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Water Freezing at 34*F....is anyone else seeing this?

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posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 10:24 AM
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People are talking about ambient temps of the object the water is supposed to be freezing on, which has merit, but it doesn't have as much influence as the humidity. I'm a golf professional and I've seen many mornings where we were frosty at 35 or 36 degrees because the humidity was only 10-15%. I've also seen it not get frosty until 28 because it had rained the night before and the humidity was up.

Also another thing that interested me is that the very coldest part of the night is the 5-10 minutes as the sun is coming up over the horizon. It causes a heat convection/flipping and the temp can drop 6-11 degrees in 10 minutes. The sun also actually pulls moisture out of the ground and in to the blades of grass, which then frosts. We can be totally un-frosty the entire night/morning but as soon as the sun starts to come up everything frosts over.




posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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Get a high quality accurate thermometer. You will find that the air in the area you are in is 32F or lower.

Weatherbug is measuring the temp in a different location than yours. The sign on the bank may not be accurate. Or it could even be getting it’s information from weatherbug. Some do.

Depending on where your are at in a city, or town, the temperature will be different. There can be 3, 6, or 10 degrees difference from one side of town to the other. And depending on elevation, the temperature will change. The cold will often settle in low areas (valleys) during the night, and they will frost while the hither up areas will not.

When a front moves through, it is often the opposite. Te hill tops will get frosted while the valleys do not.

So, get a thermometer that is accurate to 1/2 degree, and you will see that water does freeze at 32



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 12:33 PM
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Here is two thermometers that would be of trustable quality.

www.shop.certifiedmtp.com...

www.amazon.com...

I would prefer the mercury filled one over the spirit filled one myself.

They have a loop on the top, so you can hang it on a wire.

Hang it on the shady side of the house under an overhang. Locate it far enough away from the house to prevent the heat from the house wall from affecting the reading.

That will be about as accurate as you can get for a normal home situation.

If you want to go all out, then plant a 4x4 in the front yard with a two foot by two foot plank of plywood on top for shelter, and hang it under the plywood. The sun should not hit the thermometer at any time through the day.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 12:39 PM
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If your inside temp is 34, then maybe you should invest in some heating.



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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Noticed this thread and thought nothing of it last night.

Now today is a different story. It's currently 34 outside...and it's snowing. It's snowing good too, not just a drizzle or sleet. It's SNOW.

I just think that's a little odd.

A2D



posted on Feb, 23 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
Noticed this thread and thought nothing of it last night.

Now today is a different story. It's currently 34 outside...and it's snowing. It's snowing good too, not just a drizzle or sleet. It's SNOW.

I just think that's a little odd.

A2D


It's perfectly normal. The air is colder up higher. Ask any Canadian. For us, 32F is 0 celcius. The best temperature for snow is +1 or +2 celcius. Which is about 34F.
What's not normal is that it was snowing this year at -25 celcius. That's usually a little too cold.



posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by snowspirit
 


I figured that would be the case actually. But then I don't really know either because I'm not a meteorologist. However, I do imagine that if the snow was freezing at a higher altitude simply because it's colder, then it would melt as it came down through the warmer air. Is this not the case?

edit: than/then
edit on 24-2-2011 by Agree2Disagree because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by snowspirit
 

I figured that would be the case actually. But then I don't really know either because I'm not a meteorologist. However, I do imagine that if the snow was freezing at a higher altitude simply because it's colder, then it would melt as it came down through the warmer air. Is this not the case?


Sometimes. It's so close to the freezing temperature of 32F, it seems to depend on wind factors, how cold it is on whatever the snow lands on. We've seen rain come down, and hit the window and freeze solid, because sometimes it's colder closer to the ground. Don't know why, but we see it a lot. Almost like there's pockets of cold air here and there. Sometimes it seems like the snow would stick, and it melts on contact instead. At that borderline freezing temperature, we never know what to expect.

Some places stay frosty on the ground well into the end of spring, the dew temperature over night, but it doesn't seem cold enough to be that way. Last year up here, we had ground frost until June, and yet the days were warm. Overnight though..?....
Seeing the weather report this winter, and this morning too, our friends to the south are going to see more of our winter weather. This mornings weather report showed this deep freeze covering the northern most center states.

Right now the cold seems to be coming in waves, every morning is different, one will be -30 celcius, and then the next morning it'll only be -10 celcius. And then back down to -30 celcius. I hope it stops doing that as it gets warmer, or it'll be freezing the melt flooding every couple of days, which just gets messy and slippery.



posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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When you was in school, did your teachers ever do the cold/hot or light/heavy liquid stratification/settling demonstrations?


Take an aquarium and fill it with cold water. Take a glass jar and fill it with hot water and add food coloring. Put a lid on the jar and set it in the aquarium full of cold water. When you remove the lit then you can see the hot water going to the surface and spreading out. You will see the exact opposite if you have hot aquarium water and cold water in the jar.

They also had stratification experiments where you can get a stable temp inversion (hotter water on the bottom than the top.)

Or the divided tank where you have cold water on one side, hot on the other, and you remove the divider to see how the two fluid masses interact around various obstacles in the tank.

