things odd about the completely incogruous argument being put forth but something else really really stands out.
The best thing about many of the pro life men on this board is how much joy they seem to get in discussing abortion.



I'm trying really hard to understand what you mean by the above comment...but I am having a very hard time.

Do you not think men should have a say or opinion on the matter of abortion???


Do not confuse joy with passion.



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