It makes it easier to visualize what is happening in the air around you when storm fronts move through, and temperature changes happen.



posted on Feb, 24 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by Komodo
 


Live in Clackamas County, Oregon, and yes, today the rain did freeze when it was warmer than 32 degrees. However, it could have been a cold blast of air, or something like that, because later on it warmed up and everything melted, at least here.

I might be closer to Mount Hood and here we can get blasts of cold air that seem to come from the east where the mountain is. The temperature reading on the news and weather sites can be higher than what it actually is outside, just my 2c.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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For those claiming that wind chill only affects living creatures...you're completely wrong and need to invest some time in to something we call "research".

The air temperature outside can be 34, and uninsulated water pipes won't freeze. Add a strong enough wind to make a wind chill temperature of 10 degrees F, and those same pipes WILL freeze.

Wind chill effect is not isolated to humans, animals, mammals or plants. It effects everything.

Research....its your friend.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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I've noticed around here that often the streets will not be frozen even when its below freezing. Part of that I think is just that the ground heats up a bit. So things off the ground will freeze quicker.



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by Agree2Disagree
 


In Britain, in Spring, it's not unusual to see snow fall with an air temp round 7c (45f)



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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Either they're dry ice seeding the clouds to bring in an ice age with the BP oil disaster shutting down the Gulf Stream, and all the horrible weather since this occurred.

Or they've really managed to pull off their ice age, and its beginning.

Their weather modification plan to destroy most of the worlds crops, kill off many, imploy Frankenstein GMO's and keep us a young slave group not living long and destroying the Tower Of Babel, the Internet.
edit on 25-2-2011 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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Wind will most definately affect the temperature of all objects, it has more to do with bring the temperature down from higher altitudes, think of how you can have a ground temperature of 34 degrees but yet an overpass freezes over. As far as the snow comment goes, guess what the temperature is cooler the higher up you go, therefore allowing it to snow when it is several degrees above freezing, think of a hail storm in 80 degree weather.



posted on Feb, 26 2011 @ 10:59 AM
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Wind chill is the increased cooling affect on warm bodies(warmer than ambient) caused by wind.

More precisely. A warm body loses heat by convection. When you add wind speed, it increases the rate at which that warm body loses heat. The wind chill factor is the equivalent calm air temperature that it would have to be to lose heat at the same rate as it loses heat in the warmer but windy condition.

Basically, if it is 25F and the wind chill is 10F then the calm air temperature that it would have to be to lose heat as fast as you do in a windy 25F is 10F.

It only affects objects that are warmer than the ambient. Once the object gets down to ambient, then wind speed doesn’t have an affect any more.

And inanimate object that is already at ambient, will not get any colder than ambient, no mater how fast the wind is blowing.

If memory serves me right, The reference hot body (human skin) temperature for wind chill calculations is around 60F

en.wikipedia.org...

If the overpass freezes over, then the air temp is below 32F. I don’t care who made your thermometer, it is wrong.

The abundance of mechanical thermometers has always been a constant irritant to me. They have poor accuracy. They have a tendency to stick, or not move until the temperature changes drastically. And they have a tendency to freeze solid at 32F. They get moisture in them, and when the temp drops below 32F, the water freezes, and the needle doesn’t move until the temp warms up above 32F.

I always stick with liquid thermometers. The alcohol type, or more preferably, the mercury type. To make sure they are calibrated, put them in a bucket of ice water. If the temp reads 32F, you are set. If it reads anything else, then break the glue loose that is holding the glass tube and recalibrate and reglue it.

edit on 26-2-2011 by Mr Tranny because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 09:16 PM
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Water freezing at 32f is at sea level. Boiling at 212f is at sea level. Higher altitude those numbers change.

Its been a long time since I've had any quick prepare processed foods, but I remember a lot of them would come with different cookings instructions for high altitudes.



posted on Mar, 4 2011 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by leemachino
 


Boiling point changed depending on altitude because the boiling point is dependent on vapor pressure.(atmospheric pressure) The lower the pressure, the lower the boiling point.

Freezing is totally different. For normal atmospheric pressures that you will find anywhere on, or around earth…14 PSIA to absolute vacuum. The freezing temp varies far less than a degree. When you get a high enough vacuum, then water will boil at a lower temperature than it melts. When it is in that state, it will change directly from a solid to a vapor. They call it sublimation. That is the state that dry ice (frozen co2) is in when it is at atmospheric pressure. The freezing temperature of CO2 is higher than the boiling point at 14PSIA. So, when you dump liquid CO2 into the open air, then it flashes into a lot of gas, and a precipitation of frozen CO2.

Yes, freezing point will change depending on pressure, but at orders of magnitude greater pressure change for the same temp change as the boiling point, and in the opposite direction.. It takes a pressure change of about 1900PSI to lower the freezing point 1F. When you increase pressure, you raise the boiling point, but you decrease the freezing point.

Dropping down to absolute vacuum only brings up the freezing point by 0.0074 degrees.

So, to lower the freezing point down to 20F would have to apply about 22,700psi.



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